Should Penn State Football be shut down?

quote:

CoachB25 said.....Paterno is not allowed the right of due process in this case and has been conviced by the opinion of one man. I just can't think that right. I understand that the charges against him are horrific. Still, isn't the American way to give everyone due process in order to allow a person to defend themselves? Paterno's family is steadfast in that he told his superiors. From there, I don't know the extent of his involvment.

CoachB25,

Great point. I hope the Paterno family has that opportunity to due process. I'd certainly like to hear his representives tell their side of the story. Possibly they can get the vacated wins back to official wins, and get his statue reinstated.

"40M will go to the adminstration of the advocacy groups. 20M will get to victims in the form of support, not compensation."

That is probably where the trustees that resigned from Penn State will end up working.

Graham Spanier, the former PSU president, has been working on a 'top secret government project' since he was fired.

quote:

CoachB25 said.....Paterno is not allowed the right of due process in this case and has been conviced by the opinion of one man. I just can't think that right. I understand that the charges against him are horrific. Still, isn't the American way to give everyone due process in order to allow a person to defend themselves? Paterno's family is steadfast in that he told his superiors. From there, I don't know the extent of his involvment.

The only problem with that is that Paterno was the "superior". Anyone that challenged him were fired or "retired" from Penn State. Wonder why even the janitors were afraid of losing their jobs?

Paterno's family should appeal and challenge Penn State and NCAA in court if they have the gut to do it. I would like to see all the evidence and papers laid out in court.

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
Paterno is not allowed the right of due process in this case and has been conviced by the opinion of one man. I just can't think that right. I understand that the charges against him are horrific. Still, isn't the American way to give everyone due process in order to allow a person to defend themselves? Paterno's family is steadfast in that he told his superiors. From there, I don't know the extent of his involvment. I don't think anyone else here does. Thus, I think his family should have the right to have a chance to clear his name.

First, due process is for criminal proceedings, not opinion. So no, you've misrepresented the American Way. He was proven a liar, with documents and spoken word, that is indisputable.

Secondly, I think that if you read the Freeh report, or at least understood that Paterno lied over, and over, and over, to include a Grand Jury your opinion would not be what it is today.

Well said.

Here is another well written article:

http://us.cnn.com/2012/07/15/o....html?iref=obnetwork

Please....no more Paterno-workshipping...makes everyone sick.

deleted

.

"much more accurate than the way I said it. It was deserved."

Never for a moment did I think you thought that his legacy didn't deserve this punishment 55mom. We're on the same page!



.

It's kinda late to find a spot, now. Does anyone know if the no-penalty-for-transfer is only good for this season? Can redshirt seniors can sit out this year and get a '6th' year of eligibility?

deleted

.

I agree with you Coach.

.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
I'm willing to bet Penn State appeals, it goes to court and the bowl ban is reduced to two years. As I posted earlier I would like to see them successful with twenty less scholarships to show it's a farce the fourth string gets full rides while baseball gets next to nothing. Not being able to play in bowls for four years is a death penalty. Top prospects will not go there. Penn State football will become Northwestern/Indiana football until they can start rebuilding in five years. Be careful what you ask for hsbaseballweb followers. If budget becomes an issue guess what sport would be on the discussion table to ax.

How can Penn State appeal when they have agreed to the penalties?

quote:

This is an absurd statement.

I'll throw out another absurdity.

The investigation into Sandusky was on going as far back as 2007. The Centre County District Attorney was aware of the situation. The current Governor of Pennsylvania was the Attorney General of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania with knowledge and responsibilities for this case from 2008 to 2011. During that period he was campaigning for Governor and serving on the Board of Trustees at Penn State. He also accepted $600,000 dollars from the Second Mile - Sandusky's charity and convenient source of child victims.

What is absurd is that it took this long for Sandusky to be prosecuted. The grand jury system convenes once a month to hear testimony. This case didn't need a grand jury. It was not complicated at all and could have been handled in short order had the right resources been provided and had there been no dragging of feet. Cases exactly like this are handled quite regularly by one investigator and prosecuted by one DA. Multiple victims - credibility.

Penn State accepts all penalties and sanctions imposed by NCAA according an article on FoxSports.com

deleted

quote:

Originally posted by dad43:

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
I'm willing to bet Penn State appeals, it goes to court and the bowl ban is reduced to two years. As I posted earlier I would like to see them successful with twenty less scholarships to show it's a farce the fourth string gets full rides while baseball gets next to nothing. Not being able to play in bowls for four years is a death penalty. Top prospects will not go there. Penn State football will become Northwestern/Indiana football until they can start rebuilding in five years. Be careful what you ask for hsbaseballweb followers. If budget becomes an issue guess what sport would be on the discussion table to ax.

