Recruiting Assessment - Odds of This Player & Where

Wow, with those numbers, you could be speaking of my son, though he is 18, in the 1.9s for POP, a little taller (6'0-6'1) and few pounds heavier (194).  He leaves next week to start his freshman year in the NAIA. He didn't commit until April of his senior year.

Like others have said before, he should feel like its a good fit. He shouldn't commit just to commit. The recruiting trip is unique to each individual, so there shouldn't be a rush to commit. Try to enjoy the ride, though it can be nerve wracking at times.  

Thanks for the background.   Think like a college coach.... 1) what does the player do really well that stands out against others defensively and offensively?  In my experience college coaches focus on plus tools that a recruit has and tools that can be quickly developed.   2) what problem does the player solve?  Is the coach looking for an offensive minded catcher who's defensive skills can be polished?   3) In this time of Covid, who is advocating for your son to college coaches....travel coach, high school coach?   

Other thoughts...I don't think you are going to find too many 5'9" catchers with 7.21 speed in D1 baseball.  Frankly, I think if he is a leader, who can hit ( I mean really freaking hit), and can increase pop time to consistent sub 2.0 then might get some legitimate looks across college baseball.   He will have to overcome his frame.   My son had the same issue as a 6'1" RHP.   Yes, he could get over 90mph when he wanted to, and had 3 pitches as a recruit but the bottom line was that he was not tall.   When we first started recruiting this "frame" thing or "projectability" pissed him off.   But it is real.   Embrace it and find the right place for him

Good luck!

Just based on those numbers, he fits into the massive pool of players who are good but don't stand out enough to draw a lot of serious attention from higher levels or better programs.  You don't elaborate much on the hit tool.  How well he hits college level pitching will be a very significant determinant.  Also, you seem to emphasize the intangibles.  Those things help a player once he is on the field but often don't do a whole lot to catch the eye of an RC at a typical recruiting event.  Most players on the field have pretty good intangibles.  Aside from that, those numbers don't fit the profile for D1.  But you say he is talking to schools across levels.  So that would indicate that he is at least working a recruiting plan.  We can guess based on the limited information in front of us but there are still far too many variables.  

Where (and if) he lands will also depend on his continued growth and development, his willingness to play at lower levels, the family's ability to pay for college, what his college major will be and how that fits with baseball, whether he maintains passion to play at the next level even if it is at lower levels, how well he continues to work a recruiting plan, etc., etc.  

Here's another thing about the odds of him playing... many here say that if a player wants to play in college, there will be a place for him.  While this is hypothetically true, it is not practically true.  There are too many opposing diametrics in place.  If he targeted the worst program at the lowest level of play, his odds increase greatly.  But how many players who are capable of playing college baseball want to or are willing to play at the lowest level?  Most are very competitive and want to play at the highest level they can.

You continue to seek definitive answers to these things.  I get it - my brain works similarly.  But the recruiting process is far from an exact science.  Especially for players with skill sets that don't particularly stand out from the very large pool of aspiring players.

Also, I forget where you are located but you don't mention NAIA.  Considering the skill set and the fact that he isn't a HA (makes a lot of D3s a reach), you may want to include that pool of colleges for consideration.  FL-KYbaseballdad says his son's numbers are same.  I don't have to tell you that there is a big difference in that he is 6' so doesn't have to fight the "small player" battle, yet he chose NAIA as a fit. 

Good luck to him and keep us posted.

What are you calling an average student?  The average high school graduating gpa is 3.0? What is his unweighted gpa? 

Preferred mid major D1 pop time is consistently below 2.0. D2 is 2.0/2.1. D3 is consistently 2.1 or better.

But, is the goal to warm up pitchers between innings and be the backup, or play? How is his hitting? Does he consistency drive the ball? What level of travel pitching is he consistently facing?

There’s crossover in college classification. If MAAC teams (D1) played a series of games against the Sunshine State Conference teams (D2) I believe it would be very one sided in favor of the Sunshine State Conference. I know a kid playing, err sitting in the MAAC I saw him as a quality D3 prospect in high school. But he’s on the team. I was shocked he walked on and made it. He was the first infielder off the bench freshman year and got about 60 AB’s. He Mendoza’ed. Soph year he was further down the depth chart.

Keep an eye on school’s commit lists. If your son receives an offer how many catchers were offered before him. 

By what point in time - given the current situation in college baseball - should this player be verbally committed?

When he gets the right offer.

Note to readers: I referred the MAAC since it’s in his area.

Thanks to all for the feedback so far. It's appreciated. I will try and answer the questions. Some immediate information:

He's 5-9 but we're hoping he's not done growing. He just finished sophomore year and still really doesn't shave yet except for a few stray hairs on his chin. So, he's not done with puberty yet. He was late to grow in the 8th grade also. So, maybe he can grow another 2 inches junior year? We see some kids sprout that year.

As far as hitting, he's extremely patient and has a lot of power. He's not the kid who routinely goes 10 for 15 in a 5 game tournament with 6 doubles. More likely, if he gets 15 PA in a tournament then he's walking 6 times, striking out 4 times and hitting a home run, a double and a single. In games, his homers usually are around 340 to 370 feet. He's reached 400 feet in BP only.

