Size DOES matter

My son is a small kid so I always read “small man threads” and Coach May comments with interest.

“The most important things a player has or does not have can not be measured and can not be bought.”

I don’t know the kid featured in these Links (I am sure Coach May does) but I think at 5’6” this kid has what the Coach is speaking of.


http://www.thedirtbags.com/Hanover_Retired.htm


http://www.2theadvocate.com/sports/41725772.html

Want to or not, you have to worry about height. We never considered this with our son until the baseball world brought it to our attention. He is a southpaw freshman throwing 86-87 mph (as so says the gun, if correct). He has alot of talent for his age and gets alot of attention. The coaches claim he is D1 material and could go past that if he gains some height. We were at the Elite world series last summer as 14U and he was not as tall as those boys from East Cobb, but as tall as some others. He is average for his age right now, but parents are not tall. He has natural stength in upper and lower body. Maybe his average height creates this strentgh, I don't know. It was even posted on the web sight after the Elite World Series by a coach stating that give him the big boys all day throwing the fast ball and they could handle them, but it was the 5'2 lefty that couldn't throw a straight ball that got them. Now that coach knows he was atleast 5'7 then, but I guess he seemed so short for a pitcher at that level of tournament play that he was regarded as 5'2. This is when we realized that this game too, is about height. I hope most of the posters are wrong and he has a shot being average height, but the general opinion is that the odds are against him. The only people that don't worry about the height issue or those who have tall players, or were like us just enjoying the moment of success by ignorance of the subject. I wish this would have never been brought to our attention. We find ourselves now measuring him up to every pitcher we see. Not on talent, but on height. With having the speed, movement, and control it will make for a miserable next three years to see if we gave him the bad height genes.

quote:

has a shot being average height, but the general opinion is that the odds are against him. The only people that don't worry about the height issue or those who have tall players, or were like us just enjoying the moment of success by ignorance of the subject. I wish this would have never been brought to our attention. We

BBB08,

The odds are against everyone. There is nothing that can help make him taller. Concentrate on what he can control.

Check out this little kid in 2003... He threw in 71 games in the Big Leagues for the Houston Astros last year. He's really about 5'9".
Left Handed Pitcher

I know several sub 6'0 LHP pitching at major D1 schools. One recently verballed to an ACC school and he is 5'8. If your son is a LHP and throwing strikes in the 87-88 range and that young your worrying about the wrong things and listening to the wrong people.

I have to 2nd Coach May: if your son is a lefty, at 14, throwing that heat and keeping elite hitters off-balance...your last worry is his height.

I know a rightie...the college website has him at 6'0"...but that's stretching it. He is a 93 mph pitcher with very good control and excellent off-speed pitches. D1 program, and plenty of interest from pro scouts.

Talent matters...height is the "du jour" of some current scouts, coaches and parents. It may get a look in some corners...but talent wins out.

After watching a D1 college series this week-end against a CA team I was struck (just figuratively) by how short some of this colleges players were. Many listed @ 5'11" to 6' were maybe that height in cleats and weighed between 145-165. These players were starters and hit the ball well. They had some big pitchers but the majority of the position players were under 6'.

So having followed this thread I say "size doesn't matter if you can play".

My son is a 6'5" 190 HS freshmen. he is lucky if his fastball hits 65 mph. He got to pitch yesterday and had three scoreless innings. Struck out 3, no walks and 3 hits. Unless a miracle happens, he isn't playing pro or D1. He probably won't play HS varsity. I figure he has a 50-50 shot at making his sophmore team next year. What I do know is that I am going to have a lot of fun time watching him while it lasts and I will be there to console him when it ends. Stop worrying about what might happen and enjoy what is happening before it is too late.

Does seem like the MLB is focused on Heighth and weight.
Avg heigth for Team Japan WBC team position players 5-10 1/2 avg weight 181.

Seems like Japan focus on team and performance works for them.

