Has anyone heard of this other than for injuries? I’ve always perceived JuCos as where you go when you’re not athletically or academically ready for a four year program. I would think rather than redshirting at a JuCo the player would seek a lower level of ball or face reality about their ability.

** The dream is free. Work ethic sold separately. **

Original Post

I've seen several examples. Redshirting the first year allows the player to see competition in practice and adjust to the speed of the game. I've seen this with a home-schooled kid who went to HS for his senior year and wanted to play school baseball (small school) and another home schooled kid who didn't play any HS ball. The first was a position player who had solid swing mechanics, quick hands and a big frame. The second was a pitcher with a nasty 2 seamer.

Happens a lot at some California JC's.  Of the 80 plus programs, I'd say about half or more are significant feeders to programs at various levels across the country.  On average, 8-12 players advance each year from the JC to a 4 yr school in those 40-50 better programs.  A portion of those top schools get very large turnouts and redshirting is commonplace.  It's crazy competitive with good players.

It is happening more and more, especially at the top JUCO's.  They are stockpiling talent & over recruiting and some (many?) of the kids are redshirting for reasons that don't have anything to do with injuries or academics... It's a rough world out there these days!

My question is: since most JUCO signings are for 2 years, especially when there are scholarships involved, are the kids who redshirt eligible to move on after their redshirt year & redshirt freshman year?  (Thus having 3 years of eligibility at a 4 year school?)

I must be missing something. Three years to play two doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. After three years the player is draft eligible and doesn’t need to go on to a four year. The better four year programs are looking for JuCo players who will fill a hole for a year before heading off in the draft. Plus, if a kid is really a pro prospect wouldn’t he typically not need a red shirt JuCo year.

RJM posted:

I must be missing something. Three years to play two doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. After three years the player is draft eligible and doesn’t need to go on to a four year. The better four year programs are looking for JuCo players who will fill a hole for a year before heading off in the draft. Plus, if a kid is really a pro prospect wouldn’t he typically not need a red shirt JuCo year.

It doesn't make much sense to me, either, but it is happening and the kid doesn't have much say in the matter, from what I understand.  If you sign for 2 years there isn't an opportunity to transfer unless the school grants you a release...

There are 300 D1's... So while any D1 player might have in their back of their mind that they'd love to go pro, there are all sorts of reasons to start out in JUCO first, first & foremost having the 1st 2 years of school at either very low cost or no cost.... There are several mid major D1 schools where a majority of their roster is former JUCO guys (just off the top of my head, SEMO, Chicago State, & Hawaii come to mind).  

Not every college Baseball prospect is academically inclined.  Some are utilizing JUCO's to get half their education paid for, or at low cost while continuing to play ball.

From what I'm hearing, times are changing so quickly & JUCO's are becoming so oversaturated with talent that it is better to walk on at a D1 and take your chances there as opposed to being one of 75 kids at a JUCO...

As always, you gotta do your homework.  There are some JUCO's that do not over recruit.

3and2Fastball posted:
RJM posted:

I must be missing something. Three years to play two doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. After three years the player is draft eligible and doesn’t need to go on to a four year. The better four year programs are looking for JuCo players who will fill a hole for a year before heading off in the draft. Plus, if a kid is really a pro prospect wouldn’t he typically not need a red shirt JuCo year.

It doesn't make much sense to me, either, but it is happening and the kid doesn't have much say in the matter, from what I understand.  If you sign for 2 years there isn't an opportunity to transfer unless the school grants you a release...

There are 300 D1's... So while any D1 player might have in their back of their mind that they'd love to go pro, there are all sorts of reasons to start out in JUCO first, first & foremost having the 1st 2 years of school at either very low cost or no cost.... There are several mid major D1 schools where a majority of their roster is former JUCO guys (just off the top of my head, SEMO, Chicago State, & Hawaii come to mind).  

Not every college Baseball prospect is academically inclined.  Some are utilizing JUCO's to get half their education paid for, or at low cost while continuing to play ball.

From what I'm hearing, times are changing so quickly & JUCO's are becoming so oversaturated with talent that it is better to walk on at a D1 and take your chances there as opposed to being one of 75 kids at a JUCO...

As always, you gotta do your homework.  There are some JUCO's that do not over recruit.

You don't need a release, the NCAA and NAIA are completely different governing bodies. You also aren't signing for 2 years, you can leave after 1 and in regards to the top set of jucos in Tx, FL, Ca, NV - they have enough talent coming in each year to the point where they almost need guys to transfer out ASAP. 

