So your kid just turned down 1st round money

reese wanted 2 million and really wanted to attend south carolina anyways. simmilar thing happen a few years ago with Drew Myers

Sorry Dad04, just can't explain why one would turn that down to be a gamecock!
JMO.

Give me 1.3 mill and I can probably turn that into 2 mill before I need to spend any of it.

I'll never understand how guys that say MLB is a real goal in their lives turn down this kind of opportunity, let alone this kind of money. I know plenty of talented kids that would sign for $1,300. and the opportunity to play.

How true is this story? Can we get the Red Sox GM on the phone?

That kid either got very bad advice or has a very bad attitude. Some people like being wooed more than actually playing.

quote:

I know plenty of talented kids that would sign for $1,300. and the opportunity to play.

There are more than a few Sr. Ragin Cajuns praying for free agent contracts right now.

quote:

How true is this story?

Granted, until a player is actually picked it's tough to turn the money down. All we know is what the kid and Saberhagen said though. They sounded sincere.

That is a very interesting scenario and I think the question begs to be asked: Why didn't the team know before the draft that this player was unsignable for less than $2 million? It seems quite possible that what VaDad said is true here: "Some people like being wooed more than actually playing."

I have to agree with itsagreatgame. My son would probably be on a bus right now for $1300. $1.3 million????? Have to question the kid's desire. Also, I know calls happen at the last minute from organizations, but seems like everyone would have known if this kid was that far out from negotiating.

For some people it is not about the money--it is about playing where he wants to play in college and hope to be drafted three years later

Perhaps this says it all: the town my son grew up in has an internet paper run by one of his HS classmates from 1994-- the grads of the past are asked to send in hellos etc and my son proudly noted that he had played his college baseball at New Mexico State--you could sense the pride in the post--- for some, college is very important for others not as much

I'm with TRHit...Everyone looks at this differently. Some people would do almost anything for $1,300,000. Some people would sacrifice everything to have the opportunity to play professional baseball, while others feel nothing can take the place of a formal education. I say to each his own. My opinion is based on the fact that I have never been offered $1,300,000 for anything, I have never had the talent or the opportunity to play professional baseball, and I have never been to college and I am perfectly content with my life. Surely you agree with me because it's common knowledge that: Ignorance is bliss, money ain’t everything, and baseball is just a game.
Fungo

I get that a kid REALLY wants to be a Gamecock and get his education. My kid's a Cajun and love's it.

I get money aint everything. It ain't by a long shot. It's just real tough getting by without enough of it. I know.

Ignorance is bliss. Baseball is just a game, a very cool game.

To each his own.


FBM mom

Maybe I wasn't clear. He turned down a pre-draft deal for 1st round $$. The Rockies actually still drafted him in the 28th round.

I have been thinking about this scenerio and my son and have come to the following conclusion.

Right now my going on 20 son has everything he needs ,transportation, an ipod, a laptop, X-Box, TV, two pairs of khaki shorts he lives in, 2 pairs of new sneakers and some polo shirts, a DVD player, great friends, great coaches, a great scholarship and another shot at the draft. He is content. He is not thinking about retirement at his age, so money at this stage in his life is not important (though he worked all through HS and knows how hard it is to make it).
As I told Dad04, his experiences that he has had this year are priceless to him, he feels that college (not just getting your degree but the whole picture)is an experience that money can't buy.
With that in mind, all kidding aside about USC, I could see why the 1.3M was turned down.

This has got to be one of the most controversial topics on the site. While I respect everyone's decision and don't think anyone can tell another player or family what they should do, I just can't imagine a player turning down a first round draft pick. The 1.3 million isn't really the point, but does demonstrate that a club has confidence in and a desire to have said player. My son would consider it such a privilege to play pro ball that he would consider any offer and be gone if it was up to him. That's not where I stand. IMO money and round are just important indicators of your chances - just like college. It's not about the money - it's about an opportunity to live your dream. We all have different dreams and make different choices to achieve those.

quote:

My son would consider it such a privilege to play pro ball that he would consider any offer and be gone if it was up to him. That's not where I stand.

Lafmom, I'm with you. I think that's why parents exist.

Dad04 ...

quote:

He turned down a pre-draft deal for 1st round $$. The Rockies actually still drafted him in the 28th round.

Sorry, I misread the "called the night before" and made the offer. Duh !! That makes more sense to me now.

And I do understand his decision a little better now, tho as much as my son wanted to play in college, had ANYBODY called him at the end of high school with an offer, I think he would now be in his 5th pro season

quote:

had ANYBODY called him at the end of high school with an offer I think he would now be in his 5th pro season

I think have one of those too. Plenty of kids have their cake and eat it too. College is still a possibility with pro ball.

dont believe everything you hear, i was at the game, and personally i dont think thats true, watching him play and work, he doesnt seem worth 1.3 million. Besides, its amazing how many people drafted in rounds 10-35 still think their worth at lesat a million. I must have had 10 guys drafted in round 10 or lower say they wanted 1.1 million or so STILL! and they all say " well they offered me 675,000 in the 5th and i turned it down" i personally dont believe any of that, mainly because the teams werent even calling people before they were picked this year. Dont believe anything you hear, out of all the guys who claim they got offered such and such, maybe 1 is right. And Reese Havens saying he got offered that is just stupid. Cus if you get offered that, your signing, bottom line. I guarantee if he really got offered that he wouldnt be a Gamecock. Thats just my view of things. Maybe someone else sees somethin i dont, but he didnt seem like that great of a player to me. And for a guy whos not Justin Upton, i find it hard to believe he would turn down 1.3 million to go to college.