Reply to 27"sDad: Please son't let me mislead you. When I stated that what he was gunned at, it was just recently when he was 15+ not 14. Elite World Series was 8 months ago when he played 14u. Do not have a clue what he was throwing then. I really don't know that I think it is great idea to even put a gun on players this young.
And for bwood: we are enjoying the moment believe me, but we have gotten caught too many times enjoying the moment and not preparing for future in many areas. I would enjoy a vacation at the beach, but if a showcase or tournament is more important to his future (if he has one) then I need to be prepared to do that instead! Grades we are preparing for regardless of ball. It is a fun time, but alot of hard work to help these players to the next level and very expensive.

quote:

Originally posted by bwood:
My son is a 6'5" 190 HS freshmen. he is lucky if his fastball hits 65 mph. He got to pitch yesterday and had three scoreless innings. Struck out 3, no walks and 3 hits. Unless a miracle happens, he isn't playing pro or D1. He probably won't play HS varsity. I figure he has a 50-50 shot at making his sophmore team next year. What I do know is that I am going to have a lot of fun time watching him while it lasts and I will be there to console him when it ends. Stop worrying about what might happen and enjoy what is happening before it is too late.

Nice job. I couldn't have said it better. My youngest was a very lanky 6'1" and had so much natural snap he could throw it 85 (with movement) with very little effort. I hired a pitching coach for a while who said he was D-1 material if he worked hard at it. But he didn't like baseball - he'd rather play guitar in a band with his friends, so that's what he did, with my support (and some private, selfish regret). Now he's on the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower in the Persian Gulf (I think). I couldn't be prouder of him.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Check out this little kid in 2003... He threw in 71 games in the Big Leagues for the Houston Astros last year. He's really about 5'9".
Left Handed Pitcher

That is too funny! What a coincidence! My son was just telling me about him today, he threw in a Spring traning game after Hampton and he put his pants on just like my son. Small world...

This is what I’m writing about. Perfect examples!

bwood and EC_Dad and 27"sDad,

You guys are SO FULL OF IT!!!

You’re “fibbing”.

I’ve been to BIG time tournaments here in the Northeast as well as So Cal where I’m originally from. 6’4” and above HS freshman are an extraordinary rarity.
Maybe you guys should start a bass fishing site. Those guys fib all the time too.


* Brian Shanberg you remember this because it was a bizarre, once in a lifetime kind of thing. And you don’t even remember the little guy’s name.

* And GapFinder. In Japan those guys ARE big.

quote:

bwood and EC_Dad and 27"sDad,

You guys are SO FULL OF IT!!!

You’re “fibbing”.

I’ve been to BIG time tournaments here in the Northeast as well as So Cal where I’m originally from. 6’4” and above HS freshman are an extraordinary rarity.
Maybe you guys should start a bass fishing site. Those guys fib all the time too.

Poppi,

I don't have to fib. I'm 5'10"; my wife is 5'8"; my oldest is 15, 6'4" and a mid 80s lefty (at least according to his coaches and their guns).

If you'd like, I can PM you my wife's Facebook page. Her profile picture has her, myself, and our son at Steamboat last summer. Remember, I'm 5'10". 27 is taller than I in the picture (including cleats) but not as tall as he is today. Also, I have a picture of 27 on HSBBW's Facebook page as well. I can PM you my facebook page. On it you will find a photo album from Steamboat. You estimate his size from the surrounding 14-yr-olds. (He didn't turn 15 until this past fall/winter.)

HS coaches from last weekend's game gunned 27 at 86. I didn't ask what type of radar gun they used. I've known the coaches for 5 years, so I seriously doubt they would "pad" his numbers, just to try and "please" me. Plus, they were the coaches for the opposing team.

A purely "subjective" poll, on the Utah Baseball Academy's website, has him listed in the top 10 players for the 2012 class. I didn't contribute to the poll, but it's based loosely on super-league, USA, and HS coach's opinions. That's why I used the term "subjective".

I have never claimed that my son is a "phenom". In several posts, over several threads, I have clearly stated that I'm not sure he's PG material. (Those players who are PG material are the true "phenoms" of any given class.)

I have only stated, honestly, his height and the FB mph numbers we've received from outside sources. I have never gunned him. He has never asked to be gunned. He throws hard enough to have some success at baseball. That's all that matters at this point in time.

