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Even things that seem to work against our sons in the beginning usually end up helping them in the long run.

Case in point: one of my son's teammates, a senior, received an 8.5 PG rating and throws in the upper-80's. The coach never uses him to pitch; he just plays outfield. What originally began as a pretty significant source of frustration for him and his parents has turned out to be a huge blessing -- he was recently recruited as a pitcher by a top Texas JUCO, whose coach is absolutely thrilled that his new signee will have a fresh arm come August.

My own son, who was recruited by several colleges as a middle-infielder, is playing third base this year. The only thing we've been able to figure is that maybe he had the strongest arm in the infield and the coach needed him there. Our son has never played third base in his life and really loves the middle-infield. But we are choosing to look at things positively, realizing he's getting the chance to master a new position. And by doing so, he is increasing his chances to start somewhere in the infield when he gets to college.
Last edited by Infield08
Playing time aside, are there any legitimate reasons any of can think of for a kid wanting to transfer? Some of you seem to think that there is no good reason and that it's the parent who's unhappy 100% of the time. Suppose a kid (and the parent if you must) are ok with the playing time that he's receiving but very unhappy about a coach's methods, philosophies, on and off field demeanor (closed minded, narrow-thinking, miserable, never smiling, never joking, never lightening up at all!), in-game decisions/coaching and overall baseball knowledge? What then? Should the kid not pursue another route? What if the kid comes to a parent out of the blue and explains these things and states to you "For the first time in my life, I'm not having fun playing baseball"? What then? And before all of you jump on the "well, if he's not enjoying it anymore maybe it's time to give it up" bandwagon, all I'll say is that that has been examined and is not the issue here. I'd be interested in knowing what you all think of a situation like that.
quote:
What if the kid comes to a parent out of the blue and explains these things and states to you "For the first time in my life, I'm not having fun playing baseball"? What then? And before all of you jump on the "well, if he's not enjoying it anymore maybe it's time to give it up" bandwagon, all I'll say is that that has been examined and is not the issue here. I'd be interested in knowing what you all think of a situation like that.
There are some legitimate reasons to transfer. But do most kids take the time to really think through their situations and address the issues with the proper people?

I don't believe this generation of kids is as mentally tough as previous generations. Our generation doesn't even approach our parents. We didn't deal with depression and world war.

This generation of kids is more likely to look for a place to assign blame and move on. In many cases this generation of parents have been enablers. Some kids can't look inward, come to the realization some of the problem is their fault and take responsibility for their actions.

Then there's that ever present helicopter hovering overhead at the ready to swoop in for the rescue.
Henry-

I offered the same question and this is some of what transpired.

by thats-a-balk
College is a business, period. They are there to make money just like any other business.
If you are unhappy at your business, not enough money, you look elsewhere. If you get tired of or don't like the line of work your in, you look elsewhere.
If a student does not like the education he is receiving or school he is attending, he changes schools or drops out. No different for an athlete. If he is disappointed in his lack of playing time, he has every right to transfer (with penalty). If a player is disappointed they cut his scholly money and it cost him more money to attend this business, he has every right to transfer (with penalty).

Each person including student and athlete is different, each situation is different. To use such a wide brush in painting athletes that transfer is just wrong and closed minded.

by YoungGunDad
I will say that I still don't agree even with college kids moving all over the place if they don't like their ___________ (fill in the blank(s). Seems to me that they should learn how to investigate things more in-depth before making a decision. A lot of headaches can be eliminated if this were taught better by parents and/or mentors. Yes, things change unexpectantly. Learn to suck it up and forge on..grow up.

by thats-a-balk!
Society is full suck it up people who were told to grow up and were afraid to make changes. Let the kid (in college) make his own decision on what he wants to do.

Alot of talking out of both sides of the mouth on this site. First it's keep Daddy out of it, let the kid handle his own issues from high school on. Then it's tell the kid to suck it up, grow up. You can mentor/educate but you can't have it both ways.

I will fill in the blanks-

I will support my son moving from one college to another if he doesn't feel he is getting the education he is paying for and deserves. Better than dropping out.
I will support my son moving from one college to another if he wants more playing time than he is receiving and still has that burning desire. Better than quiting all together.
I will support my son moving from one college to another if a coaching change occurs and he no longer feels comfortable with the new staff.

I have no son in college yet, but not one of these scenarios will ever cause me to tell my son to suck it up and grow up. If other opportunities are available and it will make my son a better student, athlete and person entering society, I'm all for it.

