What are the pros and cons of being redshirted for other than medical reasons.
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
I've never really seen an upside, other than it might maintain a year of playing eligibility.
The extreme downside, is that in D1, you have 5 years to complete 4 seasons. If you use one year as a red shirt year, and then at some point decide to transfer, that means you have to sit another year. That uses up 2 of your 5 years. Same is true if you get hurt and can't play a season, you lost it completely if you've already red shirted a year.
It's not something to be taken lightly. I would never advise my son to take a red shirt year just because a coach thought it was a good idea. Especially now that transfers have to sit a year.
The extreme downside, is that in D1, you have 5 years to complete 4 seasons. If you use one year as a red shirt year, and then at some point decide to transfer, that means you have to sit another year. That uses up 2 of your 5 years. Same is true if you get hurt and can't play a season, you lost it completely if you've already red shirted a year.
It's not something to be taken lightly. I would never advise my son to take a red shirt year just because a coach thought it was a good idea. Especially now that transfers have to sit a year.
Redshirting without injury gives a player a year to mature and adjust. It also puts space between players and can create playing opportunities that might not otherwise exist. Very talented players tend not to redshirt simply because they are draft-eligible after three years and do not need the redshirt year since they will not be around.
For many players, it can be a very good thing.
It is true that it can hurt later if a player transfers, but I have never been a strong advocate of transfers and like the flexibility a redshirt can offer at the same school.
For many players, it can be a very good thing.
It is true that it can hurt later if a player transfers, but I have never been a strong advocate of transfers and like the flexibility a redshirt can offer at the same school.
quote:Originally posted by jemaz:
...and can create playing opportunities that might not otherwise exist.
Are you simply talking about the 5th year opportunity at the end or am I missing something?
What I am talking about is a freshman who comes in with a player ahead of him (of any year). A redshirt season can create the separation required for that player to see the field with an extra year to actually play.
In football, it is commonly referred to as trading a player's worst year for his best year. As I said, draft eligibility after three years makes this moot for many players -- but not all.
Of course, if the player is not ever going to be good enough to get on the field, none of this matters.
In football, it is commonly referred to as trading a player's worst year for his best year. As I said, draft eligibility after three years makes this moot for many players -- but not all.
Of course, if the player is not ever going to be good enough to get on the field, none of this matters.
A friend's son redshirted his freshman year when the All-American catcher couldn't come to terms on a contract and returned for his senior year. There was a backup catcher who was a junior.
R - reality is the coach likes what he sees and is willing to wait a year for you to get better.
E - expects you to use your time wisely and take advantage of the opportunity given you.
D - delayed development compared to your peers is a chance for the late bithdays and maturers to get even.
S - Special time to adjust to the college life without the pressure of competing.
H - healthy lifestyle, learn to maintain good grades and have fun. They're not mutually exclusive.
I - institute good habits by learning from the older players.
R - recognize that the game will have new meaning. It may be the last four years of your career, enjoy every moment.
D - details matter in all things you do. The big picture will take care of itself.
E - expects you to use your time wisely and take advantage of the opportunity given you.
D - delayed development compared to your peers is a chance for the late bithdays and maturers to get even.
S - Special time to adjust to the college life without the pressure of competing.
H - healthy lifestyle, learn to maintain good grades and have fun. They're not mutually exclusive.
I - institute good habits by learning from the older players.
R - recognize that the game will have new meaning. It may be the last four years of your career, enjoy every moment.
D - details matter in all things you do. The big picture will take care of itself.
Regarding the non medical redshirt for a frosh I can speak from experience with my son
He entered college as a 17 year old whippet outfielder 5-8/150 lbs,, Had a few JUCO guys in front of him, one he swore was 25 years of age-- come his second yeat they would be graduated or academically ineligible--he redshirted and started the next 4 years--he also got 32 credits out of the way in the first year so he had no pressure in the final 4 years and graduated in the five years with a degree in Tourism and Hotel Management with his first place of employment waiting in a Trump Hotel in Florida
Yes redshirting can work if the player and school work together
NOTE to TDAD: please explain what a REDSHIRD is ? Thanx
He entered college as a 17 year old whippet outfielder 5-8/150 lbs,, Had a few JUCO guys in front of him, one he swore was 25 years of age-- come his second yeat they would be graduated or academically ineligible--he redshirted and started the next 4 years--he also got 32 credits out of the way in the first year so he had no pressure in the final 4 years and graduated in the five years with a degree in Tourism and Hotel Management with his first place of employment waiting in a Trump Hotel in Florida
Yes redshirting can work if the player and school work together
NOTE to TDAD: please explain what a REDSHIRD is ? Thanx
The 35 man roster limit is making redshirting a moot point.
Not everywhere...
quote:NOTE to TDAD: please explain what a REDSHIRD is ? Thanx
Gee, TR, don't make fun of a person's speech impediment!
