quote:
"I am glad you have sons who play minor leage ball - I would LOVE to do what they are doing but I am not good enough. But that doesn't mean I have it easy because I don't play minor league baseball. Get off your high horse and realize everyone has to work hard to achieve something."


Before I pressed "post now" last night, I deleted several thoughts and figured I would sleep on Coach's posts and statements.
When I logged on this morning, I wanted to make sure I was on the HSBBW where we talk about baseball. Then I checked to make sure I started this thread in the "Going Pro" section.
Finally, I reread my first post that started this thread. All I tried to express were some feelings about the business side of the minor leagues captured as I watched a friend and former teammate(traded to that night's opposition as he walked into the stadium) of my son drive off with his new wife in their 19.. something pickup at 11pm at night.
Not sure where I created the perception that I was on any "high horse." Not sure how I created the "perception" that those not playing minor league baseball have it "easy." Certainly not sure where I created any perception that school teachers/coaches or any other job doesn't involve hard work, if you want to accomplish something.
In fact, I already posted that baseball is a game and this thread was never intended to compare/contrast with those risking everything in the line of military service.
Bottom line, Coach, I don't think I posted anything to create your response. I will continue to post about life in the minor leagues and will do so knowing that is all I am describing. If you want to take it and compare it with the daily journey all of us take through life and work, so be it. I cannot control perceptions that my posts are not intended to address.
Last edited by infielddad
quote:
Bottom line, Coach, I don't think I posted anything to create your response. I will continue to post about life in the minor leagues and will do so knowing that is all I am describing. If you want to take it and compare it with the daily journey all of us take through life and work, so be it. I cannot control perceptions that my posts are not intended to address.


I re-read some of the repsonses in this thread and believe some of the members have taken some of the discussion out of context and/or read too much into the point of the original topic. NOWHERE did infielddad say because of these issues, he was advising HIS son to retire from the game. He is merely raising the issues for discussion. I see it as a public service. Knowledge is power and can only help our sons deal with difficult circumstances SHOULD they be presented with those issues. Lets not shoot the messenger but keep these discussions on BASEBALL as they should be.
quote:
Then I checked to make sure I started this thread in the "Going Pro" section.


Well I found this in the golden thread forum. If I knew it was in the Going Pro forum I probably would have reacted differently. I will apologize for that one.

When I quoted your post for my first response I didn't mean it as a criticism to you. In fact when I went back to the posts I "went off on" you didn't post them. It was njbb and 20dad - and maybe I mistook what they put. I sincerely apologize to you infielddad because I was not directing anything at you.

Here is what upset and offended me.

njbb

quote:
I have a daughter and son in law who are teachers that also coach and a son in the minors ... the 2 jobs are nothing alike.
I don't know if any one has mentioned that players don't get paid during spring training, instructional league or winter work outs.. that takes up about 3 1/2 mos. so their only paid for 5 1/2 mos.
Players have the choice and they are doing what theywant to do.. But its not a glamorous life style.
The posters who have sons in the minors are only trying to give the other members a realistic idea what life is like in the minors.


20dad

quote:


Not sure if 20dad is going to show up but its a picture of hands clapping and a sign that says agree 100%.

I agree that playing in the minors is tough (although I have no first hand experience) and it's a business. I was just trying to make a small comment that it's hard work to be successful. I was intending to basically back up what you said infielddad. The high horse was for njbb and 20dad.

