So confused...need advice!

Thanks for posting and sharing.  Your goals are clear for him.  What about his goals for him?  There is a rule of thumb that if you are in the top 25% (academically GPA/SATs) as an incoming student you will get some merit aid.  The more academically desirable your son is to a school (to boost their published rankings) the more merit scholarships money is available in theory...it s a supply demand thing.. Elite academic schools are not included in this rule because demand is high and supply is low, so no merit money there. 

Your son is fortunate to have some choices at this point in time.  The challenge will be figuring out between the two of you what is most important between financial, academic and athletic considerations.  All are important and come into play, but one will be the most important.  I think that is something you have to decide for yourselves.  It is different for every kid.  I'm going through this for the third time, and our decision criteria for my youngest is vastly different than the criteria for my oldest.  If your son is a strong academic, I suggest you look in that direction first and play to his strengths then look at other options as necessary.  In our house, The Bank of Mom & Dad will help provide a college education for our kids.  However the Bank of Mom & Dad is not in the business of providing funds to play baseball (first) and get an education (second). 

Good luck!

"In our house, The Bank of Mom & Dad will help provide a college education for our kids.  However the Bank of Mom & Dad is not in the business of providing funds to play baseball (first) and get an education (second). "

That I am going to shamelessly plagiarize repeatedly. Well stated.

When you purchased your house did you invest in the highest quality property you could afford?  

Or did you buy the absolute least expensive shack hoping to invest the money you saved in order to buy your dream house in Hawaii? 

College is an investment in your son.  

Rich

www.PlayInSchool.com/bus_tour

www.twitter.com/PlayInSchool

JUCO is certainly a good route for players who need to develop both physically and academically. If costs are important to a family then this route is certainly the best cost option. Let's be real about the draft and playing pro baseball, the chances of your son getting drafted are 50/50. Now lets assume he is a drafted in the high rounds, the chances of a marginal pick, particularly a position player without clear "tools", making it though the minors is pretty slim. He could probably play for a few years and (maybe) enjoy the pro experience and move on with life.

My advice would be 1) Get a good education and have a plan on what you want to do with it. 2) Get it with the least amount of debt. 3) Really enjoy the college experience, particularly playing baseball since so few have the opportunity. 4) Worry about the next level once you establish yourself at the college level. 

Coyote....it sounds like your son is very similar to mine.  Posted about our recruitment process yesterday.

While your son sounds like a very good player, he doesn't have the size / speed / velocity that stand out at a showcase or a camp.  He is a player that is appreciated over time.  My son is very similar.....excellent outfielder but doesn't have the sub 7 speed.  Very good line drive hitter....without big power numbers.   84-86 mph on fastball.  Our big selling point was my son's curveball.....which every coach that has seen it tells us it is college ready now.

So...I think your son is that high D2 / low D1.  My son very much wanted to play D1 also.  But, as I stated yesterday, unless you are playing in one of the top 8-10 conferences,  you can find the same baseball experience at the very high D2/D3 level.

Sounds like you have some very good options.  I liked the JUCO route...my son wanted to be on a bigger campus for 4 years and didn't want to go through a 2nd recruiting process.  And, if you can get a great education at a good D3 for 24K over 4 years, that is a great opportunity!

Good luck in your choice.  I think you will both feel better about things when you make a decision.

JB 

BOF - I get where you were going with the draft, but lets be clear... Chances of getting drafted are far from being 50/50.  

Rich

www.PlayInSchool.com

www.twitter.com/PlayInSchool

Had to chuckle at this one.....We bought the best property available.....and just like some degrees, when the market tanked, the property value dropped....and just like some degrees, the "value" is only what it is worth to the owner because the market could care less

Well put.  

So perhaps kids should skip college and play in a competitive mens league that will cost $100 plus beer money.

