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"Specialist" v. "Generalist."

kb2610kb2610100+ posts
In reviewing the responses to "Is Switch Hitting of Value?", it occurred to me that a lot of what I was asking had to do with "specialization," and the age-old quandary of whether it's better to be a "jack-of all-trades," or "a master of one." Put in context, to "make the leap" to college ball (i.e., to maximize interest from college coaches and/or increase one's perceived stock/value to a college coach,...is it better to specialize, or remain a "generalist?" I'll use observations about my own son as an example (you already know he switch hits):

-He's among youngest in his sophomore class and has always been the youngest on some very good select teams...he won't turn 16 until late May. Right now, he's a lanky 6'1"/165 and will probably grow AT LEAST 2 more inches (according to doctor).

-He's the closest thing to ambidextrous I've ever PERSONALLY seen...he started off throwing/batting left (I never tried to "correct" him)...he then learned to switch-hit effectively on his own. Playing backyard football, I've seen him roll left and throw left, roll right and throw RIGHT...w/ not much drop-off! He writes and plays golf right-handed. He's a very good s****r player with a strong foot from either side (better from the right), but played a lot at left wing/striker as he could consistently make a good left-footed cross.

-He just started pitching last year while on his freshman team. He never really got the chance on his select teams...he didn't get his size until lately and didn't have the velocity. Right now, with a very relaxed motion, he conistently throws in mid-70's and, when he's really trying to "bring it" in the occasional workout (haven't seen it in a game), will just touch 80. Last summer he played a "year up" (for him, that means giving up almost two years) on a below-average team in a very good league. He got about 40 innings of work, finished 1-2, never failed to go at least 4 innings in any outing (starting or relief), had two complete games as a starter (the second complete game was a loss in which he pitched a 3-hitter) with an overall 4.11 ERA and a 1.45 WHIP (latter stat was among top 6 in a very large/tough league). Recent pitching lessons have seemed to help immensely...a little more velocity and way more movement on his fastball, curve has tightened (these first two were the only pitches he used all last year), can really "pull-the-string" on a change-up, and he's developed a very nasty, late-breaking slider/cutter,...all with much-improved control.

-He's not a "speed-burner"...in fact, his times in the 60 and to first base are well below average. This is something I don't quite understand, he always played select and now plays high-school s****r, was consistently in the top two goal scorers on strong select teams, and showed great top-end speed on the s****r field, even if not outstanding acceleration. Maybe he has what's known as "1st to 3rd speed." Even with faster outfielders on his teams, he's usually played center because he gets good breaks on the balls and takes great "lines" on them. He rarely makes an error with his glove or arm, AND I haven't seen or heard of him making a mental error in over two years (by missing signs, throwing to the wrong base, etc.). Moreover, he's among the best defensive first basemen I've seen, at any age.

-He's one of those kids who does almost everything well...VERY sound fundamentally...,but "quietly": He hits for good, but not outstanding average; has demonstrated good, but not outstanding power; pitches well, but has yet to dominate. Other than defensively, he rarely grabs one's attention and "sticks-out." I would characterize his overall "style-of-play" as very fluid, relaxed, polished and smart.

-He's always been a "finesse/technique"-type of player, who will work at something until it’s technically perfect, and is very cerebral, probably to a fault. Quite a contrast to my 2nd son, who's more of a "blood & guts" type (my younger son, a 13 year old 7th grader, reminds me of what they said about "Bullet" Bob Hayes, "He never ran a race, he BEAT it to death.")

All-in-all, I'm trying to realistically assess and enhance my eldest son's chances to play some college ball. Assuming the correctness of the above description, what's the consensus? Is his best chance as a pitcher, as a position player, or as a position player who could "give you some innings?" In short, he is "well-rounded," but is there any great "value" to that? Should he begin to "specialize?" If so, when and as what?
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S SBK500+ posts
My guess is that he is a typical late bloomer and will end up a high ceiling player as compared to many of his peers.

