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Several ERA questions

B bballforever10+ posts
1)Runners on the corners via hits or walks, pitcher attempts pickoff of runner on first. If it is a bad throw by the pitcher and gets by the 1B, it is E-1, but does the runner on 3rd that scores count against the pitchers ERA.
2)What if it is an E-3 because the 1B should have made the catch but dropped it and the runner on 3rd scores. Is it any different ERA wise?

I thought I knew the answer to this next question but a scorekeeper from the other team said I was wrong.
3)Bases loaded with the pitcher being responsible for runners. Pitcher hits next batter to bring in a run. Earned run or not? Does it make any difference if the pitcher walked in a run vs HBP?

4) Runners on the corners after a walk. Runner on first decides to take second after arriving on 1st because no one is covering 2nd. Pitcher who has the ball cannot throw to 2nd because no one is covering(or could throw but chooses not to because of runner on 3rd might score). How is that scored for the runner, and is it an error on the MIF? If that runner who is now on 2nd scores on a single or even a double, is that an earned run since he would still be on 1st if not for the MIF's not covering 2nd?

I know that is a lot of questions, but it was a wild game 14-12 in extra innings.
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bballmanbballman10,000+ posts
Here's my take on these situations:

1 & 2) This one really depends on the situation and what happens the rest of the inning. This is an error on either the pitcher or 1st baseman. Either way, it doesn't matter in terms of ERA. If there are no outs when this happens and the pitcher winds up striking all three batters out, this is an unearned run. If there are no outs and the next batter gets a base hit that the runner on 3rd would have scored on anyway, the run is earned. Same thing with allowing the runner on 1st to get to second. He gets there by error (doesn't matter E1 or E3, scored the same), would he have scored from 1st as the rest of the inning goes had he not gotten to 2nd due to the error. Hope that makes sense.

3) Run is earned. Walk or HBP wouldn't matter. Only thing that wouldn't count towards ERA is PB by catcher.

4) This would be scored as a stolen base for the runner. If he scores, it would be earned. I view this as a mental mistake by the fielders, which could not be scored an error. There was no physical misplay - which would be scored an error. So, stolen base, play on.

Hope that helps.
Last edited by bballman
bballmanbballman10,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by bballforever:

In the previous question (1 & 2) it is very complicated so hopefully you can help figure it out.
With runners on 1st & 2nd with one out, a pickoff to 1st failed (E-1) and the runner on 2nd scored. The runner on 1st also advanced to 3rd with one out. Next batter was walked so runners on the corners with one out. However if I understand you correctly, you need to see where everything would be if not for the error? It would be bases loaded with one out, right?
Now for the interesting part. The next batter hits a weak ground ball to the 2nd baseman who throws out the runner going from 3rd to home for 2nd out. Now there are runners at 1st & 2nd with two outs, but in the scenario where there was no error, the bases would still be loaded after the play at home with two outs. The pitcher again tries to pick off the runner on 1st and failed (E-3), allowing the player on 2nd to score and the runner on 1st to advance to 2nd. The runner on 2nd then tries to steal 3rd but is throw out to end the inning.
I hope that is enough info and not too confusing to help you help me score it right. Smile


I included your PM to me of the situation here so if I am misreading the scenario, others can chime in.

I would say that both runs are unearned. R1 would have been forced at home without the error leaving bases loaded with 2 outs. I would assume that he would have been forced if the team was able to make the tag. The second run scored on an error. If the runner scored from second, he would have scored from third. I'm not totally sure, but it seems that is as far as you can take it. Without the errors, the final runner would not have been stealing 3rd and would not have been thrown out, but since the 2nd run was scored on an error, it can't be counted as earned.

Unless someone else sees something different than me, I say both runs are unearned in situations 1 & 2.
OH OK Heat10+ posts
The rule book does address the defensive indifference situtation regarding runners on first and third --from OBR 10.7g "..with runners on
first and third bases, the official scorer should ordinarily credit a stolen base when the runner on first advances to second, if, in the scorer’s judgment, the defensive team had a legitimate strategic motive — namely, preventing the runner on third base from scoring on the throw to second base—not to contest the runner’s advance to second base.

Once again the rules go on to talk about judgements such as what inning, the score of the game, whether the runner was held, pick off attempts.
I still say baseball is one of the hardest games to score.

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