I see where Joe Torre just turned down the Yankees offer----Good for you Joe
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I am not a Yankees fan, but Joe Torre has to be considered at the very top as the classiest person in baseball. Huge mistake by the Yankees imho. Ironically, he may have done his best job as manager this year.
All the best to Joe.
All the best to Joe.
Good for you Joe, you didn't deserve any more grief from George.
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
Ironically, he may have done his best job as manager this year.
Yes he did! As a Yankees fan, I'm sorry to hear about this but can't say I blame the guy.
Tough act to follow. I guess they figure they are rebuilding and don't need him to fill out line ups with kids. Katy bar the door. The vets like Rivera and Posada are the next to run away. I might mean more room for all the new righties from Wis-CAN-sin. 
Just to make the playoffs from 14.5 games out of 1st in May in incredible. He deserved a bonus for piecing together a team from the busted parts they gave him. As a Red Sox fan. I wish him well, but in another league.
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
Ironically, he may have done his best job as manager this year.
Just to make the playoffs from 14.5 games out of 1st in May in incredible. He deserved a bonus for piecing together a team from the busted parts they gave him. As a Red Sox fan. I wish him well, but in another league.
Joe Torre shows today a great dignity. The contract that he refused could represent 8 million for next year. He taught "The boss" that money it is not enough to buy a person integrity.
Dang George, may I offer you a towel to wipe the egg from your face.
very classy guy. had a good playing career,and a great coaching record. and i'm sure he's not worried about his next meal. enjoy yourself joe you've earned it.
plus as a red sox fan it will be fun to see which suc pump george finds to drive the bus. this should be good.
plus as a red sox fan it will be fun to see which suc pump george finds to drive the bus. this should be good.
Just a different view. I think this is exactly the result the Yankees wanted. They made a very generous financial offer.
However, they tied it to one year and I am betting knew Joe would not accept that. Firing Torre was going to appear greatly wrong.
This way, Joe is the one who walked away and now they, according to what I have read, aggressively pursue LaRussa. LaRussa, by some reports is quite interested.
However, they tied it to one year and I am betting knew Joe would not accept that. Firing Torre was going to appear greatly wrong.
This way, Joe is the one who walked away and now they, according to what I have read, aggressively pursue LaRussa. LaRussa, by some reports is quite interested.
Joe Torre was never worth $8 million to manage anything.
I think infielddad is right, they let him walk away on his own terms. But that was obvious.
However, IMO, it's time for a change, younger players, younger manager.
Orlando might go nuts if TLR headed to NY?
However, IMO, it's time for a change, younger players, younger manager.
Orlando might go nuts if TLR headed to NY?
TPM,
I think the Yankees going younger encounters a problem similar to the Giants and others. They do not have enough depth of talent in the minor league system with position players to do what has happened with the D'Backs, for instance.
Additionally, the teams with good young talent are signing them to longer term contracts before they get to be arbitration eligible. That keeps the deep pocket/wallet of the NYY away from those players.
In effect, they are competing with teams for the few very high quality free agents each year but, like the Giants, are finding there are not enough to survive over 162 games.
I think the Yankees going younger encounters a problem similar to the Giants and others. They do not have enough depth of talent in the minor league system with position players to do what has happened with the D'Backs, for instance.
Additionally, the teams with good young talent are signing them to longer term contracts before they get to be arbitration eligible. That keeps the deep pocket/wallet of the NYY away from those players.
In effect, they are competing with teams for the few very high quality free agents each year but, like the Giants, are finding there are not enough to survive over 162 games.
I agree Yankees most likely don't have the depth in their farm at this time. But they will use their $$$ for trades and top young players coming up for free agency won't stay on smaller market teams because they can't afford them. The new manager will be some indication of where the are headed.
Josh Beckett is a perfect example, he wasn't going to stay with the Marlins, he wanted to go where the money was. Those that think the signing bonus is the icing on the cake, no way. It's working your way up the ladder to be able to call your own shots.
Josh Beckett is a perfect example, he wasn't going to stay with the Marlins, he wanted to go where the money was. Those that think the signing bonus is the icing on the cake, no way. It's working your way up the ladder to be able to call your own shots.
how bout mike piazza?
TG,
You and I see things a bit differently.
That's it ain't nothing more too it.
You and I see things a bit differently.
That's it ain't nothing more too it.
I'd say the signing bonus is the icing on the cake AT THAT POINT IN TIME.
