Short to zone...Long through zone

Quote by the late, great Swingbuster on bat tipping.
I learned a great deal from Swingbuster and miss him very much, as well as BB.

"Tip the barrel during the stride and aim for the inside seam on a ball on the tee and the elbow is not discussed.

I agree...don't coach it down or you will have it coming down prematurely and ruining the relationship of rear elbow / lead leg opening horizontal connections that define torque.

Tipping the barrel in hitting is the same as thumb down hand break in pitching. What happens at hand break in pitching.....the hips coil as the stride begins . What happens when you tip the barrel ...the hips coil as the stride begins.

When do the shoulders complete the load....just before foot plant . That is WHY and HOW the rear elbow gets to the TOP of the load cycle as the hips have opened and just before the front side blocks

It is important to see that"-Swingbuster R.I.P.

Shep, do you have it in your contract that you can only post in the "Short to Long" thread?

Im going to paste this into the "teaching hitters" thread. There was discussion on bat tipping going on. Thanks.

No contract brother. Just so much going on with the contract that pays the bills! Don't have as much time to post as I would like, anymore. Not complaining though, and do what I can to contribute, when I can.

I would like to take this opportunity to concur coachric's opinion though.

"Dee and Bee to the Max, I respect both of your posts and opinions."-quote by Coachric

Good to see you two carrying on the legacy of good ole hard work and long hours of film analysis. When you two post, I can assure you, I am reading, even if I don't post.

You know the ole saying, no news is good news! The same holds true when I read posts that are "right on point". I wouldn't want to mess 'em up!

Peace,
Shep

The epitome of Short to Zone...Long through Zone
peace

Barry Bonds was taught by some of the best. Here are two instructors who did all the teaching in his early, and innocent years. Can anyone identify the gentleman with Leyland who I beieve with all my heart and soul, should be voted into in the HOF because of his enormous contributions.

[R.I.P.]

Ole War Memorial Stadium. Thank you Coach
Thrift for the opportunity signing me as an "older player". My loyalty will never waver. peace, shep

Between these two swings, which do you feel like is the shortest to and longest out? peace, shep

Now that S.Drew's brother J.D. has hit a grand slam in the bottom of the first for the Red Sox Nation, I'll tell you that it is my firm belief that Drew is shorter to and longer through in the comparison of Cody Johnson and Steve Drew in the clips posted above. Wayback/Noreaster, you must be loving life about right now peace shep

Yep, J.D's swing is short to the zone, and long out.
I still believe the rocket Ortiz hit up the middle was 10MPH faster than the ball J.D. just hit, no doubt! Good RBI though, but that ball Pappi hit was a laser-shot! peace shep

8-1 Red Sox in the 3rd!

Wayback, you're definitely loving every minute of game six. Theo's Law. peace shep

Shep.....leave the Evil Empire. The band wagon is filling up quick. lol

The wheels have come off!

10-1

This morning, an associate and I met for breakfast and discussed possible changes in the line-up for the Red Sox tonight.

I would say our changes are the same as the Evil Empire made tonight. Besides, Torre's a goner in the other empire There all empires-LOL peace Noreaster, and by the way, you're definitely busting my chops payback I suppose! peace shep

quote:

Originally posted by Shepster:
Between these two swings, which do you feel like is the shortest to and longest out? peace, shep

The one on the right.

Right side. Better hips/middle action. Better segmentation between lower/upper bodies. Better rear arm action. Better hand rotation.

You sir, are correct. That is Drew on the right.
He doesn't wrap like Johnson and stays connected much better. He also finishes longer through the zone. The bat almost reaches his back in extension, unlike Cody Johnson's swing. (my .02)
Wayback's descriptors are very good.
peace shep

Enjoy! peace shep

Beautiful, just beautiful. The Bambino in all his glory.

Time for all you young hitters with aspirations to play pro ball one day, to read this thread from start to finish. This is some of the best hitting material I have ever read in my time here on this planet.

Lontime Player now Longtime Observer

Guys:
IMO long through the ball is nothing more than matching your swing plane with the plane of the pitch. Those that are in & out of the hitting zone do not do this & are forced to be exactly on time to hit the ball squarely. When the swing plane matches the plane of the pitch you can be a little early or a little late & hit the ball hard.(Somewhere between 80-100% on time)For example, if I'm on plane with a "centercut" thigh high fastball & I'm within that 80% on time timing, I can hit the ball hard to LF,CF,or RF. Chances are if I hit the ball to CF I'll be closest to being 100% on time.

