Sore Arms "in general"

there is a difference between a sore tired arm (muscle) versus a sore arm (painful).

Yes, sore muscles are common during this period. Usually a coach will recognize this and ramp down for one day to allow recovery.

Icing should be done to help reduce muscle soreness. Also incorporate some cardio (running if possible) to reduce lactic acid build up in the muscle which is the common source of muscle soreness.

Yes I'm sure there are a lot of sore arms right now.

But they don't have to be sore.

If a kid's arm is poorly conditioned, and he goes "balls to the wall" now that baseball tryouts have started, then sure...he'll have a sore arm.

A player should've have been throwing for at least 2 months already. Working up to throwing at least 5 days/week, doing band work, weights, the whole bit.

If he is conditioned well...then the arm will be fine and ready to go.

RobV


Well said !

We have used a gel or lotion with Arnica to help with sore muscles. Not injured just sore. Works on umpire knees too. (and spring gardening knees too)

not really to your question, but son has used it as needed the last few years.

quote:

Originally posted by RobV:
Yes I'm sure there are a lot of sore arms right now.

But they don't have to be sore.

If a kid's arm is poorly conditioned, and he goes "balls to the wall" now that baseball tryouts have started, then sure...he'll have a sore arm.

Absolutely correct.

It's a slow process getting ready for season. The problem is as you state, many HS kids start preparation late then try to turn on the gas in tryouts and practice which they shouldn't. Or the coach lets them throw too much. The result is a sore arm.
Many pitchers arms also warm to the weather, they go full steam ahead too eary. The object is to build up your arm stength during the season as well, not all at one time.

Great points so far. You have to have an off season throwing program to get your arm in shape before tryouts but that is not always the case with every kid. Once practice starts you have to be ready to throw and throw a lot.

There is a huge difference between pain and soreness. If it's pain get to the doctor ASAP, tell the coach and parents - do something to help your arm. If it's soreness which is usually in the muscles then you need scale back some but not stop. Think of it like this - if you start lifting weights on Monday and go full bore by Wednesday your muscles will be screaming. If you start slow on Monday you will probably be feeling it on Wednesday but the best thing to do is work through it.

I am in a different situation this year with the weather. We have had only about 3 or 4 practices outside to be able to long toss and build up arm strength. So we are really behind in that regard. Our 3 or 4 practices have been on the parking lot so we are really behind in a lot of things.

Throwing in the gym will not get you ready for the season. So once we get going outside I am going to have to watch my guys because I can't have them get sore / dead arms during our games. Our period to work through that has already passed.

I am going to go at this topic from a bunch of different angles ...so bare with me, I hope it doesn't ramble too much. Also, let me say that I am not a doctor. I'll probably provide too much info...but maybe someone will find it useful.

First, young kids (under age 14 or pre-puberty)...
Kids in this age group typically have hard time with body awareness, to the degree that they cannot discern muscle soreness with pain ...until the pain is severe. Doctors tell us that with young kids, the way they often tell what is what is they ask the kid "where does it hurt...and point to it" more often than not if they can't point to it , or they point to a whole area you are dealing with normal soreness. However, if the kid can point right at it (typically near a joint-shoulder or elbow)there is a larger structural issue...growth plate etc. etc.

I have also found that with younger players, edpecially talented ones that put a lot of pressure on themselves ... they need to be told that a) soreness is normal and pain is not and b)that they MUST tell a coach or parent when they have either one. In addition, in light of what I posted above ...it is good to try and explain to them the difference between pain and soreness and how that might feel.

HS Players (HS Tryouts etc. etc.)
I've found that the first year HS player experiences more overall body soreness (amrs, legs etc.) than usual because their bodies are not use to practicing and/or playing everyday. Just a few weeks ago I asked a question about leg soreness for my player who is transitioning from SS to being an everyday HS Catcher...his inner thigh (adductor muscles) had never been sore before in his life. we iced his legs each night for two or three evenings...and voila...good as new.