ROB
he has a explanation following the D---that ain't no impediment
he has a explanation following the D---that ain't no impediment
Pat, I'd like to buy a T-H and E.quote:D - details matter in all things you do. The big picture will take care of itself.
T - The details matter in all things you do. The big picture will take care of itself.
Maybe he's from Chicago .... Da details
Without any experience or real knowledge of pros & cons, I've tended to lean toward the TRhit school of thought on the subject.
Kid gets a year to adjust to college life. If goal is an education, it seems that the freshman redshirt provides an academic "head start". I really like the idea that the student/athlete who will be challenged greatly with academic and athletic commitments will be able to adjust class workload (take fewer credits in spring)and graduate in 5 years while being covered by scholarship the entire time.
I guess it really does depend on the situation and if the player and coach are on the same page with the decision.
Last point/question. I'm pretty sure that I've seen exceptions in football where a player is given an extra year of eligibility due to injury. Is that not a possibility in the event that an injury occurs in addition to freshman redshirt? The exception would give the kid 6 years to complete 4.
Kid gets a year to adjust to college life. If goal is an education, it seems that the freshman redshirt provides an academic "head start". I really like the idea that the student/athlete who will be challenged greatly with academic and athletic commitments will be able to adjust class workload (take fewer credits in spring)and graduate in 5 years while being covered by scholarship the entire time.
I guess it really does depend on the situation and if the player and coach are on the same page with the decision.
Last point/question. I'm pretty sure that I've seen exceptions in football where a player is given an extra year of eligibility due to injury. Is that not a possibility in the event that an injury occurs in addition to freshman redshirt? The exception would give the kid 6 years to complete 4.
If anyone remembers since it was before my time, it used to be freshman couldn't play varsity. The purpose was a year of acclimation to college life. Does the Ivy League still have this rule?
.
We had two redshirts...
Generally I agree with TDad, lots of things can be gained...BUT assuming that this is DI...the world has changed in the last few years...and if mine were redshirting again I would really want to factor the changes in...
First point...As Dad04 says above, at DI, baseball $ red shirts are now roster spots. This means either you are firmly in the future plans if you are a Baseball $ red shirt and they are utilizing/wasting a roster spot in that manner...OR you are a non Baseball $ redshirt which means you are off the roster and pretty clearly at risk in that particular program. If that were the case I would want talk to the coach and get a real clear and VERY honest picture of the plan for you during the season...what is your development curve and where do they see you in their future. I would suggest that you are likley at risk in that program.
Unlike in years past...At DI, the way that the rules are now written gives the programs a clear option to "shed/reassign" non freshmen over 2.3GPA who are not stars...and reassign that baseball $ to incoming recruits...and to do so without a retribution to the program...and many programs are doing exatly that. This has potential important implications to a redhirt. As CPLZ alludes to above, the worst case scenerio is that you are redshirted and end up transferring...either by choice or "shed/reassigned" by the program, and this whole drawn out process costs you 2 years of eligibility.
If mine were pondering a redshirt for non-medical reasons, I would have a long and VERY detailed talk wth the caoch about just exactly, and in detail where he saw my son seriously contributing to the program in coming years. Unless you like the school so much that you were willing to stay even if baseball where not in the mix.
44
.
We had two redshirts...
Generally I agree with TDad, lots of things can be gained...BUT assuming that this is DI...the world has changed in the last few years...and if mine were redshirting again I would really want to factor the changes in...
First point...As Dad04 says above, at DI, baseball $ red shirts are now roster spots. This means either you are firmly in the future plans if you are a Baseball $ red shirt and they are utilizing/wasting a roster spot in that manner...OR you are a non Baseball $ redshirt which means you are off the roster and pretty clearly at risk in that particular program. If that were the case I would want talk to the coach and get a real clear and VERY honest picture of the plan for you during the season...what is your development curve and where do they see you in their future. I would suggest that you are likley at risk in that program.
Unlike in years past...At DI, the way that the rules are now written gives the programs a clear option to "shed/reassign" non freshmen over 2.3GPA who are not stars...and reassign that baseball $ to incoming recruits...and to do so without a retribution to the program...and many programs are doing exatly that. This has potential important implications to a redhirt. As CPLZ alludes to above, the worst case scenerio is that you are redshirted and end up transferring...either by choice or "shed/reassigned" by the program, and this whole drawn out process costs you 2 years of eligibility.
If mine were pondering a redshirt for non-medical reasons, I would have a long and VERY detailed talk wth the caoch about just exactly, and in detail where he saw my son seriously contributing to the program in coming years. Unless you like the school so much that you were willing to stay even if baseball where not in the mix.
44.
I think it is the smartest move a ballplayer can make. If son had done it, he would have been drafted. Didn't and wasn't.
