Good thing they vote on these before the playoffs. I hope Beckett's World Series ring helps eleviate the disappointment. Not my choice. I would have voted for Beckett.
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no way becket schould have won. almost every stat was the same between the two, except innings pitched. sabathia threw 240 innings beckett only 200.
quote:Originally posted by Rock 44:
no way becket schould have won. almost every stat was the same between the two, except innings pitched. sabathia threw 240 innings beckett only 200.
Are you sure? Do wins count?
I see it a little differently. With the exception of innings, they both had similarly excellent years. WHIP is an identical 1.14. Becket had more K's per 9 innings by a little and lower batting average against. Congrats to both.
congrats to CC, my vote would have gone to Beckett as well - thanks for the comparison
tried to find my CC prediction in a recent alcs discussion, but alas (sigh
) ... the discussion must have been deemed offensive and has been censored/deleted
tried also to find & quote stats someone used in an earlier CC/Beckett comparison (sigh again) ... that topic must have been too radical as well and was also censored/deleted ...
... and the minor league pay topic continues ...
tried to find my CC prediction in a recent alcs discussion, but alas (sigh
) ... the discussion must have been deemed offensive and has been censored/deletedtried also to find & quote stats someone used in an earlier CC/Beckett comparison (sigh again
) ... that topic must have been too radical as well and was also censored/deleted ... ... and the minor league pay topic continues ...
Sorry, Beckett was robbed.
I see winning 20 as the tie breaker. But I'll guess Beckett isn't unhappy with the way the season went. Beckett holds the unofficial title of "Most Dominant Postseason Pitcher."
You all really think Beckett's regular season was better than Sabathia's to the point that he was "robbed"? I strongly disagree, but that's just my opinion. To me it is impossible to ignore the additional innings for Sabathia while putting up comparable numbers to Beckett. I just hope nobody makes the 20 wins argument.
Well nevermind about that....
It's one win, something that is largely out of Beckett or Sabathia's control. However, Sabathia threw 20% more innings than Beckett at a comparable level of performance. To me, the innings are the tie breaker and it seems pretty obvious. Again, just my opinion.
It's one win, something that is largely out of Beckett or Sabathia's control. However, Sabathia threw 20% more innings than Beckett at a comparable level of performance. To me, the innings are the tie breaker and it seems pretty obvious. Again, just my opinion.
Never confuse activity with results. Innings are activity. Joe Blanton was second in innings pitched. Wins are results. Twenty wins has always been a landmark, like hitting .300.
I am sure CC would trade trophies with Beckett
More innings and a lower Era should count for something, I don't think the people that decide this are stupid.
There were four players capable of impacting the vote. I don't know how much credit we want to give sportwriters (ever look at football polls closely), but either result was possible.quote:Originally posted by Innocent Bystander:
More innings and a lower Era should count for something, I don't think the people that decide this are stupid.
quote:Originally posted by Innocent Bystander:
More innings and a lower Era should count for something, I don't think the people that decide this are stupid.
More wins in 4 less starts is an indication of the regular season dominance by Beckett. If the Red Sox had a better regular season record, I would give CC the nod, but they didn't.
Bee>, you have been a little out of control. jk
More innings and a lower Era should add up to more wins all things being equal, a little bad luck and poor run support can make a difference in # of wins, obviously Beckett was much better in the playoffs but I'm cool with a lower Era in more innings. 
So this has come down to statistics.
Who had the better ERA ? CC
Which team had the higher BA ? Boston
Which team had a better defense? Boston
Better ERA? Carmona-Sabathia-Beckett
They would trade trophies?
Why be greedy?
Who had the better ERA ? CC
Which team had the higher BA ? Boston
Which team had a better defense? Boston
Better ERA? Carmona-Sabathia-Beckett
They would trade trophies?
Why be greedy?
Just making an argument. I would submit Beckett's stats are much closer than the voting, which overwhelmingly went to CC. The identical 1.14 WHIP tells the real story. Stat geeks know WHIP is the overall indicator of performance. IP closed the deal for CC. He was the horse.
Who cares?
Move on?
Congrats on the WS trophy
Move on?
Congrats on the WS trophy
quote:Originally posted by OLDSLUGGER8:
Who cares?
Move on?
Congrats on the WS trophy
You posted because......you don't care, I guess.
quote:Originally posted by Dad04:quote:Originally posted by OLDSLUGGER8:
Who cares?
Move on?
Congrats on the WS trophy
You posted because......you don't care, I guess.
Listen.............Be happy your team had a great season..........you want the whole fish and the leftover rats from the Gaaahden, then call Bud Selig, the sportswriters or the voters and voice a complaint.
