Should high schools grant two additional semesters of eligibility?

High schools do not exist to provide 19 year olds a place to play baseball.  

Assuming a kid is on track to graduate, why would they even consider it?  I understand the collegiate angle of another year.  Some/most of those student-athletes are in their last years of athletics, or trying to get drafted.  The went to college for the athletics.  Those SA deserve an opportunity for a "redo" year.

HS is totally different.  While athletics is important to each player, and perhaps to some schools, the purpose of HS is to earn a diploma and move along.  Allowing an 18/19 yr old another year simply to play a sport seems ludicrous to me.  

For the record, I have a 2020 Senior, and he/we are devastated as he was starting to get draft looks.  But he's even said there would be no way he would want another year of HS.  If he didn't have college baseball in front of him, I may feel differently, but I'm not sure I would.

LeftyDadP9 posted:

Assuming a kid is on track to graduate, why would they even consider it?  I understand the collegiate angle of another year.  Some/most of those student-athletes are in their last years of athletics, or trying to get drafted.  The went to college for the athletics.  Those SA deserve an opportunity for a "redo" year.

HS is totally different.  While athletics is important to each player, and perhaps to some schools, the purpose of HS is to earn a diploma and move along.  Allowing an 18/19 yr old another year simply to play a sport seems ludicrous to me.  

For the record, I have a 2020 Senior, and he/we are devastated as he was starting to get draft looks.  But he's even said there would be no way he would want another year of HS.  If he didn't have college baseball in front of him, I may feel differently, but I'm not sure I would.

Thx... so in this case, we have a 2021 High D1 player considering it due to an injury...just coming back from surgery last Summer.  He's also been talking to MLB agents as well.  They believe the additional year would give him his lost year back and thinking he could maybe project/rank higher and maybe get a better scholarship/draft offer.  They're using it almost like a single Juco year but at their free public HS.   I know from our standpoint, they will likely find more 2022 P5 roster opportunitie/$$$ than 2021 at this time.  

Trust me...we also have those average players thinking the extra year will make them better/bigger/stronger...I know those guys haven't really work too hard the last 4 years and what makes them think the extra year will be any different.  Those guys are just avoiding the inevitable, in my opinion...but the injured player I question if there is any positive gains?  

So are you suggesting that the taxpayers are willing to pay for and allow a kid an extra year of public high school to complete athletic eligibility?  

I can't think of any good reason to change an athletic eligibility policy for every high school athlete in Florida to allow for this.   Can you give us a good reason to change the policy that could benefit every Florida high school athlete?   

9and7dad posted:

So are you suggesting that the taxpayers are willing to pay for and allow a kid an extra year of public high school to complete athletic eligibility?  

SMH... So are you suggesting that the taxpayers should NOT get a tax refund or added incentive for the public school not meeting their full obligation?   Come on bro...stay on topic.  I didn't make the flippin' rule that students can repeat their last HS grade if they want to...the state govn. did! 

fenwaysouth posted:

I can't think of any good reason to change an athletic eligibility policy for every high school athlete in Florida to allow for this.   Can you give us a good reason to change the policy that could benefit every Florida high school athlete?   

Thx...still trying to get my head around the entire thought process.  I'm not a fan personally of doing any of this.  Reading about the issues it is causing at the NCAA level is difficult enough.  

I dunno. HS sports are considered an EXTRA-Curricular activity, not the sole focus of the HS. Sound like there would be a wave of students doing a "PG-like" year at their same school. As an educator I had a B+/A-honors student who was reclassifying his sophomore year because he had a "young" birthday. I couldn't talk him out of it.  A number of students who retake a year seemed to be in the same situation as before. I know the anguish that many have had due to the current situation- missed season, graduations cancelled, etc. But to repeat an entire academic year???

Ripken Fan posted:

I dunno. HS sports are considered an EXTRA-Curricular activity, not the sole focus of the HS. Sound like there would be a wave of students doing a "PG-like" year at their same school. As an educator I had a B+/A-honors student who was reclassifying his sophomore year because he had a "young" birthday. I couldn't talk him out of it.  A number of students who retake a year seemed to be in the same situation as before. I know the anguish that many have had due to the current situation- missed season, graduations cancelled, etc. But to repeat an entire academic year???

I completely agree... Thx for the reply!

SoFloRHP posted:

9and7dad posted:

So are you suggesting that the taxpayers are willing to pay for and allow a kid an extra year of public high school to complete athletic eligibility?  

SMH... So are you suggesting that the taxpayers should NOT get a tax refund or added incentive for the public school not meeting their full obligation?   Come on bro...stay on topic.  I didn't make the flippin' rule that students can repeat their last HS grade if they want to...the state govn. did! 

You seem to have your mind made up and no one agrees with you.  Now you are getting agitated and aggressive.  Maybe it's time to move along.

Smitty28 posted:

SoFloRHP posted:

9and7dad posted:

So are you suggesting that the taxpayers are willing to pay for and allow a kid an extra year of public high school to complete athletic eligibility?  

SMH... So are you suggesting that the taxpayers should NOT get a tax refund or added incentive for the public school not meeting their full obligation?   Come on bro...stay on topic.  I didn't make the flippin' rule that students can repeat their last HS grade if they want to...the state govn. did! 

You seem to have your mind made up and no one agrees with you.  Now you are getting agitated and aggressive.  Maybe it's time to move along.