And to conclude, i just want to say that i am not in any way saying Reese is NOT a good player, he is a very great athlete and i would take him on my team any day. And im not saying he didnt get offered that much. But as far as the All-American game, there were about 15-20 other players probably claiming the same thing. Reese is a Great ball player and i dont want to take away from that, im just putting forth my opinion on people SUPPOSEDLY turning down that amount of money. When MOST of them didnt. I know for sure at least 4 of the guys claiming to have gotten offered 800k or more, and turned it down to go to college are not telling the truth about such events. But yes, not taking anything away from reese, just saying, dont believe everything you here. Ego's have a way of changing money figures

Shane...In general, how are your negotiations going? Has anything significant happened yet? If not, do you have a "lean" yet or would it not be wise to indicate that at this time? After all is "said and done", a more detailed narrative of your experience would be very enlightening. Congrats and Good Luck!

OOPS...I probably should have posted this on your "drafted" thread...feel free to answer here or there.

I am very close to signing, we are working out some minor contract clauses and such right now. But i think the latest i will be signed is the 26-27th of this month. The major part of the contract, Money,College money,Incentive Bonus plan, all that is out of the way, now we're doing some stuff over Contract rights and such. It shouldnt be much longer, i'll keep ya'll posted on it.

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
I'm with TRHit...Everyone looks at this differently. Some people would do almost anything for $1,300,000. Some people would sacrifice everything to have the opportunity to play professional baseball, while others feel nothing can take the place of a formal education. I say to each his own.

THIS, I completely agree with and it sums it all up IMO.

I know of a pro ballplayer who played in the CWS 3 times who has told his friends that he would give $1M to play there just one more time.

I also know that there are several things in my life that I could not have been bought out of for any price. Other things would take no more than a $1 for me to do.

Everyone has their reasons. I don't second guess ANY for the decision they make. Its their life and they know best what makes them happy. And it doesn't automatically represent a lack of desire or an overabundance of desire.

"To each is own." Fungo...I'll second that!

Good luck Shane. Strong organization for HS pitchers like you.

AHSPitcher,

Best of luck!

Its not like he's turning down pro baseball, i'm sure he'll be more than happy to play after college.

<<< I just don't get turning down the opportunity and everything associated.

Can someone please explain it for me? >>>

************************************************

I believe my son would probably want to take that deal, but as a parent I would be advise him against it.

Until he gets his college degree everything else should be secondary. A college degree is viewed as an entry level door opener. The odds of a player making the big show are still very high even after getting drafted. Can't even begin to name the players that get drafted and end up getting cut and are out of baseball now without their degree.

My advise, stay in school finish up your degree.

Most players who turn down and go to college ususally end up drafted again.
Again, not for us to judge.
However, after a year at school, I know my son would turn it down and start back in college all over again.

RAMROD, you can only play baseball for so long. You can go to school no matter how old you are! and, since when did employers start handing out 1.3 million bonuses to people with a 4 year college degree or a 5 yr one or a 10 yr one either for that matter???????? 1.3 million and a college scholarship for 4 years ALL paid for. So he turns down the money and he is on a 70 % scholarship to South Carolina and his parents have to come up with the other 30 % and spending money too!

Ever hear of Mark Texiera? He did the same thing when the Red Sox came a calling his senior year in high school. They called the night before the draft, said they would give him 1.1 mil. to sign. He thanked them but declined. They drafted him anyway in like the 8th round. He went on to Georgia Tech, had a great college career, was drafted 4th overall after his junior year (got a 10 million dollar signing bonus - thanks BORAS), and appears on his way to a terrific career.

Maybe the players know something about the RedSox that the rest of us don't?

Afer taxes and money blown, what is left is not worth it in the eyes of our family to give up college, which lasts a lifetime in so many ways. If your good enough, pro ball will be there later. Smart kid who made this decision with his head on straight.

College or Pro ... Whatever a player decides can never be the wrong answer! That's because the decision is made from a personal point of view and is the right decision for THEM at that point in time, even if others may choose differently. Gee, with hind-sight wouldn't many of us have changed a decision or two if we'd only known what was coming next? The key to the question is that this is a choice not many players get to make and until you're in that situation, everything is just speculation.

Make the right choice for you. Ignore the opinions of others who are not in your shoes. Not everyone has the same circumstances. Especially ignore those that state things as absolutes. They have limited sight based on their own bias.

The older I get... the more I realize... There are NO absolutes... involving tough decisions!

Thanks for the reminder BigHit

Every family and different dynamics. Some players may feel that they would sign for 100,000.00, some for 500,000.00 while others may need 4,000,000.00 before they will sign. Which one is correct and which one is wrong? It's different for each player/family.

