Recruiting Catchers

cabbagedad posted:

There are some comments about C not being a desirable position with regard to recruiting interest.  That has not been my experience nor does it match up with prevailing train of thought in my circles.  

Of course, P is king.  Teams use many over the course of the year, it is the most impactful position and injuries happen.  After that, SS's who can hit win out because they generally have a strong defensive tool set that can be moved just about anywhere else in the infield or outfield if there is a guy or two in front of him.  After that, a catcher that can hit holds the most value.  Most college teams will split catching duties, so two C's get significant innings, particularly those levels/conferences that play weekend double headers.  And, catchers take the most beating.  So most colleges strive to be 3 deep in solid C's.  OF has three spots but that advantage is negated by the fact that so many will move their 2nd or 3rd string SS's to OF spots or they will try to hide a power bat in a corner OF position.  Yes, a true burner CF who can hit is pretty close to C's with recruiting cache.   But the order, IMO, is P, SS, C, CF and everyone else, with some exception to that true power bat, whatever position he can play.

In all the years I was around HS kids being recruited, this is the way it played out.  So, chin up, C's 

Cabbage is right, as usual. There is a shortage of good catchers at the college level. I have never seen a really good one not have options. As he said, it is the most important defensive position on the field. Most Cs would benefit from going the JuCo route unless they are an extremely high academic kid, for all the reasons stated in this thread (and countless others about freshmen position players never seeing the field at their D1 dream school) 

Lots of great comments here as usual.  I should have added this at the beginning of this thread.  My son’s travel coach is a guy who was drafted in the first round of the MLB draft out of high school as a catcher many years ago.  He peaked at Triple A in his career.  He doesn’t like or believe in the entire system of recruiting.  Naturally, his views may be influenced by how easy it came for him because he’s obviously extremely talented.  However, he keeps telling my son one consistent thing that I haven’t confirmed but is probably true.  He said if you want to play at a high D1 level in college you should go JuCo because the best programs bring catchers in from JuCo to start as juniors and seniors. He said they do this because they need catchers with game experience and catchers can get that in JuCo.   Our son has wanted to play baseball at a HA school, so this was never an option for him.  However, occasionally he’d come home after practice and try to sell us on the idea that JuCo was better for him based on his coach’s comments.  On a separate note, I would agree that logically it would seem that most good programs aren’t going to rely on a walk-on.  We just saw it happen in two cases.  Clearly, one was a very exceptional kid based on earlier info in this thread. In fact, in that particular case, the Princeton coach said that this kid even taught him a few things about framing!

BackstopMom posted:

We’ve been to a number of camps with our 2020 (HeadFirst, Showball, Stanford, Princeton among others) and we’ve made a few observations about schools recruiting catchers.  For example, at Princeton and Georgetown our 2020 was told that their starting catchers were both walk ons which seems to suggest that this isn’t uncommon.  

Walk-ons happen. But coaches do not rely on walk-ons to earn playing time or become contributors. An injury or two happen or the kid makes the team as a freshman walk-on and is ready to start by the time he's a junior senior is most likely the norm for a walk on starter. You also mentioned two schools that offer no baseball money and very little (if any) baseball money. Technically speaking, they're all walk-ons. It's much easier to do this at a school where baseball money is scarce or non existent. At a fully funded school 23-27 guys will be on scholarship with another 8-10 walk-ons. Who are usually recruited guys who just aren't receiving money or in guys who qualify for enough academic money or are in state so they don't necessarily need baseball money. Even more so at the catcher position where you need to recruit somebody. If a walk-on happens to out play them then so be it but definitely the exception. 

Just an educated guess, but at 90% of D1's, when a Walk On gets a lot of playing time due to injuries, if the Walk On isn't All Conference that year for the D1 they are bringing in a JUCO guy the next year to take that spot.

The deck is stacked against a Walk On.  We all love to point out the exceptions, because it is easy to root for that type of guy.  As a Parent though, if possible I'd prefer that my Kid has a stronger hand when sitting at the table.  

I’ll bet if the research is done most walk ones are late blooming pitchers and third string catchers. 

I know a catcher who walked on at a P5 freshman year. One of their freshman recruits arrived on campus and immediately fell on his face creating an opening. The kid caught bullpens for one season. The next year the team brought in three new catchers and released him.

PABaseball posted:

BackstopMom posted:

We’ve been to a number of camps with our 2020 (HeadFirst, Showball, Stanford, Princeton among others) and we’ve made a few observations about schools recruiting catchers.  For example, at Princeton and Georgetown our 2020 was told that their starting catchers were both walk ons which seems to suggest that this isn’t uncommon.  

