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Coach tells the recruit “I will give you X as an athletic scholarship for the first year” and makes no mention of years 2, 3 and 4.

It’s pretty safe to assume that the offer only applies to the freshman year.

But, what about after the first year?  Suppose that you play very well as a freshman.  Do you ask the coach at the end of the year if there’s any athletic scholarship money for you as a sophomore?  Or, do you say nothing and just hope that he approaches you and offers something?

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@Francis7 posted:

Coach tells the recruit “I will give you X as an athletic scholarship for the first year” and makes no mention of years 2, 3 and 4.

It’s pretty safe to assume that the offer only applies to the freshman year.

But, what about after the first year?  Suppose that you play very well as a freshman.  Do you ask the coach at the end of the year if there’s any athletic scholarship money for you as a sophomore?  Or, do you say nothing and just hope that he approaches you and offers something?

"Thank you Coach, but what about sophmore, junior and senior year?"

You have just let the coach know that you will play for nothing.

You do not accept an offer unless you fully understand the terms of the contract.

For the vast majority of teams, the coaching staff and player have a post-season meeting where things are lined out and the player receives their offer for the next year.  If you don't have anything in writing, and most players/parents will not have anything in writing, that meeting determines so much.  For my child, I would say that her teammates that did not get much playing time saw their money reduced.  Conversely, some had small or very small increases or that was the impression from parent complaints.  I can't think of any player that received a big jump in money.  Keep in mind that parents talk about this stuff but you can't really know if you are hearing the truth.  BTW, it is funny to hear how all of these players have "full rides" and then, listen to the parents complain that their child didn't get a large enough increase in their athletic scholarship.  LOL

It is funny how many full rides you hear about, especially from friends and family who don't really understand the process. My favorite is all the kids that get full rides to Ivy League. There are many creative ways for schools to reduce your overall cost to attend. I think you should think of scholarships or merit not as awards, they don't give you anything, they just allow you to pay less. I found this video with Tulane RC very interesting when it comes to how very high cost schools think about the financials in the recruiting process.  He also talks about his process at other schools. Great view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0K7XfknDBU

Our head coach made our son his offer standing outside the field during a camp. He then had the recruiting coach call me so I could ask any questions that we had — and since we were so excited and overwhelmed, we had lots. He told us what to plan on for four years, but then the next year arranged another call to tweak the deal — a lot more money one year, somewhat less the two after that. It worked better for them and was fine with us. I've been very impressed with the communication. I also think that successful coaches make sure that happens — I can't imagine that messing with people's money adds to a program's reputation.

@everypitch posted:

It is funny how many full rides you hear about, especially from friends and family who don't really understand the process. My favorite is all the kids that get full rides to Ivy League. There are many creative ways for schools to reduce your overall cost to attend. I think you should think of scholarships or merit not as awards, they don't give you anything, they just allow you to pay less. I found this video with Tulane RC very interesting when it comes to how very high cost schools think about the financials in the recruiting process.  He also talks about his process at other schools. Great view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0K7XfknDBU

You should check out all of the quarantine coach videos on Josh Rudd's channel.

Of course the coach is giving the player something. Its a chance to be a part of his team, whether he awards you a scholarship or not. That's for the player and his family to decide.

JMO

The offer my son accepted was first presented via text.  Zero specifics.  Something along the lines of "I'm officially offering you to come play ball with us.  Let's get you down for a visit in the next 2 weeks."  At the conclusion of our campus visit, his offer was presented in writing and it was for the 2021-2022 school year.  My son is a 2021 and he's heading to a JUCO this fall.  There was no mention of year 2 and I was perfectly fine with that.  Their offer was generous and I would have felt uncomfortable asking about year 2 when my son hadn't even committed to year 1.  To each their own, but I figure anything after year 1 needs to be earned once on campus.  Pushing for anything more than that comes off as entitled from my point of view.  My kid's a pretty good ball player, but in no way is he "blessing" any baseball program with his talents.  It's symbiotic relationship and not all relationships last or should.  Let's take a reasonable sample size and then revisit the relationship's future value.

I am friends with the parents of one of my son's peers and we were talking about the offers he had received.  There was one D2 school that verbally offered their son but they hadn't visited yet or gotten the offer's specifics.  One of the parents said to me "based on the other offers he's gotten, they better bring it."  I about puked in my mouth.

@DanJ posted:

The offer my son accepted was first presented via text.  Zero specifics.  Something along the lines of "I'm officially offering you to come play ball with us.  Let's get you down for a visit in the next 2 weeks."  At the conclusion of our campus visit, his offer was presented in writing and it was for the 2021-2022 school year.  My son is a 2021 and he's heading to a JUCO this fall.  There was no mention of year 2 and I was perfectly fine with that.  Their offer was generous and I would have felt uncomfortable asking about year 2 when my son hadn't even committed to year 1.  To each their own, but I figure anything after year 1 needs to be earned once on campus.  Pushing for anything more than that comes off as entitled from my point of view.  My kid's a pretty good ball player, but in no way is he "blessing" any baseball program with his talents.  It's symbiotic relationship and not all relationships last or should.  Let's take a reasonable sample size and then revisit the relationship's future value.