Rich

www.PlayInSchool.com

www.twitter.com/PlayInSchool

• My son also had some of the same kind of decisions as your son. We as a family decided it would be best to stay local. This alone saved him between 30 to 40 thousand dollars. We provide a car, gas and food. For us the difference between the local junior college and the D3 he chose was going to be about $1,000. Academically the D 3 school is known for it's science programs...lots PHD professors in his major. My son had a 4.0 coming out of high school so he was given a lot of academic money. He qualified for other monetary awards. He took care of business his freshman year and got himself a 1000.00 engineering scholarship. It was a no brainer financially, academically and they showed him the most love of all schools recruiting him.
• It sounds like your son has some interesting choices...a top 10 D3 school in baseball is very intriguing to me. Are any of the schools local ?My son also wanted to go away...we strongly discouraged that kind of debt.  We reached out to a local D2 school where my son would have been able to get academic and athletic money...they had just signed a first baseman( who my son had better numbers than) so it wasn't meant to be. Financially it sounds like the Junior college might be a good fit. Are any of them local ?
• I would like to add that my husband and I work full time but our son qualified for some financial assistance. That helped close the gap between the Junior college and the D3.

Our son is in his 2nd year at a JUCO.  As a freshman he managed to become the starting DH and primary backup to 1B.  He is on track to be a starter this year at 3B or 1B.   I don't know where "they" get 400-500 AB's but my son played in 50 of 53  games and had somewhere around 120 AB's.  Be forewarned JUCO's over recruit - when my son showed up for fall practicelast year, there were over 50 players.  Somehow he managed to get 13 AB's with 7 hits over 17 games in the fall.  By spring the roster was whittled down to 35 due to grades and other issues.  Coach never actually made cuts.  He did put about 8 on red shirt.

One thing that happened that sort of surprised me, was as the season wore on and some players became disappointed with their playing time (or lack of), they began to quit - especially in the last 2-3 weeks of the season.  By then the coach pretty much had his core starters/relievers.  By the last home series the roster was down to about 25-28 players when it had been 35-36 at the beginning.

When checking out the JUCO's make sure they participate in the federal programs if you're counting on federal assistance.  The JUCO my son is at does not, but we were fortunate he qualified for state assistance in the form of grants.  Our only cost to date is basically his living expenses  he's 4.5 hours away. 

That said the baseball is competitive - occasionally facing a 4 year D3- maybe a D1 in fall ball, but mostly other JUCO's.

My son has always had dreams of playing in the big leagues, but he's finally realized it's one step at a time.  At this point he's hoping/working to eventually play for a 4 year D1/2/3, but he knows education is important too.  You can't always play baseball, but a degree will take you far.

Good luck!

I'll try to answer all of the questions here, and add some details.  None of the D2/3 are local, and are out of state.  He has scheduled a visit to the top 10 D3 baseball program, so we will see where that goes.  With a 3.5 and I think a 24 on his ACT, he is not is line for very much academic money and is actually closer to the 25% than the 75% at most of the D3's.  All of the JUCO's are local, could live at home at least the first year, not that he'd probably want to. 

His goals are pretty simple at this point, just wants to play baseball, I wish he were more mature about it, but that's where it is.  I do think he thinks JC is a letdown.  He is not sure what he wants to do in life yet, it bounces from medicine, to PT, to Law, so who knows.  He's a good student, but not a great one.  The one D2 that is interested is him is one he went to their camp and he really loved the campus/facilities/etc.  But he has the JC coaches telling him that it is selling himself short.  It is very average academically, and they were in and out of the top 25 most of last season.  I personally don't think he will get drafted, nor do I care about it, but I will admit that in the back of my mind is his uncle (favors his mom's side of family) who put on 3 inches and about 5 mph (was a pitcher) after he turned 20. I really do think he has a lot of upside, which is why I think from a baseball (and financial) standpoint the JC route would be best.  BUT...I'm not sure it will provide the best college experience for him.  The JC's also tell him that if he wants to get into a strong academic school, they will still be there after two years as long as he get's the grades there, and if he got a 4.0 he could actually improve his options.  Two years of $10K sounds a lot better than 4 years of $10K...  I feel like pushing him in the JC route, but want him to make the decision, even though I know he might be choosing with his heart and not his head or wallet.

When you talk about investing in education, here is where I have a problem. I have a Masters degree, and I just don't think it matters very much in the real world where you get your undergrad unless it is very specific (petroleum engineering) or from a small handful of school (Harvard, Stanford).  The rest is what you do after with it.