There are an amazing number of ex-players out there -- some of whom played in the big leagues and earned what seemed at the time like great money -- who are drifting aimlessly through life, nearly lost, wishing they had some sort of degree and some sort of direction. More than many might think. To me, the awareness of these "lost souls" is not nearly what it ought to be and which is why whenever I am asked I always point a player toward school. And, as I said above, if you are good enough, it will all work out anyway. If you are not, then you probably have a tough road ahead and you probably won't take advantage of the school opportunity baseball promised to provide.

quote:

There are an amazing number of ex-players out there -- some of whom played in the big leagues and earned what seemed at the time like great money -- who are drifting aimlessly through life, nearly lost,

jemaz,

With all due respect, your statement above is true, but aren't there more than a few ex-college students drifting aimlessly through life?

I agree that going to college is the best route for most young people, but I do believe many have done just fine going the other direction.

There are a lot of considerations beyond the obvious advantage of a college degree. Would Carl Crawford be better off had he went the scholarship route to Nebraska? Would Bobby Jenks have graduated if he went to a four year school? Every individual situation just can't have the same answer.

Every year we are asked for advice regarding many issues including this one. My answer is always the same, as some on this site might remember... I do not give advice in this matter. Why?... Because what ever I tell someone... it possibly could turn out to be the wrong advice. I'm far from smart or clairvoyant enough to give everyone the absolute correct advice.

By the way, it is possible to be plenty good enough as a baseball player and not be good enough as a student.

PGStaff:

What I am saying is that even if a player makes it to the big leagues, there is life after baseball (most of it actually) and a lot of guys -- including many with a decade or more in the majors -- look back and desperately wish they had a degree. If you can succeed at both, why not?

quote:

If you can succeed at both, why not?

Jemaz,

Nobody can argue with that!

Now days, anyone with 10 or more years in the Big Leagues should be very thankful, but I guess people will always wish they had something they don't have.

I'm not going to argue it either. My point is this.

Min. salary in the big leagues over 300,000 a year.

Most make over a million a year.

The best health insurance and vision that money can buy for the player and his family for the rest of their lives.

over 100 dollars a day meal money

a retirement package 2nd to none in ANY business. A player that plays 10 years in ML gets over 100,000 dollars a season for the rest of their lives.

I could go on. I'll stop here because what job with a NORMAL college degree can give you this. Also, since when was getting a college degree a Guarantee. There are many who start every year and far less who finish every year.

All I'm saying is you may only get one GOOD opprotunity to cash in on what ML baseball has to offer. Why not take it while your young and still physically maturing if a club wants to give you good money to go see if you can cash in.

College will always be there. Playing baseball will not.

But, I must agree that if you don't have a passion for it, then go to college.

Vance,

What you are saying is nearly all correct.

Only problem is, you're basing everything on dollar amounts. Of course money is very important, but it does not mean the same to every single person.

My belief is as follows...

The player who truly wants nothing more than to play baseball (no right or wrong), should sign when the opportunity presents itself.

An arguement could be made that the player who would sign for nothing is the one that is doing it for the right reason.

If the ONLY reason for signing is the amount of money... I don't believe it's for the right reason. In fact, it might be a recipe for failure.

There are many sides to this debate. I don't think there are any standard answers that fit everyone.

Pg and Vance,

This topic has come up before and I suspect it will keep coming up. I must say my views have changed on this subject since I have read many opinions here, thought about it, and have come to the conclusion there simply is no right or wrong answer on the issue.

If you ask me what I would advise my son, I basically subcribe to Vance's view. IMHO, you may not be able to correct a bad baseball decision. For instance, turning down the million, you could wind up with a career threatning injury. You also could become exposed as a lesser prospect and never receive such an offer again. Of course, you could increase your value like Texiera but the risk is too great in my view. Regarding college, it can be just as successful a few years down the road as it has worked out for me in this manner.

I agree that there is no way to win this argument convincingly nor is there a one-size-fits-all solution to the problem.

Please allow an example….

We knew a very high profile high school prospect who told MLB Clubs up front he was most interested in attending school. He was an almost certain 1st rounder (1.5 to 2.5 million)

Because of his signability situation he was selected later on in that years draft and of course went to college. He now is playing professional baseball, but signed out of college for a fraction of what he could have received out of high school.

During this process (high school) his father talked to me often. His father was very much in favor of his son attending college rather than signing for a couple million dollars.

The father was very much involved. My standard advice was consistent with what was mentioned above. It was their decision… not mine!

The fathers reasoning…. He was/is a very wealthy man involved in land development. His son’s financial future was secure because he could some day take over the business. In that case, the education would prove much more valuable than the baseball career (money)… if that is what would end up happening.

Hell… I couldn’t relate to the wealth of the father, but what he was saying made some sense! Maybe in this case, the education was more important for security reasons than the signing bonus. And his son is playing professional baseball after four years of college.

Just one of many different situations.

Is this Dr. Rawnsley? If so hello. PG, I understand your point of view on this. However, if he IS going to take over the business one day. Then what does college have to do with it? Nothing, he would take it over no matter what anyway! I'm quiet sure if he were to make it to the show he would far exceed his Dad's earning potential and with a great severence package as well! Makes no sense what so ever to turn down a million or more dollars. You become a Millionaire right away with Chances that will set you up for life. There are millions of people in this world, working long hours with low pay, with no time for anything else, that have college degree's. Yet they never can get ahead. Pro sports can allow you to get ahead and stay ahead. Ask MATT WHITE!