I apologize for the mixup between you and I infielddad.
I was not saying my daughter,son inlaw or you for that matter are not hard workers... I said the 2 jobs are nothing alike. Where my daughter and son inlaw put in their hours of work then return each night to live and eat in the comfort of their home. My son who also puts in his hours of work, lives with a stanger (roommate)in a motel room 9 months out of the year. eat only in diners, fast food.. (hey it sounds like college student) After games traveling 6 to 7 hours through the night on a bus to arrive about 5am to sleep in the lobby till they let you check in or go lift. this is done week after week. One day you could be released or be moved thousands of miles to another team (which in his case involved being dropped off at a Chicago bus station in the middle of the night to catch a bus) if he did have family they are not the responsiblity of the team and its up to them to stay or find their own way to the next team . These are some of the reasons (in my MHO) you can not compare the 2 jobs,
Yes its great to play baseball ..... But you have to consider the life style..
Last edited by njbb
coach, thanks for the post and clarification. Everything is fine on my end.
BTW, njbb is one of my favorites because her posts are so straight forward and do reflect the real world concerns of a loving mother with a very, very talented son, who signed out of high school. She has never posted from a "high horse."
While njbb does not need me to stick up for her, I think her last post tells you so much about her feelings for her son and the life he leads off the field, from the perspective that only a mother can experience.
I am not sure where this thread took a turn, but I have something to say.
Infielddad, Fungo, FBM, njbb, OPP I have learned alot from you regarding life and the business of minor league ball.
Please continue to post your thoughts regarding the above. It is very important for parents and players who are making decisions to understand both sides to this aspect of the game. While it is every boys dream to wake up everyday and play baseball for a living, it is also very trying and difficult at times. It becomes your JOB.
My understanding is that, unless you have been through it, or have a son who is or has, you really don't understand.

JMO
Last edited by TPM
The posters who have sons in the minors are only trying to give the other members a realistic idea what life is like in the minors.
----------------------------------------------------
coach 2709
my reply was to njbb 's post, as i feel it is why we are all here.it wasn't meant as a slam to anyone. your a teacher and i applaud you for your work. but your doing something you love,for small money.someday you'll make more. same thing with minor league ball players exept they have no pension and are really the lowest paid as they only are paid when they work. but the do it because they love it and maybe someday they will make more. you have to understand that? my favorite closing remark from another poster:

( if you can read this thank a teacher,if your reading this in english,thank a soldier)
quote:
Infielddad, Fungo, FBM, njbb, OPP I have learned alot from you regarding life and the business of minor league ball.
Please continue to post your thoughts regarding the above. It is very important for parents and players who are making decisions to understand both sides to this aspect of the game. While it is every boys dream to wake up everyday and play baseball for a living, it is also very trying and difficult at times. It becomes your JOB.
My understanding is that, unless you have been through it, or have a son who is or has, you really don't understand


Forgive me, TPM, but I was about to say that..............

I'm still watching, even if I didn't post..................

Thanks Infielddad, Fungo, FBM, njbb, and OPP.

I've observed a lot by watching ya'll.
I still can't find my previous post in this thread. Confused

Waaaaay back when I first found hsbaseballweb, "Going Pro" was not a topic that received much thread time, the main info that I was fortunate enough to gain through this site, was the college-as-next-level sort...pro ball seemed like a distant possiblity.

Actually seeing my son by-pass college to play pro ball was the LAST thing I was expecting. After being drafted #595, my son shocked his family by choosing to by-pass his full-ride at a JC. That was the day that I had to tell myself that my son(at 18 years of age) would be making his own decisions from that point on.

It was his decision to succeed or fail, his decision to adjust to his ever-changing environments and his decision to do what it took to make himself a valuable asset within his organization... of course all of this process took way more than just "deciding" to make it happen.

Every step of the way he has worked harder than before, every step of the way he has had more distractions to avoid, every step of the way he has had to grow into a more mature young man than many of his contemporaries may have chosen.

I guess my son was fortunate... he came from a very working class family with a raised-on-the farm work ethic. He was also fortunate to experience "winning" through hard work at a very young age while others around him experienced winning because of who's son they were or what their family name was....

Lots of folks have given great advice in this thread, but there is no reason for any person to feel that any of the advice is universal or "ultimate".... different strokes for different folks!

Play ball and those that combine their talents best with a work ethic to maximize those talents will experience the level of success they deserve, and ultimately each individual player will judge themself... that is what matters-.... and after playing baseball ends, they will get on with the rest of their life....Just like a real human being!

Hope I am still around in years to come to read threads about baseball-playing sons that are posts written by the folks that we have been writing posts about! Wink
OPP, your awesome my man.
And you raised a strong young man.

No matter what road a player take's, I think they all want to take it to that next level.
And there are many next level's??

Work Hard and Believe!!
And there's NO Limit to what you can achieve.

EH
Well I apologize to everyone because clearly I am in the wrong and over reacted. I did not see this thread in the going pro forum but in the golden thread. Maybe this would have changed my outlook.