Relative to arms...
I believe that regardless of an offseason throwing program or not ...if the player does not throw extensively in the 2-4 weeks prior to tryouts, their arms will become very sore, and the players ability will become diminished. What I have done with players I have coached ...prior to tryouts is to have them throw - moderate long toss 3 days a week in the month (two weeks minimum) before tryouts. On non-throwing days they should do a light armband workout, or some arm exercises with light dumbbell (no more than 5lbs.). Bare in mind that the arm will be relatively sore after the first week ...and that they should ice as soon after throwing as possible.

Arm soreness, or any muscle soreness, excluding a torn or damaged muscle is caused by lactic acid buildup in the muscle. This is remedied by increased blood flow in the body and/or specific muscle groups that are sore. This can be achieved by running immediately after extensive throwing and/or the light arm workout the next day.

General Comments...
You can't ice too often ...you can ice for too long (causing frost bite etc.)but not too often. Generally people think of icing arms as a pitcher thing...something position players shouldn't or don do. In my opinion, this is not true. Listen for code words (particularly midseason)like "my arm was dead today" "my arm doesn't feel strong" "I just dont have any life in my arm right now" ... This should automatically mean ICE!! Give your players arm a nice refresher and ICE it. Typically I see no reason a position player shouldn't ice 1xweek after practice while relaxing at home...it'll do wonders.

In short... throw more out of season and Ice often.

Here is what happens. Young kids "Freshman" coming into a hs program have never experienced throwing at the level they will have to throw in hs. Most have never practiced everyday and thrown everyday. They come from situations where they practice a couple of times a week and play on the weekends. Or they come from a middle school program that does not prepare them for hs practices or the schedule.

Then you have the three month players that wait until the hs season starts to start throwing. Of course they are going to have sore arms. The players that are on a regular throwing program and prepare for the season well in advance do not have sore arms. Our players are ready to play a game on the first day of the season. They have prepared for the season not waited for the season to start to get ready.

Arm problems come from not throwing enough and then trying to throw too much most of the time. Quite frankly you shouldnt have a sore arm. If you do its because you did not properly prepare for the season. That should have started way before the season started.

he's been throwing once or more a week (travel practices, & high school voluntary stuff) for the last 4 months, also played fall ball. As of the last month, workouts have been harder and more throwing. Just not much pitching. Now, as of the last few weeks, more hardcore pitching has started...and that's when soreness started (bicep/tricep), and then today (tryouts started today) more soreness but down further toward elbow. Iced it down. Later this evening I felt his arm around elbow ligaments/tendons pushing with slight pressure and no pain felt. Appears to be soreness and he was throwing through it today (good or bad?) He mentioned that other kids are complaining of sore arms as well.

By the way, thanks for the responses so far!

Switchitter, have you had the arm checked out by a Dr. ?
It's been sore for a couple weeks now.
Whats your feeling on why it's sore.
Just normal training soreness??
Run a lot to get the Lactic acids out of your muscle's it will help.
Band work, and long toss in the off season will also help before the season starts.
EH

quote:

Originally posted by theEH:
Switchitter, have you had the arm checked out by a Dr. ?
It's been sore for a couple weeks now.
Whats your feeling on why it's sore.
Just normal training soreness??
Run a lot to get the Lactic acids out of your muscle's it will help.
Band work, and long toss in the off season will also help before the season starts.
EH

thanks, i'm going to really stress the running. i think it's normal training soreness but will be keeping a very close eye on it. he contends normal soreness and no need to worry. but i know how this goes because last year minor shoulder issue (not fun).

ICE!

quote:

Originally posted by Estone28:
ICE!

Actually this may not be true. AMSI the leading baseball arm care group indicates that this may not be the case. Some light icing may be beneficial but aerobic exercise is preferred after throwing particularly for pitchers. They are currently conducting a study on it. Working the “decelerator” muscles with bands are also very helpful.

quote:

Originally posted by BOF:

quote:

Originally posted by Estone28:
ICE!

Actually this may not be true. AMSI the leading baseball arm care group indicates that this may not be the case. Some light icing may be beneficial but aerobic exercise is preferred after throwing particularly for pitchers. They are currently conducting a study on it. Working the “decelerator” muscles with bands are also very helpful.

Fair enough. I covered running, as well as, light dumbell or armband work in my novel above.