No... This is not Dr. Rawnsley. Hello though.

I think the fathers point was that his son would be better prepared for life and running a large business with a college education rather than signing a baseball contract out of high school.

His son indirectly was/is going to be a millionaire (multi) with or without baseball.

In his mind and in his son's situation, the college education would prepare his son for the one certainty. Point is, the money was no issue in this case!

I understand this is a unique situation. That is the point... there are many reasons why people might not come up with the same decision in the same situation.

I don't disagree with your points. I just don't think they apply in every single case.

Vance

quote:

Then what does college have to do with it? Nothing, he would take it over no matter what anyway!

With a formal business education his chances of being successful increase. If that were not true Columbia MBA grads would not command starting compensation packages averaging $145,000 annually.

Firms like Morgan Stanley would just go hire high school kids to plot their investment banking strategies, and pocket the change.

And I don't see that happening anytime soon.

The rules don't apply all the time. MOST people will earn more with a degree. Are there Ivy leaguers that are bums in the street. Yes, but not because they have a degree.

The kid had a back-up plan. One that made him a multi-millionaire when he was done with baseball, not if he finished baseball. Odds are he'll be done by 30 and back in business with his dad.

quote:

Ask MATT WHITE!

Vance, IMO, Matt White is the exception, even within the exception. Got very lucky on the money side, not so on the baseball.
Perhaps a more mainstream story.
We were sitting with the parents of a minor leaguer who signed out of high school. Contract does allow for him to return to college and have a good portion of that paid for through the tuition program. Appears after completing his 4th year in the minors that getting beyond AA is unlikely. Parents are both insistent he return to college and get his degree. The problem is he has now met a girl and intends to get married during the off season and has no interest in returning to college. His signing bonus was not in the millions, has mostly been spent and the tuition value may likely never be used. I think this is the more usual scenario, not Matt White.

And maybe he will take up a trade. College does not guarantee success.

The only thing that assures success be it college or pro ball is the individuals drive and perservernace--- the "drive" is the key and the difference just as it has been for the player thru his HS days

quote:

Originally posted by njbb:
And maybe he will take up a trade. College does not guarantee success.

Agree completely njbb. There aren't guarantees whichever road/fork is taken and the road, whichever path is taken is full of bumps and potholes. The point I was making is the Matt White example, to me, just doesn't fit for 99.9% of the draftees. At some point, whether they sign or go to college, most all of them will confront the ramifications of that choice. Being a senior sign from college creates issues of its own in pursuing professional baseball as a path. Anticipating/planning either path as the "guaranteed" way to success, financial or otherwise might work for a very small percentage. The rest will end up making real world decisions, pretty much like the rest of us.

In the example above the father was very involved, but I wonder what the kid wanted to do. The son could spend his life regreting a decision he made in order to follow his father's dream instead of his own.

If a kid turns down a 1st round offer to attend college, HE needs to clearly understand and be very comfortable with the fact that the same baseball opportunity might not be there again.

Liberty,

That is a very good point. We always thought if it was left up to the kid, he would of signed right out of high school.

We should remember that the same kid will now have a "prestegious" degree and will be in Double A next year. He has a good chance of making it to the Big Leagues.

In this case, where money was not the biggest concern could we say.... Maybe...

Father Knows Best????

If it were up to my son, he would go pro. His chances of being drafted are slim at best out of HS, so it's only an exercise of speculation for us.

But, he has three great friends. One was drafted by the NYY a couple of years ago in the 6th round or so. He is absolutely happy with his decision. He also has a friend that will be drafted high next year, and will probably be going pro.

But, he has another friend that is committed to a D1, and is looking forward to getting his degree.

All three kids are excellent ballplayers, but they will all make different decisions. The great thing, is all three of them have OPTIONS. Something that a lot of our kids don't have.

Even though my kid is a top notch student and will probably get more offers for achedemic money than for baseball money, if he were drafted, I would probably back his decision. Why? Because it's HIS life. HIS dream. HIS decision.

I have made a deal with all my kids, if you want to go to college, I will do everything in my power to pay for it. It doesn't matter if you are 40 years old. If you get good grades, I will continue to pay for your schooling. If you screw off, you pay.

My wife got her degree when she was 32. It can be done later in life, and actually, she excelled because she brought real world experiences to class.

Some kids aren't ready for a university when they are 18 years old.

I'm not sure what the minor league salary scale and benefits are but I'm sure they are nowhere near what has been quoted in an earlier post, if I remember correctly, they only play a few months a year and the rest of the year they are not on the team’s payroll. (maybe someone can enlighten us on the minor leaguer’s life)

To me you take several other items into consideration:

How long before you’d expect before you reach the “show”?
Are you ready for the minor league life? Life style and maturity?
Can you be disciplined enough to put away enough money to support you if you quit and go back to school?
If you are good enough to make it through the minor league system, and you continue working on your game, shouldn’t you be worth similar money in three years?
What do you want to do after you ball career if you are not one of the guys who make the millions?

Obrady asks an interesting question "What do you want to do after your ball career if you are not one of hte guys who make the millions?"