Once you start working your way up the ladder then the icing on the cake becomes as TPM says to be able to call your own shots.
JMHO...
Once you start working your way up the ladder then the icing on the cake becomes as TPM says to be able to call your own shots.
JMHO...
There's just a few who get to be lucky to get money that is life changing. And everyone has their definition of what life changing money is.
For most, they just want a shot at making high A, then double AA and avoiding AAA
and onto the 40 man, then the 25 man. Then when FA comes around YOU get to choose who you want to play for. That's when you have made it, IMO.
For most, they just want a shot at making high A, then double AA and avoiding AAA
and onto the 40 man, then the 25 man. Then when FA comes around YOU get to choose who you want to play for. That's when you have made it, IMO.
With all the rumors around about George's health, I don't believe it's really known right now how much impact he will have on the next manager.
And if TLR wants to go to NY --- have at it! Tony likes veterans and Tony likes having Dave Duncan along for those rehabiliation projects of veteran arms. If the Yankees court TLR, it'll be the signal that there will be more of the same for the Yanks.
Tony also has a serious ego, and has been enjoying the adoration of the STL media...somehow I don't think he'll be too interested in the kind of scrutiny his moves will get in NY. Of course, the whole pitcher-batting-eighth wouldn't be an issue anymore
.
But his ego has been a problem with some of the Cardinal players; what he doesn't have is Torre's diplomacy, which I think was his strongest quality. I don't reckon Torre as a baseball manager, but I do think he had the perfect personell managing style for the Yankees.
Tony also has zippo ties to NY --- a feature the Yankees have always looked for. His draw over Mattingly would be managerial experience, but Mattingly has 25 years of Yankee organization experience.
And aw shucks, now that the Yankees have missed the boat on Baker, wherever can they turn?
And if TLR wants to go to NY --- have at it! Tony likes veterans and Tony likes having Dave Duncan along for those rehabiliation projects of veteran arms. If the Yankees court TLR, it'll be the signal that there will be more of the same for the Yanks.
Tony also has a serious ego, and has been enjoying the adoration of the STL media...somehow I don't think he'll be too interested in the kind of scrutiny his moves will get in NY. Of course, the whole pitcher-batting-eighth wouldn't be an issue anymore
.But his ego has been a problem with some of the Cardinal players; what he doesn't have is Torre's diplomacy, which I think was his strongest quality. I don't reckon Torre as a baseball manager, but I do think he had the perfect personell managing style for the Yankees.
Tony also has zippo ties to NY --- a feature the Yankees have always looked for. His draw over Mattingly would be managerial experience, but Mattingly has 25 years of Yankee organization experience.
And aw shucks, now that the Yankees have missed the boat on Baker, wherever can they turn?
tg
my point was the guy didn't get a plane ticket as a bonus. and look how far he made it. lots of late rounders make it. maybe not a lot that late ,but that was my point.
when you and your son make it to the point that scouts are looking at him. you'll see things clearer, or differently i think. and most of the time it's not really about money,and that's a fact.
my point was the guy didn't get a plane ticket as a bonus. and look how far he made it. lots of late rounders make it. maybe not a lot that late ,but that was my point.
when you and your son make it to the point that scouts are looking at him. you'll see things clearer, or differently i think. and most of the time it's not really about money,and that's a fact.
As a Red Sox fan, here's to the classiest and toughest opponent mgr I've ever seen. 
A true class act and in my opinion, too good for the Yankee heirarchy.
A true class act and in my opinion, too good for the Yankee heirarchy.
My prediction: Sweet Lou for A-Rod.
Words from Joe Torre:
Torre, who opened his remarks by thanking owner George Steinbrenner "for giving me the opportunity, trusting me with his club the last 12 years," as well as players and coaches, said the Yankees hierarchy would not alter its offer.
"When I expressed my dissatisfaction with the length of contract ... I explained that and the incentives, which I took as an insult," Torre said. "If we hadn't started this run, being in five of the first six World Series, I don't know how to say that one is never enough, or two is never enough. You're constantly driving because you know that's the goal you've set for yourself.
"There really was no negotiating. I was hoping there would be."
The 67-year-old Torre, who has managed in the Major Leagues for 26 seasons, said a negotation might have led to a different result.
The Yankees will never be the same!!!
