Released

quote:

Yeah, to paraphrase BeenthereIL; "GIVE UP, QUIT DREAMING, SEE THE WRITING ON THE WALL, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY AND YOU AIN'T GETTING ANY, YOU'RE A HASBEEN, GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE OTHERWISE YOU'LL NEVER AMOUNT TO ANYTHING!"

Frank: That is a very poor "paraphrase" of what I've written.

Has nothing to do with "...you're a hasbeen...you'll never amount to anything"...

I'm trying to help those "starry-eyed" kids that get released after having been drafted in the later rounds(and I was one many years ago) and get released by their organization.

Independent leagues are a waste of time unless you are a pitcher. Of all of the independent leagues in existence for the past 10 years, I don't know of a single position player that subsequently played in the major leagues for more than one season.

My older son who was drafted in the 8th round years ago, suggests the same thing. He also tried the independent leagues route after his release and wasted another 2 years of his "getting on with the real world" life!

John,

Excuse the "you'll never amount to anything" from your paraphrase. I'm pretty much right on for the rest of it.

Maybe its not just about money. Maybe its the thrill of playing baseball (a game!). Maybe money isn't everything. My son played catch with a player who's been playing for 13 years never higher than AAA. He's loving his life! I know a few who toiled in the minors for as many as 10 years who never got that "cup of coffee" and wouldn't change a thing. Believe it or not, they turned out all right. Maybe not CEO's, etc... but happy just the same.

I know at least a couple graduates who are making $80K plus right out of college who have said they would trade it right now to still be playing.

One shoe doesn't always fit everyone. My son has his degree in his back pocket however I'm not sure he will ever use it to the fullest. Life is too short to have any regrets. For those who's dream is to play baseball, I say "go for it" until they take your glove and cleats away.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this.

Been

Sometimes it all falls on deaf ears---I recall the Division I coach whose son was drafted out of college and spent 6 or so years in the minors with a very quick cup of coffee---what he said to me was "My son's life was on HOLD the entire time"

It is great to have dreams but unless you have a contract with big bucks you are nothing but a roster filling spot--that is the reality

quote:

Sometimes it all falls on deaf ears

Truer words were never spoken! I'll leave it at that!

BTW, What did the son have to say about his 6 years in the minors? I'd be willing to bet he doesn't regret it.

Frank

And he now works at a training facility

Somehow I was expecting this kind of response to what I posted.

I was an "organizational" player...I learned much later what MLB and the minor leagues were all about. I just want kids who are drafted in the late rounds to know how remote your chances are about making the big leagues. Most low minor league roster spots are filled with players who MLB knows will never have a chance to get to the big leagues...but they'll (the kids) die trying.

Take my comments for what they are worth, folks. My experiences, nothing more, nothing less.

quote:

I'm trying to help those "starry-eyed" kids that get released

Thanks for having their back.

I'd be willing to bet they know exactly how remote their chances are of making it to the show. That said, someone just might be that "needle in a haystack". Maybe they are playing for the "Love of the Game".

I guess I'm a dreamer and a glass half full type of guy.

I'm also speaking from experience as one who had a tryout lined up (thanks to an uncle who knew the GM) but didn't even go. Not that I would have made it or anything, but the stories I could have told. Life's not all about money.

No hard feelings, it takes all kinds to make the world go around.

Well i see yet another topic has been started from this, i'll update you on my situation first then comment on my view on the new topic.

Well my tryout with the dodgers went well today, i didnt make the team but it wasnt as much because of my ability as it was my Anxiety problem. The Pitching Coordinator told my agent that i sweating bullets before i had even thrown a pitch, and that was true. I've been hiding my anxiety problem for awhile now, it started in Instructs my first year of pro ball and just progressively got worse since then. My plans now are to take about a month off and get my head straight, gonna start seeing a sports psychologist set up by my agent. Because everyone knows i've got the stuff i just gotta get my head straight first so i can put it to use.