No one has all the answers. This is like a buffett; you take what works for you. The more you know, you come to understand how little you really know.

There are NO always or nevers in this game nor are there any bad cues. It's all about how the individual athlete applies things.

IMO the wise man learns more from the ignorant man than the ignorant man learns from the wise man.

JW

Congratulations Coach Weinstein on your recent assignment with the Rockies this past season and I totally agree with everything you said in that last post. You gotta match the plane and timing is everything Wished I had one of these CalPoly training devices for studying, "matching the plane".
I believe I could make one though CRadlo, Isn't your dad a patent lawyer

JW, will you be with Modesto again this season or do I sense a promotion. If you are like Charlie Hough, CA is home and will always be home. Didn't you work for the LA Dodgers some years back?

I hope all of you guys are alright out there in the "BLIZZARD of 2008" or should I say hurricane??? At any rate, have a great season and we appreciate your input here on this board.
peace shep

One of the very first things I noticed about this training device is the lack of a parallel representation of matching the plane. That tells me what I've been teaching all these years about body tilt is right on point. That pitch would have to be too high to match the plane if the plane is parallel to the ground. Right JW? Here's the best example I can find in my picture database which represents "tilt in the body of a hitter's posture" that is the key to success for those who are seeking to attain the highest levels. Here ya go.

Here's another one. The Babe's tilt and power "V" are evident in this great example of tilt Tilt does generate power from the core which rules

With over 800 wins and JUCO HOF induction, I bet Coach Weinstein agrees. JW, you are a legend sir.

POPS(Willie Stargell) with the tilt. By the way, Willie Stargell was the hitting instructor for the Atlanta Braves during their incredible run in the 90's and played a huge role in "all" the Braves hitters success. He deserves more credit. Not many people know that, thought I would share.

Here's Pujols from the eye in the sky. You can see his tilt as well as the plane of the bat matching that tilt. Power, Power, Power from the core. HR!!!

Jerry that is a great post. To me it is exactly what long in the zone means. And it is exactly what happens to players who are short in but short out. There timing has to be perfect if they are short in and short out. This is a great thread alot of very good information. Also Shep , thank you so much for the information you continually post on this site. Anytime you want to make a trip down here and put on a clinic let me know. I will make it worth your time!

Shep- We had Jerry for a two-day hitting clinic over the holidays. He was unbelievable in conveying complicated things to make them seem easy. He's a master instructor who "gets it". What a pleasure.

It is an honor and privilege to give back when I can, and the same can be said for your contributions here Coach May. You bring a great deal of wisdom and experience to this board and you have my attention because I believe in winners and will follow them, and you're a winner!

I haven't posted in one particular thread but your replies to the young man in the General Topics Forum are "right on point" and much needed for this young man without sugar-coating. Hopefully, he will listen and realize you're only trying to help him realize hard work speaks much louder than past accomplishments and words. Words are cheap. In my book, there are talkers and hard workers(doers). I will be much more willing to help a young prospect who demonstrates willingness to do the right things on and off the field. Proactively without procrastination or excuses.

I also concur everything positive I have ever heard anybody say here about you and your sons. I wished my nephew was playing for your H.S. there in N.C.
Your post about the difference a good baseball specific weight training program opposed to a program w/o a good conditioning program was astute, proven and tested as in your program's tremendous results and track record since your inception as Head Coach. You said something in this thread about strengthening the core and training the core that I also endorse. The core is the key and power comes from that core. Higher levels can be achieved by building up this core. Mixing in plyometrics, rubber tubing for flexibility as well as the tabatas, or like exercises CoachB25 mentioned in this thread many moons ago, is also crucial.

As a hitter, the other key thing you mentioned Coach May, is of utmost importance in the evolving phase of the body as it strengthens. The body's ability to maintain quickness and speed as the opposing pitchers increase velocity at higher levels is necessary in order to keep advancing. This is prophesy and more times than naught, the wall hitters face who haven't trained with a combination of fast-twitch muscle fiber related workouts with larger muscle groups. You have to train the body inside out and focus on strengthening the finer muscles first so the larger muscles don't take over and cause the mechanics to break down in a swing or a pitching delivery.

This all ties in together with the proper hitting mechanics. IMO, I believe that the core can be better activated by the tilt in the body posture of a hitter with a strong core and instead of reaching for middle out pitches, it is my belief that the hitter can use this strong core and tilt more easily on the middle to outside pitches, RHP vs RHH. The still frame with the box of Rickey Henderson above is a perfect illustration of what I mean. Why not get the best of both worlds while at the same time maintaining the core strength which is the "main power source" while at the same time maintaining the box, and matching the plane.