Just two days ago, I was on the phone with a friend who is a former MLB player that was calling to tell me he was looking for something new for a way to earn a living. We talked about a few different things that he might do, but he said something I haven't forgotten or figured our how to respond to: "What is a 40-something ex-ballplayer going to do for a real world job when all he's ever done is play baseball?"

This guy has never done anything except play ball or do other jobs around the game. Now, he's suddenly faced with the prospect of having to find employment outside the game, and realizes that he may not have the skills or education necessary to do anything that will allow him to earn much of a living, and will probably require him to work hours that he's never known before.

I think this scenario is way more common than many wish to believe. What do you think?

06catcherdad,

If your 40-something friend has been involved in baseball(MLB) up to this age, he should not have to worry about future jobs if he has been prudent about investing his $... even if he has always been at the lower end of the MLB pay scale.

If he has hung on to baseball for this same period of time at the minor league level(where the pay is nowhere near as good), he has had his head seriously buried in the sand.

Every player needs to stay realistic in their views about what baseball will provide for them and about what they can do once baseball is over.

Welcome back to the real world- he was able to delay it for about 20-some years longer than most of us were able to... time to get a job!

OPP

I know lots of women who at 40 something went back to school and started new careers.

06catcherdad - I believe it is more common than folks want to believe too. I know a few ex-big leaguers too...one is doing great (he made a lot of money in the game), one is doing fine (real estate agent...didn't make a lot of money) and one is struggling (had a couple of short stints in the big leagues).

I think when you're young, its sometimes hard to imagine that it won't last forever and to plan for that properly.

OPP, I think it's about more than just the money. I don't know this guy well enough to really know how well off he is. He did play at the big league level for more than a few years. Heck, he even has a ring from one magical year. I think his dilemna is more from the standpoint of what the heck does a guy do when he's done with baseball?

Even if he's fine financially, when you're only in your 40's, its kinda hard to just sit back and play full time house husband, I would think. I think its great for the guys who are able to get jobs in the game, either coaching or scouting; but that sure doesn't take care of the number of players who leave the game and don't have the skills to have multiple career options, or the money to do nothing if they so choose.

The region I live in has produced a large number of professional players, many major leaguers. Of those players, most were taken either out of high school, or more commonly, out of Jr. College. I wonder how many of them have real life career skills. I do remember an acquiantance, back in the 80's, that was on a MLB 40 man roster. This guy drove a milk delivery truck in the off-season to make ends meet. Nothing wrong with being a milk man at all, but it was kind of a surprised to see a guy doing this, who played major league ball at the same time.

quote:

We knew a very high profile high school prospect who told MLB Clubs up front he was most interested in attending school. He was an almost certain 1st rounder (1.5 to 2.5 million)

Because of his signability situation he was selected later on in that years draft and of course went to college. He now is playing professional baseball, but signed out of college for a fraction of what he could have received out of high school.

Hope the father up in Going Pro forum sees this post by PG. Especially if the prospect could fall in this category.

Shep's theory on this situation: Get the dough while the gettins good

My son is a senior this year. He told me that if he has the opportunity that he will sign no matter what round. He has signed with a college, and he knows I support what ever decision he makes.

quote:

He told me that if he has the opportunity that he will sign no matter what round.

Just make sure they know he's on the way and not on their "draft and follow" list. Otherwise he could turn pro and have no where to play.

Dad04

you have a PM

Dad04,
I don't understand how a scout signs a player to a pro contract and they don't let him play? I thought a draft and follow is just that, drafted and followed while he attends college OR you sign and go play pro ball.

njbb-maybe someone with more experience can explain this better. But the way I understand it is that the kid is drafted but not signed...sometimes or most times (especially when drafted very late) the club is asking you attend a JC to "follow" your progress. I know that for us, prior to the draft, scouts discussed all kinds of scenarios including, "we would want you to sign right away, we want to have a look at you over the summer, or we want you to play a year of JC and we'll follow you".

In the scenario dad04 talks about it sounds like the scout that drafted that kid did not communicate very well or the kid wasn’t listening very well. Either way, a very sad story.

From what I understand, when you are a draft and follow, the scout tells you the organizaton does not want you to sign at this time. They have to offer you the contract. You can sign it and play ball against the advice of the organization.

Adam Loewen turned down 2.7 million. Went to Chipola for 1 year and signed a 4 yr deal for 3.2M + 4M. That is a risky move and he is still in the minors after 3 years.

Many players get drafted, play Juco as DF then go onto a 4 year school.

How can you sign and be eligible for NCAA?