It isn't unusual for the kids to not tell the coach when their arm is sore when they are trying to make a team or win a position. One freshman I know of ended up at the doctor who diagnosed a very mild UCL sprain and shut the kid down for 6 or 7 weeks. Good thing they went to the doctor. They caught it soon enough and it healed just fine. Nice thing is that shutting down didn't affect him as far as making the team. Hard to know what anyone could have done differently.

BTW, that minor shoulder issue is a bit of a red flag as shoulder problems very often lead to elbow problems.

My son used to get sore armwhen he was freshmen, we incorporated band work through a program called thrive on throwing which incorporates long toss. My son actually felt less soreness as he threw more often and hasnt had any other problems. But he throws long toss at least three times a week in the off season.and the band work.

quote:

Originally posted by switchitter:
he's been throwing once or more a week (travel practices, & high school voluntary stuff) for the last 4 months, also played fall ball.

Sorry but throwing once a week isn't enough. With that type of routine, he could've been damaging his arm little by little for the past 4 months, and now you're seeing the results of that damamge.

He should get checked by a doctor if it's a concern. Then he may need to shut it down for a few weeks, and start up again gradually with more regular throwing. Especially if he is young.

Very well said, other things would be - the pitchers need to inform coaches and parents to make sure it isn't a medical issue. Second, coaches need to adhere to pitch counts and days of rest in between games. Remember these are young men that have probably been playing summer and fall ball and if they lay off for 3 months conditioning will be an issue.

Winning at all cost is not fair to these young men!

quote:

Originally posted by lifetimebaseballfan:
Very well said, other things would be - the pitchers need to inform coaches and parents to make sure it isn't a medical issue. Second, coaches need to adhere to pitch counts and days of rest in between games. Remember these are young men that have probably been playing summer and fall ball and if they lay off for 3 months conditioning will be an issue.

Winning at all cost is not fair to these young men!

update on arm (perhaps this will tell more):

Arm only hurts after throwing. No pain during throwing. Icing it down after each day of tryouts. He says there is plenty of running going on during practice. He would not lay off the throwing. Told me "how am I suppose to do that during a tryout!!??".

BTW, he was throwing more than once a week because you have to include other voluntary work-outs and some work on his own in addition to once-a-week travel team practice throughout the winter.

When you say "after throwing" do you mean each throw, or in the evening after practice?

Also, what age is he and how would you characterize his developmental maturity level?

Is the pain pinpoint or is it area pain?

If the soreness is after practice at night, and you are icing ..and the next day it feels good during tryouts, it just sounds like general soreness.

quote:

Originally posted by Estone28:
When you say "after throwing" do you mean each throw, or in the evening after practice? I ask him that same question and the response was after the tryout (as opposed to after each throw)

Also, what age is he and how would you characterize his developmental maturity level? 16 - 180lbs/good build/<6'

Is the pain pinpoint or is it area pain? not really pinpoint but general pain in the upper arm from elbow or just above elbow and above

If the soreness is after practice at night, and you are icing ..and the next day it feels good during tryouts, it just sounds like general soreness. Yes, putting ice on for about 15-20 min. max only once during the evening. Yes, for example, this morning it did not hurt or feel bad but I don't truely know if he was completely honest with me. Thanks for your response(s)

After you have chewed on the above responses and commented on them, I would like to ask one question of you. Since it's full-blast from here on out pretty much everyday, what should I be looking out for with his arm soreness/pain?

If the pain is pinpoint pain, you are looking at the possibility of a growth plate issue, or some other structural damage to the shoulder. The likelyhood of this is severly diminished because of his size and age.

It sounds like general soreness, however the "elbow up" description is intersting. Does he currently pitch, or has he pitched a lot previously? Is it Elbow Up on the inside our outside of the arm?

I would continue to ICE, and make sure you are icing the inside of the elbow, as well as, the shoulder.

Also, if there are no baseball activities scheduled this weekend ...rest his arm, do not throw.

One other question I must ask ... is he doing any other throwing that may have gone overlooked, like a dodgeball, tennis-ball or football during PE??

quote:

Originally posted by Estone28:
If the pain is pinpoint pain, you are looking at the possibility of a growth plate issue, or some other structural damage to the shoulder. The likelyhood of this is severly diminished because of his size and age.