How can Penn State appeal when they have agreed to the penalties?

The article I read didn't state Penn State agreed. Based on the across the board denial from the Paterno's to the university I'm surprised.

here is the official document:

Penn State's NCAA sanctions

deleted

It's my understanding that these are not appeal-able except for the bowl suspensions nor did the university have to agree. It was handed to them.

The Paterno family still does not get it. This punishment also deals with the notion that Paterno used the football program, and by extension the whole university, as his private kingdom. (systemic abuse) otoh, the university may sacrifice any shred of legacy leftover if it helps the school get back on track.

I do feel badly for the family too. (not as badly as I do for the abuse victims) They are dealing with the death of a loved one and dealing with a huge fall from grace.

quote:

The Paterno family still does not get it. This punishment also deals with the notion that Paterno used the football program, and by extension the whole university, as his private kingdom. (systemic abuse) otoh, the university may sacrifice any shred of legacy leftover if it helps the school get back on track.

Doubt the Paterno family ever "gets it". Joe should have retired in the early 90's. The program suffered for a long long time under his "guidance".

quote:

It's my understanding that these are not appeal-able except for the bowl suspensions nor did the university have to agree. It was handed to them.

If they get the bowl ban reduced to one or two years the program will only suffer a minor blip.

quote:

Originally posted by journey2:

quote:

The Paterno family still does not get it. This punishment also deals with the notion that Paterno used the football program, and by extension the whole university, as his private kingdom. (systemic abuse) otoh, the university may sacrifice any shred of legacy leftover if it helps the school get back on track.

Doubt the Paterno family ever "gets it". Joe should have retired in the early 90's. The program suffered for a long long time under his "guidance".

I must admit I thought he was already dead. Then he and coach k did a spot on espn. and even then I thought he was retired.... oops

He had - what - 13 years to do "more". Give me a break! Seriously, how creepy to have Sandusky around for all those years after the conversation with McCreary. (and he's another one!)

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

It's my understanding that these are not appeal-able except for the bowl suspensions nor did the university have to agree. It was handed to them.

If they get the bowl ban reduced to one or two years the program will only suffer a minor blip.

I'm not so sure Papa John would want to have Penn State in any bowl they sponsor! Wonder how hard it will be to get a bid even if the ban is reduced?

I think the NCAA got this thing about right. They had issues with the Big 10 if they would have given them the death penalty and as it is, they will be reduced to the likes of bottom dwellers for several years.

If they back off the thing to only a couple of years, then you got Ohio State on one year probation for a few players trading tatoos for autographs. Hardly, seems fair if they back-off the four year bowl ban in view of what they already dished out to Ohio State. Of course, none of this really makes sense anyways.

CoachB25 - you know I respect your opinion, but I cannot see how you defend Paterno at this point. It's undisputed that he was made aware of the situation many years ago. The only due process he might be "due" at this point would be if Penn State decided to withhold some of his pension as punishment - which there has been no indication that might be the case. No person shall be deprived of their liberty or property without due process. I don't see any other due process arguments since his liberty cannot be deprived since he is dead.

deleted

Will again state that I was not defending Paterno. Just wanted this done in a court room so that all of the information could come out and through testimony with people under oath.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

It's my understanding that these are not appeal-able except for the bowl suspensions nor did the university have to agree. It was handed to them.

If they get the bowl ban reduced to one or two years the program will only suffer a minor blip.

minor blip, lol. Penn State hasn't been getting the top football recruits & the pickins are only going to get thinner.

quote:

Cleveland Dad said.....I think the NCAA got this thing about right. They had issues with the Big 10 if they would have given them the death penalty and as it is, they will be reduced to the likes of bottom dwellers for several years.

CoachB25 - you know I respect your opinion, but I cannot see how you defend Paterno at this point. It's undisputed that he was made aware of the situation many years ago. The only due process he might be "due" at this point would be if Penn State decided to withhold some of his pension as punishment - which there has been no indication that might be the case. No person shall be deprived of their liberty or property without due process. I don't see any other due process arguments since his liberty cannot be deprived since he is dead.

CD - I agree with you. I think the NCAA did a pretty fair job in doling out the punishment. This decision will be remembered for many, many years.