Oh...one more thing...I hate bass fishing . Trout? Now, that's something else entirely .

quote:

This is what I’m writing about. Perfect examples!

bwood and EC_Dad and 27"sDad,

You guys are SO FULL OF IT!!!

You’re “fibbing”.

I’ve been to BIG time tournaments here in the Northeast as well as So Cal where I’m originally from. 6’4” and above HS freshman are an extraordinary rarity.

Poppi,

I have to assume that you think I am fibbing about my sons size and not his fastball. Well you are wrong. I went and checked the basement wall where he was last measured in his bare feet on 11/22/08. 6" 5 3/4", 188 lbs. That was in the morning and like everyone else, he "shrinks" about a 1/2' during the day.

I believe you when you say that a 6'4" and above HS freshman is extaordinarily rare at a baseball tournament. Have you been to a HS freshman basketball tourney lately? Most teams have a 6"4" plus player or two.

My son goes to a small school (his freshmen class is about 350) so just about everyone plays multiple sports at the freshman level. I am sure at the big schools you don't see too many 15 year old tall kids who are still semi-uncoordinated playing baseball.

I will send you a pm with a link to his basketball team photo if I can figrue out how. In the meantime your public apology would be greatly appreciated.

quote:

Originally posted by Poppi:
This is what I’m writing about. Perfect examples!

bwood and EC_Dad and 27"sDad,

You guys are SO FULL OF IT!!!

You’re “fibbing”.

I’ve been to BIG time tournaments here in the Northeast as well as So Cal where I’m originally from. 6’4” and above HS freshman are an extraordinary rarity.
Maybe you guys should start a bass fishing site. Those guys fib all the time too.


* Brian Shanberg you remember this because it was a bizarre, once in a lifetime kind of thing. And you don’t even remember the little guy’s name.

* And GapFinder. In Japan those guys ARE big.

Napolean complex

quote:

Originally posted by Poppi:
This is what I’m writing about. Perfect examples!

bwood and EC_Dad and 27"sDad,

You guys are SO FULL OF IT!!!

You’re “fibbing”.

I’ve been to BIG time tournaments here in the Northeast as well as So Cal where I’m originally from. 6’4” and above HS freshman are an extraordinary rarity.
Maybe you guys should start a bass fishing site. Those guys fib all the time too.

Poppi it might be a rarity but the Elite World Series at Disney last year ( that I coached in the 14u ) that BBB08 was speaking of. The East Cobb Astro's had a kid on their team that was going in to the 9th grade was 6'6 220lbs agile, athletic and had a 90mph fastball was real.

My son plays teavel ball. One of the 11u Usssa major teams we played this year has a kid who is league age 11 and 6'1. On his 10u team we have played against kids that even at 10 yrs are 5'9.

We havent lived in Florida that long but they either put something in the water here or we have a lot of parents doctoring birth certificates...LOL cause there are some big kids here on the 10 and 11u Usssa teams.

My son is smallest on each of his teams, 10u and 11u and he is 4'9 and just turned 10 a week ago.

They are out there. My son is a big 14 year old and when we went to play with a national organization, the first thind he said after meeting the other players was, "Dad, those guys are big!"

They had 4 guys taller than him.

At 13U he played against a 6'5" guy on the mound. Huge kid. Where there is one, there are more. They are getting bigger every year.

Of course, at Cooperstown as a twelve year old, he played against 6'2"++ guys. But he met one, he was an incoming freshman. Not too sure he was twelve.

bwood,

Thanks for the IM. You ask for a public apology?

You’ve got it; I’m not too proud to admit when I’m wrong! I apologize for doubting you. I beg YOUR pardon. Your boy is awesome. He surely has a big future. Can he shoot from outside of the paint? How tall was he at 10?

My older brother pitched under scholarship for a D1 school in the NW. On a good day, he might have been 5'9". But, this was back in 78-79

quote:

Originally posted by ranger689:
My older brother pitched under scholarship for a D1 school in the NW. On a good day, he might have been 5'9". But, this was back in 78-79

There are also various levels of D1 competition. One D1 size doesn't fit all.

I only comment because of the comments relating to size and pitchers.