I am friends with the parents of one of my son's peers and we were talking about the offers he had received.  There was one D2 school that verbally offered their son but they hadn't visited yet or gotten the offer's specifics.  One of the parents said to me "based on the other offers he's gotten, they better bring it."  I about puked in my mouth.

In 2014, I had a similar circumstance.   Son was a dual player, a well known JUCO in the Northeast offered very good $$$ for him to pitch.

The problem was their training program did not measure up to what he was use to do in order to get prepared for the season.  Too much weightlifting, especially putting pressure on the scaps.

Their training methods and lack of qualified trainers resulted in a injury before the season started.  They thought he was faking it, one day he would be at 92, then next day he could throw.

They wanted him to get a cortisone shot so that he could throw down at Myrtle Beach.

I had to shut him down, take him to our Personal Trainer so that we can get a accurate evaluation.

Met with Dr. Craig Morgan (did Kurt Schilling shoulder), who diagnosed it was a SLAP Tear.

Found out there was another player with a similar injury. And a player in 2013, also had arm issues.



My point,  do your homework.  Scholarship $$$ isn't everything.

One year can change a career path.

Last edited by CollegebaseballInsights

I concur with the remarks it will depend on the school and coach.  Son (D1) was presented his offer based on his freshman year.  HC let it be known that each year will depend on son's adaptation and results, can either increase, decrease, or remain the same.  End of every season each player had a private evaluation with the coaches and it was then presented the following year's scholarship.  Fortunately for son every year it was increased.  Son did mention some players were decreased to adjust for those who increased.  Had 2 other relatives:  P5 - first 2 years guaranteed, rest "we will re-evaluate", D2 - nothing fresh/soph, scholarships the rest (had academic all 4 years).  Thus the scholarship offers can vary and be creative.  Best of luck on his journey.

Frans son is not going to a P5, where offers are different than D2, JUCO or mid D1 programs.

I am in agreement with IOWAMOMs last statement. Coaches need to be straight up with the recruit and family  If he is offering 1 year, he should be laying out the expectations for the following years.  By not saying anything, he now knows  he can manipulate the situation, which means before you sign on the dotted line, things might change.  You as parents have a right to know what the next 2 or 4 years will cost you.

I concur with TPM - you should know what the offer is and what costs to expect before committing to spending whatever amount remains.  When my son was made an offer (non-P5 D1), the coach described the scholarship in terms of the 1st year.  So I asked what happens in years 2-4 and he told me that the scholarship amount would be the same in those years.  Then I asked how many players graduate in 4 years.  His answer was "Not many, so if your son needs 5 years to graduate I'll pay for that too".

My reason for asking was not to negotiate, but to clarify and understand what we might be getting into.  I don't think it came across as pushy or entitled at all.  But then again, I think it is foolish to order the restaurant special without knowing it's price.

@Smitty28 posted:

So I asked what happens in years 2-4 and he told me that the scholarship amount would be the same in those years.  Then I asked how many players graduate in 4 years.  His answer was "Not many, so if your son needs 5 years to graduate I'll pay for that too".

I have zero perspective on how all of this works - that's one of the reasons why I view this forum. My question to @Smitty28 would be - How can a coach state the scholarship amount would remain the same in years 2-4 (or 5 if needed, as you mentioned)? I was under the impression that scholarship $$ needed to be earned every year.

@johnlanza posted:

I have zero perspective on how all of this works - that's one of the reasons why I view this forum. My question to @Smitty28 would be - How can a coach state the scholarship amount would remain the same in years 2-4 (or 5 if needed, as you mentioned)? I was under the impression that scholarship $$ needed to be earned every year.

College scholarships in most programs are renewable every year. If the player has done all that is required on and off the field, and if the coach has indicated so, there is no issue.

Unfortunetly, many programs over recruit, so I think that is why that 1 year deal has become popular. 

Many times the recruit and his family are so happy to find a home, they are afraid to ask questions. Some coaches wont make that commitment but you have a right to ask questions and decide if that's acceptable or not.

Also, many coaches will not give out 5th year unless player was injured. Discuss that during recruiting.

@johnlanza posted:

I have zero perspective on how all of this works - that's one of the reasons why I view this forum. My question to @Smitty28 would be - How can a coach state the scholarship amount would remain the same in years 2-4 (or 5 if needed, as you mentioned)? I was under the impression that scholarship $$ needed to be earned every year.