I'll even venture a guess that if he wears size 11 or under shoes he is going to increase his speed dramatically as he fills out and gains strength in the next couple of years. (Don't ask me for a scientific basis to my theory)

I suspect his arm speed will show big increases over his peers also (not even basing it on my shoe size theory, lol).

From what you've wrote about your son so far, my guess is that he is going to be a fine position player. With a loving and knowledge seeking father like you, I have a real good feeling he'll do just fine in baseball and life.

I am interested if others more knowledgeable such as PG would venture a similar guess based solely on the info thus far.
Last edited by SBK
H HiHardHeat1,000+ posts
Everything you said sounds like a position player at the next level except speed, but I suspect that will come with work.

Being a lefty, he's was going to get some looks. Being a quality player AND a lefty flat guarantees it.

In HS and in showcasing, you don't need to specialize too much. OF/1B/LHP is a nice combination. The colleges might ask to see him play at one position or another during a specific game but it may be depending on their needs (more common for the showcasing). If he picks up his velocity with his growth and gets stronger too, he could become a two-way player in college.

Don't give up on something too early. He might have to specialize in college but why before if he's getting looks and the colleges start talking to him. You have plenty of time to "specialize" his junior year if necessary.
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
Hard to say what will happen with his velocity. The database I put together mostly from HSBBWEB inputs shows a kid his size and age cruising at about 81 or 82 mph. Any kid who actually ends up matching the database would have pretty darn good velocity for a HS pitcher though. There's a very real possibility that he hasn't developed his arm strength to it's potential since he hasn't been a pitcher for long. If so, then his upside is to be determined. Otherwise he projects to end up cruising about 82 or 83 according to the database but you've got to treat it like stock predictions where past performance is no guarantee of future value.
L lafmom5,000+ posts
KB, I'm the parent of an '05 lefty. I have wondered over the past few years your very question.

My son pitched at an early age. Actually had his first varsity pitching appearance in 8th grade. However, our team is loaded with pitchers. My son also is an OF and that's where he's spent most of his time. He doesn't have the typical speed of an outfielder. He has a great glove, bat and arm. He has hardly pitched at all. This is fine with him. He has done what the team has needed him to do.

However, this winter while attending some showcases he decided he would pitch some. He's actually being recruited by two schools as a pitcher only!

I share my son's story because I believe a kid can specialize in one area, but keep options open in another area. Being a lefty, people will always want to know if he can pitch. Your son will need to work on the velocity, but if he has a desire for more options (who doesn't) in college, it would benefit him to do some work. This can be accomplished outside of highschool. The only problem in my opinion when you don't concentrate on pitching is that you won't have the consistency and confidence of a pitcher only. However, if he can work some on pitching skills, he will have an opportunity for pitching later on that some kids won't have. At that point, he would have to be able to step up and prove himself, which would obviously require focusing on pitching.

As I said, I think a team dictates what your son spends most of his time on. I would have him talk to his coach and see what that plan is and go from there.

By the way, my son's top choices are schools where he will be an OF and pitch some. He won't be focusing on pitching only, but like I said he has that option. Many schools will spend a little more time developing or take a little more risk on a lefty.
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
There are uncountable numbers of great two-way high school players but very few in college. Having a son that was a two-way player from the start of high school, all through select summer ball, and the first 2 years of college, I would suggest you attempt to specialize at some point in his career. Two way players in college may make for great headlines in the sports section but at some point in time it will have a negative impact on his overall performance. Your son (or any player) will do something better ... in my opinion that’s what he needs to concentrate on. It may be difficult to specialize at the high school level but I would at least help my son select a “primary” position. Granted, being good at more than one position may open more doors but I’m convinced it’s not necessarily how many doors are opened...but what he does when he steps inside the door.
Fungo
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
My suggestion is to do it all while you can and everything will clear up in time.

There are many examples of excellent players who ended up being better at a different position than most people thought.