Once again, your invitation will be noted Coach May, but I cannot promise anything do to my obligations here in S.FL as a full-time advanced science teacher.

I do however feel honored to be invited and do need to see my nephew play up there this spring, so I won't rule out the possibilty

Here's another player who has demonstrated great success with the characteristics of great hitters that I subscribe What a perfect example of the shoulders also matching the plane.

NCBall,

Just saw your post. He is definitely astute brother. Not to mention, well-known in "many" baseball circles. Hopefully, he will share "just a small measure" of his knowledge with us here. What a blessing that would be for all of us.

Once again norcal, peace and good to see you

shep

I've been lurking on this site for a while with few replies. I played college ball and some pro ball and i have always been taught short to the ball and long through it. I completely agree with matching individual swing plane to the plane of the ball to achieve this.

I teach the same thing to my players that by keeping the barrel through the zone you will be able to compensate for ball movement as well as develop backspin on the batted ball.

Lest we forget that the sooner and longer we are in the zone, the less likely we are going to not make contact.

quote:

Originally posted by BIGSKI22:
I've been lurking on this site for a while with few replies. I played college ball and some pro ball and i have always been taught short to the ball and long through it. I completely agree with matching individual swing plane to the plane of the ball to achieve this.

I teach the same thing to my players that by keeping the barrel through the zone you will be able to compensate for ball movement as well as develop backspin on the batted ball.

Great job BIGSKI22!!!! Keep up the correct teachings my friend. Peace, Shep

There is so much good stuff in this thread that I just had to revisit it.

quote:

Originally posted by kb2610:
This is a phrase I heard recently, but wasn't sure what it meant. Previoulsy, I'd heard that a short, quick stroke was good, lwhich made sense to me. Could any one here explain what this means and, if anybody has a video clip which demonstrates it, I'd love to see it posted.

I THINK I know what is meant by "short to zone," but I'm particularly baffled by the "long though zone" phrase.

Many thanks for your help!

IMO, what is meant by "long through the zone" is that the hands do not continue to acclerate after contact. Maximum barrel velocity should be achieved at contact, and not increased after contact.

Going into contact the lead arm and shoulders begin to decelerate while the top arm continues to accelerate. The deceleration of the lead arm, while the top arm continues to accelerate provides a whiping action and helps keep the bat in the zone longer.

Shepster, you are right, this thread is truly a classic. In response to your statement that you re read the entire thread, I'm intending to do so as well. Yes, BBScout was such a valuable asset to this community. He is missed!

quote:

Originally posted by kb2610:
"short to zone," but I'm particularly baffled by the "long though zone" phrase.

Always thought of this as saying take you barrel of the bat to the ball and extend through the ball.

Of course you have all the right moves to get to full extension.


IMHO,

drill

You have deleted my Angels Are Forever thread and When You think You've arrived thread. Why not this one too?

Hey bubandbran maybe some guys need a simple term. Short to the ball means quick to the ball.
Long though it means when you make contact you hit all three baseball. If you have evey done the drill hitting three baseball on the tees in a line you understand how to be long thru it and to stay in the Zone.

Randy...I think I understand what you are saying but could you break this drill down. I have never heard of it and would like to use it.

take three tees and place them in a line. start middle plate front of the plate and about 8 to 10 inch in front of the plate. you will have to bunch the tees up inorder to do this. Then you have your kids try to hit all three basball off the tee. what this does is it makes them learn how to keep better contact and to say on the ball thru the zone. and another drill is you place one tee at the plate and another one about 6 ft in front of the plate and have the kid try to hit the ball of the tee at the plate and make it hit the other ball on the other tee.

Just wanted to bump up one of the better threads on hitting

Quick to the ball...power through the ball...

Getting the bat head into the hitting zone sooner and further back will enhance contact being made.

That fastball that is normally missed now becomes a line drive down the opposite field line.

That off speed pitch now becomes a liner down the line on your pull side.

Those instances of perfect contact now become hot smashes rather than easy grounders.

The sooner and longer the bat head is on target to contact, the greater the batter's chances of hitting that pitch.

Remember, the pitcher has the advantage. They decide the speed and location of the pitch.

The batter has to see the ball coming out of the pitcher's hand, decide where it will pass in front of him and whether or not to swing.

The longer the time the hitting surface is in front of the ball, the better.