If you read the original post you can see it's not about me...it's about other players/families who I would love to see make good decisions for their boys...and I'm not so sure staying back a year is one of them.  I'm looking for real positive feedback from this group and suggesting that I'm somehow supporting local tax fraud is just not helpful ... If I wanted this type of help, I could have just posted this on Facebook.  Maybe I assumed too much from from this forum.  

Have you contacted the Fla State Board of education? Or direct those parents with the question to that governing body?

In Texas, a repeat year would be for Academic purposes...to get the kid to pass so he could graduate....not athletic due to not having a season of play...

After talking to my son, even though he is most likely losing his senior season, there is no way he would stay for an extra year.  Our schools are now doing online learning and he will still graduate in 2 month.  He has been in contact with his D1 coach and it all appears that everything will work out.  At least knowing what is know right now.

 

  

baseballmom posted:

Have you contacted the Fla State Board of education? Or direct those parents with the question to that governing body.

Thx...No I have not.  Probably pretty inundated right now in that office, but it is definitely good advice!

SoFloRHP posted:

The discussion here in Florida amongst most high school athletes has to do with the opportunity to redo this last year. While the NCAA & most HS are allowing a redo of the year...

What are the thoughts on this? Should high schools grant two additional semesters of eligibility or no? Is it even a good idea for "certain" high schoolers to look to stay back?  How will high schools even manage this influx of additional redo students? 

 

What do you mean most HS are allowing a redo? I'm not sure any are, nor do they have a good reason to. 

From what I understand you have a 2021 teammate committed to a top D1. He is considering reclassing so he can decommit in hopes of getting more scholarship money? Truth of the matter is that is sounds like a silly idea of the surface. Until the NCAA explicitly states what it's intentions are for eligibility, the MLB draft takes place, and the coach of the kid's school calls him and lets him know his scholarship is gone there is really no reason to decommit or reclass. Plus a kid talking to MLB agents should have no issues finding another school and a healthy scholarship at a highly ranked program. 

TXsportsdad posted:

After talking to my son, even though he is most likely losing his senior season, there is no way he would stay for an extra year.  Our schools are now doing online learning and he will still graduate in 2 month.  He has been in contact with his D1 coach and it all appears that everything will work out.  At least knowing what is know right now.

 

  

Great insight from your son.  THX!  Sorry for the busted HS season but glad his D1 relationship is strong!  Best of luck and thanks again!!

It is rough for everyone.  Plenty of other extracurriculars have kids who have worked their whole 4 years for the culminating senior season (Science competitions, music competitions, etc.) that have been cancelled.  Think of all the students in AP classes all year, and now AP exams are all turned on their head.

To make kids come to terms with this, maybe tell them that it's like they had a season-ending injury just before their senior season.  That does happen, and it's rough, and no-one ever suggested that those kids need/deserve another high school season, they just have had to move on.

PABaseball posted:

SoFloRHP posted:

The discussion here in Florida amongst most high school athletes has to do with the opportunity to redo this last year. While the NCAA & most HS are allowing a redo of the year...

What are the thoughts on this? Should high schools grant two additional semesters of eligibility or no? Is it even a good idea for "certain" high schoolers to look to stay back?  How will high schools even manage this influx of additional redo students? 

 

What do you mean most HS are allowing a redo? I'm not sure any are, nor do they have a good reason to. 

From what I understand you have a 2021 teammate committed to a top D1. He is considering reclassing so he can decommit in hopes of getting more scholarship money? Truth of the matter is that is sounds like a silly idea of the surface. Until the NCAA explicitly states what it's intentions are for eligibility, the MLB draft takes place, and the coach of the kid's school calls him and lets him know his scholarship is gone there is really no reason to decommit or reclass. Plus a kid talking to MLB agents should have no issues finding another school and a healthy scholarship at a highly ranked program. 

Yes, the highly discussed report down here states students can redo this last year...so sophomores can redo Soph year, Juniors, junior year, etc... unofficial report article: https://www.wtxl.com/news/loca...2-schools-in-florida

As for the teammates... the top D1 guy is uncommitted but has many offers.  Was waiting until after draft to make his selection.  Not sure if that's going to change course now.  The other is committed to an ACC program in the Carolinas.  I'm pretty sure he's going to follow his D1 coaches advise.  

anotherparent posted:

It is rough for everyone.  Plenty of other extracurriculars have kids who have worked their whole 4 years for the culminating senior season (Science competitions, music competitions, etc.) that have been cancelled.  Think of all the students in AP classes all year, and now AP exams are all turned on their head.

To make kids come to terms with this, maybe tell them that it's like they had a season-ending injury just before their senior season.  That does happen, and it's rough, and no-one ever suggested that those kids need/deserve another high school season, they just have had to move on.

Great points... thx.  Where this all ends nobody really knows.  Appreciate the insight! 

PABaseball posted:

SoFloRHP posted:

The discussion here in Florida amongst most high school athletes has to do with the opportunity to redo this last year. While the NCAA & most HS are allowing a redo of the year...

What are the thoughts on this? Should high schools grant two additional semesters of eligibility or no? Is it even a good idea for "certain" high schoolers to look to stay back?  How will high schools even manage this influx of additional redo students? 

 

What do you mean most HS are allowing a redo? I'm not sure any are, nor do they have a good reason to. 