If you want to see the power, send me a PM and I can send you a link of his latest HR hit this week.

Profile seems very similar to my son's HS teammate (2020).  All County as a junior...Kid got some interest from New England HA D3s, but wasn't an academic fit.  Is going to a D2 in the northeast where he figures to challenge for playing time right away.

As far as the student side, his GPA is a 3.5 out of 4. He does well in the classes that he's taking. But, there's no honors level courses, AP courses, or things like that in his future. He's a bright kid but falls into the standard/average coursework. I have a high academic kid and I see that in action. He's not at the academic level of his sibling. He's yet to take the PSAT or SAT. But, I don't think he's score there is going to be high enough to help on the recruiting side.

As far as targets, he knows he's not P5 or upper level D1. He would love to go mid-major D1. But he knows that might be a challenge because we don't really have that in our state. Most of our D1s are more towards the bottom of the RPI rankings, etc. (Not all but most.)

Basically, he wants to keep playing after HS and be part of a good baseball program at a school where he feels comfortable and has his area of interest as a major. He's not ruling out any level.  He loves to train - so, that's part of it too. He wants to be at a school with an upper level training facility to lift, etc.  He's the kid who would train 4 hours a day, everyday, if he had the access.

As far as in state and out of state, that's mostly me talking. He would love to go play in the southeast. But, I know - and have shared with him- that most schools roster kids from in state because that's who can afford to go there. Scholarships are not favorable for baseball players. Too many kids and not enough scholarships.

Don’t get scared off by the sticker price of college. To start find out the average  financial aid of colleges of interest.

As for the 6 walks in 15 sample AB’s ... Start hacking away at showcases and exposure tournaments. He can’t walk his way to the next level. I’m guessing if a 15 AB sample is 3-9 with 6 walks and 4 K’s he’s taking too many pitches. My son was a very patient lead off or two hitter until 17u (post soph summer) and junior year of high school. His coaches started harassing him to be aggressive and drive the ball rather than work pitchers. 

It’s good he’s drawn some D1 attention. But you have to discern if they’re tiring kicking him as C list insurance or are they serious. As a soph last year they’re probably interested enough to see how he progresses into next year. 

Did he start HS Varsity as a Sophomore, albeit in an abbreviated season?   If not, what level of college is the starter looking at?

It'd be easier to tell if there is a oe video of him hitting and throwing  

I think it all starts with what you and your son find most important.  From reading everything you wrote above it sounds like playing ball at a Mid-Major D1 is the stretch goal.  List the school out, identify the schools you would most want your son to attend educationally or baseball wise and start reaching out with emails and videos.  You have time and D3's are not looking for 2022 for another 11 months plus so you don't have to think about that quite yet.    You / your son will be your own best advocate unless he's on a travel program with a great track record of placing kids and a head of the program with an extensive Rolodex.   I say go for what you want now and then adjust strategy as details emerge or don't emerge.   The time is now.

@LeftyDadP9 posted:

Did he start HS Varsity as a Sophomore, albeit in an abbreviated season?   If not, what level of college is the starter looking at?

He was actually the starter on varsity last year as a freshman and led the team in HR and On-Base. Very big accomplishment but also partly related to the school situation. He may or not have made varsity with a powerhouse HS program as a freshman.

@RJM posted:

Don’t get scared off by the sticker price of college. To start find out the average  financial aid of colleges of interest.

As for the 6 walks in 15 sample AB’s ... Start hacking away at showcases and exposure tournaments. He can’t walk his way to the next level. I’m guessing if a 15 AB sample is 3-9 with 6 walks and 4 K’s he’s taking too many pitches. My son was a very patient lead off or two hitter until 17u (post soph summer) and junior year of high school. His coaches started harassing him to be aggressive and drive the ball rather than work pitchers. 

It’s good he’s drawn some D1 attention. But you have to discern if they’re tiring kicking him as C list insurance or are they serious. As a soph last year they’re probably interested enough to see how he progresses into next year. 

I've talked to him about expanding the zone. But he's very locked in with it. He will go deep on counts all the time. He's frequently hitting 3-2. At the end of the day, he's the player and has to make his own decisions. Personally, I hate 2 strike situations. I think that is a terrible place to hit from...but he doesn't mind it. The homer that he hit 2 games ago was on a 3-2 pitch.

@edcoach posted:

It'd be easier to tell if there is a oe video of him hitting and throwing  

send me a PM and I will share video 

LOTS of great advice is just about every post in this thread.  Reread it all and then reread it again.  If you can, get your son to read it as well.  Will likely mean a lot more to him reading it than you summarizing it for him.