Walk-ons happen. But coaches do not rely on walk-ons to earn playing time or become contributors. An injury or two happen or the kid makes the team as a freshman walk-on and is ready to start by the time he's a junior senior is most likely the norm for a walk on starter. You also mentioned two schools that offer no baseball money and very little (if any) baseball money. Technically speaking, they're all walk-ons. It's much easier to do this at a school where baseball money is scarce or non existent. At a fully funded school 23-27 guys will be on scholarship with another 8-10 walk-ons. Who are usually recruited guys who just aren't receiving money or in guys who qualify for enough academic money or are in state so they don't necessarily need baseball money. Even more so at the catcher position where you need to recruit somebody. If a walk-on happens to out play them then so be it but definitely the exception. 

"You also mentioned two schools that offer no baseball money and very little (if any) baseball money. Technically speaking, they're all walk-ons."

I was thinking this very same thing throughout this thread.  This doesn't get talked about enough here at HSBBW.  We always hear the company line that "walk-on" is a very difficult position to be in and that the chances of making a roster spot or getting playing time are very slim.  I think that's generally sound advice.  But there is a bit of a disconnect.  Many non-P5 schools don't fully fund or even fund very little to nothing in terms of allowable baseball athletic scholarship money.  So, in those instances, most of the rostered players (often including starters) may not be on athletic scholarship and are, therefore, technically walk-ons.  Could be an interesting topic on it's own as we don't seem to hear from very many of those players (or parents) here.  In any case, I do think this is a likely factor for the OP when told by those two specific schools that their current starting C's were walk-ons.

BackstopMom posted:

Lots of great comments here as usual.  I should have added this at the beginning of this thread.  My son’s travel coach is a guy who was drafted in the first round of the MLB draft out of high school as a catcher many years ago.  He peaked at Triple A in his career.  He doesn’t like or believe in the entire system of recruiting.  Naturally, his views may be influenced by how easy it came for him because he’s obviously extremely talented.  However, he keeps telling my son one consistent thing that I haven’t confirmed but is probably true.  He said if you want to play at a high D1 level in college you should go JuCo because the best programs bring catchers in from JuCo to start as juniors and seniors. He said they do this because they need catchers with game experience and catchers can get that in JuCo.   Our son has wanted to play baseball at a HA school, so this was never an option for him.  However, occasionally he’d come home after practice and try to sell us on the idea that JuCo was better for him based on his coach’s comments.  On a separate note, I would agree that logically it would seem that most good programs aren’t going to rely on a walk-on.  We just saw it happen in two cases.  Clearly, one was a very exceptional kid based on earlier info in this thread. In fact, in that particular case, the Princeton coach said that this kid even taught him a few things about framing!

There is truth to what Coach is saying , so  do the  research and you will see high level D1 catchers are coming from some top Juco programs not all but some  . I was told that the Juco catchers can be put into the program , because they really don’t have a learning curve . They already for the most call their own pitches . And have handle high Velo,

my son is already handling 90 to 95 Velo everyday this fall . 

BackstopMom posted:

.... My son’s travel coach is a guy who was drafted in the first round of the MLB draft out of high school as a catcher many years ago.  ...He doesn’t like or believe in the entire system of recruiting.  ... he keeps telling my son one consistent thing that I haven’t confirmed but is probably true.  He said if you want to play at a high D1 level in college you should go JuCo because the best programs bring catchers in from JuCo to start as juniors and seniors. ...  Our son has wanted to play baseball at a HA school, so this was never an option for him.  However, occasionally he’d come home after practice and try to sell us on the idea that JuCo was better for him based on his coach’s comments.  ...

Your son's travel coach may be a great coach and I'm sure it is very helpful to your son that he was a high level C.  But this really bothers me.

First, the bolded is a dangerous generalization.  There is a large pool of colleges that will recruit JC transfers and there is also a large pool that will not (or very rarely do).  If anything, the HA schools are more likely to be the ones that do not.

Second, you have a son that wants to play at a HA school and a coach who is repeatedly suggesting he go JuCo.  That is really not good advisement unless there is more to the story.  Be careful.  As with most coaching/teaching scenarios, there are usually many things you can take away that are very good and some things you might need to block out.  

BackstopMom posted:

We’ve been to a number of camps with our 2020 (HeadFirst, Showball, Stanford, Princeton among others) and we’ve made a few observations about schools recruiting catchers.  For example, at Princeton and Georgetown our 2020 was told that their starting catchers were both walk ons which seems to suggest that this isn’t uncommon.  After many of the showcase events, our son would tell us that all the catchers there felt like they were just there to facilitate recruiting for pitchers.  We’re just about done with the process and feel it’s going to have a very happy ending for our son, but just want to put this out there for other parents of catchers who will go through this process in the future since it can be very expensive and time consuming. For our son, all serious interest came after contacting the coach directly with a video and stats.  Any other thoughts on the best way for a catcher to be recruited?