TR, can't get anything by you can I. My son was red shirted and because of it he'll compete with an added 25Lbs and 5mph on the fastball. We'll end up paying for a fifth year of schooling but graduate school was always part of the plan anyway. In the end there never seems to be enough pitching but would be curious to hear from the position players perspective.
Different strokes for different folks.
My son was redshirted his first year - he was just being stockpiled - but it worked to his advantage.
However - the new D-1 rules inject a whole new level of risk into the equation. IMO.
My son was redshirted his first year - he was just being stockpiled - but it worked to his advantage.
However - the new D-1 rules inject a whole new level of risk into the equation. IMO.
Draft is based a lot upon projectability, and redshirting actually, IMO, takes away that projectibility. The player is older, that can work against you. Entry into the milb system puts you at an older age compared to others, and if you don't perform or move up quickly, you could be released before your contract is up.
And yes, that means paying for one more year of college.
Things have changed drastically since TR's son went to college, things have even changed since mine has left, I wouldn't advise redshirt, unless the player is injured (medical waiver) or is struggling in school. And I would certainly take the advice of OB44, ask what future plans they actually have for the player.
Used to be that freshman sat, not anymore, more and more freshman are playing asap, even in the larger programs, maybe not starters but they are in the game.
With roster limits, players still have opportunities to play other positions, and get to hit.
To answer the question, I do beleive that there is no such term in NCAA as a medical redshirt, it's a waiver granted if the injury meets the requirements. There is a possibility that a redshirted player might get injured, then if a waiver given that's two years gone without playing, you won't see a fifth or sixth year unless you give up your scholarship or you are exceptional, the coach needs the money.
JMO.
And yes, that means paying for one more year of college.
Things have changed drastically since TR's son went to college, things have even changed since mine has left, I wouldn't advise redshirt, unless the player is injured (medical waiver) or is struggling in school. And I would certainly take the advice of OB44, ask what future plans they actually have for the player.
Used to be that freshman sat, not anymore, more and more freshman are playing asap, even in the larger programs, maybe not starters but they are in the game.
With roster limits, players still have opportunities to play other positions, and get to hit.
To answer the question, I do beleive that there is no such term in NCAA as a medical redshirt, it's a waiver granted if the injury meets the requirements. There is a possibility that a redshirted player might get injured, then if a waiver given that's two years gone without playing, you won't see a fifth or sixth year unless you give up your scholarship or you are exceptional, the coach needs the money.
JMO.
While Red Shirting has worked well for some it has been our experience that it has worked badly for many others. The ages 18-19 are very important years in a baseball players development.
It can be a big detriment if the goal is to play professional baseball. Sure some have overcome that obstacle, but I would consider it an obsticle. (One of those obstacles is probably spelled correctly) Age is not the problem for pro chances because you will still be draft eligible at 21. It's not playing that is the problem, especially for position players.
If a player is going to be red shirted, I would suggest making sure he has a summer team to play on. You don't get better by "not" playing.
If you are part of a recruiting class where some freshman play and you are redshirted... The next year there is a whole new recruiting class to compete against along with those returning.
I'm not against redshirting, but I think people need to understand the whole picture. It hasn't work out well for everyone in the past and now it's even a tougher situation to deal with.
It can be a big detriment if the goal is to play professional baseball. Sure some have overcome that obstacle, but I would consider it an obsticle. (One of those obstacles is probably spelled correctly) Age is not the problem for pro chances because you will still be draft eligible at 21. It's not playing that is the problem, especially for position players.
If a player is going to be red shirted, I would suggest making sure he has a summer team to play on. You don't get better by "not" playing.
If you are part of a recruiting class where some freshman play and you are redshirted... The next year there is a whole new recruiting class to compete against along with those returning.
I'm not against redshirting, but I think people need to understand the whole picture. It hasn't work out well for everyone in the past and now it's even a tougher situation to deal with.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
...overcome that obstacle, but I would consider it an obsticle. (One of those obstacles is probably spelled correctly)
...but I would consider it an
Personally I would like to see the baseball scholarships become 5 years with the player not playing his frosh year . The kids today enter college at a very young age and I am not sure the majority of them are ready for what they will be facing. The frosh can work out regularly with the team and still work on his game while also eliminating 32 or more credits as he gets acclimated to college life.
In my sons case, and yes times have changed but the basic premise here is still the same, he was not being stockpiled. He could have chosen to not redshirt if he wanted to do so--coach gave him the choice. The decison was his first major one as a maturing college student.
But then what do I know about these things other than it worked in my sons case. He also graduated with a better GPA than he had in HS, with his degree and a job waiting for him the day he graduated.
ALSO keep in mind that the majority of players do not play college ball looking to be drafted---they go to play college ball and get a college degree or in may cases get a college degree and play college ball as well.Parents need to realize this when looking at the big picture
In my sons case, and yes times have changed but the basic premise here is still the same, he was not being stockpiled. He could have chosen to not redshirt if he wanted to do so--coach gave him the choice. The decison was his first major one as a maturing college student.