I think VERY few kids are presented with a neatly laid out buffet of offers (or anything close to that), but I often think that's how many kids think it will be.  "Here is are all my offers.  Now I just need to pick the best one."  It doesn't work that way.  Especially in the Covid era, when the offers come and when they need to be accepted/declined by will largely determine which offer is "best."  I am not a paranoid person nor do I think the sky is falling, but there are a BUNCH of things happening right now* that support the notion that recruiting won't be anywhere close to "normal" for 2022s.  My son is a 2021 and recently jumped on a good JUCO offer even though D1 is the goal.  I am stupid grateful he committed and where he landed.  I think there are a TON of uncommitted 2021s who are about be gobsmacked in the next 2-3 months.  If my son were a 2022, I'd conduct my recruiting efforts right now under the premise that high school baseball won't be played in the spring.  If it does, great.  But plan as though it won't right now.  My advice to uncommitted 2021s is to accept NOW/yesterday.  For 2022s, mark a date by which you think you want to be committed by and then commit 2-4 months BEFORE that date if you can.  Is that paranoid?  Silly?  Possibly.  But if the goal truly is to play college ball, I think it's smarter than waiting and gambling.

* - even if college football happens this fall and/or spring, it is not going to generate anywhere near the revenue it needs to help support baseball programs in a normal fashion.  UConn just axed their football season.  The NFL is being eroded more each day due to opt outs.  MLB is hanging on a by a thread as well as other sports.  The number of Covid seniors coming back to play college baseball is far larger than seemed logical.  If college baseball is messed with/truncated next spring at all, the NCAA is likely going to grant another year of eligibility to everyone.  I just don't see anything other than "hope" right now that argues things will be back to normal anytime soon.  Not even close to normal.  "Settling" might not look anything like settling in just a few months.  Just my 2 cents. 

Danj - I agree that 2021, 2022 and 2023 are going to be different than the recruiting experience in the past. Between the NCAA giving kids another year, baseball cutting the draft and the recruiting scene shifting to video, streaming and referrals, kids better be ready to move sooner and quicker than in the past and be open to all options.

I believe getting to D1 ball is going to be harder than ever the next couple of years. Unless a kid has pro prospects find a place to get a good education and have a quality baseball experience.

After four years of college baseball/softball when asked about my kids it’s about their life, not baseball. Set yourself up for a good life with a good education. Enjoy playing ball. If some one asks if they played I respond, yes. I don’t mention level (D1) unless asked. They played ball.

Always be looking forward. No one should want their high school/college sports to be their peak in life. It’s not until you’re fifty you look in the mirror and think, “This is who I am.”

Without seeing the player in all honesty it’s next to impossible to say. To me in this day those numbers indicate  D3 to me. Possibly D2 but that depends on some visual stuff. For me one of the most important things you heard here is “you can’t “walk” your way onto a college program. So RJM is spot on there. Again not a knock but just looking at the landscape. Had a C 2 years ago, 1.9 in game pop, average receiving skills, hittter very much like you describe, similar size , 3 year Varsity starter on a state champion team and flirted with D1 but ended up at a D2, transferred and is now looking at pitching at a D3. It’s a crowded landscape.

@DanJ posted:

LOTS of great advice is just about every post in this thread.  Reread it all and then reread it again.  If you can, get your son to read it as well.  Will likely mean a lot more to him reading it than you summarizing it for him.

I think VERY few kids are presented with a neatly laid out buffet of offers (or anything close to that), but I often think that's how many kids think it will be.  "Here is are all my offers.  Now I just need to pick the best one."  It doesn't work that way.  Especially in the Covid era, when the offers come and when they need to be accepted/declined by will largely determine which offer is "best."  I am not a paranoid person nor do I think the sky is falling, but there are a BUNCH of things happening right now* that support the notion that recruiting won't be anywhere close to "normal" for 2022s.  My son is a 2021 and recently jumped on a good JUCO offer even though D1 is the goal.  I am stupid grateful he committed and where he landed.  I think there are a TON of uncommitted 2021s who are about be gobsmacked in the next 2-3 months.  If my son were a 2022, I'd conduct my recruiting efforts right now under the premise that high school baseball won't be played in the spring.  If it does, great.  But plan as though it won't right now.  My advice to uncommitted 2021s is to accept NOW/yesterday.  For 2022s, mark a date by which you think you want to be committed by and then commit 2-4 months BEFORE that date if you can.  Is that paranoid?  Silly?  Possibly.  But if the goal truly is to play college ball, I think it's smarter than waiting and gambling.

* - even if college football happens this fall and/or spring, it is not going to generate anywhere near the revenue it needs to help support baseball programs in a normal fashion.  UConn just axed their football season.  The NFL is being eroded more each day due to opt outs.  MLB is hanging on a by a thread as well as other sports.  The number of Covid seniors coming back to play college baseball is far larger than seemed logical.  If college baseball is messed with/truncated next spring at all, the NCAA is likely going to grant another year of eligibility to everyone.  I just don't see anything other than "hope" right now that argues things will be back to normal anytime soon.  Not even close to normal.  "Settling" might not look anything like settling in just a few months.  Just my 2 cents. 

Danj I sent you a pm

Franny,

Has your kid written to schools of interests filling out their questionnaires? Is he prepping for the SAT? Does he want to go to a small or large Uni?

Also,

Is he happy with his travel program? Are they helping with recruitment? 

What I'm going to say next isn't a knock on your son or his abilities, just pointing out a few areas. 

Height is not on his side, especially for a catcher. That being said, you can't control that so I wouldn't stress about it too much, he's also only 16, things can change. His 60 is fine, don't let anybody tell you otherwise. He's fast, but he doesn't fly. He's a catcher and doesn't need to, he needs to be a plus defender who can hit. 

