Should he play?

With due respect to all those parents who believe they have to stay completely out of everything having to do with the team, please respect the fact that not all parents feel the same way. Although I never once spoke to the coach about my boy’s or anyone else’s PT, it didn’t mean I didn’t want to know generally how PT was handed out, and I didn’t have any compunction about asking general questions.

The reason wasn’t that I wanted to control anything that was going on, but if I hadn’t done that, I would never have found out that pitchers were being held to different standards by the private coaches they had. Players who were going to a friend of his were being given more opportunities than players going to other coaches, even though they were superior pitchers and their coaches were far superior coaches. It had nothing to do with grades, attitude, performance, or anything else, and that was flat out wrong. The AD, principal, Supt of schools, and the state assn. agreed.

Had I just sat there like the good little dad, believing the powers to be had a handle on things, it would have been a very sad day for everyone. The bottom line is, not every parent who wants to talk to a coach is trying to do anything other than get simple answers about things they don’t understand.

In my experience, if the coach wants him on varsity, he feels he's good enough to contribute.

As for the "parents", there really isn't anything you can do, except be gracious and as suggested, cheer every player on.

As far as coach-parent meetings, the only time we "met" with the coach was the mandatory coach-parent-player meeting prior to the season.  After the general meeting he would meet with the parents one-on-one and explain his plans and expectations for the player for that season.

While TPM provided a great answer and is 100% correct I'm still going to provide my response.

At no point did I say it's a "my way or the highway" approach nor did I say parents cannot talk to coaches.  I said there will be no discussion about playing time nor position.  Both of those are for the good of the team and once you entertain one parent in a conversation then you open the door for other parents to want to have that conversation.  At what point do you get any coaching or even teaching done?  Add to the fact I'm the AD and is responsible for about 15 athletic teams and most have a JV team - do you realize how many conversations I would have to have because parents aren't happy their kid is on the bench?  When would I be able to teach or get any of my responsibilities of being AD done?

From your next post it seems that you had a bad experience but that doesn't mean it's like that everywhere.  I tell my coaches that if a kid wishes to discuss playing time or position to have that conversation unless that kid becomes disrespectful.  This is part of the maturation process these kids need to go through which TPM alluded to.  When they get in the real world they will have to ask a boss for a raise or promotion or in college maybe discuss financial aid or grades with a professor.  Because the funny thing is in college although mom and dad are footing the bill they legally don't have access to anything because that child is an adult.  Schools are now allowing the student's to sign a release form of some sort but once again what are we teaching these kids / young adults if mom and dad are always there to bail them out?

Someone said the team is the players and coaches and while that is true I've always included the parents.  I tell my coaches to include them as well.  There has to be communication between coaches and parents about many things but it will not include playing time nor position and there will not be any communication (except for good game) after a game.  I have a 24 hour policy on any communication outside of congratulations.  I have to have a preseason meeting with my parents about concussions and in that meeting I go over school rules and the coaches go over team rules.  The one thing I tell parents is if they come at my coaches or me angry then I will not listen to them at all.  It is the wrong way to handle things, the wrong thing to teach and is never productive - so we don't do things that way.

Edited to add - do I want parents in the stands being negative?  Heck no but there's no way I'm going to stop them by granting them a conference on playing time / position.  If anything it will lead to more negativity because they won't like they hear in the meeting and then be worse in the stands trying to prove their point coaches are dumb. 

Parent - Why isn't my baby playing more?

Coach / AD - Well based on what we see everyday in practice and intersquad games your son / daughter hasn't been performing at the level needed in order to be in the lineup.  If they would start concentrating more on _____ and ______; which I've already told them then they may improve enough to get more playing time.

Parent in the stands - that dumb coach said my baby wasn't any good.