As for the new topic in here,it seems to me that people are basing life in baseball on money, and how that its a waste of time if you dont get a lot of it. Well heres how i see it, being a higher round guy and getting more money than any 18 year old knows what to do with. I think i can honestly assess this topic. I dont know how many of you on here have high paying jobs, or how many of you have ever had a lot of money, so maybe you can relate to this maybe you cant. But when your young and you receive a lot of money, the first thing you do is get anything and everything you've ever wanted. I remember i would be watching TV and see a commercial for something and run out and buy it just because i could. I mean you name it i bought it, for the first 3-4 months it was great, but what happens is eventually you run out of stuff you want or stuff you need and the money is no longer as fun as it was. Because once you have everything you could want, you dont have anything else to try to get.That is the one good thing i have come to realize out of this situation is that money isnt everything. People say that all the time, but until you have money you never realize its true. I didnt get in baseball for the money, it was never about that, and i received some good advice from Chet Lemon on the subject when i was in high school and asking him about the decision of going pro or college and he said " If you wanna make a lot of money, go to college, play, have fun and make money after college doing whatever you do, but if you have never seen yourself as anything other than a ballplayer and you dont care about the money, go pro, you can go to college at anytime, you cant play ball forever" Thats all i have to say on the subject as for me im gonna go grab some dinner, tommorrow i drive back to PCB to resume workouts and fix my anxiety problem. Later!

Shane ..

You make some very good points and I think it is a good idea to see a sports psychologist to try and sort out the anxiety. I am sure it isn't uncommon for a young player who has always been the cream of the crop to experience new found anxiety when they are out on the field with a bunch of cream of the crop types. I wish you well.

Now, in case anybody, including you, might be interested in my opinion ... if a young man (to me, that is up to 30 years old) wants to play ball ... MLB farm team or independent league team ... he should do it. Personally, as long as a player isn't on the public dole, I have no problem with what he wants to do with this life, as long as it isn't illegal or immoral.

Not everybody is intended to make beaucoup bucks in their careers/professions. There are artists and song writers and historians and all kinds of other disciplines out there that do NOT bring millions to the bank. But nevertheless, these kinds of disciplines have become passions for the people that follow them, and these people are happy, these people experience joy in their lives that many 9 to 5'ers will NEVER experience or understand. And they would never get to feel that joy had they not followed their dreams, no matter how impractical it might seem. With the increases in longevity of life in this world, I don't think people should put their dreams on hold, on the back burner, or in the attic. Go with gusto and enjoy the ride. And never, never, never consider that dream chasing to be a waste of time as long as you are enjoying it while you are chasing it.

Good luck. And please keep us posted ...

^^^ good point, i worked a real job in the offseason and i hated it with a passion, i mean i'll play ball as long as possible, especially if i dont have a family to support, if i had a wife and kids it'd be a different story, but being a single young man, no problems doint what i love, cant stop without giving it your best shot. Besides i wouldnt trade the time i've played for nothing so far, its a great feeling knowing your biggest decision all day is what pitch to throw and where you want to eat that night.

Shane I was wondering why you did not see a sports shrink after your first year in pro ball or after your 2nd season.

i had talked to a shrink last year, but he was wanting $800 a month to keep talking, so i abandoned that approach, i contacted that guy on my own, i was afraid to let my agent or family know because its kind of embarrassing having a mental problem and i didnt want people to think im crazy. Now the cat is out of the bag so im gonna get everything fixed. Luckily im getting it taken care of now before im totally done, i still have teams interested in me just from reports their scouts have given them in the past so i can still get tryouts, i just have to correct this problem as soon as possible because once im back to normal and have my stuff i'll get signed because if i'm throwing 94 with a nasty deuce i can find a job so im not as worried now about getting a job as i am about getting my head straight and getting back to where i need to be. Especially since i dont even turn 20 until may, hopefully i can get things straightened out before my 20th B-day and get back to where i need to be

Frank Martin - imho the follwing questions are borderline inappropriate:

quote:

Basic question, what happened?

You threw strikes in high school and summer ball , but not in pro ball and you were hit hard in the Arizona League and could not throw a strike.

That is either a mental or mechanically thing. So best get in touch with a pitching coach that KNOWS what he is doing and make you better.

quote:

Shane I was wondering why you did not see a sports shrink after your first year in pro ball or after your 2nd season.

These are none of your or anyone's elses business imho and frankly should not be asked in public. Sure be nice when the chips are down for one of our members if people would try and help them rather than fire bullets at them. Some of your other ideas seemed helpful.

Shane - I truly admire your candor and as I said before you are one of my favorite members here, but imho you don't owe anybody an explanation. Some of the things you have shared are YOUR own personal business and should only be shared privately with someone you trust imho.

Shane you are absolutely not alone. Plenty of guys go through it but never get past the anxiety because they didn't face it or get help. You never hear about them because they just disapear. It is very treatable with a little help, time and effort. Good Luck.