CoachB25 - I did not read your comments as defending Paterno. I read your comments as intending to give representation to someone who can't be defended. Although he is gone and his reputation tarnished, I'd like to hear what his representatives have to say in a courtroom. If nothing by Paterno's representatives is presented to change our minds, then we simply don't change our minds. The Freeh report was fairly clear, but I'd like to hear the other side.

deleted.

quote:

Originally posted by journey2:

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

It's my understanding that these are not appeal-able except for the bowl suspensions nor did the university have to agree. It was handed to them.

If they get the bowl ban reduced to one or two years the program will only suffer a minor blip.

minor blip, lol. Penn State hasn't been getting the top football recruits & the pickins are only going to get thinner.

One of the major recruiting strategies used against Penn State was "Is the coach going to retire next year? Will be there all four of your seasons?" It worked. The strategy along with some mediocre seasons started the "Joe must go" campaign over ten years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by 55mom:
It's my understanding that these are not appeal-able except for the bowl suspensions nor did the university have to agree. It was handed to them.

They signed off on everything: Penn State leaders signed an unprecedented "consent decree" that basically forfeited the school's right to appeal the crippling sanctions – a four-year postseason ban, four years of scholarship reductions and a $60 million fine intended to transfer football profit to funding victims of child sexual abuse

When Joe Paterno was fired, did he personally defense and suit Penn State for wrongful termination?

When the Feech Report came out, did Paterno's family suit the commission for libel and slanderous reporting?


Note that the Feech Report is commissioned by Penn State on their behalf and the investigation task force were made up of many people, NOT an opinion of ONE person.

Wow, asking that this be settled in a court of law sure stirred "stuff" up. I'll delete.

Don't worry, the civil and criminal suits in court will follow soon. That's when the tires meet the road. My bet is that Paterno and his co-horts will be suit in criminal and civil courts.

quote:

Originally posted by fenwaysouth:
Possibly they can get the vacated wins back to official wins, and get his statue reinstated.

Giving back those wins and putting back that statue would be a slap in the face to the victims of this crime. That statue and anything Paterno represents the green light for *** abuse. The Paterno family actually had the nerve to think officials should've went to them first regarding these sanctions. That just goes to show how much power Paterno wielded and how the Paterno family don't get it. What a disgrace.

What has now happened is that a second group of people have become the victims. These players at Penn State who played in those years and who didn't even know Sandusky are victims. No, their plight does not match those of the victims and I don't want to suggest that. Still, they are also now victimized since all of their efforts and accomplishments are erased. How about the other sports programs? They too are now victims. As we all know, football generates most of the revenue that supports non revenue sports like softball and baseball. I'm sure that each sport will also have to cut back scholarships.

Players can now transfer at will without restriction. They will be immediately eligible. Other schools (including Big 10) can cherry pick the Penn State roster at will, without restriction. Contact rules have been suspended for players and other schools.

The loss of 20 scholarships per year and bowl games for 4 years will cripple recruiting. Penn State has been bombed back to the football stone age.

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:
Players can now transfer at will without restriction. They will be immediately eligible. Other schools (including Big 10) can cherry pick the Penn State roster at will, without restriction. Contact rules have been suspended for players and other schools.

The loss of 20 scholarships per year and bowl games for 4 years will cripple recruiting. Penn State has been bombed back to the football stone age.

They may be immediately eligible, but let me put it in baseball terms time-wise. How easy would be be for a D1 baseball player to find a new place to play after the fall semester? Football summer sessions start in less than a month. Rosters are set. Depth charts were decided last spring. Plans are made. Only the absolute cream of the talent will find opportunities at the same level of play. It would have to be a program that runs the same offense and defense. He would still have to learn the playbook very quickly. No way he would start opening day.

Let's say your son had paid his dues for three years and was finally getting his change to start at Whatsamatta U. The coach tells him he just brought in a new player from Penn State. Your son is now being told he may get a few reps each game.

I agree. The exodus won't begin until January, but the recruiting deep freeze began last January. The only players left will be the ones nobody else wants.

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:
I agree. The exodus won't begin until January, but the recruiting deep freeze began last January.

To the best of my knowledge they only lost four recruits. I believe a draftable player in next years draft stays. He won't want to risk not picking up a new playbook quickly and making mistakes or not getting on the field as much as he would at PSU. I don't know what's occurred in the past month. I would imagine any recruiting coaches would be planting doubt on a weekly basis.