From what I understand you have a 2021 teammate committed to a top D1. He is considering reclassing so he can decommit in hopes of getting more scholarship money? Truth of the matter is that is sounds like a silly idea of the surface. Until the NCAA explicitly states what it's intentions are for eligibility, the MLB draft takes place, and the coach of the kid's school calls him and lets him know his scholarship is gone there is really no reason to decommit or reclass. Plus a kid talking to MLB agents should have no issues finding another school and a healthy scholarship at a highly ranked program. 

Here's one link...stating that K-12 kids can choose to RE-DO their last year if they want... 

https://www.wtxl.com/news/loca...2-schools-in-florida

Personally, I think this would be a terrible policy. The only way I would get on board is if they had a an age cap. For example, if the player turns a certain age before or during the season he can't play. So if you had a player that has never been held back and young for their grade, they would still be eligible. My 2023 is a young player as it is. I couldn't imagine next year a June or July birthday freshman now has to compete with a kid that was already held back early on and is now repeating their senior season.

Move on. If the kid is good enough they will get their shot. Let the kid start college so they can eventually graduate and start their career, which will likely be in something other than sports. 

SoFloRHP posted:

anotherparent posted:

It is rough for everyone.  Plenty of other extracurriculars have kids who have worked their whole 4 years for the culminating senior season (Science competitions, music competitions, etc.) that have been cancelled.  Think of all the students in AP classes all year, and now AP exams are all turned on their head.

To make kids come to terms with this, maybe tell them that it's like they had a season-ending injury just before their senior season.  That does happen, and it's rough, and no-one ever suggested that those kids need/deserve another high school season, they just have had to move on.

Great points... thx.  Where this all ends nobody really knows.  Appreciate the insight! 

While our governor held back closing beaches and closing restaurants for spring breakers, he stated early on that students could repeat a year. Just said it with no discussion with any county or the State Commisioner of Education. It was a political move.  Florida has lost billions in revenue. So have our counties,  tax dollars need to be spent wisely.

You asked for our opinion, as a FL resident, it's not gonna happen,  only situation MIGHT be for younger students from specific geographical areas that would need to stay back. 

If you feel that your son needs another year to get back to where he was , Florida has great JUCO programs. He needs to begin to get his info out there, asap because many programs already have 2021s committed.

 

 

 

SoFloRHP posted:

LeftyDadP9 posted:

Assuming a kid is on track to graduate, why would they even consider it?  I understand the collegiate angle of another year.  Some/most of those student-athletes are in their last years of athletics, or trying to get drafted.  The went to college for the athletics.  Those SA deserve an opportunity for a "redo" year.

HS is totally different.  While athletics is important to each player, and perhaps to some schools, the purpose of HS is to earn a diploma and move along.  Allowing an 18/19 yr old another year simply to play a sport seems ludicrous to me.  

For the record, I have a 2020 Senior, and he/we are devastated as he was starting to get draft looks.  But he's even said there would be no way he would want another year of HS.  If he didn't have college baseball in front of him, I may feel differently, but I'm not sure I would.

Thx... so in this case, we have a 2021 High D1 player considering it due to an injury...just coming back from surgery last Summer.  He's also been talking to MLB agents as well.  They believe the additional year would give him his lost year back and thinking he could maybe project/rank higher and maybe get a better scholarship/draft offer.  They're using it almost like a single Juco year but at their free public HS.   I know from our standpoint, they will likely find more 2022 P5 roster opportunitie/$$$ than 2021 at this time.  

Trust me...we also have those average players thinking the extra year will make them better/bigger/stronger...I know those guys haven't really work too hard the last 4 years and what makes them think the extra year will be any different.  Those guys are just avoiding the inevitable, in my opinion...but the injured player I question if there is any positive gains?  

It concerns me that there is NO MENTION of academics in this.

MTH posted:

High schools do not exist to provide 19 year olds a place to play baseball.  

Post of the Year

Iowamom23 posted:

SoFloRHP posted:

LeftyDadP9 posted:

Assuming a kid is on track to graduate, why would they even consider it?  I understand the collegiate angle of another year.  Some/most of those student-athletes are in their last years of athletics, or trying to get drafted.  The went to college for the athletics.  Those SA deserve an opportunity for a "redo" year.

HS is totally different.  While athletics is important to each player, and perhaps to some schools, the purpose of HS is to earn a diploma and move along.  Allowing an 18/19 yr old another year simply to play a sport seems ludicrous to me.  

For the record, I have a 2020 Senior, and he/we are devastated as he was starting to get draft looks.  But he's even said there would be no way he would want another year of HS.  If he didn't have college baseball in front of him, I may feel differently, but I'm not sure I would.

Thx... so in this case, we have a 2021 High D1 player considering it due to an injury...just coming back from surgery last Summer.  He's also been talking to MLB agents as well.  They believe the additional year would give him his lost year back and thinking he could maybe project/rank higher and maybe get a better scholarship/draft offer.  They're using it almost like a single Juco year but at their free public HS.   I know from our standpoint, they will likely find more 2022 P5 roster opportunitie/$$$ than 2021 at this time.  

Trust me...we also have those average players thinking the extra year will make them better/bigger/stronger...I know those guys haven't really work too hard the last 4 years and what makes them think the extra year will be any different.  Those guys are just avoiding the inevitable, in my opinion...but the injured player I question if there is any positive gains?  

It concerns me that there is NO MENTION of academics in this.

It's all about academics. GOV said all required testing K-12 schools is cancelled and is giving parents the option to hold their kids back a year. 

K-12 grades will not be calculated for this school year. Not sure what all of this means, yet. This would not only affect Florida but other states as well, I would think.