I took the coaches comments to mean that if my son did his job and met expectations the coach would renew the scholarship each year.  Did I consider this an iron-clad guarantee?  No, I did not.  But I checked the coaches reputation and was told he was a good man and was true to his word.  This is really all you have at the end of this process.  You either trust the coach or you don't.

@Smitty28 posted:

I took the coaches comments to mean that if my son did his job and met expectations the coach would renew the scholarship each year.  Did I consider this an iron-clad guarantee?  No, I did not.  But I checked the coaches reputation and was told he was a good man and was true to his word.  This is really all you have at the end of this process.  You either trust the coach or you don't.

IMHO, trust but verify the coaches roster management strategy for the last 3 to 4 years.

I wonder how Covid 's impact on income will hurt next years scholarships.   Do coaches spend it to keep returning players or use it to bring in freshmen or transfers?   With less money coming in, budgets have to be trimmed.  Reduce travel schedule expenses by playing closer.   Cut sports with less donor impact.  drop number of scholarships funded?   Etc.   Obviously nothing we can control  or even predict because this is unprecedented.

@bandera posted:

I wonder how Covid 's impact on income will hurt next years scholarships.   Do coaches spend it to keep returning players or use it to bring in freshmen or transfers?   With less money coming in, budgets have to be trimmed.  Reduce travel schedule expenses by playing closer.   Cut sports with less donor impact.  drop number of scholarships funded?   Etc.   Obviously nothing we can control  or even predict because this is unprecedented.

Interesting point...my understanding is that scholarship money going to "Covid Seniors" does not count against a team's allotment, but that next year the total goes back down to 27?  And to the point above, maybe some schools will fund fewer based on lower sports revenue overall?

From D1Baseball:

Here are the details of the extended waiver:

For starters, while teams have the luxury of unlimited rosters for the 2021 season, that will change for the 2022 campaign. In a normal season, teams are allowed to have just 35 players on an active roster. And while it is unlimited for the upcoming campaign, that number will shift to 40 in 2022, a five-person increase from a normal season.

A majority of coaches will enjoy this move. In a survey initiated by the ABCA earlier this fall, 58.3% of coaches voted in favor of a 40-man roster in 2022.

The roster counters are just an extension of the current rule. Previously, 27 players were allowed on scholarship, with that number increasing to 32 for the 2021 season. That number will stay at 32 for the 2022 season. Unlike the roster management part of the ABCA’s proposal, the idea of staying at 32 counters did not receive majority support in the ABCA’s survey, with the percentage falling just short of 50% at 49.7%.

The final prong of the committee’s blanket waiver deals with the 25% rule. For a second-straight season, the NCAA will not require programs to give student athletes 25% of a scholarship in 2022. This is a much more contentious debate amongst college baseball coaches when it comes to the long-term application of the rule. But for now, 53% of coaches surveyed told the ABCA they preferred to have the 25% rule eliminated for the 2022 season. It’s worth noting that should coaches want a long-term elimination of this rule, it would need to be in the form of a legislative amendment, not the waiver process, which is being applied here. The NCAA’s legislative cycle is on hold until January.

There are some rules attached to the elimination of the 25% rule.

For instance, for the 2021 season, if a student athlete is on a multi-year financial aid agreement, schools may provide less than 25% equivalency as long as a school ensures that the total amount of aid provided over a period of the new amended agreement is equal to or greater than the total provided in the student-athlete’s original agreement. For a player in a one-year agreement, the program must provide a scholarship amount that equals the average of 25% and the revised amount. The same rules will apply for multi-year agreements in 2022, with the one-year agreements being slightly different. Heading into the 2022-2023 academic year, the program must provide 25% of a scholarship, or the average between 25% and the aid received in 2021-2022.

With baseball receiving additional roster and scholarship relief, the attention now turns to the NCAA and its decision on how the 2020 campaign will process. There are rumblings that the season could be pushed back to March, among other changes.

For now, though, more relief is on the way, and that’s a great development.

@K9 posted:

Interesting point...my understanding is that scholarship money going to "Covid Seniors" does not count against a team's allotment, but that next year the total goes back down to 27?  And to the point above, maybe some schools will fund fewer based on lower sports revenue overall?

There will be more clarity once the EADA data is made public.

E.g this is Clemson's athletic budget for 2019, thus we understand the $$$ comes from football.



image[25)



Clemson's baseball budget from 2010 - 2019



image[24)



Due to delays, the 2020 Survey closed later (Dec 31) than normal.

Note, in most cases you can look at the report on the schools website.

e.g. Clemson

https://clemsontigers.com/wp-c...2020-EADA-Survey.pdf

Baseball budget for 2020 was 2.8m.

One might conclude the importance of school playing football this year.  Television money.