It sounds like general soreness, however the "elbow up" description is intersting. Does he currently pitch, or has he pitched a lot previously? yes, pitching started up last week before tryouts and some pain occured when there wasn't proper warm-ups before throwing hardIs it Elbow Up on the inside our outside of the arm?I did ask exactly where the elbow pain was and it was INSIDE

I would continue to ICE, and make sure you are icing the inside of the elbow, as well as, the shoulder. I believe he was getting the ice on the inside of the elbow last night but I'll make sure it continues

Also, if there are no baseball activities scheduled this weekend ...rest his arm, do not throw.we'll do

One other question I must ask ... is he doing any other throwing that may have gone overlooked, like a dodgeball, tennis-ball or football during PE?? no other throwing that I am aware of

I'm not a doctor...I want to be clear on that.

In my estimation his pain is probably a slight strain or stress of the Ulner Collateral Ligament in the arm.



ICE the inside of the elbow and rest it when possible. Make sure proper and extensive arm warm-up is taking place before throwing. You may want to get him either an armband or a light dumbell to use for warmup prior to throwing. In place of a dumbbell, you can use a tennis ball cannister filled with dirt and wrapped with duct tape.

If the pain severly increases or you see a significant decrease of throwing velocity, consult a physician immediately.

I dont know the severity of his pain, but a little bit at the start of a season is normal for some. A lot of pain continued is another situation.

Switchitter-

Take your son to an orthopaedic doctor. Pain around the elbow should not be ignored. Yes, there is a chance the doc will shut down his arm but his arm is not going to heal if he keeps throwing.

My junior son is a pitcher, in the midst of tryouts, and has been experiencing pain. I took him to the doctor yesterday (fearing the worst). Turns out he has bicep tendonitis. He can't throw for 10 days, must ice every 3 hours and is taking a prescription NSAID twice a day for 15 days. He'll start an interval throwing program in 10 days and hopefully be back on the mound in 3 weeks.

A three week layoff is worth gaining a healthy arm!!

Remember too, that in some cases the kids have been throwing too much. On my son's team a kid played on 4 different teams last summer and on 2-3 different teams in the fall. He was a catcher and also pitched. In Illinois H.S. practices started Feb 26. This kid has yet to throw because his arm is sore. I am sure there are many others like him out there.

ok. i will take these suggestions, diagnoses, comments on advisement. I will check with him when he gets home from tryouts to see what he is experiencing. He was adament that he would be fine and was ticked that I kept asking questions. It's a very delicate balance with these kids because of coaches and the whole process. Can be very irritating for us as parents because we are the "bad-guys" either way you look at it. We ask too many questions, we are on them all the time to share info and be open and honest about pain/soreness, etc. Darned if you do, Darned if you don't.

switchitter - my guess is that you and your son might feel better once you know exactly what it is and how to make it better, even though he's griping now. I agree with EStone that it's probably not the growth plate - his player and mine both went through that and it takes forever to get over - and I know he's done a lot of research. Having an expert look at it and tell your son how to take care of it will be worth the aggravation - whether the diagnosis is something serious or just soreness.

Also - don't discount a second opinion if you get bad news. 2B was having elbow pain in early December, and we went to our favorite doc, who said three months off, maybe surgery. Couldn't get him in for the MRI to make sure until January - the day after tryouts! Devastated, we went home and 2Bdad said, how about a second opinion? Never occurred to us. The short version is that the diagnosis with doc #2 was the same (OCD), got him in for the MRI that week, looked good, the rehab was quick, he was ready for tryouts and his having a great season so far. Just had a follow up appointment and it's healing perfectly. Doc said, "go play."

Even if the doc shuts him down, it's worth it to get it healed sooner than later. I think you should find out what it is, and get it taken care of. You'll be glad you did.

quote:

Originally posted by 2Bmom:
switchitter - my guess is that you and your son might feel better once you know exactly what it is and how to make it better, even though he's griping now. I agree with EStone that it's probably not the growth plate - his player and mine both went through that and it takes forever to get over - and I know he's done a lot of research. Having an expert look at it and tell your son how to take care of it will be worth the aggravation - whether the diagnosis is something serious or just soreness.

