Short to zone...Long through zone

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Originally posted by Prime9:

quote:

INDEPENDENTLY. Argue with Slaught....

Power & Results; we all know the phrase "perception is reality." I look at "Slaughts" video and see what he's describing. However, I believe and "swear" his video confirms my belief, that the back knee moving inward allows the hips/shoulders to begin rotation and is FOLLOWED by the back elbow, not the other way around.

What we see and how we convey it, often makes these conversations so contradictory! His description of "the Gated swing" explaining how the hands must work independent and that they aren't rivoted to the body is good. Doesn't the "kinetic chain" of energy developed in the best baseball swing, HAVE to begin from the ground and move upwards? And isn't the goal to perfectly syncronize the "whip action" to generate maximum torque, hand and bat speed so that any break in movement, which would decrease power, is inperceptable?

Prime,

I think you are correct in that the rear knee starts down and in as the hands move to the handset and the rear foot and knee are providing resistance to the upper body turning/moving in the opposite direction. So...the rear hip has already started turning/moving to the ball as the hands are going in another direction. It can be up, down, back, around, however as long as they don't go in the same direction. At full separation, the shoulders laterally tilt, the hands and forearms then take the barrel rearward as the rear hip drives/ thrusts forward. "Cusp" is reached and the rear hip wins the tug-of-war and the hands and barrel are released. The barrel is then directed by the hands to the ball.

quote:

Originally posted by Results Baseball:
Well, can I have some of that mojo? All big leaguers do this. Its not a linear/rotational "thing." It is a big league "thing."

Show me a big hitter that "When the elbow is moving down the hands are moving forward". (I thought this for a long time.)

These quotes from your website (which I believe are correct) contradict your statement above.

quote:

keeping your hands close to your body as you approach contact

Examples of poor hand paths (hands cast away from body) that inhibit correct weight transfer, and minimize bat speed.

The Slaught video link (re shoulder swings) on your site shows Slaught demonstrating the hands not moving as the elbow drops (even though he claims the hands are "moving"). BTW Slaught also confuses elbow drop with hand movement.

quote:

Originally posted by SultanofSwat:

quote:

Originally posted by Results Baseball:
Well, can I have some of that mojo? All big leaguers do this. Its not a linear/rotational "thing." It is a big league "thing."

Show me a big hitter that "When the elbow is moving down the hands are moving forward". (I thought this for a long time.)

These quotes from your website (which I believe are correct) contradict your statement above.

quote:

keeping your hands close to your body as you approach contact

Examples of poor hand paths (hands cast away from body) that inhibit correct weight transfer, and minimize bat speed.

The Slaught video link (re shoulder swings) on your site shows Slaught demonstrating the hands not moving as the elbow drops (even though he claims the hands are "moving"). BTW Slaught also confuses elbow drop with hand movement.

The hands/forearms slot the elbow. The hands are moving, but not forward, they are moving around a point between the hands.

Sultan,

Show me how a big league hitter's back elbow moves down without their hands moving forward. Also, I don't see how the back elbow "slotting" causes "casting."

Power,

Please explain/show how the hands are moving around a point between the hands, not forward.

Guys, I'm a visual learner, so photo/video of big leaguers would be appreciated. One last thing, even big leaguers take bad swings, so please show me instances where solid contact occured.

Sultan and Power,

I looked at Chris O'leary's page and saw big leaguers doing both. The back elbow slotting with hands moving forward (A-Rod, DeRosa, Holliday, Pedroia), and the back elbow slotting without hand movement (Pujols, Uggla). Sultan, this is the first time I have ever noticed the back elbow slot without hand movement forward on some hitters. What is the difference in swing results of the back elbow slotting with no hand movement forward and with hand movement forward?

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Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

Please explain/show how the hands are moving around a point between the hands, not forward.

I doesn't get explained any better than that, IMO.

Results,

I think what you are seeing as forward hand movement is when the hip starts to turn the torso. The hands move forward, but not in relation to the body (they stay at the rear shoulder) until "cusp" is achieved. You simply can't do that with a push, pull hand action.

What do you mean by "cusp"?

Thank you.

This thread has some mighty fine pictures, videos, and information on hitting.

Thank you to all the members here who make this site so enjoyable.

Here at St. John's Island where I live, many residents talk about Dodgertown to this day.

Some even followed the Dodgers out west where they reside at the new spring training site in AZ.

We need another team here, because many of us retired to this area to watch a big league team.

So sad for the community. The old Dodgertown does have a lot of minor league activities and showcases, but it's just not the same as having your own MLB team to support. Maybe another team will eventually come back here, hopefully, in time enough for many of us to enjoy again.

I have some really good data concerning hitting that I am thinking about posting here.

It relates to this thread's topic. I may just get it all together tonight and decide what I should share first, tomorrow.

Happy Labor Day weekend everyone!

BlueDog,

Could you post that wintery scene with gazebo again? The one with the snow falling. That is an AWESOME scene my brother!

How are you?

Here's my two cents on the "short to, long through", which btw I think is important in hitting and very relevant:
Even though I coach high school baseball, I have a chance to observe many of our school's softball girl's swings in our indoor. I've noticed that most girls are short to and short through...in other words after contact there is very little extension, the bat wraps around by the rib cage with a short, restricted finish. (Please don't think I am discriminating against softball players or stereotyping females, I'm just telling you what I see!) This would be the polar opposite of long through.
IMO, on most swings, after contact the end/cap of the bat points towards the pitcher as the arms are both in "extension" for the first time. As the bat continues to travel around the body the swing remains "long", with the hands, which were palm up/palm down at contact (right palm up for a RH hitter) trading positions (right palm down) and the hands and arms still in extension away from the body.
This extension allows the hitter to be at max bat speed at contact (if the finish is short and cut off the bat is slowing down prior to contact), it allows them to better match the plane of pitch (or hit in a big zone as Don Slaught says), and lets the hitter be smooth, rhythmic, and free.