Torre, who opened his remarks by thanking owner George Steinbrenner "for giving me the opportunity, trusting me with his club the last 12 years," as well as players and coaches, said the Yankees hierarchy would not alter its offer.
"When I expressed my dissatisfaction with the length of contract ... I explained that and the incentives, which I took as an insult," Torre said. "If we hadn't started this run, being in five of the first six World Series, I don't know how to say that one is never enough, or two is never enough. You're constantly driving because you know that's the goal you've set for yourself.
"There really was no negotiating. I was hoping there would be."
The 67-year-old Torre, who has managed in the Major Leagues for 26 seasons, said a negotation might have led to a different result.
The Yankees will never be the same!!!
The Yankees could be headed back to Mel Hall era.
What Joe didn't tell ya:
By MURRAY CHASS
Published: October 25, 2007
Excuse this intrusion on the World Series, Mr. Commissioner, but Mr. Torre
has a credibility problem that we have to deal with before we can move on
to new business, like last night's opening game between the Rockies and the
Red Sox.
Mr. Torre, as Derek Jeter refers to him, has spent the past several days
explaining his decision to reject the contract offer the Yankees made to
allow him to manage them for a 13th season. He held an hourlong news
conference last Friday in Rye Brook, N.Y., and he did an interview with Bob
Costas that first ran on HBO on Tuesday.
Given some of Torre's more pointed answers and comments, it was unfortunate
that neither Costas nor the reporters at the news conference were aware of
Torre's contract history with the Yankees.
With the benefit of details obtained from information on file in the
commissioner's office, we now know that Torre either suffered a lapse of
memory Friday or was counting on his questioners not knowing about some of
his contracts with the Yankees, the last two in particular.
The target of Torre's comments was the offer the Yankees made - one year
with a $5 million salary and a possible $3 million in bonuses: $1 million
each for reaching, not winning, the three postseason levels - division
series, league championship series, World Series.
"I just felt the contract offer, the terms of the contract, were probably
the thing I had the toughest time with," Torre said in response to a
question last Friday. "The one year for one thing, the incentives for
another thing. The fact that I've been there 12 years, I didn't think
motivation was needed."
.
In his interview with Costas, Torre expanded his views of the incentives.
"I don't think incentives are necessary," he said. "I've never needed to be
motivated. Plus, in my contract, I get a million-dollar bonus if we do win
the World Series. So that's always been there. And, you know, as far as
needing incentive to go ahead and win a ballgame, that I thought, I used
the term insulting."
Torre referred to a $1 million bonus for winning the World Series. He
indeed had that in his last two contracts, which covered the last six years
of his employment. In the 2002-4 contract, he was able to earn $200,000 for
winning the division series, $300,000 for winning the league championship
series and $500,000 for winning the World Series.
The 2005-7 contract eliminated the division series bonus but provided
$400,000 for winning the league championship series and $600,000 for
winning the World Series, the bonuses still adding to a maximum $1 million.
Obviously Torre did not object to those bonuses, did not reject them as
insulting. He signed those contracts and readily accepted the incentives
they offered. Even though the Yankees didn't win the World Series in those
six years, Torre earned $700,000 of a possible $3 million in the first
contract but nothing in the second because the Yankees lost the division
series each year.
.
But those were not the only incentives in a Torre contract. In the 2002-4
deal, he had bonuses based on the number of games the Yankees won -
$100,000 each for 90, 94, 98, 102. He earned an additional $1 million of a
possible $1.2 million.
What was that about not needing incentive "to go ahead and win a ballgame"?
That thought insulted Torre? Why, then, did he accept $1 million worth of
insults in those years? And why wasn't he willing to accept a potential $3
million in insults for next season?
Torre did not return telephone messages left on his home answering machine,
so we don't know the answers to those questions.
We also don't know why he was willing to discuss a one-year contract last
spring but not accept one year now.
Yes, Torre was prepared to sign a one-year extension.
Torre went to Steve Swindal, who was then a general partner and a George
Steinbrenner son-in-law in good standing, and General Manager Brian Cashman
and told them he would like to manage the Yankees in the last year at
Yankee Stadium.
Swindal, who had negotiated Torre's existing $20.9 million contract ($6.7
million, $6.7 million, $7.5 million), said that idea was fine with him but
would require Torre to take a pay cut. They were talking about a $4.5
million salary, apparently with no insulting incentives.