PABaseball posted:
3and2Fastball posted:
RJM posted:

I must be missing something. Three years to play two doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. After three years the player is draft eligible and doesn’t need to go on to a four year. The better four year programs are looking for JuCo players who will fill a hole for a year before heading off in the draft. Plus, if a kid is really a pro prospect wouldn’t he typically not need a red shirt JuCo year.

It doesn't make much sense to me, either, but it is happening and the kid doesn't have much say in the matter, from what I understand.  If you sign for 2 years there isn't an opportunity to transfer unless the school grants you a release...

There are 300 D1's... So while any D1 player might have in their back of their mind that they'd love to go pro, there are all sorts of reasons to start out in JUCO first, first & foremost having the 1st 2 years of school at either very low cost or no cost.... There are several mid major D1 schools where a majority of their roster is former JUCO guys (just off the top of my head, SEMO, Chicago State, & Hawaii come to mind).  

Not every college Baseball prospect is academically inclined.  Some are utilizing JUCO's to get half their education paid for, or at low cost while continuing to play ball.

From what I'm hearing, times are changing so quickly & JUCO's are becoming so oversaturated with talent that it is better to walk on at a D1 and take your chances there as opposed to being one of 75 kids at a JUCO...

As always, you gotta do your homework.  There are some JUCO's that do not over recruit.

You don't need a release, the NCAA and NAIA are completely different overning bodies. You also aren't signing for 2 years, you can leave after 1 and in regards to the top set of jucos in Tx, FL, Ca, NV - they have enough talent coming in each year to the point where they almost need guys to transfer out ASAP. 

Leaving a JuCo for an NCAA program after one year only applies to student-athletes who were NCAA eligible coming out of high school. 

RJM posted:

I must be missing something. Three years to play two doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. After three years the player is draft eligible and doesn’t need to go on to a four year. The better four year programs are looking for JuCo players who will fill a hole for a year before heading off in the draft. Plus, if a kid is really a pro prospect wouldn’t he typically not need a red shirt JuCo year.

I have a feeling I'm missing your point but...

Again, just referencing California... many HS players who don't cast a wide net and/or don't have a decent recruiting plan find out late that the in-state 4 yr schools have way more supply than demand (except maybe expensive D3's out of their cost range) so they find the JC route is the easier or only option if they want to keep playing.  Then, many find themselves in a big room full of other good players and come fall, have a JC coach asking them to redshirt (greyshirt) a year to develop.  Most of these guys are good players but we're not talking "draftable" good.  The guys that are draft worthy don't get greyshirted in JC that I'm aware of.  No, three years to play two isn't ideal at all but it is the circumstance that many find themselves in.   

The better D1's may be looking for that kid to fill a hole for 1 yr before draft but the majority of 4 yr schools across levels are looking to these JC kids to come in already proven to be able to handle the rigors of college and contribute on the field at that level.  They are good bets to then contribute two years at the 4-yr school.  Again, not talking about the draftables.

I don't know about redshirting, but it's not just about D1 or the draft.   LOTS of California D2's  are chock full of JC transfers.  Indeed,  when we were looking into this in California at least the  JC route  seemed like the single most travelled route to a roster spot at a D2.   One school basically told the kid that although the he would love to have him come to the school but that he rostered almost no frosh but instead asked the one's he thought might eventually earn a roster spot to co-enroll at a local JC and to play with them for the first two years at the 4 year school.  

Regarding RJM's comment about "Leaving a JUCO for an NCAA program after one year...", that is true if the athlete would be transferring to a Division I program. 

But it would be possible for an athlete who was not NCAA-eligible out of HS to transfer to an NCAA D2 program after just one year, as long as they satisfied all the appropriate academic requirements.  

One son attended 2 different JUCOs in SO CAL.  Both had red shirts at pitcher and  position players. Not sure of the reasons for all but from what I know, a kid needing an extra year for grades or development to be more competitive in the very competitive juco system. A few were just too many guys at one position and coach trying to keep the guy around. Teams can be very fluid. 

3and2Fastball posted:

It is happening more and more, especially at the top JUCO's.  They are stockpiling talent & over recruiting and some (many?) of the kids are redshirting for reasons that don't have anything to do with injuries or academics... It's a rough world out there these days!

My question is: since most JUCO signings are for 2 years, especially when there are scholarships involved, are the kids who redshirt eligible to move on after their redshirt year & redshirt freshman year?  (Thus having 3 years of eligibility at a 4 year school?)