Great thread with a lot of excellent replies with very good advice.  I think the dilemma posed by the original poster is very common.  I don't have much to offer other than my sympathy to the original poster.  I think there are a lot of us out there with sons that based on their accomplishments and information provided by seemingly credible sources, we thought would be further along the recruiting process.  All I can say is hang in there, keeping reading the site for advice and continue to be aggressive in the pursuit. 

Good advice, thanks.  The JC's are all in AZ, and it is a very good conf.  He worked out with one of the teams this week and there were 67 kids out there.  It's not unusual for Central to have 80+ in the fall.  They all usually have a couple of tryouts in the summer, plus a lot of them get the D1 drop backs in the fall as well, plus the recruited walk on's.  This gets whittled down like you said, between academic failure, kids quitting, and cuts to the 30-ish in the spring. It is important (at least I think so) to be one of the "monied" kids, as I see (from previous friends experience) they get the most Fall PT, and most opportunity in the spring.  The AZ JC's play 20-25 dates in the fall (some of those being DH and around 55 games in the spring.  If you are a starter it is totally reasonable to get 500+ PA's over your two years.

Financially it's a no-brainer, but I guess it's not all about the money...

First, it doesn't matter your son's friends are going PAC12 or Big West. This isn't a contest for bragging rights. It's a personal decision that directly affects your son's life and happiness. He has to make the best decision for him disregarding what any of his friends choose.

High School stats are only as good as brochures. Ultimately the product (your son) is evaluated on tools ... speed, arm, fielding, hitting, power. His lack of speed may cause some judgement regarding his fielding. Quickness may not show in a showcase if the right plays don't present themselves.

I once asked the dad of a NCSU player if his son was recruited by UNC. UNC was far better at the time. He said "both showed interest. But while UNC showed interest NCSU showed love. You're more likely to get on the field where they show love." The D1s aren't showing your son love. It appears D2s and D3s are. Your son can't be noticed sitting on the bench. Top D2 and D3 players play in some of the same summer leagues as D1s. 

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be drafted and have a shot at MLB. But unless a kid has jaw dropping tools and talent a kid should be thinking education first. 94% of American MLB'ers come from the first twenty rounds of the draft. 84% come from first ten rounds. While not all would agree with this view, coming out of high school my son said he doesn't want to wake up in AAA ball at age 29 making 36K a year when he could be making six or seven figures on Wall Street by then.

Your son is very fortunate. He has some quality options. He needs to choose the one that will provide a quality education and a quality college baseball experience. If he's good enough and develops chances are the pro opportunity will still come regardless of where he plays college ball.

Coyote, My son has a friend who decided to go the Juco route. I consider it local although it is about 20 miles from the young man's home. He stays in a apartment with 4 other baseball players. I think the players pay somewhere between 200 and 300 a month for their share of the rent. Many guys on my son's team do this too. It is 300.00 at his school. Perhaps this could be a compromise that could make both of you happy....and you could get to see him play a lot of games. I'm betting that some of the Juco's your son is looking at might have some kind of arrangement for their players . Since your son is not sure on a major...and many kids aren't...Juco makes a lot of sense to get his basic classes done.

Our son shares a 2 bedroom apt with one other student.  He was one of the baseball players, but quit late in the season last year.  They are still rooming together this year even though his roommate is not playing ball.  The college has a new baseball coach this year, but the previous coach did a good job trying to pair up players.  Fortunately the apt is relatively close to the campus - only 2-3 miles and about 4 miles from the ball field (a city owned minor league field).

Our son has been taking classes under General Studies, but he's thinking of majoring in Criminal Justice when he transfers (wherever that may be).

Thanks, and again good advice.

It's funny but this couldn't be more true.  He went to back to back prospect camps this summer, one a mid-level D1 and the other is one of the D2 options.  Both did the 5 ground balls, 60, etc. to start with and he made all the plays, no difference.  They both played 3 scrimmages.  Was 3-6 in both camps (actually a more impressive 3-6 at the D1).  In the D1 camp, I think he had one routine ground ball and a pop up defensively.  In the D2 camp, he had 8-9 grounders including 5-6 playmaker types that truly showcased some skill, and he made all of the plays.  Dumb luck, but we all know which one called him after, and I don't think it's due to level as they go after a lot of the same kids.

coyotecoach8,

In reading your post, it seems as though you have identified the considerations important for you, but you seem a little less clear on those of your son.

