cvsting,
Ever tried hitting golf balls with the old blades? If you hit it perfect it goes like crazy. If you are a little off center it doesn't go far at all. For those of us with less than professional ball striking ability the ball goes further using a cavity back because we almost always hit the ball a little bit off the sweet spot. Perhaps something of the sort is happening with the aluminum bats. Most balls are probably hit a bit off the sweet spot and they go much further than with wood even though the BESR is limited. The hitters who hit the ball with the sweet spot much more often than most will have your outfielders playing back no matter what type of bat they use. Just an idea. Nothing scientific to back it up.
I suppose for arguement sake you can accept the sweet spot vs sweet spot testing. However, as you move away from that "quarter" size spot on the bat the similarities between the two go out the window.
How many times do you hear "I just missed it" versus "I hit that one on the nutt".
How many times do you hear "I just missed it" versus "I hit that one on the nutt".
As a high school player, I would love for us to use wooden bats. I use wood in BP and in the cage, and it just feels a lot better. The switch would also seperate the real hitters from the players who get base hits off garbage pitches off the end of the bat of the skinny part of it.
A sure scientific test would be to get Bonds to give it a try since we're talking top end here, and if a ball hits a hula girl on top of the head in Honolulu, we know we've got a problem.
CV
CV
I wonder if they test sweet spot to sweet spot only, conveniently ignoring that an alibat is all sweet spot as compared to wood.
I know safety should come first. However, many coaches such as myself have had their athletic budgets drastically cut. It is happening everywhere around our area. My budget was cut in half. As bad as this sounds, realistically, I can't afford to purchase wooden bats for a season. We buy 2 new bats/year. That gives us 2 new, 2 1-year old and then we rotate the 3rd year's bats to the lower levels. Granted, kids also supply their own. I believe that wood would cause me to have very little money left for other things. This is my opinion. I don't know realistically how much using composites etc. in practice would affect all of this.
Probably should be....but it will never happen. Simple economics.
Here's an interesting spin.
Why not change the baseball. They have different types of balls. Instead of having so much elasticity (sp)and rubber, maybe a little more yarn would help to dead-end the ball
Why not change the baseball. They have different types of balls. Instead of having so much elasticity (sp)and rubber, maybe a little more yarn would help to dead-end the ball
CADad
I'm disappointed...no stats?
Come on now, I know you can do better than that (you're always "blinding me with science" 
)
This has been touched on in this topic, but let me asked it a little more directly. I coached with a guy who played some minor league ball. His thinking was that he did not believe that a ball hit on sweet spot of aluminum bat went any further than one on the good wooden's sweetie. I disagreed (and still do). My disagreement does not come from any scientific origin...just from the Yogi school of "you can observe a lot by watching".
What are the expert opinions?
quote:
Just an idea. Nothing scientific to back it up.
I'm disappointed...no stats?
Come on now, I know you can do better than that (you're always "blinding me with science" )This has been touched on in this topic, but let me asked it a little more directly. I coached with a guy who played some minor league ball. His thinking was that he did not believe that a ball hit on sweet spot of aluminum bat went any further than one on the good wooden's sweetie. I disagreed (and still do). My disagreement does not come from any scientific origin...just from the Yogi school of "you can observe a lot by watching".
What are the expert opinions?quote:
Originally posted by DaddyBo:
I coached with a guy who played some minor league ball. His thinking was that he did not believe that a ball hit on sweet spot of aluminum bat went any further than one on the good wooden's sweetie. I disagreed (and still do). My disagreement does not come from any scientific origin...just from the Yogi school of "you can observe a lot by watching".
I'm no expert (just ask my wife)
, but the longest home run I ever saw my son hit was with wood. I believe that if you hit it right, it will go no matter what you use.However, I also agree that the sweet spot on wood is about 3 inches long as opposed to about 8' on an aluminum bat which makes it more forgiving.
While the sweet spot is certainly bigger with metal, another factor is that metal bats can produce greater bat speed.
A metal bat can be made so that there is less of the weight on the end enabling it to be swung faster compared to its wood counterpart.
A metal bat can be made so that there is less of the weight on the end enabling it to be swung faster compared to its wood counterpart.
Anyone that argues that metal bats are as safe as wood are out of touch. They also change the game. There is no comparison between metal and wood. I dont believe we will ever see in our lifetimes wood in high school but maybe we will see it change at least in college. In my opinion metal bats should be banned for two reasons. #1 Safety of the players, all the players especially pitchers. #2 The integrity of the game. I never swung metal because I graduated in 1977 and we used wood. I used it in Little League and all the way up to High School. I see pitchers make great pitches and kids get hits on pitches that would be pop ups or routine ground ball outs. My Legion team this summer played in some wood bat games. It was great. We beat a team 4-1 and it felt like we were up by 10 runs. We lost a game 3-1 and it felt like we were down 10 runs. It brings back the real game. Bunting runners over and moving runners over. Its just better baseball and a whole lot more fun at least for me as a coach. Our players loved it. I guess Im just dreaming. Ill tell you one thing it sure separates the true hitters. With the metal alot of kids stand out at the plate. With the wood the true hitters are the only ones that stand out. And the ones who have true power still show it even with the wood.