Shane in my mind you have opened and contributed to the best thread this site has seen in a long time. I'm not going to offer my condolences because you have shown you are bigger than any baseball issue that may be in front of you and I am sure you will get by it.

I don't want to hijack the intent of Shanes thread but the anxiety issue does not only occur at Shanes level but at every level of baseball which includes youth. This is a fantastic "heads-up" for parents to recognize the signs. Many of our threads on this site evolve around "daddyball", select teams, coaching issues, costs, equality, abuse, jealousy, training, pompus attitudes, and the list goes on. Think about it....these are adult issues that a kid cannot control, but when all is said and done, "shet runs down hill", and thats where the kids sit, and that is where anxiety festers. I guess I never thought about this until Shane opened up. Maybe as parents, coaches, friends, and family we should keep this lesson a little closer to our heart and remember that when all is said and done, at the youth level, it's only a game.

Thanks and good luck Shane

Shane

Good luck.

Shane,

You are a first class young man,you should be proud of all you have and will accomplish!!

catchersdad

This is a very important topic, started by a nice young man facing a hurdle. Hope everyone will bear with me giving these thoughts. I don't think arguing about our different opinions is as important as people giving them. They are just opinions, including all of the following.

IMO - We can’t tell people what to do or not do. People do what is in their heart. Baseball is very much part of the entertainment industry at the professional level. The entertainment industry is full of people who did not succeed and lots of people making millions of dollars. It actually is part of “our” real world!

Some travel the world, some climb mountains or skydive. What is the “real” world everyone speaks of? If that is just going to college, getting a job and having a family and not chasing a dream, would there even be any baseball in a real world? Would there be any music or movies? It’s not just baseball… The world is full of struggling actors, artists, writers and musicians chasing a dream! What would our life be like with out any comedians?

What about the other sports like boxing, track and field, tennis, golf, race car drivers, etc. There are only a few who make big money, but so many who are chasing a dream. Are all these people doing it because they are unrealistic or because they love what they’re doing.

What about the college graduate or even high school graduate who has a desire to make baseball his profession even after his playing days end? There are many former minor league players who didn’t make it who have had great careers in baseball. There are everything from GMs, scouting directors, managers, administrators,etc. who never made the Big Leagues, but wouldn’t be where they are without the experience they gained while chasing that dream.

The world is full of people fighting the odds by starting their own business and chasing a dream. Yet, over all, the odds of success are not good, most businesses fail and sometimes leave people with no money and broken hearts. Where would we be if no one ever took the risk?

This country is based on people chasing dreams. We all see the proof each and every day. I know the realists are important, but so are the dreamers and risk takers. It’s not about the odds all the time. Those who play the odds would stay away from playing baseball for a living. It is full of risks including career ending injury.

No matter what the odds are for any group, there are individuals who will beat those odds. An individual is not a group and does not pertain to the odds. An individual can’t be less than 10% successful at reaching a dream, he or she will either reach the dream in which case they are 100% successful or they will fail, just like most everyone has done at something and be 0% successful at reaching their dream. If that happens they need to adjust and go on (new dream).

There is nothing wrong with a young person giving up his dream and moving along with their life. There is nothing wrong with a young person, or even an old person, living their life doing what they want and chasing a dream. It takes both types to make this world what it is… But you can’t score if you don’t shoot!

Shane, do whatever is in your heart (no matter what that is) and give it everything you have. If it don’t work, go to step 2 and strive to be successful at that. Many of us would love to see you clear this hurdle. In the end, it’s all up to you and what you want to do. If you play ball, it’s not a waste of time. If it’s the “real” world, that aint so easy either. They both involve learning as much as you can and then using it.

Just to be clear... I am a dreamer and always will be. There are many non-dreamers who are much more successful, but not any happier.

Nice post, PGStaff.

PG,
and you said it much better than I tried to say it.

I'm reminded of a quote by Martin Luther when he said "If the world was falling to pieces he would plant an apple tree". Not exactly sure where he was coming from, but in my feeble mind I'd like to think that if he was doing what he loved, regardless of what was going on around him, he'd continue to do it.

How many of us if we knew it would be our last day would say they would like to spend it behind their desk at work? If so, great, you're probably doing what you love to do. I'd be willing to bet that those that love and play(ed) the game would say that they would love to have one more at bat, pitch one more game, etc...

I guess you can put me in the dreamer category. When Jimmy V stated "Don't give up, don't ever give up." I'd like to think it encompasses everything we do in life.