My original post was not about comparing the two but obviously I did a terrible job of getting that across. I just wanted to state (in a humorous way) that it's hard work to make it in baseball regardless of what you do. No I cannot compare riding the bus and staying in hotels and all that to teaching and I wasn't trying to. I just wanted to state that it's hard work regardless.

I was too sensitive to what the other two people posted and went to far.

Basically this comes down to me not being clear and overreacting.

I apologize to everyone. My bad.
Coach2709,
Im sorry if I offended you, it was not my intent.
Sounds like your players are lucky to have such a hard working coach
If anyone wanted to read a book about life in the pros theres a book call "Inside Pitch".
Last edited by njbb
Coach2057,

I actually think you brought up some good points. We often concentrate on the bad rather than the good side of being a professional baseball player.

There are some very different things between playing professional baseball and teaching/coaching at a high school.

While playing in the minor leagues can be hard, with long hours and not much money… It is still something that most young players want to do.

They still call it “playing” rather than “I work in the minor leagues”! I’ve never heard a young player say… He “works” for a major league club.

Probably the most notable difference is what happens if you become one of the best in your field.

As one of the best high school coaches or teachers what is your peak earning potential? How long does it take to reach that level?

As a professional baseball player what is your peak earning potential?
How long does it take to reach that level?

I do believe “most” minor league players are underpaid. But the majority of anything that could be called “work” is for individual reasons. The minor league player does not “work” for anyone other than himself. You could say he is somewhat self employed, despite having a contract with one organization.

Playing minor league ball is not easy. The travel and pay are tough for some players, but they don’t have to take care of the field or deal with parents.

If we think the players have it tough, we should feel even more sorry for many of the professional scouts out there. They are paid in the same range as teachers and if you think players travel a lot, think about the scouts this time of the year. Crosscheckers and scouting directors can have a problem knowing where they are from one day to the next. There are area scouts who cover 5-6 states and they do their own driving (no bus driver).

Guess what I’m getting at… I don’t ever feel sorry for any young man who is playing minor league baseball. In fact, I’m very happy for them! After all, they’re doing what millions of young players would do for nothing… They’re “playing” baseball at the professional level. What “job” could be better for a baseball player? How many jobs have the potential earning power of a professional baseball player?

There is always two ways to look at things.
I really hope the parents of professional ball players will continue to post about what life is like for their sons.

I have probably learned more from reading posts here about the “REAL” life of a player in the minor leagues than by any other means.

I have to admit I took some of the things I learned here and passed them on to my son.

It hasn’t stopped his “Dream” but at least when or if the time comes to make that jump, he will at least be doing so with his eyes wide open.

For all the information that you parents have passed on I must say, “thank you.”
njbb I am not offended but frustrated I did not do a good enough job getting it across.

PGStaff you pretty much summed up the point I was trying to get across.
It was posted on here about the work that is involved in hs coaching and got me thinking about the minor league coaches and managers, they too are living the same type of life as the players,traveling ,living away from home in motels,fast food. Only after the game they have to make reports, talk to the higher ups. Plus baby sit the players....
PG, as usual, brings a very good focus. Those comments, along with the always terrific insight from CD, lead me to this post.
My son would probably be horrified that I started this thread. He is living a dream!! Never complains about the 13 hour bus rides, pay, living situation, off season conditioning, etc. He cherishes nearly every single minute.
In 2005, his manager was almost apologetic when he didn't get a day off in almost 40 games. My son responded that there was no need to worry, he would play every day, every game if they would let him. Jason often jokes how some of these situations are an upgrade from baseball at the DIII level.
His off season conditioning program and rehab over this winter are a reflection of pure passion. If you can imagine walking on a treadmill on a 4% incline at 3.5 mph, doing 15 reps for 30 seconds...walking on your hands, you have an example of his efforts to be ready by 3/5/07. You do not extend yourself physically to the point of tears unless you are singularly motivated and love what you are doing.
I can assure everyone that my son does not want anyone to feel sorry for him. He, much better than I, understood that when his ex-teammate and wife drove off at 11pm, they did so in pursuit of a dream, also.
This post/thread is solely some reflections from the view of a parent about the off field and the business side. I should have made that distinction from the beginning.
njbb ...
quote:
Plus baby sit the players

And in some cases, as I am sure your son has reported about some of his teammates, this may be one of the toughest parts of the coach's job. When one or two players start acting like prima donnas ... well, I guess it isn't any different than high school ball or college ball in that respect.