Nothing mentioned about an extra year of HS sports, which would be up to FSHHA.

High school sports are an extra curricular activity. You get your education and move on. An extra year of sports is absolutely unnecessary. Even a college player shouldn’t hang around to play unless it’s going to help his draft position or help get him into and partially pay for grad school (that he wanted to do anyway).

Only somewhat good thing I see as an option for this would be, the amount of college classes that are available through the high schools programs now. So you could basically do a year of classes at a lower cost then doing it at the higher price of an in-house college. Then again JUCOs are not that expensive. My daughter is doing 4 UT classes and 2 Coastal Bend classes as a high school Junior.

RJM posted:

High school sports are an extra curricular activity. You get your education and move on. An extra year of sports is absolutely unnecessary. Even a college player shouldn’t hang around to play unless it’s going to help his draft position or help get him into and partially pay for grad school (that he wanted to do anyway).

With most college degrees now in the 130 hour range, maybe it's a great chance for those 4 year guys to get an extra year with scholarship money to actually graduate the same year that baseball is over.

I'm don't see the advantage other than if kids fail because of being online.  As hard it is for average kids, I cannot imagine being the parent of a special needs student in these times.  I know there are some that will get no help at home during this time.  Their only refuge was school.

I started typing a reply earlier and deleted it. I think the only catch is if they do not allow athletes then a returning 5th year senior cannot participate in any extra-curricular activities including clubs (beta, FFA, honors clubs, or anything like that) if they could not participate in sports.  I thought it was interesting when I first saw it but I think they will follow suit with college and say if you are coming back you get another year of sports. 

Again, I don't think it is a good thing but I think it may happen and I think a lot of athletes of all sports will take it to increase their stock.  I'm pretty sure a lot of my son's friends and maybe even he would have considered it.  I know at least one kid who did not get the offer he wanted would because he was just coming into his own as a senior this year.

To follow up on something TPM mentioned, in SC, if you turn 19 during the school year you already cannot play under HS league rules.  If FL has a similar rule, it would take a major change by the governing body to allow continued athletic participation.  I seriously doubt that the FL Gov had athletics in mind when he made his comments.  

 

I personally think this is silly and ridiculous. There were 60 days or less of instruction left. Distance learning and "weather days" could eat into that. There is no reason to repeat the grade.

Academically, for the AP kids and such, they can still take the AP test in college and get credit for the class.

Thinking of it athletically, not everyone will be doing it so you're a year older than everyone in your class? Your competition just went down. Is that supposed to make you look like a stud? Just the opposite. You'll struggle even more against older guys in College. 

Hard to project the wrong way. Coaches are trying to project what they'll get on campus and how you'll compete.

HS and draft, give me a break. Numbers aren't there and the minute population does not justify the entire year and everyone forced to repeat.

For the people with injuries. How is the the public's problem? Why should I have to foot the bill for a kid to come back and make up his "injury year". Obviously you did something to cause/inflict the injury. It happens and it's noted. We have 2 kids on HS team recovering from Tommy John because they did keep their arm care in check and/or were over used in travel ball and/or had mechanical issues in their throws that lead to the injury. Again, how is this the tax payers responsibility? 

At least is in Texas and me personally, HS baseball is horrific. Travel baseball is where the competition is, where the scouts see you and where you'll get your offer to go to the next level. NOT high school.  Skill gaps, horrendous UIL officiating, basic errors and misplays (that don't happen in travel ball) are common place at the HS level. After years of highly competitive travel ball, HS baseball is a joke. Not trying to be harsh or ugly. It's a fact. Offense and defense both are lacking and anemic compared to the caliber of travel ball when playing with the gen pop of HS talent.

HS baseball is a great way to play with your friends and represent you school, stay in shape and get ready for Summer ball, but to get "Better" and get to the next level.  It just doesn't help like Travel ball does.  Change my mind....

No way in H3LL I would want my 2020 or my 2021 or any other grade to repeat .

They have prep schools and programs like IMG Academy. Go there.  I know there are "prep" schools for Hockey and other sports, basically a 13th grade, for kids that weren't good enough to graduate with an offer or the skills good enough to get one. 

Did Brett Batty dominate being a 19 year old in HS. Yep. Did he crush the ball, Yes. Did he look like a fool when my son, a starting freshman on varsity (at 14), struck him and other D1s out as Juniors and Seniors. YES!

 Are the scouts going to take you seriously if you repeat your senior year. I sure hope not.

 

 

If this player is "high D-I" then the player doesn't need an extra year of high school.  There are many JUCOs that would fit the bill and they would jump at a "high D-I" player.  

I would think a more common tactic for high school players if they are worried about losing a recruiting year (especially if the summer ends up affected) would be to reclassify back a year for recruiting purposes and plan to play for a post grad program the year after high school.  They'll finish high school on time, the post grad year doesn't cost them NCAA eligibility, and they don't "lose" a recruiting season.  Also would be helpful re jammed rosters if the NCAA maintains the decision to extend eligibility for current players.

Eokerholm posted:

 

 

Did Brett Batty dominate being a 19 year old in HS. Yep. Did he crush the ball, Yes. Did he look like a fool when my son, a starting freshman on varsity (at 14), struck him and other D1s out as Juniors and Seniors. YES!

 

 

 

Not sure he looked like a fool.  He walked out of hs with 4M.  He may have been struck out a few times, (not many), but I don't think there is a scenario where he is a fool.  It is debatable if being older helped or hurt him but either way, he did just fine.