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@baseballhs posted:

From D1Baseball:

Here are the details of the extended waiver:

For starters, while teams have the luxury of unlimited rosters for the 2021 season, that will change for the 2022 campaign. In a normal season, teams are allowed to have just 35 players on an active roster. And while it is unlimited for the upcoming campaign, that number will shift to 40 in 2022, a five-person increase from a normal season.

A majority of coaches will enjoy this move. In a survey initiated by the ABCA earlier this fall, 58.3% of coaches voted in favor of a 40-man roster in 2022.

The roster counters are just an extension of the current rule. Previously, 27 players were allowed on scholarship, with that number increasing to 32 for the 2021 season. That number will stay at 32 for the 2022 season. Unlike the roster management part of the ABCA’s proposal, the idea of staying at 32 counters did not receive majority support in the ABCA’s survey, with the percentage falling just short of 50% at 49.7%.

The final prong of the committee’s blanket waiver deals with the 25% rule. For a second-straight season, the NCAA will not require programs to give student athletes 25% of a scholarship in 2022. This is a much more contentious debate amongst college baseball coaches when it comes to the long-term application of the rule. But for now, 53% of coaches surveyed told the ABCA they preferred to have the 25% rule eliminated for the 2022 season. It’s worth noting that should coaches want a long-term elimination of this rule, it would need to be in the form of a legislative amendment, not the waiver process, which is being applied here. The NCAA’s legislative cycle is on hold until January.

There are some rules attached to the elimination of the 25% rule.

For instance, for the 2021 season, if a student athlete is on a multi-year financial aid agreement, schools may provide less than 25% equivalency as long as a school ensures that the total amount of aid provided over a period of the new amended agreement is equal to or greater than the total provided in the student-athlete’s original agreement. For a player in a one-year agreement, the program must provide a scholarship amount that equals the average of 25% and the revised amount. The same rules will apply for multi-year agreements in 2022, with the one-year agreements being slightly different. Heading into the 2022-2023 academic year, the program must provide 25% of a scholarship, or the average between 25% and the aid received in 2021-2022.

With baseball receiving additional roster and scholarship relief, the attention now turns to the NCAA and its decision on how the 2020 campaign will process. There are rumblings that the season could be pushed back to March, among other changes.

For now, though, more relief is on the way, and that’s a great development.

We've imported the 2021 rosters, you can use the following link to see the impact of covid on NCAA-D1 rosters https://collegebaseballinsights.com/insights/

@everypitch posted:

It is funny how many full rides you hear about, especially from friends and family who don't really understand the process. My favorite is all the kids that get full rides to Ivy League. There are many creative ways for schools to reduce your overall cost to attend. I think you should think of scholarships or merit not as awards, they don't give you anything, they just allow you to pay less. I found this video with Tulane RC very interesting when it comes to how very high cost schools think about the financials in the recruiting process.  He also talks about his process at other schools. Great view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0K7XfknDBU

You'd probably be surprised how many Ivy full-rides there are out there--probably many more in football and basketball but maybe some baseball kids. A kid whose family makes 85K or less annually probably gets 100% need-based financial aid (scholarship). Much better $$$ than he would receive anywhere else.

@everypitch posted:

I 100% understand that Ivy's can put together amazing financial aid packages. They are some of the wealthiest schools in the world. My point was they are not athletic scholarships. If your family makes less than 85k annually and you can get into the school, you would get the same package.

Typically, as an athlete, getting IN to the school IS your scholarship!!!

So if a family says "my kid is getting a full-ride to an Ivy", don't just discount it. I would venture to say it is probably closer to the truth than a family saying their kid has a full-ride to any other D1 school!

Of course they may not play at all because their season was cancelled...

@ABSORBER posted:

Typically, as an athlete, getting IN to the school IS your scholarship!!!

So if a family says "my kid is getting a full-ride to an Ivy", don't just discount it. I would venture to say it is probably closer to the truth than a family saying their kid has a full-ride to any other D1 school!

Of course they may not play at all because their season was cancelled...

Maybe it's just a thing here in Southern California, but many parents are reluctant to admit they qualified for financial aid and go to great lengths to convince others that the Ivy money was due to their son's athletic prowess.  I've heard many times over the years how a kid got an "athletic scholarship to Harvard (or Yale, etc)", and no amount of discussion would move these people off this position.

@Smitty28 posted:

Maybe it's just a thing here in Southern California, but many parents are reluctant to admit they qualified for financial aid and go to great lengths to convince others that the Ivy money was due to their son's athletic prowess.  I've heard many times over the years how a kid got an "athletic scholarship to Harvard (or Yale, etc)", and no amount of discussion would move these people off this position.

It's not a SoCal thing, I'm from New England and hear the same stories.  It seems like every year there is also a story in the paper about a kid who was so smart and so academically talented that he/she got a "full scholarship" offer to one or many Ivies. 

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