Also - don't discount a second opinion if you get bad news. 2B was having elbow pain in early December, and we went to our favorite doc, who said three months off, maybe surgery. Couldn't get him in for the MRI to make sure until January - the day after tryouts! Devastated, we went home and 2Bdad said, how about a second opinion? Never occurred to us. The short version is that the diagnosis with doc #2 was the same (OCD), got him in for the MRI that week, looked good, the rehab was quick, he was ready for tryouts and his having a great season so far. Just had a follow up appointment and it's healing perfectly. Doc said, "go play."

Even if the doc shuts him down, it's worth it to get it healed sooner than later. I think you should find out what it is, and get it taken care of. You'll be glad you did.

Yep, I have to agree.

How can one (especially one that is not a doctor) maye a diagnosis over teh internet.

Sorry this is being irresponsible, giving such advice.

If your son is in paintake him to the doctor. If he feels a bit uncomfortable after he throws it many not be anything but you must be concerned or you wouldn't ask.

Been a while since son was in HS. What is the norm? Do players practice for a few weeks then tryout or it is immediately into tryouts then practice? Just curious.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
How can one (especially one that is not a doctor) maye a diagnosis over teh internet.

Sorry this is being irresponsible, giving such advice.

If your son is in paintake him to the doctor. If he feels a bit uncomfortable after he throws it many not be anything but you must be concerned or you wouldn't ask.

Been a while since son was in HS. What is the norm? Do players practice for a few weeks then tryout or it is immediately into tryouts then practice? Just curious.

they practice unofficially during off-season (winter), lift weights, throw, hit. not as much throwing. but also there is the summer team workouts which are once a week (just ended when school ball officially started practicing). So there has been quite a bit of throwing but just not pitching (only time to time). he did no bands in the off-season nor did he do long-toss (too cold).

quote:

Originally posted by switchitter:
ok. i will take these suggestions, diagnoses, comments on advisement. I will check with him when he gets home from tryouts to see what he is experiencing. He was adament that he would be fine and was ticked that I kept asking questions. It's a very delicate balance with these kids because of coaches and the whole process. Can be very irritating for us as parents because we are the "bad-guys" either way you look at it. We ask too many questions, we are on them all the time to share info and be open and honest about pain/soreness, etc. Darned if you do, Darned if you don't.

Remember that you are the parent (i.e.: THE BOSS). An orthopedic doctor will be able to tell you and him if there is a problem. He can't self-diagnose any more than you can.

quote:

Originally posted by good eye:

quote:

Originally posted by switchitter:
ok. i will take these suggestions, diagnoses, comments on advisement. I will check with him when he gets home from tryouts to see what he is experiencing. He was adament that he would be fine and was ticked that I kept asking questions. It's a very delicate balance with these kids because of coaches and the whole process. Can be very irritating for us as parents because we are the "bad-guys" either way you look at it. We ask too many questions, we are on them all the time to share info and be open and honest about pain/soreness, etc. Darned if you do, Darned if you don't.

Remember that you are the parent (i.e.: THE BOSS). An orthopedic doctor will be able to tell you and him if there is a problem. He can't self-diagnose any more than you can.

no doctor yet, just lot's of ice and ibuprofen. kids continue to practice with sore arms. get iced by trainer after practices and then iced at home. many sore arms every day on team. I guess this is just normal. makes me cringe though. soreness occurs at inside elbow or just above elbow right where that UCL probably is and then into bi and tri. so little time to prepare for season there is no rest... just hardcore practices Mon-Sat.

"many sore arms every day on the team"----that to me is a red flag and a sign to be concerned

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
"many sore arms every day on the team"----that to me is a red flag and a sign to be concerned

they march over to the trainer after practice every day like it's part of the routine. if they moan & complain or go see a doctor, they will see "pine-time" and thus it's taboo.

And that makes it all good---are you kidding me !!!!

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
And that makes it all good---are you kidding me !!!!

what makes it all good? who said anything about "it makes it all good"??????????

We are talking young kids arms and you readily accept the fact that they march to the trainers room everyday with a sore arm

That is what I am talking about---you are accepting that fact

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
We are talking young kids arms and you readily accept the fact that they march to the trainers room everyday with a sore arm

That is what I am talking about---you are accepting that fact

You drink too much bong water.