Just curious...Does the BESR mean anything?
Just "Google it" ... found at www.baseballtips.com:
BESR stands for “Ball Exit Speed Ratio,” an independent and scientific calculation designed to measure the performance of non-wood bats.
The National Federation of State High School Associations (NFHS) adopted the BESR bat performance standard in June 2001, a move that follows the steps taken by the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) in 1999.
Elliot Hopkins, NFHS liaison to the Baseball Rules Committee, highlighted the reasoning behind the rule change in a July 27, 2001 press release, "Adding the BESR requirement for bats used in high school baseball is a continuation of changes made for the 2001 season to ensure that bat performance mirrors the performance of wood bats."
The Baseball Exit Speed Ratio (BESR) mark ensures a bat will have:
A maximum exit speed on the approved test which limits performance to mirror the best Northern White Ash wood bats
Met the moment-of-inertia requirement (balance point)
A barrel diameter not exceeding a maximum of 2 5/8 inches
A length to weight differential of no greater than minus 3
BESR stands for “Ball Exit Speed Ratio,” an independent and scientific calculation designed to measure the performance of non-wood bats.
The National Federation of State High School Associations (NFHS) adopted the BESR bat performance standard in June 2001, a move that follows the steps taken by the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) in 1999.
Elliot Hopkins, NFHS liaison to the Baseball Rules Committee, highlighted the reasoning behind the rule change in a July 27, 2001 press release, "Adding the BESR requirement for bats used in high school baseball is a continuation of changes made for the 2001 season to ensure that bat performance mirrors the performance of wood bats."
The Baseball Exit Speed Ratio (BESR) mark ensures a bat will have:
A maximum exit speed on the approved test which limits performance to mirror the best Northern White Ash wood bats
Met the moment-of-inertia requirement (balance point)
A barrel diameter not exceeding a maximum of 2 5/8 inches
A length to weight differential of no greater than minus 3
pbone, I do know WHAT it means, or stands for..I guess I should say..Has it changed any opinions in the wood/aluminum saftey debate?? If not...Why not?Fungo
I believe the cost issue is not as big as most say. If the colleges went to a composite wood bat, I think it could actually be cheaper on the programs. A few years ago, we bought 6 Baum bats for our college team. Twenty or so players used them everyday....in the cage, on the field, in scrimmages...they were still good after a year and a half. After that, I traded them to another school for some aluminum bats. Baum bats cost around 110-125 a piece. You could buy a bat for each player (14-18 typically on a roster) for about the same price as 8-10 aluminum bats. There is no doubt we couldn't use "real" wood but the composite is a viable alternative. Just my opinion!
Sorry ... west coast, not enough coffee yet 
Brain was still at half-speed.
Brain was still at half-speed.
Fungo, I think the rating thing is an attempt to quantify what isn't quantifiable. In order to measure, they use a "standard" impact....and if everybody swung the bat in the same way, at the same speed, and with the same strength, that would be important.
The one way I think it has has a positive impact (pun intended....or, at least, not avoided) is that it's put a cap on the manufacturers going crazy like the golfing equipment has done and developing bats that literally could put a ball into orbit.
The one way I think it has has a positive impact (pun intended....or, at least, not avoided
) is that it's put a cap on the manufacturers going crazy like the golfing equipment has done and developing bats that literally could put a ball into orbit.
I posted something about the BESR and what it really meant in August, here is the post:
It's still a joke.
quote:
posted August 17, 2004 01:12 PM
Most people think of the Ball Exit Speed Ratio being no more than 92mph, well that's just false if you ask me.
Take a look at this link and do some calculations on your own to see how hard and fast some of the balls can come off the bat.
Ball Exit Speed Ratio
Now plug into the equation velocity of pitch at 80mph, and the bat velocity of 80mph. The BESR ratio is set at .728 (based on the studies).
I come up with a 116.48 mph missle coming off a bat.
I hope someone proves me wrong, just imagine an 90 mph pitch and a 80 mph swing. 118.76 mph
It's still a joke.
Some of you might change your opinion about the use of aluminum bats in high school ball if you witnessed what I did this summer. One of our pitchers was hit in the head with a comeback ball. He is very fortunate to be alive.