This is not an attack on you YoungGunDad, this is just my opinion and how I feel about these issues.

by YoungGunDad
The "fill in the blank" scenario's I speak of are these kinds:

I don't like my head coach. I wanna quit the team.

I don't like my teammates. They don't like me. I'm transferring.

I should be playing every day and not riding the pine. I'm going to the D3 school close to home next semester.

Balk, if your son wants more playing time, encourage him to work harder, get to practice early/stay late, etc. etc. First sign of trouble or unhappiness and calls home you're ready to help junior quit. Is this your advise for him from now on when things get tough? Quit? Whatever happened to the theory of out working someone to EARN the spot?

The 3rd one you mention is quite hilarious. Transfer because of a coaching change because he no longer "feels comfortable"? You're kidding, right? The only reason a kid would use this excuse is because the new coach(s) aren't playing him!

I was raised in an era when "The going gets tough, the tough get going." Not "throw in the towel because I haven't the fortitude" to stick it out.

Just as you mentioned when you finished, no attack on you Balk...but how I feel about these issues.

Nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree.


by thats-a-balk!
C'mon Young, get real.

What makes you think working harder, staying late, going early etc. etc. has not already been exercised?
You know, there are just some kids who are better than others and always will be. You make it sound as though transferring is the lowest form of shame and failure known to mankind! It happens everyday, are all these kids failures?

First sign of trouble? I didn't mention anything about trouble. Unhappiness? Sure, I hope my son and I have a close enough relationship where he seeks my advice when things are not going well. Please don't put words in my mouth or assume what I would tell my son. If you want to put a spin on it and use the word quit, go ahead.

I still use the theory of working hard and earn a spot, but at some point you have to make a common sense decision and decide if you would be better off elsewhere and admit the better man or athlete won. If not, you can waste four years, probably for most, your last four years not playing much. Again, it has nothing to do with not working hard or quiting, has to do with moving on to a better situation.

And last but not least, I don't see what you find so hilarious about a coaching change transfer.
I guess just a different sense of humor than me.
Most kids who make decisions on what schools they will attend have who the coach is pretty close to the top of their list. Why in the world would an athlete attend a University if they didn't feel comfortable with the coach. I don't think they would.
So again, don't assume or use such a broad brush when you say they only reason my son or any other kid would leave because of a coaching change is their not playing.

One last thing, your era is no different than mine, "The going gets tough, the tough get going".
The towels not being thrown in, the young man is still gonna "stick it out", same work ethic, same enthusiasm, same love for the game. The only thing that will change, is the scenery.

No quitter or failure in my eyes. Just a young man who wants to fulfill a dream and enhances his chances to do so!
He HAS taken responsibility for his actions by saying to himself "I believed the **** this coach spewed at me during recruitment and I think I've made a mistake here." He doesn't blame anyone but himself for not being more probing, more curious. He acknowledges that his biggest mistake was not talking to more rank and file players before signing on. He only spoke to players hand picked by the coach to guide the recruit. So he has taken responsibility and I resent that you assume he hasn't. And I guess you mean me when you call me the "helicopter". Yes, I'm going to try and help him be happy again, so sue me. What kind of a parent would turn his back on his kid and say "Oh well, you picked the school, you deal with it." And I do have a rooting interest in this in that I'm paying the tuition here. There's no scholarship involved. So why don't you now try and answer the question as asked. Is this specific situation a legitimate case for transfer. There isn't anything my kid can do to change the situation and by the way, about 90% of his teammates feel the same helplessness.
If there is a situation that is so intolerable, then transfer is in order.

But what is intolerable? In the years I have been posting here, I know of only 2 situations from websters where there was an intolerable situation, the rest was for more playing time, finances or homesick, or not doing well in class.

The advice I can give is DO YOU HOMEWORK when it comes to finding out about coaching presonalities. They've most likely done there homework on your son, do as much as you can on your end. We made phone calls to people that we knew regarding coaches before he committed. Friends, people who have know coaches for years, parents of players. You can get that info, just look in the media guide (most addresses and numbers listed) and make a random call to speak to parents. Have your sons do homework to find out if they know anyone who knows anyone from the team. Go to a game, a few games, watch the coach in a game and how he interacts with the other coaches, umpires, dugout. Body language is easy to figure out. Read up on the coach, where he was before, who played under him, how many years, winning or losing coach, etc. With the internet you can find out just by searching a bit.