Could not agree more - great post PGStaff...

Shane - best of luck to you in your journey - where ever it may take you.

Shane,
Count me in with the DREAMERS, too
We've always told my son

"Don't EVER let anyone or anything steal your DREAM!"

You are blessed & have incredible fortune ahead of you...You can climb ANY mountain. Then, when you get there, it will only have been a "molehill".
Follow your heart, young man!

quote:

I guess you can put me in the dreamer category. When Jimmy V stated "Don't give up, don't ever give up." I'd like to think it encompasses everything we do in life.

Frank, I'm with ya 100%!

Shane, You're obviously mature enough to understand that counseling offers help that many people out there in the world need. Receiving the help you need from a professional is a sign of maturity and wisdom... not weakness. There are many people who never understand that and continue to battle things in their lives without receiving the help they need. We're all proud of you for taking the appropriate steps to be able to continue to pursue your dream.

PGStaff, what a great post!

And Frank, I thought you said it really well, too.

Shane, we are all pulling for you! I believe you can do it!

pg,frank
great post's. i just had a reality check of my own. so i'll share. my uncle just passed. 78 yrs old, never married. worked 40 years for a major co. retired in 89. i had to go to ohio and clean out his apt. i was there for two days in a studio apt. and it dawned on me that his whole life was in a studio apt. was he happy? did he make a lot of freinds? money? it really doesn't matter how life ends as much as the journey to get there. and the ride is different for all of us,with bumps and turns etc. but it is YOUR journey.and no one can tell you your on the right or wrong road cause they don't know where your going.and you might not either. remember it's the jouney not the destination that counts.

i still don't know what i want to be when i grow up,i'm betting i'm not alone either. you'll be fine shane just enjoy.

This thread has taken off. Our son now with the reds after being released is very happy. Coaches say they are very pleased and told him today that he commands a presence in the dug out. Shortstop position is his to lose. He was very bubbly today when he talked to his mom( spelling looks wrong). If it does not work out he needs only 3 hours to finish school and have his degree from Baylor. When he was released he was devastated and stirred a fire in him to play even more. Funny thing the day before he was cut, my wife was praying and a scripture came to her, something like " help will come before the heat of the day". Well he was released at 9 wed. morning and the reds called at 12. One more thing he is getting to room with one of the players from Baylor, he said he has never been happier. Shane hang in there, you are still very young, good luck .

That was a very nice post shortstop...I can't wait to hear about more of his journey.

I meant to post this earlier....the uplifting, encouraging stories are great...but what BeenthereIL posted was the truth. It was not sugarcoated or otherwise watered-down and he was truly not calling anyone a has-been...MLB is ruthless at cut time, not always right in who they cut, but there is total truth in his words. It is just one side of the whole journey, but nevertheless, should be in the decision making process. I have watched one MLB team give a minimal talent position player..but a "prospect" -all the time he needs, (big $ draft) while they let greater talent go. Makes no sense. I guess they are trying to save face, until all that so called "future talent" kicks in!

Cat,

Thanks.

It is a much shorter string for college position players than for high school kids, too.

Wholesale releases in the past few days...A ton more soon after the June draft.

It is a numbers game.

Sad, but some just don't get it.

Fellows: If you are drafted after the 10th round and you've played a couple of years of pro ball; have unremarkable performance on the field; and, you get released...GET ON WITH THE REST OF OUR LIFE.

Beenthere, you are a little off topic. Shane was a money 4th round pick. He was not a hamburger filler pick.

BeenthereIL plainly stated he was trying to help those "starry-eyed" kids in the later rounds. Not off topic at all.

Shane, and others mentioned here, sounds like they are going to do just fine, BT was helping others who read here to learn and make intelligent decisions.

I understand what beenthere means and his desire to help young kids. What if everyone followed that advice? There are hundreds of players who were either drafted after the 10th round or were released at one time (or more) and still over came all of that to have a Major League career.

I don't think beenthere really means it, but his message is loud and clear... Quit! And in most cases that is probably sound advice! Only, there are many who took a different path and succeeded. Our world is not full of criminals who were former professional baseball players. All former players are not working at McDonalds. There's always the rest of your life for other things. I just don't believe chasing a dream is a waste of time for any young person. Sometimes it works!

The odds of any little leaguer playing after high school are so small they aren't even measurable. Maybe the 5 year olds should quit to avoid the inevitable disapointment from wasting their youth.