Most Cleveland sports fans don't give a crapola about individual awards, they just want a Title, and not in s.o.c.c.e.r
Umm, just to catch you up, the CYA voting is done prior to the playoffs. The Cy and the playoffs are not actually related. Sorry to offend with my interpretation of the regular season.
I seriously doubt The Red Sox give a flying flip what "Most Cleveland sports fans don't give a crapola about".
I seriously doubt The Red Sox give a flying flip what "Most Cleveland sports fans don't give a crapola about".
C.C. had a great season,as did Josh
JB got the most important thing a RING
JB got the most important thing a RING
Too bad ,JB already has a ring.
Pitchers covet the CYA. It is so hard to achieve.
He'll get over it, but are you sure 2 rings would make him feel better.
Pitchers covet the CYA. It is so hard to achieve.
He'll get over it, but are you sure 2 rings would make him feel better.
I know the voting rules............if folks here didn't think I had the diligence to know that, then whooops!!
I know baseball enough to see when a pitcher is reluctant to throw it into the zone, and as frustrating as that is for fans, there obviously is a reason. Thats the part we don't know. I accpet that, but I also know that walks are the worst thing a pitcher can do, IMO
Congrats to the RS, JB is a great pitcher, CC is a great pitcher.
If I was playing, I would rather be part of a WS champ team. Did I say TEAM??
I know baseball enough to see when a pitcher is reluctant to throw it into the zone, and as frustrating as that is for fans, there obviously is a reason. Thats the part we don't know. I accpet that, but I also know that walks are the worst thing a pitcher can do, IMO
Congrats to the RS, JB is a great pitcher, CC is a great pitcher.
If I was playing, I would rather be part of a WS champ team. Did I say TEAM??
quote:Originally posted by RJM:
Never confuse activity with results. Innings are activity. Joe Blanton was second in innings pitched. Wins are results. Twenty wins has always been a landmark, like hitting .300.
Deal- but you're not allowed to confuse team achievements with personal performance. Deal?
Why don't you post the stats comparison between Lackey and Sabbathia? I'd say either Lackey or Carmona had the best regular season.
No question that when you add in the post season Beckett had the best year.
No question that when you add in the post season Beckett had the best year.
TPM,
CYA is big everywhere...Oh you meant Cy Young Award! My bad.
CYA is big everywhere...Oh you meant Cy Young Award! My bad.
I like Beckett a lot, but CC had 4 complete games to Beckett's 1. I think they made a good decision.
quote:Originally posted by CADad:
Why don't you post the stats comparison between Lackey and Sabbathia? I'd say either Lackey or Carmona had the best regular season.
No question that when you add in the post season Beckett had the best year.
I think you could make great arguments for Carmona and Lackey, as well. In fact, I think you could make better arguments for those two than you could for Beckett. But that's just my opinion, what do I know
In the words of Herm Edwards "you play to win the game." Wins are most important, Beckett had the most, he should win.
quote:Originally posted by deldad:
In the words of Herm Edwards "you play to win the game." Wins are most important, Beckett had the most, he should win.
You don't find that to be a terribly simplistic argument? Take a look at the lines below and tell me which pitcher you'd rather have:
W L ERA G GS CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB SO
17 12 4.76 31 31 0 0 189 191 104 100 22 64 110
16 7 3.71 31 31 7 1 225.1 232 101 93 15 48 139
15 13 3.33 33 33 1 1 219 183 88 81 33 52 235
It's not coming out exactly right, but I think it's close enough to prove the point.
just guessing here but wakefield is number one, webb is number three, not sure about number two. An argument can be made for wakefield and obviously the red sox love him because he keeps a job. I just like 20 game winners to get the Cy. Kind of a prerequisite. If nobody wins 20 maybe they shouldn't give the award that year. Way to radical I know. I also like beckett better.
quote:Originally posted by deldad:
just guessing here but wakefield is number one, webb is number three, not sure about number two. An argument can be made for wakefield and obviously the red sox love him because he keeps a job. I just like 20 game winners to get the Cy. Kind of a prerequisite. If nobody wins 20 maybe they shouldn't give the award that year. Way to radical I know. I also like beckett better.
Fair enough. I kept it to AL to avoid the league differences. It's Wakefield, Halladay, and Santana.
I also believe winning twenty is so special it should be the first cut for the award. However, since it's only my opinion (and deldad) here's a graphic from the Boston Globe comparing the two pitchers.
Three real good ones. Tough to argue against Halladay and Santana. Wakefield's year was suprising. If I am starting a team I take Halladay or Santana, but in the snapshot of a single season. Great examples makes for some serious thought.