Their talks, however, died with Swindal's decline after his D.U.I. arrest
and subsequent divorce from Jennifer Steinbrenner. Cashman discussed the
contract with Steinbrenner, who told him to wait until after the season.
Torre never mentioned those negotiations, nor did he disclose his
profitable contract incentives. Should he have talked about either? Maybe
he had no obligation to unless he was asked about them, but he did have a
responsibility not to make misleading claims about motivation and insult.
By MURRAY CHASS
Published: October 25, 2007
Excuse this intrusion on the World Series, Mr. Commissioner, but Mr. Torre
has a credibility problem that we have to deal with before we can move on
to new business, like last night's opening game between the Rockies and the
Red Sox.
Mr. Torre, as Derek Jeter refers to him, has spent the past several days
explaining his decision to reject the contract offer the Yankees made to
allow him to manage them for a 13th season. He held an hourlong news
conference last Friday in Rye Brook, N.Y., and he did an interview with Bob
Costas that first ran on HBO on Tuesday.
Given some of Torre's more pointed answers and comments, it was unfortunate
that neither Costas nor the reporters at the news conference were aware of
Torre's contract history with the Yankees.
With the benefit of details obtained from information on file in the
commissioner's office, we now know that Torre either suffered a lapse of
memory Friday or was counting on his questioners not knowing about some of
his contracts with the Yankees, the last two in particular.
The target of Torre's comments was the offer the Yankees made - one year
with a $5 million salary and a possible $3 million in bonuses: $1 million
each for reaching, not winning, the three postseason levels - division
series, league championship series, World Series.
"I just felt the contract offer, the terms of the contract, were probably
the thing I had the toughest time with," Torre said in response to a
question last Friday. "The one year for one thing, the incentives for
another thing. The fact that I've been there 12 years, I didn't think
motivation was needed."
.
In his interview with Costas, Torre expanded his views of the incentives.
"I don't think incentives are necessary," he said. "I've never needed to be
motivated. Plus, in my contract, I get a million-dollar bonus if we do win
the World Series. So that's always been there. And, you know, as far as
needing incentive to go ahead and win a ballgame, that I thought, I used
the term insulting."
Torre referred to a $1 million bonus for winning the World Series. He
indeed had that in his last two contracts, which covered the last six years
of his employment. In the 2002-4 contract, he was able to earn $200,000 for
winning the division series, $300,000 for winning the league championship
series and $500,000 for winning the World Series.
The 2005-7 contract eliminated the division series bonus but provided
$400,000 for winning the league championship series and $600,000 for
winning the World Series, the bonuses still adding to a maximum $1 million.
Obviously Torre did not object to those bonuses, did not reject them as
insulting. He signed those contracts and readily accepted the incentives
they offered. Even though the Yankees didn't win the World Series in those
six years, Torre earned $700,000 of a possible $3 million in the first
contract but nothing in the second because the Yankees lost the division
series each year.
.
But those were not the only incentives in a Torre contract. In the 2002-4
deal, he had bonuses based on the number of games the Yankees won -
$100,000 each for 90, 94, 98, 102. He earned an additional $1 million of a
possible $1.2 million.
What was that about not needing incentive "to go ahead and win a ballgame"?
That thought insulted Torre? Why, then, did he accept $1 million worth of
insults in those years? And why wasn't he willing to accept a potential $3
million in insults for next season?
Torre did not return telephone messages left on his home answering machine,
so we don't know the answers to those questions.
We also don't know why he was willing to discuss a one-year contract last
spring but not accept one year now.
Yes, Torre was prepared to sign a one-year extension.
Torre went to Steve Swindal, who was then a general partner and a George
Steinbrenner son-in-law in good standing, and General Manager Brian Cashman
and told them he would like to manage the Yankees in the last year at
Yankee Stadium.
Swindal, who had negotiated Torre's existing $20.9 million contract ($6.7
million, $6.7 million, $7.5 million), said that idea was fine with him but
would require Torre to take a pay cut. They were talking about a $4.5
million salary, apparently with no insulting incentives.
Their talks, however, died with Swindal's decline after his D.U.I. arrest
and subsequent divorce from Jennifer Steinbrenner. Cashman discussed the
contract with Steinbrenner, who told him to wait until after the season.
Torre never mentioned those negotiations, nor did he disclose his
profitable contract incentives. Should he have talked about either? Maybe
he had no obligation to unless he was asked about them, but he did have a
responsibility not to make misleading claims about motivation and insult.