 

LeftyDadP9 posted:

RJM posted:

High school sports are an extra curricular activity. You get your education and move on. An extra year of sports is absolutely unnecessary. Even a college player shouldn’t hang around to play unless it’s going to help his draft position or help get him into and partially pay for grad school (that he wanted to do anyway).

With most college degrees now in the 130 hour range, maybe it's a great chance for those 4 year guys to get an extra year with scholarship money to actually graduate the same year that baseball is over.

I can’t see many college seniors that come back for an extra year getting scholarship money. They will have no leverage, and college baseball (at its highest level) is a business. 

baseballhs posted:

Eokerholm posted:

 

 

Did Brett Batty dominate being a 19 year old in HS. Yep. Did he crush the ball, Yes. Did he look like a fool when my son, a starting freshman on varsity (at 14), struck him and other D1s out as Juniors and Seniors. YES!

 

 

 

Not sure he looked like a fool.  He walked out of hs with 4M.  He may have been struck out a few times, (not many), but I don't think there is a scenario where he is a fool.  It is debatable if being older helped or hurt him but either way, he did just fine.

 

You're missing the point of a 19 year old getting struck out by a Freshman.  Similar to the scenario of giving seniors another crack at an academic/athletic year. 

This wasn't about Batty and his draft. Duh!.

Painful when you have to explain things.....

Yeah... I'm still not getting it.  It's about him being older and somehow looking like a fool because a kid struck him out once that was a freshman.  Still not seeing it.  I don't think kids should get another year in HS or even want one, but not seeing how this plays.  

It's OK. My point was missed by you. Not that big of a deal and not worth explaining further. 

 

I am really getting a kick out of new members of this board carrying on about a kid being a year older in HS than his competition, or getting struck out by a freshman. I have seen kids in HS who were throwing 72 MPH heat (pun intended) absolutely carve up “elite” hitters because the hitters were so far out in front of that speed pitching. They simply could not adjust as much as they wanted to and tried. Typically good for maybe twice through the order.

Regarding kids being older, this is giving me the biggest chuckle. My son is an 18-yr old frosh D1 player and his competition was not only the 20-yr old freshman who did at least one post-grad year, but the sophomore, junior and senior guys who already had college-level experience. 

once you start playing high school varsity age baseball, age needs to be the last thing you think about because it likely is the last thing the coach is thinking about. If you are the young kid, you better show up ready to rake and battle for time. If you are the older guy, you better have that rear view mirror properly adjusted to see who is coming for your spot!

Personally, I don’t care what age my kid competes against. But I do think it would be dumb to allow a 20 year old to go back to high school just so he can get another year of high school baseball. 

Dan1122 posted:

Why not they did it for college level players. My son is a high school senior and he will have to compete for playing time at his college with a guy who graduated in 2015. So why not allow it at high school level. 

for me personally, the argument isn't about competing. It's really more of the social and life situation. I just think it is silly to let some kids come back to high school just to play another year of a sport. 

I don't really have a firm opinion on how the NCAA should handle it because my son is still 3 years away. However, I would think it would make sense for most college seniors to just move on and start their careers. If they are a legit draft prospect, then maybe they should return. Again, I don't follow the ins and outs of how the NCAA is handling it. 

By the end of senior year, I was excited (desperate) to get my son out of the house . . . and he was ready (desperate) to go. 

If you aren’t reevaluating your situation based on the new circumstances you are asleep at the wheel.  If you are bound by a NLI you may not have any options. A HS senior going back for another year of HS baseball is ridiculous IMO. A post grad year would make much more sense. That route allows for collecting college credit hours and for development of baseball skills. Neither of which will be gained by another year of HS. The big question (and what will impact most rosters) are how many college seniors will actually want to come back AND how many will be welcomed back. I imagine this is going to vary program to program. But if you are planning on any kind of walk on situation you better understand that the odds have changed considerably - and not in your favor. The same would apply if you only have an academic scholarship. What all of this means for a 2020 HS senior who hasn’t signed a NLI is that Junior College is probably your best baseball option. In all likelihood it already was but adding the potential of a 5th recruiting class at every 4 year school has emphasized the point. 

Great post adbono. If that extra year is going to make that much of a difference, go to IMG. You'll be around much better players than your typical high school, and you'll be getting great instruction for that year. 

Yes, if your kid isn't ready and needs that extra year to up his/her game, go to IMG or other post grad programs. (That's the only one I've heard of). If you don't and aren't worried about the small number of seniors coming back than move on.  How many seniors across the board are 1) eligible 2) aren't drafting 3) offered 4) will get a spot and  be able to afford that extra year 5) able to get into and pay for graduate school.... This isn't football. These aren't full rides. There are a lot of moving parts to this and I think we all have way too much free time to noodle on this and worry about the unknown right now.

I think people are making it a bigger issue than it will end up being to most programs. Sure, Maybe other programs have more or too many seniors in their classes, but the rest just don't. If your "corona" recruiting class is 3-5, yeah it just got different/harder but not that much. You didn't/couldn't draft for a reason....

I do hope they push the draft back to July to allow them a chance to get back in shape/showcase/combine and make decisions before affecting the academic year and programs in August.

Again, creating a big issue from a very very small sample set for a much LARGER population and programs for years to come.

Life happens and sometimes it gets in the way. But it still happens. 