The parents who get it don't need to have that conversation because they are realistic in their child's abilities.  The ones who want to have conferences over playing time are the ones who usually don't get it because they can't take their rose colored glasses off.

coach2709,

Conversations about PT seem to always come to this point, and its too bad. If you go back to my original post and read it again, you should be able to see that I didn’t suggest in any way that a parent should go to a coach about PT. The last paragraph said the parent is going to have to learn to trust the coaches judgment about how he uses players. I was thinking about the OP where a Fr might be put on the V, not about whether or not he got PT.

Someone said the team is the players and coaches and while that is true I've always included the parents.  I tell my coaches to include them as well.  There has to be communication between coaches and parents about many things but it will not include playing time nor position and there will not be any communication (except for good game) after a game.  I have a 24 hour policy on any communication outside of congratulations.  I have to have a preseason meeting with my parents about concussions and in that meeting I go over school rules and the coaches go over team rules.  The one thing I tell parents is if they come at my coaches or me angry then I will not listen to them at all.  It is the wrong way to handle things, the wrong thing to teach and is never productive - so we don't do things that way.

How is that any different than anything I said?

Obviously you’ve got a bone to pick with parents griping about PT, but I’ve never once suggested anyone should do that.

Sounds like maybe you didn't go to the coach to talk about play time, but went straight to the AD, then the principal, then the  superintendent of schools, and then the state association.  Surely you talked about play time with them. 

I am late to joining this party, but thought I'd throw in my thoughts on the original post, as my son's in the same boat as your 2017.  We've told him that if he is put on varsity as a freshman, he might not get the same playing time he's been accustomed to, but to work his butt off and earn whatever he gets.  Hustle, hustle, hustle!  Coaches are going to put in the kids that are team players and are going to produce wins.  If he doesn't get a lot of playing time during the high school season, there's always 40+ games waiting during the summer season.  

What?  My son played varsity as a pitcher when he was a freshman.  Actually, he pitched on varsity and played position on JV his freshman year.  I didn't worry about the parents in the stands.  Most of them were very nice and very supportive.  If they weren't, that was their problem, not mine.  As others have said, be humble, support ALL the kids.  The worst thing you could do would be to criticize the older players.  That is what you will get you in a heap of trouble.

In terms of talking to the coach, I talked to the coach all the time.  I would talk to him about what needed to be done around the field and clubhouse as parents, I would talk a little baseball with him and about the team in general.  Just kind of little chats.  Only once in 4 years did I ever bring up play time.  My son was pitching in a game and had obviously run out of gas.  Coach left him in and something like 5 runs scored in that inning.  Some time during the next week, I just mentioned "I think you left him in too long that game".  I saw this as a health issue.  He was tired and pitching beyond fatigue.  Coach agreed with me.  That's it. 

Now that my son is in college, I can't even imagine talking to the coach about anything.  Heck, the coaches barely acknowledge that the parents exist.  HS needs to be the start of that. 

The player offered a varsity spot as a freshman is being given the opportunity to assert himself as a future leader in the program.  Congratulations to him. 

Parents' job is to be there for him, to help him manage his duties and responsibilities so that eventually he can do the right thing without having to ask. 

Parents can talk to coaches about college recruiting or about health/injury issues.  Maybe about staffing the concession stand or helping with fund raising projects.  Otherwise, talking to the coach is a great way to get yourself in the doghouse and, depending on what the coach is like, that could redound to your son's detriment as well. 

While as said above, not all parents agree with this, the point of coming here is to learn the better course.  Obviously some parents don't get it, but that doesn't mean you should follow their lead to the gates of hell.

Stats - How is that different, you ask?  It is exactly the opposite of what you said your previous two posts when you suggested parents should be able to discuss PT and then gave your personal story of how doing so was instrumental in outing a bad coach for unfair PT distribution.

Originally Posted by bballman:

Sounds like maybe you didn't go to the coach to talk about play time, but went straight to the AD, then the principal, then the  superintendent of schools, and then the state association.  Surely you talked about play time with them. 

Well, surely you’d be wrong, and even if you were right, what difference does it make if all of those people found there was a very big problem?