Look at the closer from Georgia last year. He is 5'11 175lbs and was hitting 98 and 99mph on his fastball.

Thanks Poppi. No harm - no foul.

He was about 5'7" when he turned 12. I don't have anything from earlier than that.

The jump shot is starting to show up. He just doesn't have a scorers mentality though. Oh, well, there is still time for that.

More importantly, his team won both ends of a DH today and he played well.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

Originally posted by ranger689:
My older brother pitched under scholarship for a D1 school in the NW. On a good day, he might have been 5'9". But, this was back in 78-79

There are also various levels of D1 competition. One D1 size doesn't fit all.

RJM, You're right, there are differences in D1 schools.

I was too young to remember a lot of the details. My brother played for WSU under "Bobo Brayton" and either way, he was happy to have a large chunk of his education paid for.

Though he never had "big league stuff" he made the most of what he had and is doing quite well. Baseball ended up being his vehicle to another career.

V/R
Ranger

Ranger,

That's good enough for the most of us. Most of us never nad a sniff at a Pac 10 scholarship in a glamor sport like baseball. I would be proud of him.

.
Both of mine are very tall...One a LHP...one bats left...

....I am simply THRILLED to hear once again that mine will receiving a fistfull of "free passes"! Thank you! Thank you! Thank You! The universe be praised! May your camels shed all their fleas!

But I need help....

...I don't mean to be rude, but could you please tell me when this might occur? Given the obvious and well documented bias tward tall players...I promised these passes to my sons and I have yet to hear from anyone. Can you believe that no coach, recruiter, or scout has ever "rolled over" for height or handedness yet? Is there a depertment that I can complain to?

Now, I don't mean to whine, but mine continue to lose out to short players who are faster, or throw harder, or are more agile, or have better body types, or whose fathers played pro ball, or who have better genes. Don't they understand? Based upon all these "size DOES matter" threads I am assuring my son's that their passes are in the mail but I have yet to see them, I am beginning to lose my fatherly credability and we are running out of time. Maybe someone could call the coaches, scouts or recruiters and remind them?

Or do we have to apply? If so, where is the application? Leftylargesse.com? Southpawsubsidy.net? Hugehardball.org? Is there a deadline?

Please let us know if you have any information or suggestions.

In the meantime, while awaiting those "free passes" mine will continue to work hard and grind out a little success one day at a time as they have always done with the packages that they have been given. They will foolishly continue to believe that passion, dedication, work ethic, attitude, and effort applied on a daily basis will do more for them than the "Free passes" you will soon be providing for tall and/or lefthanded players.

Yours truly,

44
.

It takes all of it, don't it?

Nice post observer44.

You forgot to add in the luck............

I-44 does not go to Cali...

If your one boy is:

* "very tall" (What does that mean?) When you're 5'4", your 5'6" boy is very tall - to you...
* a LHP.
* Age appropriate (if he's 7-years-old you have to wait)

And no one is talking to you about his future, he must be terrible.
Earlier a disclaimer said the boy must be able to walk and chew gum... (Simultaneously)

quote:

Originally posted by Poppi:
I-44 does not go to Cali...

If your one boy is:

* "very tall" (What does that mean?) When you're 5'4", your 5'6" boy is very tall - to you...
* a LHP.
* Age appropriate (if he's 7-years-old you have to wait)

And no one is talking to you about his future, he must be terrible.
Earlier a disclaimer said the boy must be able to walk and chew gum... (Simultaneously)

Poppi, I wonder why a newcomer to this site would make comments like those. O'44 is one of the most respected posters on this site. Could you explain why you would make a post that seemingly denigrates both O'44 and his sons?

With a little checking, you might not "pop off" like this.
O44 has two sons in college, one playing DI and one at JC. Both are 6'5" or taller, quite talented(I have seen his younger son play in high school) and neither has been given anything.
In fact, one is equally talented on the field and in the classroom having been named the outstanding scholar athlete in his school(DI). With that said, he has earned every inning of playing time.
I wonder why someone who is looking up at all of this has all the answers when those of us who have been through most of it are still asking questions.

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:

quote:

Originally posted by Poppi:
I-44 does not go to Cali...