Ryan Sweeney grew up as one of the best LHPs in his age group. He was named the top 13 year old in the nation by Baseball America because of his pitching ability. He was drafted in the 2nd round (should have been the 1st round) by the White Sox as a 6'4" outfielder. He's already one of the White Sox top prospects.

Zach Greinke grew up as a talented infielder who could really hit. He was an outstanding all around player whose only weakness was below average running ability. He ended up being drafted in the 1st round by the Royals as a RHP and is now one of the youngest pitchers in the Big Leagues.

There are many stories similiar to the examples above. It's best to let others decide the outcome because you can't know for sure how things will turn out.
kb2610kb2610100+ posts
Interesting commentary, thank you kindly for your feed-back. I have no idea why my use of the term "s****r" (European football, in case it happens again in THIS post) appeared with the asterisks? Is it a dirty word on a baseball web-site?

SBK...The feet won't help him, he wears a size 12. I think they're part of the reason the doctor made his height prediction.

Predictions and projections are part of what make the process interesting. I have noticed that some of his teammates from recent years, who were considered real "studs," haven't progressed as much. They're still good players, mind you, but may have somewhat "maxed out."

His high school has been consistenly ranked in the state's top 5. With rare exceptions (for example, there's a senior this year who's been on varsity since his freshman year) freshmen and sophomores just don't "make" varsity and, if they do, don't get much time. As a general rule, freshman play on the freshman team, sophomores play JV, and juniors/seniors play varsity...I'm not knocking success.

At this stage, I think my eldest son will continue to be a position player who also pitches. If he does well on JV this year, maybe he'll get "called-up" occasionally...its not unheard of for a JV player in this program to be asked to suit-up for a few varsity games and get an inning or couple of at bats.

I'm kind of shocked by the notion of an 81-82 AVERAGE velocity for someone of his size AND AGE. That's kind of discouraging...but, I wonder if it can be correct. Last year, the varsity's best pitcher, then a senior lefty and now a D1 signee/player at a Big 10 school, was reputed to throw in the low 90's. My eldest son and I went to watch him pitch in a home game. We sat right behind two of his varsity teammates who were using a radar gun to clock every one of his pitches and were able to read every pitch off that gun...he never topped 84 in any of the five innings he worked, and he didn't often hit 83. Last spring we vacationed in Naples, FL and went to several games at nearby Florida Gulf Coast University. There's a large picnic table under the stands right next to the announcer's box where we took to sitting (you're at field level right behind the backstop, can read every pitch and it really gets you into the speed of the game). Two pro scouts from different teams asked to sit down with us at the table and we said o.k. (one was from the Twins). After one inning, as my boys and I were on the field side of the table and the scouts were trying to clock pitches, we offered to swap seats with them. This gave the scouts an unobstructed opportunity to use their radar guns and allowed us to read the speed of every pitch they clocked....again, none topped 84 and most fastballs were in the 81-83 range.
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
kb2610,
Be careful, that's an average velocity from the HSBBWEB inputs. There are a lot of very good players in the database and not many weaker ones. A kid with that "average" velocity at his age and size is on his way to being an elite pitcher.

Your son is on the path right now to being a good HS pitcher from a velocity standpoint but would have to make a bit of a jump to get on the elite path from a velocity standpoint. BTW, my son projects to be throwing about the same speed as your son at the same age, however he'll be about 8 months younger than your son was when it is his turn to go out for the freshman team.
kb2610kb2610100+ posts
CADad,

If I offended you with my last post, please accept my apology....that was never my intent. Believe me, I'm not trying to put anyone down, and I'm not knowedgeable enough of the baseball community here, or anywhere else for that matter, to question someone's veracity. Your explanation of what's in that database makes perfect sense to me.

My point was only that I wonder about some of the "stats" I hear about...even in my own "backyard"...and what it takes to "move on." That lefty I mentioned who's now at the Big 10 school was/is a heck of a pitcher, I'm sure, but I didn't see him anywhere near the reputed 90.