I was never under the impression a DF signs anything.

some other thoughts on the Havens situation...he committed to USC as a high school sophomore. Two of his friends (Justin Smoak and Mike Cisco) also signed to come to USC. Ray Tanner runs a class program and I can only remember 1 big name high school prospect turning down an scholarship at USC to take the money (Chad Billingsley? early round pick of the Dodgers a few years ago who is due to make it to the Bigs sometime soon). as I understand it Justin Smoak also turned down first or second round money to come to USC. Drew Meyer came from the same high school as Havens, as I understand also turned down big money out of high school turned around became the 13th overall pick in the draft his junior year...and just recently went 2-5 in his first major league game the other night. Plus Coach Tanner has a history of making short stops into All-American, high draft picks, and major leaguers. Brian Roberts, Adam Everett, and now Drem Meyer were 3 of the last 4 (maybe 5) shortstops to start for USC and are all in the major leagues now, and the 4th I believe saw a few games with the Twins in Spring training. If Havens continues his solid play at short (I only remember him making one error this season and that came in his first game) and continues hitting the ball hard, he will make his money, plus have a college education.

quote:

Originally posted by Shepster:

quote:

We knew a very high profile high school prospect who told MLB Clubs up front he was most interested in attending school. He was an almost certain 1st rounder (1.5 to 2.5 million)

Because of his signability situation he was selected later on in that years draft and of course went to college. He now is playing professional baseball, but signed out of college for a fraction of what he could have received out of high school.

Hope the father up in Going Pro forum sees this post by PG. Especially if the prospect could fall in this category.

Shep's theory on this situation: Get the dough while the gettins good

Had to go back and find it Here ya go. Peace, Shep

Shep, I believe in your Statement.
If said player's are in that Catagory. 1st,2nd round pick's.
If said Player's are Phisically, Mentally ready for that Jump.

In son's case, neather one of this is true.
Although, I believe he could compete.
Is the Organization going to give them the time to Mature.
5, 6, 7Yrs. down the road.
That would be my biggest concern with signing out of HS. EH

Maybe that kid's family is really rich and he doesnt need the money? He could then afford to go to college and play 3 years???

food for thought right there...

KAYMART


Some times it has nothing to do with money

Kaymart4

quote:

Maybe that kid's family is really rich and he doesnt need the money? He could then afford to go to college and play 3 years???

Really How many Rich baseball player's are out there??

In are case, It's how much sacrifice are we willing to make. EH

quote:

Maybe that kid's family is really rich and he doesnt need the money? He could then afford to go to college and play 3 years???

I can give you several examples from right there in Marietta that played on Coach Beaver's East Cobb Yankees who opted to College and are having surgery, need to have surgery or no longer as marketable as high level prospects by choosing college first and using those years in college in lieu of pros. With this in mind, let me pose this question: Do you think "already having money" will give those prospects the choice now? peace, Shep

Shep, You should know better then that.
It would not matter if player was in college are pro ball,
If the injury bug bite's you.
That's the nature of the game.
Would it not be a good thing to have a college degree to fall back on.
Now I realize that your only Talking about the big Bonus Baby's.
And it would be hard to pass that much money up,
If baseball was your first choice in life.
If player was also an academic all american, and wanted to be a doctor/lawyer/ect. Said player would want to get a jump on there Education, before they jump into baseball. EH

EH....there is a big difference, and I am ashamed of you EH for not seeing. If you sign the pro contract and go play and get hurt its still money in the bank. Not the case if you go to college and get hurt!

Best of both worlds--- playing college baseball and getting an education--not a bad way to go

TR HIT, true. But so is having money in the bank and chasing a childhood dream of playing in the big leagues!

Not a thing wrong with either! Just tell us before the draft you wanta go to school and we will move on to a player that does wanta chase that dream.

I look at it this way--- you make you living convincing players to sign--or you dont eat

I dont-- I want kids to have choices for their future

I am not sure either that you ever even develop a relationship with a kid--we do

TR HIT SAID

quote:

I look at it this way--- you make you living convincing players to sign--or you dont eat

and you wonder why I call you CLUELESS!

TR HIT, I get paid, like ALL SCOUTS, with a salary. We don't get paid on convincing kids to sign. We get paid to identify the best players.


TR HIT SAID

quote:

I dont-- I want kids to have choices for their future

Well, I don't know if you get paid, and I don't care! But you do deal with the college recruiting situation. So maybe you get paid to sale your company's services. BUT WHO CARES!

TR HIT SAID

quote:

I am not sure either that you ever even develop a relationship with a kid

It really is telling just how CLUELESS you really are. Most scouts I know, STILL talk to their players by phone that they have signed. Allot will even go see them in their 1st big league game. Speaking for me only. I have players I didn't even sign that some other club signed that call me almost on a weekly bases. I have Dads and Moms who call as well. As a matter of fact I just enjoyed dinner at the home of one of them a few days ago. I'll guarantee a scouts relationship with a player and his parents is far more in depth than yours.

One thing life has taught me - in any endeavor - whether it be business - sports - or anything else.

The ones that proclaim to have all the right answers for everyone - usually have none of the right answers for anyone.

LOL

Alot of cyber sound and fury - signifying - NOTHING.

VANCE

As I said earlier--you have your way of doing things and I have mine--I happen to like may way better than yours and also said I didn't wwant to get into a "pissing contest" because it proves nothing

Incidently you might try reading what I post not what you want it to say

I said "I am not sure" when talking about your relationship with players-- I never said I had a better one than you but you felt you needed to make that jab

You are just like Blue Dog--you cannot answer a question straight or without downing anyone

Have A nice day

quote:

You are just like Blue Dog--you cannot answer a question straight or without downing anyone

TR HIT, you and TPM, TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE!

quote:

I said "I am not sure"

TR HIT, Thats the 1st time you have said something Right!

