Yep, I think you are on to something there, TPM.
Yes - money helps. Huge advantage. But, the implication that the posters make is that holding the kid back is cheating, which is at least different from a moral perspective. I'm not saying I hold that view..just describing it.
If the parents lie regarding their child's birthdate, that's cheating, if the system allows them that choice, it's not.
I highly doubt that any parent who decides to allow their 5 year old to not enter school(or has ever done it) has done so because they think it will give their child an edge over athletics.
Leaving your child back (let's say mid stream) creates a stigma or perception that is not often accepted among peers and should only be done with the advice of school administration, guidance counselors and their teachers for academic reasons.
I just don't agree that giving advice to parents to seriously think about this before their kids enter school, or HS should for athletic reasons. That's just my opinion, doesn't make it right.
My objection is giving the advice to think about
I highly doubt that any parent who decides to allow their 5 year old to not enter school(or has ever done it) has done so because they think it will give their child an edge over athletics.
Leaving your child back (let's say mid stream) creates a stigma or perception that is not often accepted among peers and should only be done with the advice of school administration, guidance counselors and their teachers for academic reasons.
I just don't agree that giving advice to parents to seriously think about this before their kids enter school, or HS should for athletic reasons. That's just my opinion, doesn't make it right.
My objection is giving the advice to think about
Don't mean to sound like a jerk, but some of the comments some guys have made about kids having to compete against much older kids in same grade that have been held back in school sound hypocritical. If you urge the younge kids to buck up, suckm it up and compete with the older kids and then you hold yours back to compete against younger ones, kinda silly. Plus why should tax payers and schools play for an extra year of school for no good reason, I'm calling bull.
quote:Originally posted by New2This:quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
Brick - I am talking about planting seeds here. What kind of seeds do you think make the most sense to plant in your children?
1) After your son strikes out in the seventh inning with the tying run on base that effectively ends his and all his teammates season, you dutifully point out not to take it that hard because the kid who struck him out was older?
2) Same scenario - you encourage your son to never give up. You note how baseball is a game of failure and that the great ones are not afraid to fail. You encourage him to battle, not hang his head, and look forward to the next opportunity. The age of the participants never, ever comes up.
So what if a kid drives one year ahead of the others? Why even let it enter someone's thinking that someone else out there might have an advantage. Seems more productive to focus on creating your own advantage rather than lamenting someone elses. I am not arguing with anyone here about age providing an advantage. I can even understand some of the political arguments that lament that the system should not be gamed for sports. Even if we concede all that, I don't see the benefit of even slightly acknowledging it with your son.
What am I missing here?
CD - Just for the record, my son never worries about playing against kids that are older than he is. He has the self confidence to believe that his skills are good enough to compete with them and his formative baseball years were in a very competitive (i.e pressure) environment. Like Brickhouse said, he brought it up on his own, not me. I'm not going to tell him that being a year or more younger isn't a disadvantage because statistically I would be lying. I will tell him though to think and work on what he can do to overcome the disadvantage and that I firmly believe that in the long run he will catch up (maybe pass?), but he sure better work.
If he "never" worries about playing against older kids, why did he bring it up?
I guess I will continue the metaphor. In order to make a garden grow, seeds have to be planted and weeds have to be removed.
If my son brought that up to me, rather than acknowledge statistics, I would have challenged his willingness to compete. The reason I would have challenged him would be because I know there would be nothing he could have done about it anyways. His choices are to overcome the older kid or let that kid beat him out. I would have challenged him on that one and in effect hopefully plucked the weed out of the garden.
There is no record here for you to defend btw. Your record is your written word and nobody is keeping score. Your and Brickhouse's opinion is different than some others here and it is ok to disagree about that.
quote:Originally posted by kevin25:
Don't mean to sound like a jerk, but some of the comments some guys have made about kids having to compete against much older kids in same grade that have been held back in school sound hypocritical. If you urge the younge kids to buck up, suckm it up and compete with the older kids and then you hold yours back to compete against younger ones, kinda silly. Plus why should tax payers and schools play for an extra year of school for no good reason, I'm calling bull.