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:
The odds of any little leaguer playing after high school are so small they aren't even measurable. Maybe the 5 year olds should quit to avoid the inevitable disapointment from wasting their youth.

To continue with that thought...

Most college ballplayers who aren't on athletic scholarships and who know their careers will be over after college should probably quit now and use that time more wisely by taking extra classes, get a part time job, etc... you know, "get on with the rest of their life".

Frank- to be fair, there are some, a few college players that actually do realize their true interests and desires lie in focusing on their areas of study, students who actually would rather spend their extra time on academics. I'm glad not everyone feels that way, though. Nothing wrong with that. The time commitment to college baseball is sizable, to say the least.

After college these kids are big boys, who most will be told to hang it up soon enough and be just fine. Some would have us believe all interstate overpasses are crammed full with ex-pro ballplayers.

quote:

Frank- to be fair, there are some college players that actually do realize their true interests and desires lie in focusing on their areas of study, students who actually would rather spend their extra time on academics. I'm glad not everyone feels that way, though. Nothing wrong with that. The time commitment to college baseball is sizable, to say the least.

Of course! My son knows quite a few of them. Basically that's what I'm talking about; do what you love to do! As long as (as MA stated) you're not a drain on society (when you don't have to be), who's to say what you are supposed to do with "the rest of your life".

quote:

Originally posted by FrankF:

quote:

Frank- to be fair, there are some college players that actually do realize their true interests and desires lie in focusing on their areas of study, students who actually would rather spend their extra time on academics. I'm glad not everyone feels that way, though. Nothing wrong with that. The time commitment to college baseball is sizable, to say the least.

Of course! My son knows quite a few of them. Basically that's what I'm talking about; do what you love to do! As long as (as MA stated) you're not a drain on society (when you don't have to be), who's to say what you are supposed to do with "the rest of your life".

I agree completely. If we were all the same, it would be pretty boring. We would have nothing to write about either.

There is plenty of time to be a grown-up bidniss man.

You know guys...the odds(of making it) you are talking about...LL and hamburger rounds...are just about the same...a tiny single percentage. The only thing important to both is the desire and heart-not to mention talent...to get to the bigs. What BT says (to those with the talent, heart, etc to make it)is not going to make a bit of difference....those that make it do not listen to anyone except themselves (and good for them). You are preaching to the preacher. BT's advice is not going to stop anyone that is going to make it anyway....which is effect what you are saying. He's right and the ones that make it are right...everyone in the middle makes up the rest of that percentage that he speaks to. Realism is harsh...but it is supported by the numbers...
It is caring and responsible to warn about possible pitfalls in life's decisions...you only have to personally know a few of the "bad" stories to feel obliged to warn others...that is in no way "dream dashing"...that is simply the right thing to do. Like I said, NOTHING stops the ones that beat the odds and make it. Good for them.

I would have taken my chances if I just had the chance.

Hell, I didn't start making real money until I was 26 anyways. I would have gladly switched those nights at the bar, for nights on the road waiting to play a game the next day.

As the saying goes... "Not everybody grows up to be an astronaut, but those who do enjoy the view"

Best of luck to you Shane, work hard and prove them wrong.

I am going to add one more thought FWIW because of what I am reading between the lines of our representative "realists" [BeenThere, I respect your opinions but we just happen to disagree on this ... and Barry Bonds ]...
just because a person continues to follow their dream(s), no matter the discipline, it doesn't mean that they DON'T know or understand the reality of it all, or that they don't understand the small chance for success. I can assure everybody here that my husband and I have had many a conversation with our son on the reality of making it to the show. But I think "we" sell the kids/people short who are still out there trying to make it work for them. If they were to all quit, there might be a heck of a lot more people out there ... baseball or otherwise ... that will sit around for years to come and wonder 'what if'. We have several friends and relatives who are wondering that very thing now ...

We just watched "The Rookie" the other day and altho we realize that it is very rare indeed for success stories like that, it made my husband and I both realize how important it is for young people to have dreams and to not quit the search. Isn't it be better for these players to be searching BEFORE they have additional responsibilities like families (rather than stretch things like the Rookie did)?

But no matter what the decision, it belongs to that person and his/her immediate family and I am not sure any of us are in a position to suggest what they should or should not do. I believe the good Lord will make it evident early enough for the person to get on to another future, and if they can't see it, so be it. It is their life.

As I told FrankF one time ... we know that all baseball players will one day hang up their cleats ... and it is my hope that all of our sons will do that only after setting the record for being the oldest player in MLB history.