Pop needs to get down. 2.1 in a showcase means 2.5 in a game. That's too slow for the D1 level. Same for the arm velo. It can be sub 80, but you have to be lighting behind the plate to make up for it. 

Exit velo is tough to measure off BP. Should be done off a tee as the pitched ball will add more velocity, but IMO this is one of the most useless metrics out there. 

You said he's a high level defensive player. That means it comes down to his bat. To play D1, you have to show you can hit 85+ with ease and prove that you can have quality at bats against the elite 90+ arms with three pitches. That is really what separates D1 guys from non D1 guys. You can take two good hitters and watch them smoke the ball all HS season and half the travel season, but if one doesn't show up against the kids throwing 87 and the other is making hard contact and loud outs, he is the superior hitter regardless of exit velo, size, etc. 

This is part of the reason it is so hard to recruit position players that aren't playing on the national travel circuit, the odds of going to one of their games and seeing them face a halfway decent pitcher are very slim. Kid goes 4-4 with 4XBH, it is because he's an elite hitter or because the pitcher is throwing 81 with no curve? Parents see their kids do well and wonder why nothing is happening. Playing quality competition is just as important as playing well against the average Joes. 

I would say he's not somebody coaches are going to or need to jump on right now (unless he crushes high 80s pitching) and would probably be better served working on things and getting ready for next summer, which is when the majority of kids are recruited. Not to rain on the parade, but coaches recruit one catcher every year or two. The juco market is going to be saturated with catchers for the next few years. I would target schools at all levels and see who is interested. Where is travel coach in all this? 

D3.

And the D3 experience can be fantastic!

@2022NYC posted:

Franny,

Has your kid written to schools of interests filling out their questionnaires? Is he prepping for the SAT? Does he want to go to a small or large Uni?

 

Yes. No and smaller rather than large.

@2022NYC posted:

Also,

Is he happy with his travel program? Are they helping with recruitment? 

Very much yes on both questions.

@Francis7 posted:

Very much yes on both questions.

Cool.  So, then, the obvious next question... where does the travel team see him pegged?

@PABaseball posted:

What I'm going to say next isn't a knock on your son or his abilities, just pointing out a few areas. 

Height is not on his side, especially for a catcher. That being said, you can't control that so I wouldn't stress about it too much, he's also only 16, things can change. His 60 is fine, don't let anybody tell you otherwise. He's fast, but he doesn't fly. He's a catcher and doesn't need to, he needs to be a plus defender who can hit. 

Pop needs to get down. 2.1 in a showcase means 2.5 in a game. That's too slow for the D1 level. Same for the arm velo. It can be sub 80, but you have to be lighting behind the plate to make up for it. 

Exit velo is tough to measure off BP. Should be done off a tee as the pitched ball will add more velocity, but IMO this is one of the most useless metrics out there. 

You said he's a high level defensive player. That means it comes down to his bat. To play D1, you have to show you can hit 85+ with ease and prove that you can have quality at bats against the elite 90+ arms with three pitches. That is really what separates D1 guys from non D1 guys. You can take two good hitters and watch them smoke the ball all HS season and half the travel season, but if one doesn't show up against the kids throwing 87 and the other is making hard contact and loud outs, he is the superior hitter regardless of exit velo, size, etc. 

This is part of the reason it is so hard to recruit position players that aren't playing on the national travel circuit, the odds of going to one of their games and seeing them face a halfway decent pitcher are very slim. Kid goes 4-4 with 4XBH, it is because he's an elite hitter or because the pitcher is throwing 81 with no curve? Parents see their kids do well and wonder why nothing is happening. Playing quality competition is just as important as playing well against the average Joes. 

I would say he's not somebody coaches are going to or need to jump on right now (unless he crushes high 80s pitching) and would probably be better served working on things and getting ready for next summer, which is when the majority of kids are recruited. Not to rain on the parade, but coaches recruit one catcher every year or two. The juco market is going to be saturated with catchers for the next few years. I would target schools at all levels and see who is interested. Where is travel coach in all this? 

Thanks PA. Facing velo is not an issue. He's faced kids in the upper 80s and low 90s at times and not been over matched.

His travel coach is new to us this year. He's excellent and well networked. That's why he's playing for him now. His coach thinks he can go mid level D1 based on his recieving and blocking skills alone. But the travel coach also says not to discount D2 or a strong D3 as well. 

At the end of the day, knowing my son, it's going to be a school that he likes, first and foremost, and then one with a good baseball program, second, when targeting schools - regardless of Division. Training facility will be a factor too. He loves to lift and will want somewhere that's going to have a good weight program and facility.

