obrady, I think the bases would have been loaded if not for the error on the catcher...if so it is a simple force out. You have to play this out as if there were no error.
Fungo is on the right track. One more piece to the puzzle. The scorer would have to make the judgment on the errant pick-off attempt by the catcher. If the throw was not errant--was it in time to get the runner out? If the throw would have gotten the runner out--then 1 earned run, because when you play out the inning that way--only one run would have scored. If the throw was not in time--3 earned runs, because playing out the inning results in 3 runs--as Fungo points out.
quote:Originally posted by obrady:
Simple, the rules say it isn't an error.
Somewhere along the line that's how someone defined it.
http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/foreword.jsp
Yep, that is the way the rule reads. It is not an error if it is a WP or a PB. So what it boils down to is any pitch that the catcher doesn't handle is either a WP or PB. It seems that it is never an E2.
Hmm, I learned something today. I have been doing it wrong for years.
Hakko936,
To make it more complicated the WP and PB figure in differently when calculating earned runs. While neither are errors, the pitcher is held accountable for his mistakes (The WB) but isn't held accountable for the catcher's mistakes (the PB).
To make it more complicated the WP and PB figure in differently when calculating earned runs. While neither are errors, the pitcher is held accountable for his mistakes (The WB) but isn't held accountable for the catcher's mistakes (the PB).
I agree with Fungo...I don't think it would be 3 earned runs. Reconstruct the inning without the errors/mistakes. If no WP on the second batter, then we have two outs....this means when the Firstbaseman makes the unassisted play, no more runs would have scored; it would have been the third out. 2 earned runs....
But I also believe its correct that you have to look at the Catchers error play. If it was a pickoff that would not have obviously got someone out, you have to treat it differently than when the guy was hung out to dry and the Catcher threw it away.
But I also believe its correct that you have to look at the Catchers error play. If it was a pickoff that would not have obviously got someone out, you have to treat it differently than when the guy was hung out to dry and the Catcher threw it away.
Ah yes but...
If I understand it, you cannot assume that the force play at home would be made, you have to take the play that was made, a tag at first.
Maybe it's just up to the scorekeeper to decide this one based on his (my) perspective.
If I understand it, you cannot assume that the force play at home would be made, you have to take the play that was made, a tag at first.
Maybe it's just up to the scorekeeper to decide this one based on his (my) perspective.