TerribleBPthrower posted:

Great post adbono. If that extra year is going to make that much of a difference, go to IMG. You'll be around much better players than your typical high school, and you'll be getting great instruction for that year. 

It’s not on the scale, status or price tag of IMG, but TCS Post Grad in North Texas does a good job and has produced results for a lot of kids. I’m sure there are similar post grad programs in other states as well. 

SoFloRHP posted:

 

Trying to read the tea leaves of what everyone is likely going to do & the long term affects can get mind-boggling. 

What's actually mind boggling, is that at this time, anyone would ask such a question, considering no one has a clue about anything  here in FL much less about HS sports eligibility at this point in time.

JMO

 

IMG is like $70k/year.  There are a ton of post grad programs that are way less expensive.  Most play a fall and spring schedule against JUCOs and have training etc.  If the NCAA extends additional eligibility to more than just current seniors, rosters are going to be jammed up.  I could see current 2021s and 2022s reclassifying with PG etc and just planning on going Post Grad after HS.

langra posted:

IMG is like $70k/year.  There are a ton of post grad programs that are way less expensive.  Most play a fall and spring schedule against JUCOs and have training etc.  If the NCAA extends additional eligibility to more than just current seniors, rosters are going to be jammed up.  I could see current 2021s and 2022s reclassifying with PG etc and just planning on going Post Grad after HS.

The sub varsity kids are paying full boat. Don't buy for a second that their first round draft picks or national championship football team has kids paying 70k to go there. 

IMG is what it is. But for every world class athlete they get, there are 5 more who aren't. The average players subsidize it for the elite talent. Same model for the elite travel programs. 

collegebaseballrecruitingguide posted:

once you start playing high school varsity age baseball, age needs to be the last thing you think about because it likely is the last thing the coach is thinking about. If you are the young kid, you better show up ready to rake and battle for time. If you are the older guy, you better have that rear view mirror properly adjusted to see who is coming for your spot!

This gets lost on this board a lot. Once you make a varsity team age no longer matters. In 2019's case, he was playing varsity as a freshmen. The first strikeout he recorded in HS was against a 19 year old senior committed to a P5 program. The first homerun he gave up was against a random 15 year old sophomore batting 8th for the worst team in our conference. After playing varsity as a freshman you know what would've done him absolutely no good, going back and playing 14u baseball that summer against some guys who were still in 8th grade. So he played 17u and learned how to pitch and hit the hard way. 

One of the kids he rooms with is very young for their grade, moved into his dorm at 17. There are 2 24 year olds on the roster. Kids literally 7 years older than him. It doesn't matter because that is the competition. 

Whenever I see a post about a "young 15" or concerns about a 19 year old player I roll my eyes. 

Anybody willing to do another year of HS to play one more season is foolish in my opinion and the parents are even worse for allowing it to happen. Now if there are scholarship issues and a kid needs to take a PG year or head to a juco then that's a different story. But high schoolers with no offers looking to reclass because there is "less" 2021/2022 money is insane. College is what you do, baseball is what you do to make it cheaper/allow you to go somewhere you may not have been able to. Unless your kids is a potential pro (some on here are) there really isn't a business plan to follow

PABaseball posted:

 

College is what you do, baseball is what you do to make it cheaper/allow you to go somewhere you may not have been able to. Unless your kids is a potential pro (some on here are) there really isn't a business plan to follow

^^^^This.

TerribleBPthrower posted:

Dan1122 posted:

Why not they did it for college level players. My son is a high school senior and he will have to compete for playing time at his college with a guy who graduated in 2015. So why not allow it at high school level. 

for me personally, the argument isn't about competing. It's really more of the social and life situation. I just think it is silly to let some kids come back to high school just to play another year of a sport. 

I don't really have a firm opinion on how the NCAA should handle it because my son is still 3 years away. However, I would think it would make sense for most college seniors to just move on and start their careers. If they are a legit draft prospect, then maybe they should return. Again, I don't follow the ins and outs of how the NCAA is handling it. 

For some kids an additional year of eligibility is a back door into grad school. But it should only be used because the player wants the grad degree, not just to stay and play.

My son missed freshman year due to injury. He graduated on time. He used remaining eligibility to gain admittance to a top twenty-five MBA program (same school). It was his plan from the day he knew he wouldn’t be playing freshman year. 

RJM, to me, that makes total sense. I think the best way to summarize my thoughts, if there is an academic reason to stay another year, then go for it. 

Whenever I see a post about a "young 15" or concerns about a 19 year old player I roll my eyes. 

👍

High school is 19u. College is 23u. Either you’re ready or your not. My son has a May birthday. I never thought he was playing up in travel while playing with his grade Or up two years when he went to 17u. From an eligibility date deadline he was. Once he grew from 5’4” to 5’11” from 8th grade to freshman year there was no longer anything different to see on the field between him and other players. 

Worrying about when your kid’s birthday falls is just an excuse. If it matters that much people should have planned their kids to be born in the fall.

PABaseball posted:

langra posted:

IMG is like $70k/year.  There are a ton of post grad programs that are way less expensive.  Most play a fall and spring schedule against JUCOs and have training etc.  If the NCAA extends additional eligibility to more than just current seniors, rosters are going to be jammed up.  I could see current 2021s and 2022s reclassifying with PG etc and just planning on going Post Grad after HS.

The sub varsity kids are paying full boat. Don't buy for a second that their first round draft picks or national championship football team has kids paying 70k to go there. 