All coaches just like each one of us have their quirks, strong points and weak points. If your son played in HS or a travel team where he was one of their favorites, that's not gonna happen in college. Coaches, IMO, no matter who they are or where your go, are not out to be your players best friend.
My son is very close with his former pitching coach and always will be, but they've had their moments, even so much as little conversation for days after son got his azz chewed several times over three years. The best part was every time that happened he improved so coach said "no problem I'll get on you for every little thing as long as you listen". I am not sure my son would be where he is if not for him. He may not have understood it at the time, but he did the day he was drafted. The funny part when he told us when he got his azz kicked, we agreed with the coach! Some other parent may have found him to be too hard on their player, but my son knows now that if a train came the coach would have stood in front of him. He lives his life for his players.

I saw a coach at a game once have a hissy and I said I would never let my son play for someone like that, yet I know players who adore him. He stands up for his players, may not be what we expect, but that's just the way he is, some like him, some don't.

Your sons will learn more lessons from the tougher coaches than the easy going ones, JMO.

Mine who had a great over all college experience called several times to tell us he didn't want to play anymore, it wasn't fun. We listened, never gave advice unless asked and in a few days it was over. This is normal. What many have to understand is that as they get older, the fun game now becomes hard work, dedication and in college or beyond a business. That's why I say have your sons play for the shear joy and pleasure as youngsters for as long as they can and give them no pressure about the game. Put away the guns, the video camara, that stuff can come later on. Some may say their sons love it, but they don't know better. As they get older plenty of radar guns will be pointing at them for more important reasons than, "how hard should my 12,13,14 year old be throwing".

I consider myself at times an enabler as a parent, most are. But there comes a time when you have to know when they truely need your help and when they can figure it out for themselves. The sooner you begin the process, the easier it is for your kids to grow up and make decsions on their own, without your help. You should only be there to listen, especially when they leave the nest.

I find it ironic that parents that don't like coaches attitudes towards sons (especially after a bad game whether it be individual or team) most likely read them the riot act when they were younger about a cr*ppy game. If your kids are still young, forget about it, go have some ice cream or a burger, because channces are they are gonna get it later on from someone when expectations and stakes are higher. Smile
Last edited by TPM
quote:
Although I feel there are some very caring supportive people, they have their opinions.
Seems like a lot of the newer posters get very taken back when someone responds with something they might not want to hear.

fanofgame,

I agree with most of what you said, but there is a big difference between "something you might not want to hear" and being negative. When someone comes on here seeking advice (especially newbies) the last thing they are looking for is the negativism. Give advice, but don't make the poster regret visiting this site.
quote:
Originally posted by Henry:

What kind of a parent would turn his back on his kid and say "Oh well, you picked the school, you deal with it." And I do have a rooting interest in this in that I'm paying the tuition here. There's no scholarship involved. So why don't you now try and answer the question as asked. Is this specific situation a legitimate case for transfer. There isn't anything my kid can do to change the situation and by the way, about 90% of his teammates feel the same helplessness.


I must be a bad parent, I would have told son, you made this decision now you make the most of it.

If you are paying the tuition YOU should have helped him.

It's not usuaul for most of the team to dislike the coach at times, especially if they are having a losing season. I know on son's team when coach wasn't happy, they banned together and PLAYED like animals to win, sometimes for coach to get off their backs. That meant extra time in the cages, better conditioning, asking more questions.

A winning coach (no you don't have to win every game) is a happy coach, remember that. The team shares much responsibility as to what goes on. It's up to the team to make sure that the coach stays happy. Big Grin
Henry,
I know you are new posting here. Ya gotta take the good info with the bad, the negative with the positive.
Sift through it & see what you can use, if
anything.

You asked:
quote:
So why don't you now try and answer the question as asked. Is this specific situation a legitimate case for transfer.


Go with your gut about your own personal situation and never let a message board make/break your decision. When you come to an open forum, you need to understand that you are going to get opinions from all across the spectrum & from multiple directions. Some might hit ya right between eyes, others will be far off.
Use what helps you.


~ Best of luck ~
Last edited by shortstopmom
quote:
Originally posted by thats-a-balk!:
quote:
Although I feel there are some very caring supportive people, they have their opinions.
Seems like a lot of the newer posters get very taken back when someone responds with something they might not want to hear.

fanofgame,

I agree with most of what you said, but there is a big difference between "something you might not want to hear" and being negative. When someone comes on here seeking advice (especially newbies) the last thing they are looking for is the negativism. Give advice, but don't make the poster regret visiting this site.


TAB,
There may be some who are negative, ignore it, listen to the advice, move on and let's not highjack the thread. Wink
Last edited by TPM
quote:
What kind of a parent would turn his back on his kid and say "Oh well, you picked the school, you deal with it."