Originally Posted by cabbagedad:

Stats - How is that different, you ask?  It is exactly the opposite of what you said your previous two posts when you suggested parents should be able to discuss PT and then gave your personal story of how doing so was instrumental in outing a bad coach for unfair PT distribution.

Please quote where I suggested parents should be able to discuss PT. My personal story was about a coach who was working in collusion with a friend of his and sharing $$$ from pitching lessons he was forcing players to take by threatening and withholding their playing time. To me that’s a far cry from complaining about Junior not getting enough PT.

This is a great conversation and I am learning a lot from it.

I was just thinking that if I got demoted or fired from my job tomorrow. Would my Dad call up my employer?

"Well I know you just let him go, but you made a big mistake.  My boy is a very hard worker and is way smarter than those other guys."

That would never happen.

I stand behind let the player learn to handle these situations on his own.

My job as a parent should be to counsel my son on how to handle these issues, not to do it for him.

I wonder how many ball players have stopped improving because the parents talk about the coach in front of them?  Blame the coach for lack of playing time rather than figuring out how to improve and earn more time.

I know there may be some exceptions where there are actual bias etc.. but I have never really witnessed that before.  The majority of time parents have an unrealistic image of how good their kid is compared to their peers.

IMO

"The Gates of Hell".  Ha ha, love it!  Agreed.  There are always "those parents" and I have been at meetings where coaches have cringed when a certain kid shows up on their list.  The coaches also have plenty of "so and so's mom/dad" stories that go around and get repeated frequently.  Unfortunately for the kids, high school coaches already know who some of them are based on the performances of the parents at the youth level.  If they are competing for a spot with another student for that last spot on the roster and both have equal skill levels, it's a no-brainer for the coach to go with the kid that will be less drama.  Coaching is hard enough without having to worry about a parent screaming at you about playing time while you're trying to coach 3rd (saw that last year at a JV game). 

This sight is an excellent spot to visit to help keep things in perspective.  The members have been through all experiences, both good and bad, and I find it invaluable when I have questions or concerns.  

This..

"Not every parent/coach discussion is about Johnny’s playing time, but even if it was, what’s the problem with having a general explanation as to how playing time is handed out?"

And this..

"Although I never once spoke to the coach about my boy’s or anyone else’s PT, it didn’t mean I didn’t want to know generally how PT was handed out, and I didn’t have any compunction about asking general questions."

BTW, I'm not sure how a parent asking generally how PT is handed out could be interpreted as any different than asking about the son's PT.

Sounds like it was you who approached these people by what you said here:

If you didn't approach anyone, who did?  What you are saying may have been a legitimate gripe, but you shouldn't say that you didn't approach school officials about PT when it sounds like you actually did.  Maybe I'm wrong and you weren't clear.  If I'm wrong in interpreting what you said, let us know who actually addressed this situation with the school officials.  Thanks.

Originally Posted by cabbagedad:

This..

"Not every parent/coach discussion is about Johnny’s playing time, but even if it was, what’s the problem with having a general explanation as to how playing time is handed out?"

And? Where did I suggest talking to the coach about PT? The question was rhetorical. The “even if it was” should have given that away.

And this..

"Although I never once spoke to the coach about my boy’s or anyone else’s PT, it didn’t mean I didn’t want to know generally how PT was handed out, and I didn’t have any compunction about asking general questions."

Again, you’ve read something into what I wrote that wasn’t there. Perhaps my sentence was too long or you didn’t recognize the punctuation. If that was a problem, I apologize and I’ll try again.

“Although I never once spoke to the coach about my boy’s or anyone else’s PT, it didn’t mean I didn’t want to know generally how PT was handed out.” That simply says I never spoke to the coach about PT, but I wondered exactly how it was figured out and would have liked to have known.

I didn’t have any compunction about asking general questions. I asked a lot of questions about a lot of things, mostly because I was the scorer and the statistician. I wanted to stay on the same page as the coach as much as I could without compromising the rules or my integrity, and I was always looking for ways to help him, the other coaches, the players, and the parents get a true look at what took place during games and how everyone was performing.

