Scout teams playing on a college campus now an NCAA violation?

I noticed that one of my son's friends had their game switched from a local college to a high school this weekend. We have a player/parent meeting this evening for my son's team, maybe the scout-coach will have some information on this?

That is interesting, my son is planning on going to recruit at USC this weekend, to check out a scout team's games.

There are rules against having "skills" events (running 60's, etc.) at DI four year schools, so programs that do things like showcases have skills events at JC's or high schools and have the games at the four year schools.

If you get more info, that would be interesting.

Thanks BOF on confirming what I'm hearing. It's too bad when you try to send out a warning, and all you get back is that you don't know what you are talking about. Thanks again.

quote:

Originally posted by CELTDAD:
Thanks BOF on confirming what I'm hearing. It's too bad when you try to send out a warning, and all you get back is that you don't know what you are talking about. Thanks again.

Wow, did someone get off the wrong side of the bed?

I did not say BOF did not know what he was saying, I actually called my son to give him a heads up and he was going to check with the scout to confirm where their game was going to be at before heading out.

One weekend he drove to Pepperdine (Malibu) just to find out the game had been moved to LA Southwest College (Compton), some 50 miles away. He was not happy coming from San Diego and having passed right by LA Southwest College to get to Pepperdine.

My response was not to the responses on this thread, but to the northeast thread responses. Sorry if it was misunderstood. BOF was on that thread also trying to give a heads up, thats all. No worries.

This just came up so I am not sure what is going on. I will drop and email to my son's team manager and ask him whats up. If it is indeed the NCAA....it just confirms what I think about them.
N ational C ommittee A gainst A thletes.

Son just played a scout game at a 4 year school. No discussion of moving future games.

PG recently moved a showcase from Sac State to Banner Island Ball Park Park. Related?

is it possible that this is a West Coast thing?

Maybe TR, or maybe not uniformly enforced, or maybe its someone's misunderstanding. It is being forced on West Coast scout teams right now and like I posted earlier I have an email out to my son’s scout team manager asking him why.

What if you are not a "scout" team but just a travel showcase team such as we have?

I just got a short message back from him it said that the "NCAA has come down on scout teams playing at college campuses" How this is enforced, what they consider a scout team is anyone's guess. I guess you can call some of you college coach contacts to find out. Sounds like a load of c r a p to me.

Scout teams are lead by professionals in pro ball, the NCAA can't have anything like that, it would go against all that they stand for.

The basic rule for D1 regards tryouts, and I believe that there have been no recent changes to the rules.
The general statement is that A member institution, on its campus or elsewhere, shall not conduct (or have conducted on its behalf) any physical activity (e.g., practice session or test/tryout) at which one or more prospective student-athletes (as defined in Bylaws 13.11.1.1 and 13.11.1.2) reveal, demonstrate or display their athletics abilities in any sport except as provided in Bylaws 13.11.2 and 13.11.3.
Of course there are exceptions, and in this case the exceptions are somewhat conflicting.
The exception that (I suppose) most colleges would use to permit scout games is:

13.11.3.2 Activities Not Involving Institution’s Staff. The use of a member institution’s facilities for physical activities by a group that includes prospective student-athletes shall not be considered a tryout, provided the institution’s athletics department staff members or representatives of its athletics interests are not involved in the conduct, promotion or administration of the activity (other than activities incidental to supervising the use of the facilities) and are subject to all applicable NCAA recruiting legislation (see Bylaw 13.11.1.5). (13.11.1.5 applies to basketball.)

However, there is another exception (13.11.3.5) which specifically addresses High School, Preparatory-School and Two-Year College Practice and Competition. Perhaps either the NCAA or a school's compliance officer may have decided that "activities" don't include practice and competition (reasoning that otherwise 13.11.3.5 wouldn't be necessary). Since scout teams aren't mentioned, then one could conclude (although I wouldn't) that games between scout teams aren't allowed.
There is a proposal to modify 13.11.3.5 that recognizes that the current rule is very difficult to monitor, and/or to demonstrate compliance. The rule currently also doesn't consider the differences between individual and team sports. The proposal is in the early stages of consideration, but would IMO have the effect of liberalizing the existing rule.

My opinion is the blanket rule (13.11) is against (paraphrasing) physical activity at which a prospective student-athletes reveals, demonstrates or displays his athletics abilities. 13.11.3.5 is an exception which allows activities under restrictions which scout teams could comply with. So I think somebody has gotten over-zealous. Perhaps the NCAA has issued some sort of "clarification" or "guidance."

Note that none of these rules affect a player's eligibility-- it wouild be an institutional violation.

Thanks 3FG, this happened on Weds. We were notified that the games were being moved. Our scout manager will probably only know that he was told that we could not play there by the coaching staff. I guess we will have to wait and see if this is a local interpretation, or something broader. If I see a college coach this weekend I will ask him what happened.

I was told, by a D1 head coach, that it is a new interpretation by the NCAA. He had a scout team game scheduled for this afternoon, and they cancelled it just a couple days ago. No more fall scout team games can be played at NCAA facilities.

More stupidity from the NCAA, in more ways than one.

Games were played at several D1 schools this weekend here in NC. So maybe this is being interpeted differently by coaches.

Or maybe there is a difference in a "scout team" and a "showcase team." Is a scout team just a different name for a showcase team? Around here we don't hear that term for teams.

From what I am hearing about the scout teams moving their games, it is no DI NCAA schools, but they can be held at DII and DIII NCAA schools, NAIA, and JC's.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
Games were played at several D1 schools this weekend here in NC. So maybe this is being interpeted differently by coaches.

Or maybe there is a difference in a "scout team" and a "showcase team." Is a scout team just a different name for a showcase team? Around here we don't hear that term for teams.

I'm with you coach...can someone define a "scout" team?

Out here on the West Coast (So Cal at least) these are fall teams run by Major League baseball scouts. There are tyouts to make the team and the rosters are typically the top kids from an area. Scout ball runs from Labor Day to early November. The games are showcase format 3 outs or 5-6 batters, wood bats, and two back to back games usually 7-9 innings each on Sundays. Each pitcher usually pitches one inning. There is usually a pregame workout with full BP prior to games. They are (were) typically held at local college fields...

Travel/showcase are normally year round and their schedules usually wind down in the fall except for the major tournaments. (like PG Nationals next weekend)