If your one boy is:

* "very tall" (What does that mean?) When you're 5'4", your 5'6" boy is very tall - to you...
* a LHP.
* Age appropriate (if he's 7-years-old you have to wait)

And no one is talking to you about his future, he must be terrible.
Earlier a disclaimer said the boy must be able to walk and chew gum... (Simultaneously)

Poppi, I wonder why a newcomer to this site would make comments like those. O'44 is one of the most respected posters on this site. Could you explain why you would make a post that seemingly denigrates both O'44 and his sons?

With a little checking, you might not "pop off" like this.
O44 has two sons in college, one playing DI and one at JC. Both are 6'5" or taller, quite talented(I have seen his younger son play in high school) and neither has been given anything.
In fact, one is equally talented on the field and in the classroom having been named the outstanding scholar athlete in his school(DI). With that said, he has earned every inning of playing time.
I wonder why someone who is looking up at all of this has all the answers when those of us who have been through most of it are still asking questions.

I agree with infielddad Is there something in the water these days? Poppi - If you cannot post in a respectful manner, please do us all a favor and never post here again

O44,
Be careful sending anything in to "hugehardball.org",free or not, my understanding is it may not be family friendly content

I know more about this than you may think.
Sorry if I ruffled any feathers; that was not my intention. Sorry if I offended anyone, I've been on the East Coast for too long!
I did learn some stuff.
I’ll remove HSBaseballweb from my ‘favorites’ and I shall not return
I’ll go now. Adios, Poppi

To reiterate my previous post- Size doesn't matter in college (not talking pitchers). Attended another D1 college game in N.Ca last night. Both teams had many players barely 6'. One team is ranked top 25.

If you can play I don't think these coaches had their tape measures out when signing players.

Worry about the things you can control and forget about the other things out of your control (like height).

Many of the things you think are important and worry about will soon fade away. You will laugh at yourself one day. A lot of times the things you think are important end up being the least important. You may think size is critical. You may think your sons best attribute is his ability to hit for power or his speed etc. In the end the only persons opinion that matters is the one that is offering your son a chance to play. If your son is a 6'3 195 Adonis in his uniform but does not have the tools to help the coach win he will be a nice looking ball player with no where to play. If your son is a 5'3 rug rat but can play his a_s off he will still look like a 5'3 rug rat but he will be playing his a_s off while Adonis is at the concession stand getting a drink.

Good call Coach May. I just call them ballplayers. They come in all types. Tall, short, big, small, chubby, skinny, fast, slow, aggressive, passive. When you step between the lines, are you a ballplayer? Can you produce?

I agree with CaBB, I have been to an ACC game and a Big East game this spring. There were many kids on all four teams under 6' tall. Pitchers and position players.

I guess size can't hurt, but if you can play you will get the opportunities at the college level. No matter how tall you or your parents are.

Does size really matter or does talent?

Check out this D1 roster, 18 on the teams roster is 6' or under.

http://clemsontigers.cstv.com/...em-m-basebl-mtt.html

Size doesn't matter if all you want to do is play D1 college ball. But my kid is going to be a Number one pick out of HS and he needs to be tall!!

quote:

In the end the only persons opinion that matters is the one that is offering your son a chance to play

That is the most intelligent and true statement I have ever heard on this web site.

I don't know what part of New England Poppi is from but I live in New England myself and son play's Babe Ruth with a 15yr old freshman who is 6'4 1/2". He was 6' 2" as a 12 yr old. Scored 39 of his teams 41 points against my son's basketball team..lol.

Teamate on this years middle school team is 6' 2" tall and is 13. There is another 6' 2" player on another middle school in town. So even up here in New england they seem to be growing them tall!

Oh ya..only the 6" 4 1/2" LHP player is what I'd consider a very good ball player but he lacks hustle and discipline....what a waste of talent. He is good but could be soooo much better, drives his parents, coaches and some teammates crazy!!

Size can be permanant not to mention that is the player coordinated and athletic---I was 5-9 when I was 12 years of age (back in 1954) I had 12 HRS in 18 games in LL and hit .547 BUT I never got any taller---- weird but true so folks don't count your beans too early