One aspect which I think needs to be reconsidered and analyzed is the comparative cost on D2/D3 vs JC to DI, if that is what eventually happens.  Should the JC path be the one taken, while the first 2 years of cost might seem fine, what about the likelihood for the next 3 following that.  If your son did earn a DI look and scholarship, it is probably going to be 25% for planning purposes.  He might also encounter some loss of units/credits and with a transfer, he might be looking at one additional academic year, with only 2 of 3 potentially covered by the 25%.  It is more than realistic to think that if he hits a top level D1, his scholarship will be for one year, since coaches plan on the draft taking everyone following their junior year.

My view is to look at this in terms of the best opportunity, which combines education and baseball, assuming your son wants to take on the challenge of both being willing to commit to  working his hardest at both.

 I would also be very conservative and evaluate each option coupled with cost measured over 4 years likely at a D3 and perhaps 5 years of cost taking the JUCO to D1 route.  I would also look very carefully at JUCO to D1 and the experience of the programs involved. Our son was presented with a similar view from a CA. JC. While they do have a very good reputation for moving players to 4 year programs, my closer look showed about 25% were to D1 level and the balance were to D2 and NAIA, with most at the NAIA level.

Finally, to directly answer your question, there are posters on this site, including our son, who were able to take the route of a top academic D3, combine it with a top baseball D3, have success along the way and in Summer Wood bat leagues and get drafted.  I can certainly confirm however, that the vast majority who pursue the route of the top academic D3 which couples with a terrific baseball program do not get drafted. Most, however, get their degree in 4 to 4.5 years, if they work hard in the classroom and on the field.

Good luck to you and your son. Welcome to the HSBBW and keep asking questions and seeking guidance as you feel comfortable. 

Also, try and be objective.  While I don't want to seem harsh, I would look very hard at the concept of the "slump" being due to the pressure issue of others giving verbal commitments to Big West and Pac12's.  College baseball competition is far tougher competition than anything your son experienced to date, if he wants the top, even the top of D3.  If your son truly struggled due to pressure, it might be a bit naive to think he will succeed when the competition and pressure is even tougher and he encounters it every single day he walks onto the field.

This has been a great post to follow.  I hope your son does not sell himself short as some of the JUCO coaches feel.  There is some great JUCO ball, and if that is where he gets the "love" from coaches, and he really wants to continue playing, so be it.  OF course finances always play a part, and quality of education depending on field of study, plays a part as well.  My son is receiving a lot of DII/DIII contact, as well as JC interest. But the most "love" is coming from an out of state low level DI, and they happen to offer his intended Major.  But, the final decision will be his.  It's more expensive compared to getting a full ride in state from a JC, but it's not out of the question.

I hope your son finds the right situation, but he should not consider going to play at a JC any kind of slight or any less of an achievement.

Infielddad, That was a very good post. Lot's of useful information in there. Finding the right fit is unique for every player and you were able to paint a clear picture about some of the differences. My son is at a D3 school and although it isn't a top 25 (yet) they are pushing to get in the top 50....the competition is pretty good at that level. I also like how open the professor's are to meeting with the students. I very much like that my son can talk to and get to know his professor's.

Thanks for the input, it's much appreciated.  I'm really really trying to be objective.  The reason I call it a slump is that as a rising Jr he played in the same tourney's and had a better offensive summer.  He's played in everything from the Elite 24 in FL, to the PG under and upper class championships, 4 Corners, etc. ie a lot of big tourneys with big time competition and done well.  And I'm well aware of who is a D1 stud, and that's not him right now.  I also admit it does give me pause that he (admittedly) felt a lot of pressure this past summer.

I've looked at where kids have moved on from this particular JC, and it's everything from ASU to NAIA.  A couple usually get drafted.  That is one of the points that the JC coaches talk to him about, they think they can get him better, but worst case you end up in the same place as you do now, but you have two years of undergrad done at a very low expense with a lot more PT.

Also, you are correct on the potential costs of years 3-5 at a D1.  Starting to look at that.  It would work out perfectly if he could go in state, but unfortunately the only two in state D1's (Grand Canyon going D1 this year) are top 25 programs.