But, I also asked questions about eligibility, field maintenance, travel accommodations, parking, the newsletter I wrote, and scads of other things that had nothing at all to do with PT.

BTW, I'm not sure how a parent asking generally how PT is handed out could be interpreted as any different than asking about the son's PT.

Perhaps that’s because you’re a cynic who looks on parents as a necessary evil rather than partners in sports programs. I ask coaches I score for all the time about the process of allocating PT. The main reason is, when they say something like I want the best players on the field, I’ll try to get their definition of “Best” and get as close to showing it with numbers as possible. Its paid off more than once because there’s never been a coach I haven’t learned something from. And  I daresay never run into one that learn a thing or two from me too.

Everything’s in the approach and how the situation is handled. Maybe your experience is that all parents are jerks who do nothing but waste you precious time whining about why their child doesn’t get more PT. I was able to work with and for someone who hated me personally, because I treated him with respect both in front of him and behind his back, even though I didn’t agree with him on many things. I separated being a parent and being someone who represented the team in very different ways when my son was playing, and I do the same things now that I don’t have a child in the program. There are many different kinds of relationships around the game, and they don’t always have to be adversarial to accomplish the best for the program.

The whole thing is about communication in relationships. If a coach is communicative and open about why things happen the way they do, chances are, the only questions he’ll get from me are asking what I can do to help. If I get the sense that the coach is hiding something or lying about something, bells and whistles start going off. Sorry, that’s just the way I am, and in my experience, there’s more parents like me than the whiners seeking to further their own child’s fortunes.

I have a 14 yr old 2017 kid.The coach wants to put him on varsity as a freshman. Do you think this is a good idea??

Depends!! Maybe a position player, but I watched a BIG freshman RHP get moved up to varsity some years back and I thought it was the wrong move then, and time has proven it. He wasn't ready mentally for the pressure, some of us could see it in his eyes, but the coach kept putting him in sink or swim situations to force him to toughen up, he drown. "Coach" should be a title that is awarded in steps like "Master Coach" or "Coach in Training", look at the coach's resume before you blindly follow him, there is a wide range between beginner and expert all carrying the same title.

I can see that with the mental part.  My son handled it well, but I can see that others may not. 

If you don't mind me asking, you said this kid drowned.  What happened to him?  Did he quit baseball?  Or is he still playing?  Just wondering if this was something that stopped him from maybe pitching that season, but he bounced back, or did it knock him out all together?

Originally Posted by Midlo2012:

Depends!! Maybe a position player, but I watched a BIG freshman RHP get moved up to varsity some years back and I thought it was the wrong move then, and time has proven it. He wasn't ready mentally for the pressure, some of us could see it in his eyes, but the coach kept putting him in sink or swim situations to force him to toughen up, he drown. "Coach" should be a title that is awarded in steps like "Master Coach" or "Coach in Training", look at the coach's resume before you blindly follow him, there is a wide range between beginner and expert all carrying the same title.

I never thought about coaches that way, but I think the idea has merit. Everyone under the same title doesn’t work as far as coaches goes, nor is it any better for players or parents! Everyone brings his/her own good points and baggage, and that makes for many many different situations.

I’d venture to say that boy you spoke of would have been a big success in a different situation, and many who were big successes would have failed miserably had their situation been different as well. Its really a big crapshoot and people can only do the best they can do. I seriously doubt there’s any HS HC who sets out to fail miserably, but I also doubt there are any parents who set out to cause problems either. The best ones can handle many different situations, rather than force every situation into what fits them personally. IOW, ya got ta learn to bend in the wind.

Bballman,

I heard he's playing 3B or DH, but not pitching.

Well, that's a shame.  At some point everyone needs to face adversity.  I think pitchers are a different breed and maybe he wasn't cut out to be a pitcher.  Unfortunately, it will never be known whether he would have been able to deal with it better as he got older and more mature.  Hopefully, he will flourish as a position player.