Ummm,...well, gotta admit, I am that kind of parent. If son regrets his decison at the college level and cant work through it, then son needs to figure out what he wants to do.
For what its worth, if he comes to me I am going to tell him what I have always told him: You dont solve problems by going around them. You solve problems by going through them.

quote:
unhappy about a coach's methods, philosophies, on and off field demeanor (closed minded, narrow-thinking, miserable, never smiling, never joking, never lightening up at all!), in-game decisions/coaching and overall baseball knowledge


I'm curious as to why this wasn't noticed before your son committed? Has the coach's personality changed just recently? If so, there could be legit reasons for it.

I agree with TPM's words:
quote:
Your sons will learn more lessons from the tougher coaches than the easy going ones,


I'm not sure what age your son is or what level college ball he is playing, but I do wish him good luck with his future.
Last edited by shortstopmom
ssm,
Good post, sounds like mine, you wann get together and have a cup of coffee. Big Grin

ssm sets a great example, I never heard any whinig from her and her son's path hasn't been easy!

Henry,
Some good points made here, remember we are only hearing one half of the story and not all of the details.
Henry ...

Welcome to the HSBBW. It seems like this might have been a tough thread to begin your first postings, as some of us oldtimers have pretty strong opinions about these issues ... especially if we have seen them or experienced them ourselves.

Hopefully personal feelings and/or preconceived notions don't cause those seeking advice to confuse 'something you don't want to hear' with negativism. I suspect that when we hear something we don't want to hear, we interpret it as negativism (quite often). If someone is expressing their opinion based on factors in their life (similar situation, years of experience, etc), and it differs from what you anticipated when you made your post, it is not necessarily negativism. It is (their) reality ... as they know it and have experienced it ... even if it isn't your reality. If you are treated respectfully when someone answers your question ... even if they don't agree with you or you don't like what they say ... I would hope that it should be enough and a simple "I don't happen to agree with you on this" is sufficient to get your point across.

As in many situations, IMHO, there is often a valid reason to change one's mind about a decision they have made. In this case, it is your son's decision to play baseball at a particular school, which he now regrets. It is a shame that he (and you) didn't see this in advance, but hopefully it can be remedied to everybody's satisfaction.

I agree with shortstopsmom on this (as I do on many of her very wise posts):
quote:
Go with your gut about your own personal situation and never let a message board make/break your decision. When you come to an open forum, you need to understand that you are going to get opinions from all across the spectrum & from multiple directions. Some might hit ya right between eyes, others will be far off.
Use what helps you.


PS ... TPM ... sorry if I pirated the thread further ... I will stop now

PPS ... While our son was in college, I learned that he made a special effort to get to know the coaches on a closer level ... he stopped by their offices AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK to just sit with them and chew the fat (old-timer term). They got to know him better as a person and he got to see them in a different light off the field. Some people considered it 'brown-nosing' but personally, I thought it was pretty clever. I have actually recommended this to other players and parents since then because I think it was beneficial to all ... it gave him a new perspective on the game as THEY saw it, and it gave them a new perspective on him ('cause they obviously didn't believe all the wonderful things I said about him LOL ).
Last edited by FutureBack.Mom
The problem is that today the kids do not want to "work thru" the difficulties. Ther majority are looking for the "easy" way out

I have always taught my kids to take care of business on your own, even at an early age--if it gets real "sticky" then come to me for help.

My son had both the recruiting coach and the Head Coach leave his school after three years for other positions--they, he and I are still in contact with each other and this is nearly ten years later---he made it all work, I didn't. All to his credit.
FBM,
The hijack comment was to TAB, who was getting into "negative" stuff, something I don't see in this thread. Wink

I think all advice and comments have been great!

I liked your comment about seeing it from the coaches side, that's an important point! I am not sure if players know what stuff they have to deal with on a day to day basis.

I remember the first few weeks son was into his freshman season, team was young and NOT doing well. He called us to tell us that he was on a losing team in HS and didn't want to play on a losing team in college maybe he made a wrong choice.

I remind him of that sometimes, he smiles. Smile
Last edited by TPM
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
The problem is that today the kids do not want to "work thru" the difficulties. Ther majority are looking for the "easy" way out

I have always taught my kids to take care of business on your own, even at an early age--if it gets real "sticky" then come to me for help.

My son had both the recruiting coach and the Head Coach leave his school after three years for other positions--they, he and I are still in contact with each other and this is nearly ten years later---he made it all work, I didn't. All to his credit.


Great post TR.

kinda reminds me of a quote I to use just recently about this same issue: When the going gets tough, the tough get going. It sounds like your son decided to get going and not up and quit. I'm sure he's a better young man today for it.

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