We are so far having good luck with the JUCO to D2 route. My son's a late bloomer type like yours, and was young for his grade. In his two years as a 2-way player (2B/P) in JUCO, he went from 167 to 188 pounds, got the FB up to 88-89, and finally achieved that sub-7 60. He got tons of ABs because they played lots of games, fall and spring. In addition to getting bigger, stronger, and faster, he was NJCAA Academic All America his sophomore year, and was also named to his school's student life "Hall of Fame," which is the highest honor that school bestows on its students. Long story short, he has a great scholarship (academic + athletic) at an exellent academic D2, and will continue to be a 2-way player in a great conference - the same conference as the D2 National Champs - only a couple of hours away.

Money-wise, he was a preferred walk-on at the JUCO with a state academic scholarship that covered half his tuition. We lived only a few miles away, but he got a Stafford loan so he could live with his teammates near campus. But once he processed the fact that he would be the one paying back the loan, he moved back home for the second year. At the D2, he's got a very nice financial aid package that includes academic and athletic money and he'll be in comparatively great shape when he graduates.

Everyone's path is different. But I'd encourage your son not to poo poo the JUCO. College will be what he makes of it.

To be honest, good college coaches at D1, D2, D3, Juco and NAIA get their players better. While I like the wording coming from the JC coaches about getting him bigger, better and faster, with more playing time, I expect they are saying more playing time than at a D1.   When they get to college, players feel pressure to be better every single day.  They are expected to be better as a sophomore than as a freshman, etc.  If they don't expect that of themselves, put in the hard work to get there, and have that coupled with the coaching ability to get better every day, they sit. If your son has upside, good coaching at all the next levels, coupled with playing can get him bigger, better and faster, if he does all the work(and more) on his side.

 As RJM posted, most players don't get better sitting on the bench.

Because you are in AZ., it would be important for me, as a parent, to measure the chances of playing for U of A or ASU in 2 years. If that is not likely, any transfer has a much greater chance of being out of State. That enhances the problem of lost credits, an additional year, and out of State tuition, possibly.

Your son is creating some terrific opportunities.  I wish him the best, especially at the Fall classic. Additionally, rather than seeing the process being ongoing as a "pressure" to lighten to enjoy the senior year, perhaps this is a good situation which can help to keep him focused on some goals and working very hard in the classroom and on the diamond. 

Finally, when we have son's who aspire for D1 and probably have that upside, experiencing what you have posted is shared with a broad spectrum who have posted on the site and who lurk on the site.  Based on what you have posted, it seems likely your son has and will continue to create opportunities at the next level with some combination of JUCO, D1, D2, D3 and NAIA.  He is probably not going to have to make any type of final decision until April/May and even then it might not be completely final.  I very much respect your posting and starting this thread on being confused, because it can be darn confusing for most players and their parents.  The strong likelihood is there will be an answer, but probably not within the time frame you might hope.  When he gets to that point,  it all becomes what your son makes of the opportunity which he created as a student and baseball player.

In a good JUCO league many starters will get the opportunity to play at a 4 year school, whether D1, D2 etc   My son's JUCO team finished below 500 but every starter played at the "next level." 

JUCO is also a great opportunity for a player to learn about his skill level, competition, academic interests and the dirt on 4 year programs.  Just like a 4 year school you can run into bad counslers, bad coaches, bad teamates, bad roomates, bad professors and bad advice. 

In your son's particular situation it sounds like he's not very interested in a JUCO, which can lead to a bad result if going the JUCO is your idea and not his.  Students should not "settle" for a JUCO, they should "choose" it. 

btw, JUCO is not just a freshman option, many kids go to a 4 year school, things don't work out and they come back to a JC as a 4-2-4.  Some kids find out they aren't ready for D1 baseball and/or they aren't feeling the love they need from the coach.    My son's D1 coach liked JC kids because many had a chip on their shoulder and didn't need to be motivated..

 JUCO is a good option when:

1.  The student see's his path to the next level through the JUCO.

2.  The student has decided baseball is an important aspect of their college experience and won't get to play out of HS at a 4 year school

3. They really want to play professionally but aren't getting any D1 or pro love.

4. The student recognizes they maybe redshirted at the JUCO. 

5. Studying and taking the right classes are his responsibily

In the end, your kid can still go to a JUCO and never play again, there are no sure things.