Your son sounds a lot like 2 of the 3 catchers my son had during his time at a mid-major.  One was 5'7, maybe 160.....one was 5'10, 190 and the other was 6'5....but ended up as an OF.  If he's already getting some D1 attention, there's probably a pretty good chance he can play D1 somewhere.  As was mentioned.....he probably has to start swinging more.  Coaches don't want 5'9, 190 pound guys who aren't all that fast to be getting walked and clogging up the basepaths.  6 walks in a weekend with 15 plate appearances won't get anyone's attention.  They'd rather see 6 line drive outs to 3B.  He won't be asked to get walked in college.....probably oughta try to get that mentality out of the way as soon as he can

@Buckeye 2015 posted:

Your son sounds a lot like 2 of the 3 catchers my son had during his time at a mid-major.  One was 5'7, maybe 160.....one was 5'10, 190 and the other was 6'5....but ended up as an OF.  If he's already getting some D1 attention, there's probably a pretty good chance he can play D1 somewhere.  As was mentioned.....he probably has to start swinging more.  Coaches don't want 5'9, 190 pound guys who aren't all that fast to be getting walked and clogging up the basepaths.  6 walks in a weekend with 15 plate appearances won't get anyone's attention.  They'd rather see 6 line drive outs to 3B.  He won't be asked to get walked in college.....probably oughta try to get that mentality out of the way as soon as he can

Thx. I also think it's the pitching. If they throw more strikes then he would be hitting more and walking less.

@Francis7 posted:

Thx. I also think it's the pitching. If they throw more strikes then he would be hitting more and walking less.

If pitchers aren’t throwing strikes what’s the level of competition? If he wants to play D1 he should be facing potential D1 pitching. Does his travel team have mostly D1 prospects college coaches would come watch?

If his travel coach is connected he has nothing to worry about. I would assume your son made his target list. The coach reviewed it and thumbed up or thumbed down the choices and contacted the thumbs up choices. Now your son just has to deliver in front of those teams. It’s much easier to be presold than discovered. 

Both my kids were presold. However, my daughter (softball) chose a program that discovered her. When she made her list based on softball and a specific major she wasn’t sure she could play there. She had one weekend where she may have been the best player in the tournament. She played over her head. But, at 5’10” she also looked like a ball player. She had to follow up the discovery with another competent weekend in their presence.

Here’s the thing about playing above your normal abilities and selecting the program. She was a fourth outfielder for four years. But she played enough to be happy. It was her top choice for her major.

where does he hit in the lineup? where is his power alley?

Is he walking on pitches "high"; "low"; inside; outside?

Can he read the "on deck" hitter?

Can he read the base runner?

Bob

@Buckeye 2015 posted:

....he probably has to start swinging more.  Coaches don't want 5'9, 190 pound guys who aren't all that fast to be getting walked and clogging up the basepaths.  6 walks in a weekend with 15 plate appearances won't get anyone's attention.  They'd rather see 6 line drive outs to 3B.  He won't be asked to get walked in college.....probably oughta try to get that mentality out of the way as soon as he can

This was one of the biggest adjustment my kid had to make. He is now more aggressive and really attacking the outside pitch with less than 2 strikes rather than taking it since he is a lefty and sees a lot ofRH pitching. It has caused him to hit  some oppo fly balls outs to LF but the people he want to impress need to hear the crack of the bat than see him trotting to first. 

Francis, nobody on this board (or anyone else that hasn’t seen your son play in person more than once) can accurately predict your son’s future for you.  If college coaches are talking to him that should be your guide. The marketplace dictates where players fit, not the other way around. There isn’t really anything that anyone can do to accelerate the process. At some point your son will have impressed a school enough to generate an offer - or he won’t. It sounds like he probably will but there is very little you can to to determine who that is - other than doing what you can to help your son improve and getting him to venues that will get him exposed to the right schools. If your son knows what he wants to do for a living (and the degree he needs to do that) I would focus on D3, D2 & NAIA schools that offer the right major. Then I would get him to showcases and camps where those schools attend - whenever that’s again possible. Start with the end (degree) and work backwards. Use this down time to create a plan based on an academic goal. If your son ends up being a better player than expected that’s a good problem to have. 

@2022NYC posted:

This was one of the biggest adjustment my kid had to make. He is now more aggressive and really attacking the outside pitch with less than 2 strikes rather than taking it since he is a lefty and sees a lot ofRH pitching. It has caused him to hit  some oppo fly balls outs to LF but the people he want to impress need to hear the crack of the bat than see him trotting to first. 

It drove me crazy watching my son take outside pitches waiting for one he could pull and drive. Then, when he had two strikes he would either foul off pitches until he walked, ground out to second or hit a weak fly to right. When his coach changed his hitting approach to drive that outside pitch to left center  his game improved immensely.

I had to pay for my son to listen to what I had been telling him for two years. I used to try to piss him off by telling him I would place the entire defense on the right side of the field except the 3b to protect against the bunt.

I am shocked by you and other dads who elected to coach their teen aged kids. I too am forking out some serious coin to get the same message to my knucklehead kid.

@2022NYC posted:

I am shocked by you and other dads who elected to coach their teen aged kids. I too am forking out some serious coin to get the same message to my knucklehead kid.

I also coached my kids, similar to RJM. I had no intention of ever coaching. But I got involved early on as I realized quickly that the guys trying to coach my kids had no idea what they were doing. 

@2022NYC posted:

I am shocked by you and other dads who elected to coach their teen aged kids. I too am forking out some serious coin to get the same message to my knucklehead kid.

In overall personality I would have through my daughter would have been the tough one to coach. She was intense. I coached her through 18u Gold. She never tuned me out. I was an assistant through post junior summer. 

