Standard Camp Invite or Genuine Interest

If it is from an assistant I would say legit, if it is from the Director of Baseball Operations, probably not worth it.  

baseballhs posted:

If it is from an assistant I would say legit, if it is from the Director of Baseball Operations, probably not worth it.  

Thanks.

He’s a volunteer assistant that was recently hired on. I know volunteer assistants depend on camp money for income but I thought it was interesting that he had been a recruiting coordinator at his last school. I guess this new opportunity was good enough to make the move. That would also put pressure to get more camp revenue, I guess. Anyway, I’m getting off topic.

So, I know my son can ask questions about the camp but I’m trying to determine if we glean more information about any possible intetest to help decide whether to attend since my son is still a 2021. The new rule adds a wrinkle to the “so have you seen me play anywhere” question that is recommended in several camp invite threads.

Even with the new rules some of the same questions are still valid:

1. Is it a school I am interested in? (size, location, has my major, Etc...)
2. Do I have a realistic chance at succeeding academically at that school? Do I have the academic background and grades to be successful.
3. Is it a school I would be interested in if it were not for baseball? 
4. How high is the school on my list? 
5. What is the cost, and can I afford the total cost of traveling to the camp. (Bang for your buck)
6. Athletically how do I match up with the players they actively recruit. Is most of the team Are over 6 ft, and mash, and I project out to be a 5'11" grinder with speed? You must be brutally honest when determining if you can play at a school.

Same apply no matter when recruiting starts. However, student Athletes need to project earlier where they will be as a senior. 

I would ask questions. I’m probably cynical due to our experience which may not be everyone’s.  Last summer my son got a DM from a school (director of baseball operations) about a camp and it was a school he could have attended I think and it was logistically a good fit. We rearranged things to make it work and when we got there, they had no idea he was there and didn’t talk to him at all. Son had sent aDM back that he would attend. The camp ended, we came home and sent an email with stats and video and the HC called our club coach within an hour saying they were really interested and was my son interested in them.  They still had no idea that he had been there for 5 hours that day (and did well with no one watching).  I would try to call the coach, see if he answers, or dm back asking questions and including key stats to see if you get a real response or a generic reply.  That said, if it’s a school he really likes, it can’t hurt to attend but I would email the RC ahead of time.

baseballhs posted:

I would ask questions. I’m probably cynical due to our experience which may not be everyone’s.  Last summer my son got a DMfrom a school about a camp and it was a school he could have attended I think and it was logistically a good fit. We rearranged things to make it work and when we got there, they had no idea he was there and didn’t talk to him at all. Son had sent aDM back that he would attend. The camp ended, we came home and sent an email with stats and video and the HC called our club coach within an hour saying they were really interested and was my so interested in them.  They still had no idea that he had been there for 5 hours that day (and did well with no one watching).  I would try to call the coach, see if he answers, or dm back asking questions and including key stats to see if you get a real response or a generic reply.  That said, if it’s a school he really likes, it can’t hurt to attend but I would email the RC ahead of time.

Thanks!

Does your son know the coach? Have they spoken before prior to this invite or did the DM arrive out of the blue? If so I would say it's a generic invitation.

My son dealt with many of these with polite responses stating he is interested would like to attend but travel may be a problem and see what kid of response he got. Sometimes they disappeared, sometimes it initiates a legitimate dialog with a coach.

Best case it would get the coaches attention prior to the camp so they know to look for his like baseballhs  mentioned.

BishopLeftiesDad posted:

Even with the new rules some of the same questions are still valid:

1. Is it a school I am interested in? (size, location, has my major, Etc...)
2. Do I have a realistic chance at succeeding academically at that school? Do I have the academic background and grades to be successful.
3. Is it a school I would be interested in if it were not for baseball? 
4. How high is the school on my list? 
5. What is the cost, and can I afford the total cost of traveling to the camp. (Bang for your buck)
6. Athletically how do I match up with the players they actively recruit. Is most of the team Are over 6 ft, and mash, and I project out to be a 5'11" grinder with speed? You must be brutally honest when determining if you can play at a school.

Same apply no matter when recruiting starts. However, student Athletes need to project earlier where they will be as a senior. 

I think this is a good list to vet camp invites.  One point I would add is this - has the coach seen your son play and has there been some interest expressed?  I'd guess the answer is no.  I would not waste time on a school camp unless there is specific interest in your son, or it is the 11th hour (for a '21 it is not).  Otherwise you are more than likely wasting time and money - JMO.