Most JuCo signings are not for two years. They are one year deals and 2 different NLIs are signed by the player. Terms can be the same in year 2 or they can change radically. 

I mentioned this in another thread, and Cabbage alluded to it also, but what we are talking about is an imbalance of supply and demand. There are more good ball players then there are places for them to play. Whenever there is an imperfection in any commodity market that creates both hardship and opportunity. In this case the hardship is on the player and the opportunity goes to the school. Kids are so desperate to hang on to the D1 dream that they make bad decisions. I agree that using 3 years to play 2 at a JuCo isn’t a good idea. But kids are willing to do it and the schools promote it as it benefits the school more than the player (usually).  So many kids and parents are just not realistic about what it takes to play at a good D1 or a good D2 baseball program. So many people would be better off if they would focus on D3 as soon as the market feedback told them that’s where they belonged. 

I know one who is voluntarily taking a redshirt at juco.  Signed with P5 and got in trouble.  Got in trouble in fall of freshman year again and went to juco last year and played.  Got in some more trouble and is hoping to get better by redshirting and putting the past behind him.  Is talking to several P5 teams about coming in with 3 years eligibility.  I don't understand it.  I think his problem is he can't get drafted because of trouble and P5 won't touch him right now.  They want him to prove he can stay straight. 

Not reccomending that route but, a kid who graduated from my son's HS a few years before him did a red shirt year at the local Juco, played 2 years, won CA state championship, was recruited to play at a mid-major D1, and was then drafted in the 4th round.  Obviously he's the exception, not the rule, but they've had other RS players with successful outcomes as well.  They've also had a lot whose playing days are over after they leave juco.  Nothing wrong with that. Most of these guys know they're never going pro.   They are in the program for three years because they love to play.

Two of the best statements I have read on this site are:

1) Go where you are loved by the head coach --  this is the surest opportunity to play you will get...

2) Everyone's journey is different -- or as Nick Saban might say it...it takes what it takes...If it takes a redshirt year at a juco on your journey that's just what it takes...if it takes transferring to 3 schools in 3 years to get on the field on your journey that's just what it takes...if it takes a redshirt year and 2 on the bench to play as a JR/SR on your journey that's just what it takes...it's your journey...do what YOU think is necessary and fight like hell to find YOUR path...Nobody else cares... but they will freely offer their opinion and criticism....

I will throw this out there from experience albeit a different day in time so take it with a grain of salt. 

I red shirted my first year of JUCO.  My reason was decided for me but I agreed with the coaches as they sat me down and discussed my options.  I had a loved one who was killed in a car accident a few weeks before the first season game.  They thought I needed the time with the extra year for mental purposes.  So I agreed and took it.  Best thing for me as I was young HS graduate (140 Lbs) so the extra year was spent practicing, working out etc.  So yes 3 years at a 2 year school.  But like someone above said, everybody's road is different.  

I had to sign the scholarship every year at Juco.  

I will say this about JUCO, you will play against some really talented kids.  Some guys get drafted after year one, some get picked up by DI colleges during the season due to injuries, some go on to play at a 4 year school, and some quit baseball all together.  I've watched talent be thrown away due to no work ethic or alcohol and drugs.  I've played against a few guys that had long careers in the MLB.  One of them was (140 Lbs) as a freshman and sophomore then transferred to Auburn and he was SEC player of the year in hitting/pitching. He ended up pitching 17 years in the MLB.  You just never know, Hard work, Attitude and God given talent! 

cabbagedad posted:

Happens a lot at some California JC's.  Of the 80 plus programs, I'd say about half or more are significant feeders to programs at various levels across the country.  On average, 8-12 players advance each year from the JC to a 4 yr school in those 40-50 better programs.  A portion of those top schools get very large turnouts and redshirting is commonplace.  It's crazy competitive with good players.

Agree with this. I went the California JC route before going D1. I went to one of the top programs, at the time, in NorCal.  Our team turned out a lot of D1 players. My freshman year they were sophomore heavy on the pitching staff. The head coach originally asked me if I wanted to redshirt that year but also saw that I was academic guy and understood why I didn't want to. My best friend ended up red shirting his freshman year at the same JC. What ends up happening is that there were a handful of redshirts, but some ended up just quitting instead of practicing everyday. Only the ones that were serious stuck around. Two of those red shirts actually got drafted that year without even playing in a real game. Both went on to play D1 after their redshirt freshman year. One made it all the way up to the big leagues with the Angels. 

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