Good point made, why would someone rant about how it hurt their player but then admit if they had it to do over they would do it.
Here in Ontario you can stay in HS until you are 21. HS can be the best time of your life. 2/4 of my son's basketball team stayed back for an extra year. They did it because they loved it not to get an advantage. They were the best players and had made the team in previous years. They also went to the provincial finals and had a tournament in Las Vegas and Bulls Head Ariz.
In my son's case he took a few courses like calculus. Are you suggesting that it isn't worth while getting more education while playing a sport he loved? Several of the guys went on to play NCAA basketball.
I agree with playing up in any sport you are good enough . In basketball he was at AAAA the highest level available.
Kevin I think your logic is a little skewed. What is the rush? He will be 23 in June and has a degree from a great college.
Enjoy your life while you can. Soon enough you will have responsibilities and life is too short.
In my son's case he took a few courses like calculus. Are you suggesting that it isn't worth while getting more education while playing a sport he loved? Several of the guys went on to play NCAA basketball.
I agree with playing up in any sport you are good enough . In basketball he was at AAAA the highest level available.
Kevin I think your logic is a little skewed. What is the rush? He will be 23 in June and has a degree from a great college.
Enjoy your life while you can. Soon enough you will have responsibilities and life is too short.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Here in Ontario you can stay in HS until you are 21.
That's in Ontario. They don't let you stay forever here in HS and we pay taxes here for our school systems, whether you have kids in school or not. I am not opposed to that, but I am opposed to paying for someone's HS education until he is 21 so he can play basketball and have a blast.
JMO.
The guys who stay till 21 are guys who are trying to complete their HS degrees. Usually guys who struggled.
We used to have a grade 13 until a few years ago. I got out of HS after grade 12 and went to a college you could enter after grade 12 in another province if you had top marks.
Yes we all pay taxes to support HSs. Our school system is geared to educating kids and is not concerned about sports.
We used to have a grade 13 until a few years ago. I got out of HS after grade 12 and went to a college you could enter after grade 12 in another province if you had top marks.
Yes we all pay taxes to support HSs. Our school system is geared to educating kids and is not concerned about sports.
If your worried about your kids ability to compete against a kid one year older what in the world are you going to do when he goes to college and has to compete against players four five six years older? When things dont go well will he say "These guys are so much older than me its not fair."
Why in the world would you even for one minute offer up excuses for your son in the first place? You either have the desire to compete or you dont. If your already looking for reasons and excuses then I certainly dont understand this thread at all. The original thread started by asking a simple question. So what? Kids have all kinds of advantages over other kids. Its not wether other kids have advantages its what are you going to do about it?
The bottom line is kids that make excuses have already failed. Kids that refuse to make excuses and have a burning desire to compete regardless of the obstacles will be just fine.
Kids that compete , battle , have no excuse in them bank on their competition having the excuse virus in them. Its what gives them their advantage over those that they compete against.
Why in the world would you even for one minute offer up excuses for your son in the first place? You either have the desire to compete or you dont. If your already looking for reasons and excuses then I certainly dont understand this thread at all. The original thread started by asking a simple question. So what? Kids have all kinds of advantages over other kids. Its not wether other kids have advantages its what are you going to do about it?
The bottom line is kids that make excuses have already failed. Kids that refuse to make excuses and have a burning desire to compete regardless of the obstacles will be just fine.
Kids that compete , battle , have no excuse in them bank on their competition having the excuse virus in them. Its what gives them their advantage over those that they compete against.
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
If he "never" worries about playing against older kids, why did he bring it up?
I guess I will continue the metaphor. In order to make a garden grow, seeds have to be planted and weeds have to be removed.
If my son brought that up to me, rather than acknowledge statistics, I would have challenged his willingness to compete. The reason I would have challenged him would be because I know there would be nothing he could have done about it anyways. His choices are to overcome the older kid or let that kid beat him out. I would have challenged him on that one and in effect hopefully plucked the weed out of the garden.
There is no record here for you to defend btw. Your record is your written word and nobody is keeping score. Your and Brickhouse's opinion is different than some others here and it is ok to disagree about that.
I'm not keeping score...I ran out of chalk long ago.
There is absolutely no link between a willingness to compete and recognizing if you have a weakness or competitive disadvantage and taking actions to overcome it. Actually he's a pretty tenacious guy otherwise he wouldn't have had the success he's had so far. Recognizing a weakness does not mean you accept it being used as an excuse.
This thread is about age being an advantage / disadvantage and whatever I say is just my view. That said, I commented earlier that I believe that it is just a short term difference that in the long run evens out, assuming the talent is there.
This whole thread is about whining and bitching about how unfair things are. This whole thread is about excuse's and how to prepare your kid for failure by giving him valid excuse's.
My kid doesnt have a batting cage so no one else's kid should have one. My kid started school on time so he shouldnt have to compete against a kid that didnt. Wah wah wah. Cry me a frickin river.
For Petes sake no one is going to convince me that a kid that is talented enough to play at the next level is going to miss out on that opportunity because he was one year younger than some of the kids on his team or on another team. But you definitely can convince a player with enough excuse's if you try hard enough.
I despise excuse's. I have never given them or would allow my kids to use them. Get it done or come to the realization you just were not good enough to cut it. And then move on. Bring on the bashing I can take it. But I wont be responding to this thread anymore. It's way too pathetic.
My kid doesnt have a batting cage so no one else's kid should have one. My kid started school on time so he shouldnt have to compete against a kid that didnt. Wah wah wah. Cry me a frickin river.
For Petes sake no one is going to convince me that a kid that is talented enough to play at the next level is going to miss out on that opportunity because he was one year younger than some of the kids on his team or on another team. But you definitely can convince a player with enough excuse's if you try hard enough.
I despise excuse's. I have never given them or would allow my kids to use them. Get it done or come to the realization you just were not good enough to cut it. And then move on. Bring on the bashing I can take it. But I wont be responding to this thread anymore. It's way too pathetic.
Guess you're right Coach May. I suppose that participating in some of the discussions here is a waste of time.
quote:Originally posted by New2This:
Guess you're right Coach May. I suppose that participating in some of the discussions here is a waste of time.
I don't think that is what he meant.
Look, the bottom line is that in order to succeed in anything you have a passion for, you need to figure out what it is that YOU need to do to succeed.
There is another topic here about a parent asking questions about his son disclosing medical info in the recruiting process (read it if you haven't). Seems like his son has done pretty well in trying to make it to the next level, with no excuses.
I think that is what CM is referring too.
quote:Originally posted by New2This:
Guess you're right Coach May. I suppose that participating in some of the discussions here is a waste of time.
Only when the "one size fits all" mentality exists New2This.
If I have a Freshman son in college and he just gives up a bomb to a senior and it really gets my son down, I have no problem telling him the kid (or man) is three or four years older, more experienced and has done it before. And then I would tell him that is what your striving for, hard work and experience will take you to the same place. Learn from your mistake and move on.
I still find it funny that parents who held normal, age -appropriate kids back a year are telling parents that sent their kids to school on time all about challenges.
quote:Originally posted by workinghard:quote:Originally posted by New2This:
Guess you're right Coach May. I suppose that participating in some of the discussions here is a waste of time.
Only when the "one size fits all" mentality exists New2This.
If I have a Freshman son in college and he just gives up a bomb to a senior and it really gets my son down, I have no problem telling him the kid (or man) is three or four years older, more experienced and has done it before. And then I would tell him that is what your striving for, hard work and experience will take you to the same place. Learn from your mistake and move on.
Curious what other excuses you find acceptable?
Conversely, if your son strikes the older kid out instead of giving up the "bomb" do you tell him it must have been luck? Using your logic, it must not be talent. How about he strikes out a kid that is younger than him, do you tell him it was not much of an achievement?
If your curious CD, I will tell you how I raise my son and not go by what you might or might not think is right or wrong.
If he would have struck the kid out I would have said Great job, you know the kid is good, he is a senior, three or four years older than you and definitely more experienced than you. Great job and keep working hard.
As for a younger kid, I might have said nice job, with your experience I knew you could do it.
You see CD, your answers are not always right for everyone. Give your opinion and leave it at that.
If I can use some of your expertise, then I will and thank you for it. But like you and others do (like you just did) don't assume you are right and others are wrong just because they decide to go a different route than you suggested.
I hope I satisfied your curiosity!
P.S And I know you don't want me to get into the "weapons of mass destruction" excuse.
If he would have struck the kid out I would have said Great job, you know the kid is good, he is a senior, three or four years older than you and definitely more experienced than you. Great job and keep working hard.
As for a younger kid, I might have said nice job, with your experience I knew you could do it.
You see CD, your answers are not always right for everyone. Give your opinion and leave it at that.
If I can use some of your expertise, then I will and thank you for it. But like you and others do (like you just did) don't assume you are right and others are wrong just because they decide to go a different route than you suggested.
I hope I satisfied your curiosity!
P.S And I know you don't want me to get into the "weapons of mass destruction" excuse.
In reading through this very very long thread, I had to go back to the original question. Does age matter? It seems that we are all in agreement that age as it relates to the physical maturity of a player could indeed matter in the recruitement process. For some players, being able to physically mature an extra year could make for a more "productive" high school career and therefore effect his chances at playing at the college level.
All the other discussions about being able to take disadvantages and make them into motivators for successes are moot points. It's encouraging to hear that younger players can overcome but it doesn't change the answer to the original question...for the most part, age can matter.
All the other discussions about being able to take disadvantages and make them into motivators for successes are moot points. It's encouraging to hear that younger players can overcome but it doesn't change the answer to the original question...for the most part, age can matter.
I'm sorry this thread has become personalized. It is a subject I've been interested in for a long time and this discussion is the most substantial one I have read on it (besides Malcolm Gladwell's excellent book "Outliers").
My son has been advantaged and disadvantaged by his birth date (late September). It worked for him in youth baseball and has worked against him in high school. There's no question that another year of high school would be an advantage in his recruiting, but that's water way under the bridge and not worth lingering on.
What this conversation has solidified in my mind is the fact there are a number of different advantages in youth/high school baseball: age, geographical location, financial resources, etc. The thing I'm interested in is how do we get more kids into the advantaged category at an earlier age? I think the future of baseball is partly dependent on the answer.
Our family couldn't afford some things that other families could (private lessons, batting cages), but we could afford to play in a competitive youth league in our town that was too expensive for other families. Playing in that league jump started my son's development at an early age.
I'm interested in creative solutions that will allow more kids to overcome the arbitrary disadvantages they are handed so that their passion for baseball isn't buried before it can bloom.
My son has been advantaged and disadvantaged by his birth date (late September). It worked for him in youth baseball and has worked against him in high school. There's no question that another year of high school would be an advantage in his recruiting, but that's water way under the bridge and not worth lingering on.
What this conversation has solidified in my mind is the fact there are a number of different advantages in youth/high school baseball: age, geographical location, financial resources, etc. The thing I'm interested in is how do we get more kids into the advantaged category at an earlier age? I think the future of baseball is partly dependent on the answer.
Our family couldn't afford some things that other families could (private lessons, batting cages), but we could afford to play in a competitive youth league in our town that was too expensive for other families. Playing in that league jump started my son's development at an early age.
I'm interested in creative solutions that will allow more kids to overcome the arbitrary disadvantages they are handed so that their passion for baseball isn't buried before it can bloom.
As far as batting cages go, we didn't have the room so the money was never an issue. I got some 1" galvanized pipe and made a frame in the shape of an upside down U and sunk it in concrete. We came accross some old netting and I soft tossed to my kids for years as the hit into the netting. Maybe $75 invested. It is still in excellent shape after 10 years or so, and has served my guys well.
quote:Originally posted by sandlotmom:
It's encouraging to hear that younger players can overcome but it doesn't change the answer to the original question...for the most part, age can matter.
sandlotmom - lets assume that no one else posted in this thread and you are the only respondant.
What exactly is your answer to the original question? Age matters - end of story? If you feel I am being unfair, what is your answer for the rest of the story?
ClevDad: I don't believe you were one of the posters saying that age doesn't matter. Or saying that those that say it does are only making excuses. But I could be wrong - this is a very long thread.
It is important to hear suggestions on how to overcome disadvantages so that part of the discussion was valuable. It just seems that so many are saying that age doesn't matter as long as you have the right drive and ambition (and talent). Even if you have the drive and talent, age(or more importantly physical maturity) can still matter. It is only an excuse if you DON'T have the drive or the talent, etc. to overcome.
It is important to hear suggestions on how to overcome disadvantages so that part of the discussion was valuable. It just seems that so many are saying that age doesn't matter as long as you have the right drive and ambition (and talent). Even if you have the drive and talent, age(or more importantly physical maturity) can still matter. It is only an excuse if you DON'T have the drive or the talent, etc. to overcome.
quote:Originally posted by floridafan:
As far as batting cages go, we didn't have the room so the money was never an issue. I got some 1" galvanized pipe and made a frame in the shape of an upside down U and sunk it in concrete. We came accross some old netting and I soft tossed to my kids for years as the hit into the netting. Maybe $75 invested. It is still in excellent shape after 10 years or so, and has served my guys well.
Floridafan, we bought a golf net that sounds a lot like what you created. It decorates our front yard and has been one of the best/cheapest investments we have made.
Sooner - or later - all of the so-called advantages that some parents are able to provide fall by the wayside.
It may get your kid a few extra trophies - it may make mom and dad feel good - it may get you to be a starter on the Varsity High School team when you havent earned it - but right about the time you get to the collegiate level - whether that be at 17 or 18 or 19 years old - only talent and desire will keep you playing.
All the nonsense that some parents create to inflate their own egos - and the BS hype that follows it - falls by the wayside at the collegiate level - and beyond that level - nothing will help you other than your own talent and desire - regardless of what age you are or arent.
If you have been "advantaged" and you lack talent and desire - eventually - you will get hammered. And it will be there for all to see - including Mom and Dad.
It happens all time - and it will keep happening. So just suck it up, stop whining and play.
It may get your kid a few extra trophies - it may make mom and dad feel good - it may get you to be a starter on the Varsity High School team when you havent earned it - but right about the time you get to the collegiate level - whether that be at 17 or 18 or 19 years old - only talent and desire will keep you playing.
All the nonsense that some parents create to inflate their own egos - and the BS hype that follows it - falls by the wayside at the collegiate level - and beyond that level - nothing will help you other than your own talent and desire - regardless of what age you are or arent.
If you have been "advantaged" and you lack talent and desire - eventually - you will get hammered. And it will be there for all to see - including Mom and Dad.
It happens all time - and it will keep happening. So just suck it up, stop whining and play.
The batting cage stuff is nice, otherwise:
First of all, if someone hits a bomb off of a pitcher, big or small, younger or older, it's because he made a mistake. And strange as it sounds, you learn from your mistakes. Instead of , he was older than you or bigger than you, how about where did you place the ball son? I agree it's about experience, and FWIW, but we do we really need to tell them that? Don't they have to figure that out themselves?
When son entered college, he struggled, like most, I would always try to be cheery, and I admit I tried to cheer him up with excuses, that could range from, your first season, to it's cold, to your defense let you down (don't ever do that). My son being polite, never said a word.
One day we told him he just plain s*cked (yeah older big guys do like everyone else) he was sooo happy. Thank you mom, I'd rather you tell me that than give another reason. That was it after that, he didn't need for me to say another word. Kids do not like it when we offer excuses, hope that some of you learn from my mistake. The key is to be supportive, don't feed them with lots of stuff they already know.
Sandlotmom, of course it matters in the recruitment, lots of things matter. Problem is accepting where you are in that process. If you know that you need another year of development (not just for physical maturity), JUCO is a great alternative, ask Fanofgame. The problem is that most folks don't like those options, and because of transfer rules it does make it more difficult to transfer into a D1 program from other divisions or another D1, but I don't see that being a problem, some do.
When son entered college, he struggled, like most, I would always try to be cheery, and I admit I tried to cheer him up with excuses, that could range from, your first season, to it's cold, to your defense let you down (don't ever do that). My son being polite, never said a word.
One day we told him he just plain s*cked (yeah older big guys do like everyone else) he was sooo happy. Thank you mom, I'd rather you tell me that than give another reason. That was it after that, he didn't need for me to say another word. Kids do not like it when we offer excuses, hope that some of you learn from my mistake. The key is to be supportive, don't feed them with lots of stuff they already know.
Sandlotmom, of course it matters in the recruitment, lots of things matter. Problem is accepting where you are in that process. If you know that you need another year of development (not just for physical maturity), JUCO is a great alternative, ask Fanofgame. The problem is that most folks don't like those options, and because of transfer rules it does make it more difficult to transfer into a D1 program from other divisions or another D1, but I don't see that being a problem, some do.
quote:Originally posted by workinghard:
If your curious CD, I will tell you how I raise my son and not go by what you might or might not think is right or wrong.
If he would have struck the kid out I would have said Great job, you know the kid is good, he is a senior, three or four years older than you and definitely more experienced than you. Great job and keep working hard.
As for a younger kid, I might have said nice job, with your experience I knew you could do it.
You see CD, your answers are not always right for everyone. Give your opinion and leave it at that.
If I can use some of your expertise, then I will and thank you for it. But like you and others do (like you just did) don't assume you are right and others are wrong just because they decide to go a different route than you suggested.
I hope I satisfied your curiosity!
P.S And I know you don't want me to get into the "weapons of mass destruction" excuse.
workinghard, I cannot speak for CD and don't intend to try.
From my perspective, all I can say is those observations are not ones I would make to my son. I just don't feel they accurately reflect the way the game is played above the HS level.
Talent, ability and results don't equate with or derive from experience. A freshman pitcher could get a senior hitter out merely because the senior did not do his job, not because the freshman did his.
For instance, the hitter might have been set up for a FB away, which is where the pitch was called, and the pitch was thigh high on the inside half and just didn't get hit. Happens all the time in baseball.
In that situation, the coaches are not going to be happy because the pitcher got a result but did not do his job. The more he does not do his job and just relies on the result, whether pitching or hitting, the more likely the results won't be positive.
Sometimes you throw a great pitch and it gets hit. Again, nothing about experience or age there, either. Sometimes both a pitcher and hitter do their job.
Personally, as a parent, I stayed out of commenting, especially to him, on why I thought our son achieved his results. I was not at practice. I didn't know what the coaches were teaching him. I did not know the approach in any individual AB and did not know the scouting report on the opposition. To imply to him a result was associated with his experience or that of his opposition, in my view, does not acknowledge the talent and ability it takes to play a very hard game at a very high level, or the preparation and coaching that combines with talent and ability to be the reasons between success and failure over the course of the college and or Milb season.
In my view,there is the one aspect where I agree experience makes a difference and that is the mental side of truly understanding how the game is played and to manage the highs and lows.
Some days he was 0-4 and really happy with his performance..not the result but the performance.
Some he was 4-4 and very dissatisfied with the performance.
When you are playing above HS, good coaching combines with seasoning to help the mental approach where good players don't fool themselves and don't judge themselves by the result. They critically analyze the result in light of the approach and execution of the approach. When they do, they always find ways to improve on each. They don't fool themselves with easy answers or answers that had no relevance on that pitch, that hit, that AB or that play.
quote:Originally posted by infielddad:
When you are playing above HS, good coaching combines with seasoning to help the mental approach where good players don't fool themselves and don't judge themselves by the result. They critically analyze the result in light of the approach and execution of the approach. When they do, they always find ways to improve on each. They don't fool themselves with easy answers or answers that had no relevance on that pitch, that hit, that AB or that play.
IMO - That is very true.
infielddad-
Glad you're not speaking for CD, he does a fine job himself.
As for your feedback, I appreciate it. Exactly what this site is for, your opinion. I happen to disagree. Doesn't make me or you right or wrong. What works for you, great, what works best for the way I raise, motivate, or even criticize my son is in regards to "excuses" is what works best for me.
It does not affect anyone else one iota.
Again, feedback and opinions are greatly appreciated, just not deciding what is right and wrong are the labeling from some when they disagree with ones opinion.
I guess the word of the day is "whining".
Glad you're not speaking for CD, he does a fine job himself.
As for your feedback, I appreciate it. Exactly what this site is for, your opinion. I happen to disagree. Doesn't make me or you right or wrong. What works for you, great, what works best for the way I raise, motivate, or even criticize my son is in regards to "excuses" is what works best for me.
It does not affect anyone else one iota.
Again, feedback and opinions are greatly appreciated, just not deciding what is right and wrong are the labeling from some when they disagree with ones opinion.
I guess the word of the day is "whining".
quote:Originally posted by CADad:
The batting cage stuff is nice, otherwise:
Agreed, maybe it should be moved on over to the "Unusually Unusual".
IMO - I cannot imagine - as a player - a coach - or as a Dad - ever thinking about what age the opponents were.
Seems like a huge distraction to me - at best.
At worst - it seems like a prepackaged excuse to explain away failure.
Seems like a huge distraction to me - at best.
At worst - it seems like a prepackaged excuse to explain away failure.
No one has came up with a valid reason why a parent should be allowedto hold an academically sound student back in school in order to take advantage of playing against younger kids in same grade. Haven't seen one yet. Also why should tax payers foot the bill for this?
Kevin,
That is a good question. One for baby boomer parents to argue about - and maybe even sue each other over - LOL. In true Boomer fashion.
But it isnt a question a true athlete thinks about - or even cares about.
A true athlete thinks about performing and winning.
The football player thinks about seperating his opponent from the ball. The boxer thinks about knocking his opponent out. The hitter thinks about getting the sweet spot of the bat on the ball.
No true athlete I know thinks about someones birthday. Sort of a weird thing to think about IMO.
That is a good question. One for baby boomer parents to argue about - and maybe even sue each other over - LOL. In true Boomer fashion.
But it isnt a question a true athlete thinks about - or even cares about.
A true athlete thinks about performing and winning.
The football player thinks about seperating his opponent from the ball. The boxer thinks about knocking his opponent out. The hitter thinks about getting the sweet spot of the bat on the ball.
No true athlete I know thinks about someones birthday. Sort of a weird thing to think about IMO.
itsinthegame- Nothing like those two weeks of summer football practice as a sophomore, before they split up varsity and jv.
Vicarious,
You are right about that.
I played for 4 years in high school - 3 on Varsity - at a very large school.
That second year - when I would get knocked out by the 220 pound senior fullback - or knock out the wide receiver daring to come right down the middle of the field - I remember all sorts of things. Some good and some bad.
But I definitely dont remember ever caring about someones birth date. LOL
You are right about that.
I played for 4 years in high school - 3 on Varsity - at a very large school.
That second year - when I would get knocked out by the 220 pound senior fullback - or knock out the wide receiver daring to come right down the middle of the field - I remember all sorts of things. Some good and some bad.
But I definitely dont remember ever caring about someones birth date. LOL
quote:No one has came up with a valid reason why a parent should be allowed to hold an academically sound student back in school in order to take advantage of playing against younger kids in same grade.
You are right. Nobody has. Because I am pretty sure nobody here supports doing this.
But there HAVE been, in this thread, accusations that parents have held their kids back for purely athletic reasons, and assumptions that any kid who turns 18 before his senior year was held back for purely athletic reasons.
Which is unadulterated cr*p. And this statement of yours implies the same.
TPM: That is the real issue...Now that we've established that not being physically mature can be a recruiting disadvantage, how far is a player willing to go to bring themselves to an even level? Does the player put playing baseball at the college level ahead of all other goals? If yes, JUCO is a great option for the younger player(all else such as talent and drive being equal). Redshirting is also an option for those that are lucky enough to have an offer from a coach that sees the potential in growth. I've seen a couple of smaller, younger players redshirt as a Freshman and that extra year made a HUGE difference not just in their height and weight but also in their power and playing ability. The problem is in making the college team when you are behind. It's too bad that the timing of the physical growth for some is often during the recruiting process or even toward the end when it is too late. My own son made a big leap in velocity when he grew a couple of inches and put a few more pounds on. His talent and dedication to the sport did not change, it was purely a physical improvement for him. As an athlete he had been looking forward to the day and was pleased when it finally came.
For many, going four years at a college they like for the academics, and reasons other than baseball is what forces them to forego the JUCO route and end their baseball years. Had they been a year older in HS, they could possibly have had more options (not guaranteed, but possible). How much do you help your kid have more possibilities?
For many, going four years at a college they like for the academics, and reasons other than baseball is what forces them to forego the JUCO route and end their baseball years. Had they been a year older in HS, they could possibly have had more options (not guaranteed, but possible). How much do you help your kid have more possibilities?
Sandlotmom,
Great summary to the essence of the thread that many seemed to miss or just ignored.
Well stated!!
Great summary to the essence of the thread that many seemed to miss or just ignored.
Well stated!!
Prime9,
I would agree there is a lot of great information in that post from Sandlotmom...to the extent of the information.
My own view is that it misses a large number of those who go to college and play baseball. As I read the post, it focuses on DI and JC and, as I have posted way too many times, those are not the only options. I realize they are the two most "valued" in terms of college baseball.
In my view, making baseball so important in college needs to be considered and examined, and maybe going to college should be the priority and necessarily baseball would not be the priority, i.e. the end result.
Personally, I don't think the experience, after college and after baseball, can support that making one an option more important than the other is complete.
Our son, and most of his teammates, completed his college degree in 4 years, and had a great experience in college.
Our son never set foot on a DI field but competed equally with DI players, had the opportunity after college, and is now back coaching in college.
To coach in college, with the goals he has set, he not only needs his BA, he needs a Masters, which he has researched and will complete.
As with everything, options are open if you are lucky enough to find them..or have them find you. Little doubt DI is the best and most appreciated option.
College baseball has other great options where "age deficient" or "undersized" or whatever they are called, DI type players get to compete. By that, I don't mean to state they don't have some DI skills, they absolutely do. They don't have enough, for whatever reason, to be DI recruits.
To my view, it isn't where they started as college recruits that is so important, it is where they end and the experience they have had, and how experienced they are for that life which does not involve baseball. My view is that life that does not involve playing baseball is the true and real significance of the process of college baseball recruiting, no matter what the graduation age.
For those focused on DI, I have very little to add to this discussion since our son was not a DI recruit. For everyone else, the options are not constricted by many of the views this thread presents.
I would agree there is a lot of great information in that post from Sandlotmom...to the extent of the information.
My own view is that it misses a large number of those who go to college and play baseball. As I read the post, it focuses on DI and JC and, as I have posted way too many times, those are not the only options. I realize they are the two most "valued" in terms of college baseball.
In my view, making baseball so important in college needs to be considered and examined, and maybe going to college should be the priority and necessarily baseball would not be the priority, i.e. the end result.
Personally, I don't think the experience, after college and after baseball, can support that making one an option more important than the other is complete.
Our son, and most of his teammates, completed his college degree in 4 years, and had a great experience in college.
Our son never set foot on a DI field but competed equally with DI players, had the opportunity after college, and is now back coaching in college.
To coach in college, with the goals he has set, he not only needs his BA, he needs a Masters, which he has researched and will complete.
As with everything, options are open if you are lucky enough to find them..or have them find you. Little doubt DI is the best and most appreciated option.
College baseball has other great options where "age deficient" or "undersized" or whatever they are called, DI type players get to compete. By that, I don't mean to state they don't have some DI skills, they absolutely do. They don't have enough, for whatever reason, to be DI recruits.
To my view, it isn't where they started as college recruits that is so important, it is where they end and the experience they have had, and how experienced they are for that life which does not involve baseball. My view is that life that does not involve playing baseball is the true and real significance of the process of college baseball recruiting, no matter what the graduation age.
For those focused on DI, I have very little to add to this discussion since our son was not a DI recruit. For everyone else, the options are not constricted by many of the views this thread presents.