IMG is what it is. But for every world class athlete they get, there are 5 more who aren't. The average players subsidize it for the elite talent. Same model for the elite travel programs. 

Right.  I'm assuming that players who are considering post grad as a solution to the problems caused both by losing a recruiting cycle and crowded NCAA rosters aren't 1st round draft picks.  It doesn't make sense for the kinds of players we are talking about to spend $70k with IMG.

Article about Kentucky allowing HS students another year of HS, with athletic eligibility; it's about a football player, but many things might apply:

https://www.washingtonpost.com...chool-redo-football/

I really hope this doesn't become a trend. This is just keeps moving the age/class of the kids getting screwed back a year.

High school should be get your diploma and move on. Everything else is an extracurricular activity. If you lost a year of sports that’s the breaks. High school isn’t designed to be a minor leagues for college sports.

I'm not for it, but my kid could easily find 4-5 AP classes at his HS to take that he didn't have room in his schedule for.  Depending on where you attend, if the college accepts AP credit, you could knock out a semester of college for FREE and put some distance between the player and a nasty bubble of impacted recruiting classes.  I wouldn't do it, but I see how some kids would consider it.

@LousyLefty posted:

I'm not for it, but my kid could easily find 4-5 AP classes at his HS to take that he didn't have room in his schedule for.  Depending on where you attend, if the college accepts AP credit, you could knock out a semester of college for FREE and put some distance between the player and a nasty bubble of impacted recruiting classes.  I wouldn't do it, but I see how some kids would consider it.

My son used AP credit and a couple of summer school courses to graduate in three years. With an injury entering college and knowing he had five to play four he left with a BA and a MBA.

@LousyLefty posted:

I'm not for it, but my kid could easily find 4-5 AP classes at his HS to take that he didn't have room in his schedule for.  Depending on where you attend, if the college accepts AP credit, you could knock out a semester of college for FREE and put some distance between the player and a nasty bubble of impacted recruiting classes.  I wouldn't do it, but I see how some kids would consider it.

Do your homework.  I've got 3 kids who took between 6 and 10 AP classes in HS.  None of them, and I mean zero, counted for college credit towards their major in college.  A few classes entitled them to skip introductory level courses but resulted in a much more difficult freshman year of advanced classes.

@Smitty28 posted:

Do your homework.  I've got 3 kids who took between 6 and 10 AP classes in HS.  None of them, and I mean zero, counted for college credit towards their major in college.  A few classes entitled them to skip introductory level courses but resulted in a much more difficult freshman year of advanced classes.

I get your point but it can save $$$ tuition if they offer the credit.

@Smitty28 posted:

Do your homework.  I've got 3 kids who took between 6 and 10 AP classes in HS.  None of them, and I mean zero, counted for college credit towards their major in college.  A few classes entitled them to skip introductory level courses but resulted in a much more difficult freshman year of advanced classes.

Our HS offers what they call "dual enrollment".   For some courses, for an extra $15/class the student earns college credit via the local community college.  A student I know earned enough college credits by the time he graduated HS to be considered a "junior" when he actually started attending a 4 year university.  He was not an athlete.

My son did dual enrollment with a local 4 year school. Was able to have all those credits and his AP credits over.

As far as AP goes, while it's may be nice to get out of some intro classes. The class taught at college is usually better than the AP course in HS.

It’s typically state universities that allow college credit for AP courses. Privates typically only use AP courses for advanced placement in college such as skipping applicable 100 level courses.

I also can vouch for Dual Enrollment, and it's definitely better than AP.  My daughter (non-athlete) graduated from HS with 30 hrs of college credits already, all from dual enrollment.  She was able to take a gap semester (fall of her freshman year) and go on missions trip, which helped her figure out the major she wants in college (social work).  Even with the gap semester, she still graduates early and has 1 more year of state scholarship eligibility that she will use for her grad degree.  Her college is almost free right now with the state scholarship (thanks to lottery).  All of these w/o any athletic scholarship.

As to my baseball player son, I am one of the dads who does think about his age (and constantly have my hands slapped in this forum for doing so - rightfully).  As I shared in other posts, while other people are thinking of their son's "athletic career" while their son was still in kindergarten or grade school, it didn't even enter our minds when we put our son a grade up during elementary school.  We always felt (and still do) that starting his life a year ahead is a big advantage for the rest of his life.  But my son isn't happy with it as he thinks his numbers would be a lot impressive compared to 2024s vs. 2023s.  I keep trying to brush him off but I wonder if there comes a point in time where we need to seriously consider if a PG year would be good for him given his age.  But then I don't get the value of a PG year vs. JUCO.  Why not just do JUCO (cheaper and much better competition)?  JUCO wouldn't start his eligibility clock ticking if he later transfer to a 4 yr university, right?  And even if we don't take baseball (or athletics) into consideration, the more I look at colleges here, the more JUCO makes sense in terms of cost (start 1 or 2 years in JUCO before transfering to a 4 yr university).

I agree with RJM. Most HA and private schools will not count classes taken in HS. A friends daughter has 30 dual-enrollment credits and NYU took 12 of them, so it does happen.

I don't get the taking of AP over Dual Enrollment from private colleges.  I get it if they don't take some of the Dual Enrollment credits in the same way as AP.  But to credit an AP class over a dual enrollment class doesn't make sense to me.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

I agree with RJM. Most HA and private schools will not count classes taken in HS. A friends daughter has 30 dual-enrollment credits and NYU took 12 of them, so it does happen.