My '22 is a catcher with similar target schools. While I'm glad to hear that it looks like your son is heading in the right direction, the rest of your post is cautionary. I'd be eager to hear how you went about it, in terms of timing especially. This is what we struggle with - when to engage so as to maximize his opportunity while not breaking the bank. Feel free to PM me. Thanks, 

OskiSD posted:

BackstopMom posted:

We’ve been to a number of camps with our 2020 (HeadFirst, Showball, Stanford, Princeton among others) and we’ve made a few observations about schools recruiting catchers.  For example, at Princeton and Georgetown our 2020 was told that their starting catchers were both walk ons which seems to suggest that this isn’t uncommon.  After many of the showcase events, our son would tell us that all the catchers there felt like they were just there to facilitate recruiting for pitchers.  We’re just about done with the process and feel it’s going to have a very happy ending for our son, but just want to put this out there for other parents of catchers who will go through this process in the future since it can be very expensive and time consuming. For our son, all serious interest came after contacting the coach directly with a video and stats.  Any other thoughts on the best way for a catcher to be recruited?

My '22 is a catcher with similar target schools. While I'm glad to hear that it looks like your son is heading in the right direction, the rest of your post is cautionary. I'd be eager to hear how you went about it, in terms of timing especially. This is what we struggle with - when to engage so as to maximize his opportunity while not breaking the bank. Feel free to PM me. Thanks, 

I would recommend attending HA showcases (preferably showcases that have HC's present) either after sophomore year in HS and again at the beginning to middle of summer after junior year if you can afford it.  If not then just focus on the beginning to middle of summer after junior year as that's when HA's are putting together their rosters.  If you have Ivy aspirations I would try to get seen after sophomore year because early commits (if you are a priority position) can probably get by with a slightly lower academic index (AI). Once you get into the summer the Ivy's have to recruit based on their needs and team AI so you may have to have a higher AI to get the one of the last couple of slots. So if their first priority is a LHP they probably will want to commit that player during the player's junior year before some other D1 program gets him.  He may have a lower AI which they are fine with because he's their #1 priority and commit. They also know he can improve his AI (retake SAT, improve GPA, etc.) but if he doesn't they can make it up by committing a player with a high AI to offset.

If you wait too long (like we did--as in this past August) the AI becomes that much more important. Of course the baseball talent and the desire for the coach to want you is also very important!

I think you can wait until after junior year for HA DIII's. Ivy, Patriot, and other like D1's I would recommend attending after sophomore year.

Thanks for that advice - consistent with our thinking.

My son has been a catcher almost exclusively since age 10. He was an All-State catcher in 2019 (junior year). He loves catching and has batted cleanup since freshman year on high school and summer teams. Our problem in recruiting was his arm. Scouts would see his throw to second and say “nope, he’s a pitcher...I want to see him pitch.” His coach would promise to let scouts see him pitch, but would make them sit through six innings of him catching first because my son wanted to be a college catcher. Then he’d pitch the last inning.

He had three D1 offers this summer....all for pitching, two very high mid-majors and one P5. They all admitted he was a very talented catcher, but they wanted the “arm” more. I never thought he’d give up catching but he’s happy with the idea of pitching. 

The whole point is that other people might see potential/skills in your kid that you may not recognize. And....this crazy recruiting stuff can take very unexpected paths. I’ll miss having my son catch! Good luck to your son! 

I was a C who converted to P, though I did both for quite a while. I liked doing both...maybe pitching a bit more, but I hated not playing on off days. There is no doubt that P's have far more opportunities to make a roster than C's, but as a parent I hate to see the arm troubles that P's seem to go through(though playing C is certainly a painful road).

Until last season, my son was also a pitcher (and a very effective one).  Unfortunately, we felt that it was too much on his arm to try to play both positions (he had a doubleheader where the coach had him play a full game at catcher followed by pitching a complete game--111 pitches)! We told him he needed to choose so he chose catcher.  That didn't sit well with the coach at first, but we had to think long term about his health.  As this process has gone on, it has crossed his mind that perhaps he should pitch again but I think we're past the point where that's a realistic possibility from a recruitment standpoint and we certainly wouldn't want him to try to keep doing both again.  Thanks for the input!

For the fortunate whose son can pitch and catch, the skill set to focus on in deciding is: can he hit?

No hit, no play, no matter the catching skills.

Very true.  My son bats cleanup on his varsity and travel team.  He's a good hitter which may be why when given the choice he decided to keep catching.