When my son was fifteen playing 16u I knew it was over one day in the dugout. He was tuning me out. Maybe it was just the cool thing to do at his age. A few years later he told me it bothered him his friends/teammates thought I was the cool dad. Walking away after a game I told him he needed someone new to kick his rear to the next level. A 17u coach was standing there. He asked us to come visit the facility. We didn’t chose that team. But the direction was set. I could teach and coach. But, I didn’t have the contacts these 17u programs have. And I had lost his attention.

@adbono posted:

Francis, nobody on this board (or anyone else that hasn’t seen your son play in person more than once) can accurately predict your son’s future for you.  If college coaches are talking to him that should be your guide. The marketplace dictates where players fit, not the other way around. There isn’t really anything that anyone can do to accelerate the process. At some point your son will have impressed a school enough to generate an offer - or he won’t. It sounds like he probably will but there is very little you can to to determine who that is - other than doing what you can to help your son improve and getting him to venues that will get him exposed to the right schools. If your son knows what he wants to do for a living (and the degree he needs to do that) I would focus on D3, D2 & NAIA schools that offer the right major. Then I would get him to showcases and camps where those schools attend - whenever that’s again possible. Start with the end (degree) and work backwards. Use this down time to create a plan based on an academic goal. If your son ends up being a better player than expected that’s a good problem to have. 

Thanks. He's been talking to coaches. Basically, it's between him and them - and I'm out of it until I need to be because they want him to come in or something, or fill out an early financial aid form, etc.

On the D1 side, it's been 3 schools. One said in January that he was in their rotation of prospects for his position for 22s. But then a few months later a local committed there. So, that's probably out. Another said that they have been tracking him for months and he was their #1 2022 C. But, their school doesn't offer his major - so, that died. The other one is a local D1 and still in play. He talks to their recruiting coach frequently - it's an ongoing conversation. They talk almost once a week for a while now.

There is another D2 who is very interested and wants him to come in for a visit in the fall as soon as allowed per the pandemic.

That is what I know based on what he's sharing. He wants to keep things close to his chest until I need to be involved since, per him, "I know you're going to get too excited about anything I tell you."

That's fine. I've offered to help and made it clear to him "It's your choice. But, remember, if you shut me out, then you can't say 'Why didn't you help me?' when it doesn't work out the way you wanted."

Sometimes there is no understanding the workings of the mind of a teenager 

@adbono posted:

I also coached my kids, similar to RJM. I had no intention of ever coaching. But I got involved early on as I realized quickly that the guys trying to coach my kids had no idea what they were doing. 

Same thing. I started coaching in kiddie ball sports. At 13u I put together a coaching team of four former college (two pro) players. Their kids were players. I took the kids through 16u and handed them off to programs with college contacts.

@Francis7 posted:

Thanks. He's been talking to coaches. Basically, it's between him and them - and I'm out of it until I need to be because they want him to come in or something, or fill out an early financial aid form, etc.

On the D1 side, it's been 3 schools. One said in January that he was in their rotation of prospects for his position for 22s. But then a few months later a local committed there. So, that's probably out. Another said that they have been tracking him for months and he was their #1 2022 C. But, their school doesn't offer his major - so, that died. The other one is a local D1 and still in play. He talks to their recruiting coach frequently - it's an ongoing conversation. They talk almost once a week for a while now.

There is another D2 who is very interested and wants him to come in for a visit in the fall as soon as allowed per the pandemic.

That is what I know based on what he's sharing. He wants to keep things close to his chest until I need to be involved since, per him, "I know you're going to get too excited about anything I tell you."

That's fine. I've offered to help and made it clear to him "It's your choice. But, remember, if you shut me out, then you can't say 'Why didn't you help me?' when it doesn't work out the way you wanted."

I was involved every step of the way with my kids. I didn’t get involved in the conversations. But I coached my kids on what to say and what not to say. I never wrote any emails. But I told them what should be in them.

Coaches are professional recruiters. Kids aren’t professional recruits. Kids are out experienced and outgunned. They need help. If nothing else they need the interpretation and common sense an adult brings to the process. I would have never let my kids go it alone against an adult. 

@Francis7 posted:

Another said that they have been tracking him for months and he was their #1 2022 C. But, their school doesn't offer his major - so, that died. The other one is a local D1 and still in play. 

What major? I am now curious.  I was under the impression you were looking mid major D1 and best baseball opportunity but your son has already zero'd in on a major which limits the opportunity pool and if he does end up D3 can really restrict it... 

@adbono posted:

Sometimes there is no understanding the workings of the mind of a teenager 

Sometimes?

@RJM posted:

I was involved every step of the way with my kids. I didn’t get involved in the conversations. But I coached my kids on what to say and what not to say. I never wrote any emails. But I told them what should be in them.

Coaches are professional recruiters. Kids aren’t professional recruits. Kids are out experienced and outgunned. They need help. If nothing else they need the interpretation and common sense an adult brings to the process. I would have never let my kids go it alone against an adult. 