Smitty28 posted:

I would not waste time on a school camp unless there is specific interest in your son, or it is the 11th hour (for a '21 it is not).  Otherwise you are more than likely wasting time and money - JMO.

I would say the one exception to this is if the camp hosts multiple schools/coaches, AND your player has communicated with coaches beforehand AND they are looking for him. For example BC and Northeastern each host annual winter camps and have multiple coaches from local schools in attendance. Cost was not too crazy, and my son was able to get good dialogs going with several coaches this way.

Boston College Spring Training Prospect Clinic http://collegebaseballcamps.com/bceagles/

CmassRHPDad posted:

Smitty28 posted:

I would not waste time on a school camp unless there is specific interest in your son, or it is the 11th hour (for a '21 it is not).  Otherwise you are more than likely wasting time and money - JMO.

I would say the one exception to this is if the camp hosts multiple schools/coaches, AND your player has communicated with coaches beforehand AND they are looking for him. For example BC and Northeastern each host annual winter camps and have multiple coaches from local schools in attendance. Cost was not too crazy, and my son was able to get good dialogs going with several coaches this way.

Boston College Spring Training Prospect Clinic http://collegebaseballcamps.com/bceagles/

 

I think there are a lot of exceptions to this, but I know most people here do not like camps.  If you are not on a power team (and everyone will say it is a mistake not to be), then it is a good way to be seen by target schools.  My son did not want to leave his friends.  They don't go to his school and were his best friends who he had played with since 8 years old.  Our route for recruiting included showcases and camps.  My son went to two SEC camps with no prior dialogue and had weekly conversations after camps.  If your kid isn't on a high profile team, he isn't going to be seen by some of the top programs especially those not in your region.  Camps can work.  In hindsight, I would say, contact them with video and stats before you go, but don't rule them out completely if your son hasn't gotten a personal invite.  I also know in hindsight that the Director of baseball operations isn't usually a personal invite

baseballhs posted:

CmassRHPDad posted:

Smitty28 posted:

I would not waste time on a school camp unless there is specific interest in your son, or it is the 11th hour (for a '21 it is not).  Otherwise you are more than likely wasting time and money - JMO.

I would say the one exception to this is if the camp hosts multiple schools/coaches, AND your player has communicated with coaches beforehand AND they are looking for him. For example BC and Northeastern each host annual winter camps and have multiple coaches from local schools in attendance. Cost was not too crazy, and my son was able to get good dialogs going with several coaches this way.

Boston College Spring Training Prospect Clinic http://collegebaseballcamps.com/bceagles/

 

I think there are a lot of exceptions to this, but I know most people here do not like camps.  If you are not on a power team (and everyone will say it is a mistake not to be), then it is a good way to be seen by target schools.  My son did not want to leave his friends.  They don't go to his school and were his best friends who he had played with since 8 years old.  Our route for recruiting included showcases and camps.  My son went to two SEC camps with no prior dialogue and had weekly conversations after camps.  If your kid isn't on a high profile team, he isn't going to be seen by some of the top programs especially those not in your region.  Camps can work.  In hindsight, I would say, contact them with video and stats before you go, but don't rule them out completely if your son hasn't gotten a personal invite.  I also know in hindsight that the Director of baseball operations isn't usually a personal invite

 

I cant speak for everyone, but I don't think folks universally dismiss camps.  They can be a useful tool.  IMO most folks get that impression off this board, but the usual take on camps is they can be good, but don't "cold call" the camps and expect to have the phone ringing off the hook by the time you leave.  Most camps are used to make money for the ACs.  Secondarily they are used to vet players.  If a player has had previous contact with the school, the school has interest in seeing the player perform and knows the student will be at the camp, then the camp can be a useful recruiting tool.  

If you just expect to show up at a camp without previous contact and interest from the school and be offered right there on the spot, know its not going to happen.

baseballhs posted:

 If you are not on a power team (and everyone will say it is a mistake not to be)

I'm not sure abt this after having been through it. My son played for a power team his 16U summer as a rising Junior. Yes he attended lots of big events and got to play against some great competition, but he was a Pitcher-Only on a roster of abt 28 kids and he was buried in the bullpen. He saw few innings and the games he pitched did not get much visibility.