I don't profess to be very knowledgeable about baseball. I last played baseball when I was 14...that's when my parents permanently yanked me from that summer sport and put me into tennis, where I had shown larger promise. I suppose it was a good move because, eventually, it paid for my undergraduate education. However, MY efforts to introduce my boys to tennis (a sport where I could have helped them), met with a resounding yawn. I tried to pick two sports for my boys to pursue that wouldn't seasonally conflict with each other...both liked baseball and s****r. My fondest hope was that they would have a chance to make a good high school team in one or both of the sports and, maybe, start their final two years...more than that was pure gravy. In baseball, my involvement is now playing catch; hitting them balls to shag; watching them; and, DRIVING them to practices, lessons and games...none of which makes me an expert (except, possibly, on driving).

That's why your kind input, and that of the other's on this site, is so helpful to me.
H HiHardHeat1,000+ posts
kb2610

Another limitation of a message board is you cannot hear tone or inflection. You can't see a wry smile on someone's face when they are writing their response.

I believe CADad was being encouraging. His warning was more that you shouldn't blindly accept the averages or norms you see here. Players are different. I'd love to go look up the stuff on my youngen and give it to him.

Example. CADad ... If you could check your database and figure out based on your analytical study, a HS freshman that is throwing 78-80 MPH game speed. What are the probabilities of him throwing 90-91 game speed as a senior?

CADad knows the answer (and I hope he'll give it). We all also know that general answers don't frequently apply to individuals and the types of players/parents we get on this site fall a bit outside of the norm.
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
kb2610,
Never any offense taken on my part. Certainly no need to apologize. I just wanted to make sure I was clear about what I was stating and not misleading anyone.

As far as the Div 1 pitcher goes we hear about 90+ HS pitchers on here all the time and most are legit, however you have to remember that the HSBBWEB has parents of kids who are some of the top prospects in the nation posting. Some of those kids won't ever play D1 ball because they'll be drafted and the bonus money will be too much to pass up.

The now D1 lefty would probably be considered to be a kid who could cruise at 83-84 and hit 87 or 88 based on his performance in that game. That's an extremely strong HS pitcher if he knows how to pitch and being a lefty definitely D1 potential. In a showcase environment where he wasn't under quite as much pressure to throw strikes and didn't have to throw that many innings throwing 85 or 86 and possibly hitting 90 seems very possible.

Tried to get my son to take up tennis also as I figured I could get him and myself to do some serious running working cross court/down the line drills but he just wasn't that into it.
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
HHH,
Very possible depending on age and growth between the freshman and senior years, although throwing mid to high 80s game speed would be more likely as a senior. A HS kid throwing high 80s game speed with any type of command and movement is a definite top prospect. A HS kid throwing 90-91 game speed as a senior has a pretty good chance of being a very early pick in the draft, although there's always more than just velocity to be considered. As they get up to and past the mid 80s it gets harder and harder to make the next step up in velocity, the Robert Stocks of the world notwithstanding. (I haven't seen the ESPN mag article but the coach of the high 70s 14yo, see below, who I guess has played with Robert in the past said the article had Robert reaching mid 90s max at 15.)

We've got a 14yo who will be a freshman next year in our Pony league who hits high 70s and I'd guess will be that 78 - 80 mph freshman next year. Based on his parents size he probably won't end up much past mid 80s but you never know. I'd expect him to get a shot as a catcher. We've also got a 13yo who hit mid 70s last year. He's a fairly tall kid and likely to get taller so my guess is he'll end up as a high 80s or 90 mph kind of kid. Unfortunately, neither of them is on my team. Fortunately, facing those type of pitchers at 54' at 13yo will be good preparation for HS for my kid.

I've got a 14yo I expect to be throwing 70 mph game speed by the time our season gets going and two mid 60s 13yo who I expect to be able to hit 70 mph on rare occasions by then. The 14yo ought to do OK but the 13yo are going to struggle a bit this year.
Last edited by CADad

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