I've heard some of his conversations from a distance. (It's a small house.) And he's handling them well. He also runs everything by his trusted stable of former and current coaches as well as with some current D1 players that he knows well from training with them. His network is actually very impressive that way. There's probably 10 coaches of travel teams and programs that he's tight with  - and they have all been very generous with their time and counsel.

Then he is getting plenty of guidance and advice from peers and mentors...just make sure the car gas tank is full for all the visits

Sounds like your son and his support group, including you, have the situation as well in hand as could be expected and that everything is moving along nicely.  The only problem, and the reason for the post, is that the suspense is killing you.

That is understandable. Hang in there!

@JCG posted:

Sounds like your son and his support group, including you, have the situation as well in hand as could be expected and that everything is moving along nicely.  The only problem, and the reason for the post, is that the suspense is killing you.

That is understandable. Hang in there!

LOL. I just don't want him to miss an opportunity for some reason and/or waste his time shooting for something that's not reasonable. In addition, the new landscape is a factor along with the uncertainty on what it means on the process.

No one waste time if they are learning from daily experiences.

you did not answer my questions. "Can your son read the bat"?

"can he read the runners feet".?

Bob

@Francis7 posted:

LOL. I just don't want him to miss an opportunity for some reason and/or waste his time shooting for something that's not reasonable. In addition, the new landscape is a factor along with the uncertainty on what it means on the process.

Ultimately the player is responsible for the end result. But if he’s getting good direction from the travel team you can stop asking where he should be directing his efforts. If you look back at these kinds of posts the advice is “What are baseball people telling him?”

From now until the offers come in it’s “Tums Time” for dad. Many of us have been through it. We all survived. If a kid wants it badly enough he makes it happen.

@Consultant posted:

No one waste time if they are learning from daily experiences.

you did not answer my questions. "Can your son read the bat"?

"can he read the runners feet".?

Bob

Not sure I understand the question? So, hard to say if he can.

@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:

What major? I am now curious.  I was under the impression you were looking mid major D1 and best baseball opportunity but your son has already zero'd in on a major which limits the opportunity pool and if he does end up D3 can really restrict it... 

He better be zeroing in on a major - as should your son and everyone else’s too. The days of getting a general degree and figuring out what you want to do later are gone - unless grad school is in the picture. The odds of playing pro ball have always been long but with the elimination of lower level minor league teams the odds just got way worse. You are way better off getting a specific degree that qualifies you for the type of job you want. Have a plan! 

Somewhat related question:

There is an out of state D1 that I think would be a perfect fit for my son. And, they seem to roster out of state kids from our state. It's the type of program and school size that checks all the boxes for my son. And, he trains with a current player there- who has reportedly told the coach about my son.

I have told my son that he should do one of their camps and he's dismissed me saying "I know already that they are not interested in me."

That's fine. But, the recruiting coach for this college following my son on Twitter and he "likes" every one of my son's tweets with a clip or something.

Is the coach just being social media polite or is my son wrong about them being interested in them?

@Francis7 posted:

Somewhat related question:

There is an out of state D1 that I think would be a perfect fit for my son. And, they seem to roster out of state kids from our state. It's the type of program and school size that checks all the boxes for my son. And, he trains with a current player there- who has reportedly told the coach about my son.

I have told my son that he should do one of their camps and he's dismissed me saying "I know already that they are not interested in me."

That's fine. But, the recruiting coach for this college following my son on Twitter and he "likes" every one of my son's tweets with a clip or something.

Is the coach just being social media polite or is my son wrong about them being interested in them?

Teenagers are wrong about a lot of things. I wouldn’t assign much value to the social media stuff but I would send him to their camp and make sure the coach knows he will be there. What do you have to lose? 

yeah, you should play the parent card with your kid on that school. It's a little time and $$, but no regrets

Francis;

your son is a catcher?   How many "tools" in his tool box?

what does his eyes see when he is catching?

Is the "on deck" hitter swinging his practice swings "up or down"?

Is the runners right foot "pointing" to second base?

College coaches desire leadership skills from their catchers.

Bob

He sees things that I don't see. But, that's become apparent by accident. What he sees on the field and what he does with it, you would have to ask him and his coach. I can say that he's locked in, knows the game and is thinking ahead. He's not a tourist out there.

@Francis7 posted:

Somewhat related question:

There is an out of state D1 that I think would be a perfect fit for my son. And, they seem to roster out of state kids from our state. It's the type of program and school size that checks all the boxes for my son. And, he trains with a current player there- who has reportedly told the coach about my son.

I have told my son that he should do one of their camps and he's dismissed me saying "I know already that they are not interested in me."

That's fine. But, the recruiting coach for this college following my son on Twitter and he "likes" every one of my son's tweets with a clip or something.

Is the coach just being social media polite or is my son wrong about them being interested in them?

Being liked on social media isn’t recruiting. Even being seen isn’t recruiting. Recruiting is when they make an offer. What if the coach decides without seeing your son he’s going to pursue another player first? If the kid is genuinely interested get in front of the coach. 

@Francis7 posted:

He sees things that I don't see. But, that's become apparent by accident. What he sees on the field and what he does with it, you would have to ask him and his coach. I can say that he's locked in, knows the game and is thinking ahead. He's not a tourist out there.

There are a lot of locked in players who don’t see the little things that make a difference. They only see the obvious.