EH, I live in East Cobb...home of some of the richest people in the state of GA. And there are plenty of good ball players here too. For a while i believe Bobby Cox lived around here. My mom saw him one day at the Wal-mart by us too. And just the other day i was at a braves game, in amazing seats by the way, and was sitting in front of the son of the guy that invented quik-crete.

Dad04 just my input is that i didnt see the person but he may have declined in the fact that he wanted and education.. Not sure. All i know is that my high school career counselor laughs at kids when they say they wanna go to college to play baseball. But im hoping to defy her and shove it in her face in 3 years!

Never leave money on the table. If you would look back at HS kids who have foregone the draft, the majority are worse off after their 3 years of improving their draft status playing college ball.

MLB gives full rides, and if you are not Randy Johnsons clone, take the money!

At least with respect to the very top prospects, this is not true. Check out Baseball America's article on this subject, where they track several who turned down the money out of HS. There are a few who did worse, but most improved their stock.

BA did not track middle or late rounders. But few of them make the majors, so an education might be more important to them than a $50,000 signing bonus and a $12,000 annual salary.

The one thing that is often left out of these discussions, however, is Rule 5. Those who sign out of HS are 3-4 years closer to being eligible for the Rule 5 draft, making them less likely to be buried in an organization if they truly have talent.

This is another case that has no correct answer. It is all individual choice. Any and all decisions could turn out right or wrong. No crystal ball!

For those who say it’s stupid to turn down the money… There are examples like Andrew Miller and John Mayberry Jr.

Was Mayberry stupid for turning down first round money out of high school? He will now end up with a degree from Stanford and he received even more money after coming out of college. For him and many others!... Not signing turned out to be the right decision! Miller will end up with a degree from UNC and received a lot more money to sign out of college and he has already appeared in the Big Leagues. For him… Not signing was a GREAT decision! Yes, there are cases that go the other way, too!

Lastings Milledge, David Wright, Ryan Sweeney, Chad Billingsley, Jeremy Bonderman, Delmon Young, Carl Crawford, Scott Kazmir, and many others made the right decision by signing out of high school. Yes, there are many cases where players would have been better off going to college, too.

MidloDad, brings up one important advantage in signing out of high school, in addition to money, for the most talented. Signing out of high school not only makes you closer to Rule 5 or the 40 man roster, it makes all the important anniversary dates come quicker. However, that by it self, should not be the main reason for signing.

There are several reasons for signing or not signing out of high school. Money is only one reason and unfortunately it has become the major focus. To me, the major reason for signing should be because the player has a strong desire to make baseball his career. Everything else is a distant second place! When this is the case, it’s hard to say no to signing a professional baseball contract.

IMO – The money should not be the major reason for signing, but it is in many cases. There are more important things than money and more important things than baseball or college educations. There are lots of very sad examples of that!

quote:

There are several reasons for signing or not signing out of high school. Money is only one reason and unfortunately it has become the major focus. To me, the major reason for signing should be because the player has a strong desire to make baseball his career. Everything else is a distant second place! When this is the case, it’s hard to say no to signing a professional baseball contract.

I'm strictly looking at this from a Parent's point of view.
And one that has not a clue to what goes on in the mind's of
MLB club's, Scouting Director's, Associate Scout's.

Just because a player chooses School over Pro ball.
Does not mean he does not have just as much of a burning desire to play Pro ball.
Some player's are ready for the grind of the Minor league's out of HS.
Some player's would do better with a few year's of Maturety.

JMHO EH

EH,

I agree completely. Sorry if things sounded differently.

But on that subject…

I know those who didn't have the maturity to handle college life or other things, on their own for the first time. Personally I think it takes more maturity and self control to handle college life than it does to play professional baseball.

Guess my thoughts weren’t clear enough… Didn’t mean that college players don’t have a burning desire. In fact, know many who surely do!

Regarding looking at things from a parents standpoint, I'm sure I have a backward view. I see choosing a sons path to something he truly loves (so long as it's legal and not overly dangerous) very similiar to choosing his future wife. Both can be discussed and hopefully he will listen to sound advice, but in the end he will win or you will lose.

quote:

Guess my thoughts weren’t clear enough… Didn’t mean that college players don’t have a burning desire. In fact, know many who surely do!

PG, It wasn't your thought's.
It's just the vibe I recieved from some of the other poster's.

I just believe in doing thing's in step's.
LL, Select ball, HS, College, Pro's.

About the time a student reaches his sophmore year in HS,
It's his/her choice to what they desire after HS.

In Son's case, He just went with the flow, did what he needed to do and thing's worked out so far. With a long way to go.

The only thing a parent can really do is Support there effort.
And be Pro active with the opportunities that present themselves.
What do I mean by being pro Active.
I once last spring, Chased down a College Baseball Team Bus.
I mean chased all through out Santa Monica Blvd.
Just to get a chance to talk to the Recruiting Cordinator.
It was strictly Spontanous.
And that's just one of the many spontanous thing's I've done.
Never let a geniune opportunity pass you by.
Take advantage of everything that present's itself.