Once we found him a pitching coach who he really connected with and he started seeing gains in his development, my son felt a loyalty to this guy and he chose to play for his program. He had also had enough connections and reached out many times on my boy's behalf. This in my experience ended up being more valuable than going the power team route.

CmassRHPDad posted:

baseballhs posted:

 If you are not on a power team (and everyone will say it is a mistake not to be)

I'm not sure abt this after having been through it. My son played for a power team his 16U summer as a rising Junior. Yes he attended lots of big events and got to play against some great competition, but he was a Pitcher-Only on a roster of abt 28 kids and he was buried in the bullpen. He saw few innings and the games he pitched did not get much visibility.

Once we found him a pitching coach who he really connected with and he started seeing gains in his development, my son felt a loyalty to this guy and he chose to play for his program. He had also had enough connections and reached out many times on my boy's behalf. This in my experience ended up being more valuable than going the power team route.

We did fine too and our 16U team may not have even won 50% of our games.  If you make your recruiting plan around it, you can end up as good or better I think.  I spoke to one dad  last summer whose son (16U) didn't even play for a summer team. He worked out during the week and did invitational events and showcases and he had a lot of P5 offers. He committed last month to a strong program.

Everyone's path is different! We see that repeated here over and over!

My son only did camps, didn't go to any big showcase or play for a power team, yet he received multiple D1 offers.  In hindsight, maybe he would have had even more offers if we did, but he was offered to his first choice and I don't think he would have chosen differently.

I agree everyone's path is different, therefore, maybe do a mix of all.  I also agree not to go to camps blind.  Communicate beforehand so coaches know who you are and are watching you.

Camps were useful for my 2017 position player.  He did not end up at any of the schools where he attended, however. The 1st camp attended had 3 different levels of coaching present. He did contact the host school 1st, as he did with all others. He asked specific questions about the camp and gave specific information about himself. After each camp he attended, the schools did show various levels of interest. The most useful part of attending camps for him was that it helped him to determine which level of baseball (D1,2,3)  he would fit. The 1st camp he attended, a former CWS winner, was invaluable in determining where he fit in. The HC spoke with him, one on one about this.  And that’s when we realized where he fit in. We will always be thankful for that experience. 

We did not randomly respond to mass email camp invites tho. He only went to camps with a specific purpose, not because he received an email invite to the camp. 

baseballhs posted:

I would ask questions. I’m probably cynical due to our experience which may not be everyone’s.  Last summer my son got a DM from a school (director of baseball operations) about a camp and it was a school he could have attended I think and it was logistically a good fit. We rearranged things to make it work and when we got there, they had no idea he was there and didn’t talk to him at all. Son had sent aDM back that he would attend. The camp ended, we came home and sent an email with stats and video and the HC called our club coach within an hour saying they were really interested and was my son interested in them.  They still had no idea that he had been there for 5 hours that day (and did well with no one watching).  I would try to call the coach, see if he answers, or dm back asking questions and including key stats to see if you get a real response or a generic reply.  That said, if it’s a school he really likes, it can’t hurt to attend but I would email the RC ahead of time.

I could have written this exact same email. Wonder if it's the same "coach"? The one in my son's case has been with 4 different schools since and he emailed him from each one, despite ignoring him when he saw him in person!

Utimately it was a camp that got my son his offer, but it was a very specific circumstance where the coach had seen him at the PBR Futures games the week before and called him on the way home saying "you're still coming to the camp, right?"

What folks need to understand is that these camps/showcases etc are businesses first and foremost. They are there to generate revenue whether the money goes to a private enterprise (like PG), or a college baseball program. They want to fill the camp, period. They will do it any way they can. They do not care to what degree the player/family would have to go to get there. They will send emails like the one below my son got this week, he hasn't even played in a PG event this year, only been to 1 PG showcase 2 years ago. He's on a mailing list...so are your kids. BishopleftiesDad nailed it above.

GaryMe posted:

What folks need to understand is that these camps/showcases etc are businesses first and foremost. They are there to generate revenue whether the money goes to a private enterprise (like PG), or a college baseball program. They want to fill the camp, period. They will do it any way they can. They do not care to what degree the player/family would have to go to get there. They will send emails like the one below my son got this week, he hasn't even played in a PG event this year, only been to 1 PG showcase 2 years ago. He's on a mailing list...so are your kids. BishopleftiesDad nailed it above.

 

Let’s not hijack the thread and turn it into another beat up on PG/Jerry Ford thread, please.