It depends.  Both my kids went to a private school and they took all the dual credit classes.  They didn't lose any hours to electives either.  Both went in with 24 hours.  It probably helps that the private school is in the same state as the school offering dual credit but my daughter is done and finished in 3 years.  Saved us a lot of money.

@atlnon posted:

I also can vouch for Dual Enrollment, and it's definitely better than AP.  My daughter (non-athlete) graduated from HS with 30 hrs of college credits already, all from dual enrollment.  She was able to take a gap semester (fall of her freshman year) and go on missions trip, which helped her figure out the major she wants in college (social work).  Even with the gap semester, she still graduates early and has 1 more year of state scholarship eligibility that she will use for her grad degree.  Her college is almost free right now with the state scholarship (thanks to lottery).  All of these w/o any athletic scholarship.

As to my baseball player son, I am one of the dads who does think about his age (and constantly have my hands slapped in this forum for doing so - rightfully).  As I shared in other posts, while other people are thinking of their son's "athletic career" while their son was still in kindergarten or grade school, it didn't even enter our minds when we put our son a grade up during elementary school.  We always felt (and still do) that starting his life a year ahead is a big advantage for the rest of his life.  But my son isn't happy with it as he thinks his numbers would be a lot impressive compared to 2024s vs. 2023s.  I keep trying to brush him off but I wonder if there comes a point in time where we need to seriously consider if a PG year would be good for him given his age.  But then I don't get the value of a PG year vs. JUCO.  Why not just do JUCO (cheaper and much better competition)?  JUCO wouldn't start his eligibility clock ticking if he later transfer to a 4 yr university, right?  And even if we don't take baseball (or athletics) into consideration, the more I look at colleges here, the more JUCO makes sense in terms of cost (start 1 or 2 years in JUCO before transfering to a 4 yr university).

Completely agree with your rationale about the JuCo route. That’s why I suggest it for most guys out of HS. I would highly suggest that you go to as many JuCo games as you can, beginning this fall, to get a feel for where your son can get on the field. I don’t know anything about JuCos in Georgia but in the regions that surround your state there are some powerhouse JuCo baseball programs. Chipola (FL), Walters St (TN), Pearl River (MS), LSU Eunice (LA), just to name a few. Teams like those are very, very good. Likely better than you think. See enough different teams play to get a feel where your son fits. Then target the appropriate schools and go to on campus prospect camps. JuCos actually use those to recruit.

Wait, I'm confused:  isn't playing at a JUCO using years of college eligibility?

@atlnon, you should plan on JuCo being a 2 year commitment if you are a recruited player - especially if on scholarship

@anotherparent posted:

Wait, I'm confused:  isn't playing at a JUCO using years of college eligibility?

Is it?  I don't even know the answer to this.  I'm so confused about which rules applies differently (or independently) to NCAA vs. NAIA vs. JUCO and which rules applies to all of them.  Like I was surprised to find out recently that you can be drafted anytime out of JUCO vs. you have to stay for 3 years in D1 (or all NCAA) schools to be eligible.

@adbono posted:

@atlnon, you should plan on JuCo being a 2 year commitment if you are a recruited player - especially if on scholarship

Do they in turn give you a commitment for 2 years worth of scholarships?  Honestly, I keep telling my son that I don't care as much about the scholarship if he goes in state public school bec he already gets most of his academic expense paid for through the state scholarship.  And if we have to pay some, I've already planned to pay for it even before I realized he was good at baseball and that athletic scholarship was even a possibility.  I would rather him play w/o the pressure of maintaining athletic scholarship.  But I do understand the value of getting an offer bec it means the coach really wants you.

@anotherparent posted:

Wait, I'm confused:  isn't playing at a JUCO using years of college eligibility?

Yes.  Playing at a JuCo counts towards the years of college eligibility.

@FoxDad posted:

Yes.  Playing at a JuCo counts towards the years of college eligibility.

But no requirement to sit out a year for transferees, right?  I guess that's what I was thinking more of (no need to waste a year to sit out if going from Juco to D1).

@atlnon posted:

But no requirement to sit out a year for transferees, right?  I guess that's what I was thinking more of (no need to waste a year to sit out if going from Juco to D1).

No requirement to sit out, but transfer from JuCo to D1 or D2 is much easier if Associates Degree is obtained from JuCo prior to transfer

@atlnon posted:

Like I was surprised to find out recently that you can be drafted anytime out of JUCO vs. you have to stay for 3 years in D1 (or all NCAA) schools to be eligible.

@atlnon

Nope.  A player can get drafted as a sophomore in college (after two years) if he is 21 years old.  Many elect to stay an additional year to raise their stock in the draft.  Not sure how having only 20 rounds in the draft this year effected staying or going though.

@atlnon posted:

But no requirement to sit out a year for transferees, right?  I guess that's what I was thinking more of (no need to waste a year to sit out if going from Juco to D1).

Correct.  Foxson transferred to a D2 after two years at JuCo.   Did not have to sit out for a year.

You don’t have to sit a year transferring from a JuCo. You have to be NCAA eligible out of high school to transfer after one year. JuCo starts the five to play four clock.

Here are the mlb draft rules. Since the draft date was moved this year so was the signing deadline. As for being twenty-one the player can be twenty as long as he turns twenty-one within a determined number of days of the draft.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/draftday/rules.jsp

@atlnon, you might consider attending this to get a feel for good JuCo baseball: