Size DOES matter

Poppi

I respectfully disagree


One of our top players this past year is 6ft 7 inches tall---his parents are no taller than 5-10

Height some times skips a generation in a family

The calculator also assumes full growth by 17.5 years of age. This is not accurate as well.

I continued to grow taller until I was 20 or 21.

I agree with TR, genetics does sometimes skip a generation, as seen in the case of our son.

I also agree with some other stuff you said, though kids seem to be taller these days. Whether anyone is stretching the truth, it really doesn't matter, you can be 7 foot and still not have the talent needed for the next level. Some people here think that height becomes an automatic go ahead (to the next level). The same with the smaller player, if you have the talent (yeah, they all play with "heart") you get the opportunity.

The important "T" is not how Tall you are, but how Talented.

Why do so many worry about something they cannot control? I just don't get it.

I didn't look at these particular charts. I've seen otherts. The charts don't account for early and late bloomers. The don't account for a kid who just had a growth burst or is about to have one. These charts have had my son anywhere from 5'9" to 6'6" depends on whether it's before or after a growth burst.

The pediatrician told us a wives tale a boy will usually grow to be 6-8 inches taller than his mother as long as the dad is a normal height. She added look back a generation for exceptions. Not quite sixteen my son is five inches taller than his mother. He's my height.

The charts cover ~90% of the population. Growth spurts, grandparents etc. are in that other 10%. There will be outliers, and lotto winners. How many do you know?
1 in 1000 males are over 6’4”.

TPM. If a kid is 7’, and he can walk and chew gum, he’s going to college for free. Maybe not Duke, but some coach will risk a scholarship on him. One wiki definition of talent is: “the potential or factual ability to perform a skill better than most people” Thus Tall = (a) talent.

Really, I know of a 6'7" HS player who wasn't even recruited.
Grades, lack of talent for a pitcher/player. If someone thought that he had the goods, they would have recruited him, even on the JUCO level.

Poppi - what exactly is your point in this post?

quote:

Dads (and moms) who exaggerate their son's size. I mean there are so many future 7 footers on this site that Roy Williams must be thrilled! No random sampling has so many tall/ /big boys.

quote:

Dads (and moms) who exaggerate their son's size. I mean there are so many future 7 footers on this site that Roy Williams must be thrilled!

1) It's not a basketball site. Several regular posters of parents of college and pro baseball players. Others are parents of high school players who plan to play college baseball. Most college and pro pitchers are tall. While there are plenty of college position players from 5'10" to 6', the prototype player to the scouts from a size standpoint is 6'1" to 6'3".

"If a kid is 7’, and he can walk and chew gum, he’s going to college for free. Maybe not Duke, but some coach will risk a scholarship on him"

2) It's not a basketball site. Size guarantees nothing in baseball. It may provide higher projectability and opportunity. But the player still has to produce.

I must have bad eyes because with the exception of the really tall or really small, I can't tell how tall a kid is out on the field. If there are three kids say out in the outfield, how can you tell if he's 5'10" or 6' or 6'2"? Maybe it's more noticable when they are at bat, I don't know? I'm one of those hoping my kid grows much taller than his parents, otherwise there is nothing else I can do! Mine is a fr. playing JV ball, and he's not of the tallest kids, but he's not of the smallest either. He's pretty much close in height to most of the kids. I'm just looking to forward to the upcoming season!!

I took out the baby books.... it was fun on a cold rainy day ... the calculators issued a 4 inch difference for both sons when calculated from age 5. The second link was more accurate for both.

My mother's side has height, but my husband is adopted and is over 6 feet. Since they both have always been tall, we've never sweated the growth issue. They eat well and have always exercised. It's nice to have sons who can reach the top shelf in the pantry.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
Size guarantees nothing in baseball. It may provide higher projectability and opportunity. But the player still has to produce.

With that true statement, discussion over.

TPM


Why are you declaring "discussion over" and who are you to so make that claim ??

Poppi,

Of course size matters.

Here are some more of those rarities...

There have been thousands of these rarities...

How Tall are MLB Players

This was written before Pedroia and Rollins became MVPs and Lincecum won the Cy Young.

Poppi:

quote:

If dad is 5'10" junior is NOT going to be 6'3"!

I humbly disagree .

My paternal grandfather was 5'6" on a good day; grandmother was 5'3" in heels

Father was 5'10"; mother is 5'8"

I am 5'10"; wife is 5'8" (and she's taller than both of her parents).

Son is 6'4", 15-yr-old freshman

In most cases a parent stating the size of their son is like them telling you his fastball speed. The truth is usually an inch or two shorter than actual.

I am not talking about anything specific to this thread, only what I have experienced.

e.g. When my son was 13 another dad stated that his son just had a doctor's appointment and his son was 6'2". The kid must have shrunk or the doctor didn't notice his platform sneakers because at 16 he is under 6'.

It might be a little late for some of you unless you kept records but there is an old wives tale that states you measure your child at 2yrs old then double that height to get their adult height. I guess you could call your pediatrician and ask them for this information if you want to know.

quote:

In most cases a parent stating the size of their son is like them telling you his fastball speed. The truth is usually an inch or two shorter than actual.

These parents are quoting the size that will be printed in the game program.

ODDS

It is true that size can create some interest. However, IMO this is vastly over rated.

I don't have the real numbers, but at any given time there will be 750 players in the Big Leagues.

The odds of being one of those 750 are very slim, no matter how tall a player might be.

Those 6-1 and above, the odds might be .00015%
Those 6-0 and less, the odds might be .00010%

I just made those figures up, trying to make a point. All players need to buck the odds to reach the top. Sooner or later it will be determined by several things, but being tall won't end up being the determining factor. Size can create interest, just like bloodlines, but then all those darn games keep getting in the way.

PG,

That may be true for reaching the bigs, But size does HELP in getting noticed easier for college or getting drafted.

You guys going to give the same score at a showcase to a kid who is 5' 9" 165lbs and throwing 85 as you are for the kid who is 6' 2" and 165lbs and hitting 85 as well on the mound? That is where size matters IMO. One is a "projectable" player and one is not. Obviously both need to perform to have a shot.

redsox,

That is a good point. Of course, there would be much more that would be involved in a grade.

Everyone knows that size is an advantage. The problem I have is that some make it sound like smaller players are doomed. The numbers really don't lie... There are many players and some among the most successful who were not big or tall.

The odds are stacked against everyone when it comes to getting a college scholarship. If we are talking about any one individual making it to the Big Leagues the odds are horrible. Yes, the odds might be even worse for the undersized player, but the odds are so bad for any individual it just doesn't matter. The odds are long, yet many smaller players have overcome those odds. I'm not making this stuff up!

All things being equal... The taller player will likely create the most interest. However, all things are never equal, there is always a point of seperation. Smaller players should strive to find that.

I suppose it also depends on the position you play.

Very interesting discussion. Thank you for the lively feedback.

fillsfan states:
In most cases a parent stating the size of their son is like them telling you his fastball speed. The truth is usually an inch or two shorter than actual.
IMO this is exactly the truth, and the reason I started this whole discussion!

PGStaff: You state that you’re making numbers up, but I believe you’re in the ballpark. The slope is correct for sure.
____
Those 6-1 and above, the odds might be .00015%
Those 6-0 and less, the odds might be .00010%
____
Continuing, just rough numbers…
Six-foot is the ~75th percentile for a fully mature male, therefore if we take you numbers and multiply by how many of these types exist we get:

Those 6-1 and above, the odds might be .00015% / 0.25 = 0.0006%
Those 6-0 and less, the odds might be .00010% / 0.75 = 0.00013%
Or ~5x as likely for any particular tall kid to 'make it' as compared to any particular small kid. Unless, of course, you already fudged this into your back-of-the-envelope calculations.
Ps: I think my arithmetic is correct, but the premise may not be.

Poppi,

I must admit... I wasn't taking into acount someone who understands arithmetic! What does back-of-the-envelope mean?

Statistics and theorems do not take into consideration "HEART and DESIRE"---give me a team of Pedroias and I will challenge anyone

quote:

Statistics and theorems do not take into consideration "HEART and DESIRE"---give me a team of Pedroias and I will challenge anyone

My son will play on that team.

My son has a kid on his JC team who is a CF. About 5'6 maybe. Flat out can play. won a starting spot as a true freshmen. lead off batter. Spark to the entire team, fast, great at tracking balls, he has made several ESPN plays and I wouldnt trade him for a big guy anyday.

Poppi,
Now if you had said "If Dad is 5'8" son is NOT going to jump to 6'3"" then your were more likely to be right, but I have seen too many kids end up between 6'2" and 6'4" with dads that are 5'9" or 5'10". My dad is 5'10" and my brother is around 5'2" My cousin is 6'4" and his dad is about 5'9". My nephew is about 6'1" and his mother is maybe 5'4" and dad is around 5'9". So I have several examples in my family that dispute your claim.

My son is estimated to be 6'4" with me being just barely over 6' and his mom being 5'8". This was calculated on both of your links. It was also estimated by the pediatrician at age 3 when they are half their final height. (He was 3'2").

If you are trying to tell the people that are being overly optimistic about their kid's height, that the odds are against them if they end up being below 5'10, then say so. Otherwise I think people are just confused to your point.

Can we just STOP posting threads about size in the pre-hs forum. I think we have pretty much covered it. If they can't play when they are juniors and seniors, we shouldn't give a d*mn about their height. Forum moderators please delete any threads about player height or height projections etc.... in the future, we are clogging up the information super highway with useless cr*p.

......walk and chew gum at the same time that is funny

quote:

Originally posted by Poppi:
The charts cover ~90% of the population. Growth spurts, grandparents etc. are in that other 10%. There will be outliers, and lotto winners. How many do you know?
1 in 1000 males are over 6’4”.

TPM. If a kid is 7’, and he can walk and chew gum, he’s going to college for free. Maybe not Duke, but some coach will risk a scholarship on him. One wiki definition of talent is: “the potential or factual ability to perform a skill better than most people” Thus Tall = (a) talent.

quote:

Originally posted by HunterMac95:
Can we just STOP posting threads about size in the pre-hs forum. I think we have pretty much covered it.

I am pretty much in agreement with you but no one can stop anyone from posting a topic.

I just don't get the obsession that some of the younger players parents have these days, not just about height, but other things as well.
Got to be bigger, got run faster, got to throw harder, got to play more to get better than anyone else, got to play the best travel team, got to go to a D1 school, got to make a pro team someday, etc., etc.

We never thought about half the things when son was younger that some of you come up with.

Maybe that's why our player did so well.

If Poppi thinks a player will get a baseball scholarship because a player is 7'regardless to his talent and grades...than I hope his son is tall

I didn't start this height / size thing; I just followed up on it. I stumbled onto this site, and every thread I read has some parent(s) stretching the truth about how big their kid is!

My buddy is small. Small hands and feet, and truly paranoid about the gift he did not get from genetics...

His most often stated platitude was "size doesn't matter". I finally told him a fact, "I've NEVER heard a girl say that". He doesn't say it anymore.

I know, it wasn't diredirected directly to you. I agree, too much here all the time about size.

I look at it as the glass half empty or is the glass half full. Size matters to those who have it and it matters to those who don't have it.

If you are tall and think that's going to get you a scholarship, you could be wrong, it you think that because you don't have it and no one will notice you, you could be wrong also.

Don't let size or lack of get in the way of your goal, how hard you work on and off the field (classroom), and how talented you are, how well you play your position really is the key.

JMO.

I noticed on the height forecasters in the very first post on this thread that it calls for Dad AND MOMS current height to project Jr's adult height. I played around with the forecaster for while and it seems Mom's height is weighted equally. I knew I shouldn't have married that 5'0 gymnast. My kids can tumble all over the infield but just can't see over the mound.

quote:

My kids can tumble all over the infield but just can't see over the mound.

Chris Cates was a 5'3" shortstop for Louisville a couple of years ago. He said his favorite insult was, "Mow the grass so the shortstop can see."

My son’s CYC basketball coach a few years back was a former U. of Oklahoma football player. He was BIG, and a tremendous athlete; he was a tight end. His wife was a beautiful, athletic, but petite former college athlete. Their kids got the worst of both worlds. They are both great athletes, but the boy got mom’s light frame, and he is not tall. Their daughter is big and strong. She can play baseball or roundball against boys her age, and easily hold her own.
My point – when seeking a mate most of us don’t think, “Wow, she’s big, she’ll make athletic babies”. We’re attracted to a number of things (in women) and size is not one of them.
(The story is true, the moral is just my musing…)

A friend was an All-American baseball player. He made it to AAA. His son has limited ability. He jokingly said, "I polluted the gene pool with my wife."

Size does matter.

Isn't that what the Oregon State football team said after their 5'7 freshman running back ran for nearly 200 yards against USC for an upset win?

There are just as many big kids that can not play as there are small kids that can not play. If you can play you can play. If you can't you can't. The most important things a player has or does not have can not be measured and can not be bought.

Here's a photo taken last week of my son, who is a freshman at a D1:



He's 5'11", but weighs only 146. After 40 at bats, he is hitting .325 with 3 doubles and a triple. Like Coach May said, if you can play you can play!