But then what do I know about these things other than it worked in my sons case. He also graduated with a better GPA than he had in HS, with his degree and a job waiting for him the day he graduated.
ALSO keep in mind that the majority of players do not play college ball looking to be drafted---they go to play college ball and get a college degree or in may cases get a college degree and play college ball as well.Parents need to realize this when looking at the big picture
Does a redshirt year count in terms of being eligible for the draft? In other words, you are eligible after your junior year to be drafted. If you are redshirted, are you eligible after your baseball sophmore season? Hope that makes sense.
You cannot tell me that most players that go to college don't have the thought of the next level in their dream.
While I agree that most players don't move forward to the next level, I think that is why so many 4 year program players who want to concentrate more on certain degrees, or want to experience more than the endless hours you need to give up for baseball leave the game after 2-3 years, so why would 5 years benefit anyone unless they were injured?
Most of the redshirted players I know, that did not have an injury did not move forward, or if they did get drafted and didn't progress quickly were out of the pro game in 2 years. Son had two teammates redshirted but they were graduated in 4 and scholarships not renewed fifth year. I think if you do your homework you will find that most programs, due to the changes, are not giving out 5th year scholarships for graduate work (again unless an injury has occured).
I do beleive, like PG,that you do not get better sitting out a year, and 17,18 is imprtant in development, that's why JUCO programs are so popular these days. Redshirt years were pretty common years ago in the large programs, not so anymore.
If your player isn't physically ready, or academically ready to enter a 4 year D1 program but has talent, best option is JUCO.
That's just my opinion, that doesn't make it right.
While I agree that most players don't move forward to the next level, I think that is why so many 4 year program players who want to concentrate more on certain degrees, or want to experience more than the endless hours you need to give up for baseball leave the game after 2-3 years, so why would 5 years benefit anyone unless they were injured?
Most of the redshirted players I know, that did not have an injury did not move forward, or if they did get drafted and didn't progress quickly were out of the pro game in 2 years. Son had two teammates redshirted but they were graduated in 4 and scholarships not renewed fifth year. I think if you do your homework you will find that most programs, due to the changes, are not giving out 5th year scholarships for graduate work (again unless an injury has occured).
I do beleive, like PG,that you do not get better sitting out a year, and 17,18 is imprtant in development, that's why JUCO programs are so popular these days. Redshirt years were pretty common years ago in the large programs, not so anymore.
If your player isn't physically ready, or academically ready to enter a 4 year D1 program but has talent, best option is JUCO.
That's just my opinion, that doesn't make it right.
Like just about everything else we discuss on this site you have to look at it on an individual basis. Each situation is different. To say that RS is great or RS is bad is taking a narrow view imo. For some kids its a very good thing. For some other kids its not a good thing. And for some when its all said and done it ends up really not being a factor one way or the other.
My son was TOLD he was going to RS last season after the fall. He had a great fall season. He was voted offensive MVP for his team in the fall WS. There was a JR in front of him who was projected to go high in the draft. My son was told that he would see limited time behind this player. So his Coach told him "We do not want you to waste a year sitting behind _______." "So we are going to RS you."
It was not up to my son. It was up to the coach and his staff. It ended up being a very good thing for my son imo and his. It gave him an entire year to get his academic situation in order. It gave him an entire year to focus on working to get better and practicing with the team. He played in a good summer league. He struggled a bit early from lack of playing in game situations for so long. But after a few games did very well.
The bottom line is RS can be a very good thing for some players. And it can be a not so good thing for others. It all depends on the individual situation. I never cared or worried about how this might or might not impact his future baseball career after college. I trusted that his coaching staff had his and his programs best interests at heart. And he felt the same way. A players future has everything to do with what they do with the opportunities they earn.
My son was TOLD he was going to RS last season after the fall. He had a great fall season. He was voted offensive MVP for his team in the fall WS. There was a JR in front of him who was projected to go high in the draft. My son was told that he would see limited time behind this player. So his Coach told him "We do not want you to waste a year sitting behind _______." "So we are going to RS you."
It was not up to my son. It was up to the coach and his staff. It ended up being a very good thing for my son imo and his. It gave him an entire year to get his academic situation in order. It gave him an entire year to focus on working to get better and practicing with the team. He played in a good summer league. He struggled a bit early from lack of playing in game situations for so long. But after a few games did very well.
The bottom line is RS can be a very good thing for some players. And it can be a not so good thing for others. It all depends on the individual situation. I never cared or worried about how this might or might not impact his future baseball career after college. I trusted that his coaching staff had his and his programs best interests at heart. And he felt the same way. A players future has everything to do with what they do with the opportunities they earn.