As far as the original post.
It would be hard to turn down 1st round money out of HS.
And I'm sure that said player's have all the support they need to make the right decision that's best for them. EH

quote:

RAMROD, you can only play baseball for so long. You can go to school no matter how old you are! and, since when did employers start handing out 1.3 million bonuses to people with a 4 year college degree or a 5 yr one or a 10 yr one either for that matter???????? 1.3 million and a college scholarship for 4 years ALL paid for. So he turns down the money and he is on a 70 % scholarship to South Carolina and his parents have to come up with the other 30 % and spending money too!

Vance34, That's what I'm talking 'bout!! peace

For you "PRO SCOUTS" a question

Of all the kids who get the "College Money" as part of the deal how many use it? And isnt there a time frame on the use?

By the way my Grandfather and great fishing buddy was a used car salesman if you get the drift!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
For you "PRO SCOUTS" a question

Of all the kids who get the "College Money" as part of the deal how many use it? And isnt there a time frame on the use?

By the way my Grandfather and great fishing buddy was a used car salesman if you get the drift!!!!

A nice Bureau scout told me MLB is considering the University of Phoenix, you know, off the matchbook cover.To reduce costs. There is a time frame. Don't wallow in your beer for a few years, but do it after you are out of college after being out of the game.

Shepster says take the money, and it is hard not to. Of the 600 or so high school players drafted in 2003, 55 of them were re-drafted in 2006 after their junior year of college. The rest either went pro, went to college, and are college seniors with one season of hope, or are outta the game.

Bully's Mom,
Most universitiies require a student with 30 hours or less to get their degree at that school. So that wouldn't work too well for the drafted player out of college.

quote:

Shepster says take the money, and it is hard not to. Of the 600 or so high school players drafted in 2003, 55 of them were re-drafted in 2006 after their junior year

Of the 600 HS player's drafted, How many were 1st round draft pick's??
How many of the 600 would still be in Pro ball after 3 or 4 year's.

!st, 2nd, maybe 3rd. Rd. draft pick's Get a good Bonus.
At least enough to make it worth there while to follow a Dream.
Otherwise, after a 6 month minor league season, Your Looking for a Job in the off season, Are living off your Parent's.
Who are trying to help you chase your dream.

Being Drafted out of HS is a fantastic accomplishment.
Just know what your getting yourself into.
The Minor's are a grind and a sometimes lonely road.
Player's need to be Mentally tough, with a lot of Support.
Same goes for College, You still have to be Mentally tough.
And be supported by your Parent's.

Pro Baseball Become's a Job, And when you have a Job.
Your expected to be able to pay your way. If you catch my Drift.
I can get my Kid a Job, Is it what he want's to do for the rest of his life??


A player has to look at there situation, and decide.
When is my best chance of making it to the Major League.

But don't tell ME that if a player chooses College first.
That they don't have a BURNING desire to play PRO ball.

I would like to think that Money has nothing to do with the Desire to play Pro ball.
The Game itself would be enough for me.
EH

ECON 101

OPPORTUNITY COST

The benefit foregone in an effort to gain another benefit.

Assume those 55 redrafted kids represent 10%. Say 20% took the draft, with or without a bonus.

The rest are basically toast, mainly because 3 classes joined the mix in the interim, let alone all the JUCO's

It is all about math. By the way, about 550 college kids were drafted in 2006 that were never drafted in 2003.

My point lends neither me being a proponent, or opponent of signing out of high school. It only proves that if you can play consistently over the years, they will find you regardless of whether you are at Dallas Baptist or Florida State.

quote:

The benefit foregone in an effort to gain another benefit.

Assume those 55 redrafted kids represent 10%. Say 20% took the draft, with or without a bonus.

The rest are basically toast, mainly because 3 classes joined the mix in the interim, let alone all the JUCO's

It is all about math. By the way, about 550 college kids were drafted in 2006 that were never drafted in 2003.

Player's hopes of making pro ball a career end in college and in the minors so players turn into toast in college and in the minors. However, I think I would rather be "toast" with a college degree that just "plain old uneducated toast". I agree with your reference to ECON 101 --- BUT what will always be debated is which is the greater benefit --- a college degree or a chance to play professional baseball? No one really knows for sure how they will react until the cards are on the table. My justification for urging my son to pass on the MLB offer when he was drafted out of high school was because I had convinced myself that if he's good enough to play professionally, he's good enough to play professionally with a college education. Maturity also factors in but I think the main issue was pointed out by PGStaff when he said it usually comes down to the signing bonus. I admit if the money were life changing I would have encouraged him to sign. What's life changing money? Well, that's another topic.....(as soon as I can find a ECON 101 book)
Fungo

Just watching the Monday night Football game.
And they were talking about Bill Parcell's and his Unbiased approuch to his Player's.
Meaning: He didn't care if they were 1st rd. are last rd. pick's.
Play the best.

I've alway's heard that in MLB that the more they have invested the more they find Oppurtuinities for you to play.

I like the Unbiased approuch better.

What puzzles me is the difference in opinions between pro ball players and scouts.

My husband and I have talked personally with two pro players (in minor leagues) from different organizations and had a friend who talked to a major leaguer. The advice all three gave were nearly identical. [If you don’t go in the early rounds and get BIG money -go to college.]

If going to college hurts your chances of making it why are so many pro ball players giving this same advice?

Edit: And to clarify “early rounds” is like 1st – 3rd.