@Francis7 posted:

Danj - I agree that 2021, 2022 and 2023 are going to be different than the recruiting experience in the past. Between the NCAA giving kids another year, baseball cutting the draft and the recruiting scene shifting to video, streaming and referrals, kids better be ready to move sooner and quicker than in the past and be open to all options.

Agree with a good deal of this.  Right now, if you were not at the top of a schools' recruiting board by last year, getting recruited for D1 is going to be nearly impossible.  Teams are either not recruiting at all due to returning upperclassmen, or cost concerns.  Many RC's were furloughed, or can't see kids in person.  So it's just not worth it for them to recruit players off of video or livestream when they don't really have to or simply don't have the funds to do so.  A tough situation will be even tougher should @DanJ 's prediction for the spring come to fruition. 

The ripple effect here is that many potential D1 players are now opting to go the D3 route.  Even some D3's have returning seniors and limited recruit classes (I'll use Tufts as one name example I am aware of).  So D1 now impossible and D3 more stringent than ever.  It's like every division just increased a notch in terms of degree of difficulty.  

In other words, if a player was on the fence about D3 v D1, I'd advise hopping off. The decision you believe to be there...may very well not be.  Consider D3 a valuable and fortunate opportunity to play, now at an even higher level given talent influx.  

Wech is spot on. This is exactly what I am seeing. I believe the vast majority of schools are taking the path of least resistance and “skipping over”  the ‘21 class.Im seeing it at all levels but a lot at the D1 level. I hope the NCAA and the dopey athlete council are proud of themselves and what they created. It’s basically a giant shit show. It’s what happens when you make an “emotional” decision too quick without using common sense.

This is also an almost exact description of where my ‘21 is. It’s maddening and he’s really having to come down and consider places we never ever thought he would. He’s , at this point, just as likely to not play at all in college as play. It’s a sad statement on the situation in general and not anything I would have ever guessed would be the situation he was in 8-10 months ago. You can only sink so far before you just say uncle and move on from baseball. There are many very talented players in his class that probably won’t find homes, and the common thing we keep hearing is “logjam” and “we don’t have any room”.

Yes, the NCAA made an idiotic ruling - and it has had a negative impact on far more players (and families) than it has helped. Add to the mix that MLB draft has been permanently contracted. Now add the fact that the virus is not disappearing and political ramifications of that have ramped up. The combination of those ingredients is a recipe for disaster for all college sports - but especially baseball. You can fight your battle however you want. Some will win but most wont. IMO now is the time to put life ahead of baseball. Make a decision that’s best for your kid’s education (and future employment) and let the baseball chips fall where they may. It may not be easy (my son had to do it) but given the circumstances it’s the prudent thing to do. 

It's a shame players lost half a D1 season. It's worse for seniors having their last shot at glory. But under normal circumstances plenty of athletes find out they won't be playing their senior year sitting in a doctor's office. That's life. The NCAA should have said, "Sorry. Sometimes life sucks. You have your degree. Move on."

@RJM posted:

It's a shame players lost half a D1 season. It's worse for seniors having their last shot at glory. But under normal circumstances plenty of athletes find out they won't be playing their senior year sitting in a doctor's office. That's life. The NCAA should have said, "Sorry. Sometimes life sucks. You have your degree. Move on."

I don't disagree with this.  The NCAA just kicked the can down the road and inadvertently gave the "life sucks, move on" to the 2021 class.  My RHP son (90 mph FB, 4.5 GPA, 33 ACT) is sitting here waiting for coaches to 'figure it out' with the guys who might be coming back...  Really?  Are they obligated to give those guys another year?  

I just told him to apply to the schools he knows he wants to graduate from and stick to that plan.  Whatever shakes from the baseball tree is just gravy.

@CaliDad posted:

I don't disagree with this.  The NCAA just kicked the can down the road and inadvertently gave the "life sucks, move on" to the 2021 class.  My RHP son (90 mph FB, 4.5 GPA, 33 ACT) is sitting here waiting for coaches to 'figure it out' with the guys who might be coming back...  Really?  Are they obligated to give those guys another year?  

I just told him to apply to the schools he knows he wants to graduate from and stick to that plan.  Whatever shakes from the baseball tree is just gravy.

Send a PM to Cabbagedad and explain your situation. He is a retired very successful and well connected HS coach in Cali. He might have an idea or two. 

@CaliDad posted:

I don't disagree with this.  The NCAA just kicked the can down the road and inadvertently gave the "life sucks, move on" to the 2021 class.  My RHP son (90 mph FB, 4.5 GPA, 33 ACT) is sitting here waiting for coaches to 'figure it out' with the guys who might be coming back...  Really?  Are they obligated to give those guys another year?  

I just told him to apply to the schools he knows he wants to graduate from and stick to that plan.  Whatever shakes from the baseball tree is just gravy.

My son missed freshman year with an injury. After playing three seasons he found out he needed a second surgery more than a redshirt senior season. He could have applied for a medical redshirt season. His attitude was after five years he would have two degrees (BA/MBA). Why hang around at 23/24 with a bunch of nineteen year olds working towards a third degree that wasn’t needed? It was time to get on with life.