I really admire the minor league coaches, and it is educational to sit on the side lines at spring training and listen up on what the coaches have to say to each other about what is happening with the players. Two years ago, the low A coaches for the Dbacks were talking about the work ethic and the hustle (or lack thereof) that some of the players were manifesting. It was interesting I think for the very reasons mentioned above ... here these coaches are living the same nomad life, living away from family, etc, and they are watching players with a ton of potential practicing in a lackadasical manner. It must be annoying, to say the least.
Last edited by FutureBack.Mom
I also have to state that my son doesn't feel sorry for himself. why would he?

I had no idea what minor league life was like. I heard things about the life style but I didn't really understand. So I thought my posts may help to inform others
This thread has been most enjoyable. njbb - I have particularly enjoyed your participation over these past several days. infielddad - classic post and it is nice when we can all acknowledge when misunderstandings have occurred and that there is nothing more to it than that. PG - nice post Smile

Coach2709 - please keep posting your ideas Smile
quote:
Originally posted by njbb:

I had no idea what minor league life was like. I heard things about the life style but I didn't really understand. So I thought my posts may help to inform others


They have, thanks all!
What does this have to do with life in the minors?
If you want to promote a player I think you should post it under the "Please let us know about your player" topic in the general forum
Last edited by njbb
I agree that it can be rough for some minor league players with families and other expenses, but it is alot better now than it was years ago. My Great Uncle played minor league ball and then a short with the pirates; however he didn't get paid enough to support his family so he went back to West Virginia and worked in a coal mine. Now that's rough.
if i could play single-A for a living i would, no matter what my salary was. i'd find a way to make a living.
quote:
Originally posted by infielddad:
quote:
There are many MUCH worse jobs out there

PopTime, with all due respect, I wonder how much you know about life in the minor leagues. Quite clearly my comments were not directed toward those players who are set from the time they sign their contract and receive the draft bonus. It focused, as Dad04 confirmed, on the other 90% of those in minor leauge baseball. Playing professional baseball, even in the minors, is the dream of so many. What you, at some point, find out is what you thought of as a game is really a business. The business is both physically and mentally demanding as well mentally and emotionally exhausting. Minor league players are not protected the collective bargainning agreement. Again, with all due respect, confusing the "riches" of those at the major league level with the process in the minor leagues that "might" get a player to that level isn't reality, but it might be a bit "silly."
I wonder which jobs you think are MUCH worse. Through A ball, the minor league players get paid either $1,150 or $1,350 per month. They play 29 days per month. With bus travel, which is extensive, they average a 12 hour work day. That ends up around $4.50 per hour for their work. From that, they pay room/board etc to live, they pay the locker room attendant, fines, etc. What is a job that, just from a pay perspective, is MUCH worse than that? Better stop typing, this is making me upset. Wink


I could think a ton of worse jobs. Custodian, garbage man, fry cook at mcdonalds, etc.

I know they don't make much at all, and work very hard, but there are other people that work much harder than they do, and make the same or less money.

I do think that pro ballplayers get paid way to much money. I don't care how good they are, there is no way A-rod deserved to get 250 million (he didn't get all of it, but that was the contract) form the rangers, when there are doctors who work more hours than they do, and don't getpaid anywhere near that, yet they are SAVING PEOPLES LIVES. All the ballplayers do is provide entertainment, and nothing more. They give money to charities, but they are still merely entertainers, and thats all it amounts too,and they make too much money to be entertainers.
quote:
I could think a ton of worse jobs. Custodian, garbage man, fry cook at mcdonalds, etc.


Adam, I am not sure I could have been more clear in my post. My comments were focused on the minor leagues and the pay in the minor leagues. Each job you have included is protected by the federal and state minimum wage laws. A fry cook at McDonald's, earning the minimum wage, gets paid more per hour than a minor league player at the lower levels.
Since you have such a problem with the amounts major leaguers are paid, do you have similar type feelings for the owners of those clubs who made money in private industry and then pay those salaries as opposed to donating the money to charity?
You are indeed correct that MLB is an entertainment business. It attracts billions of dollars in revenues because people love to watch the game being played or the beer that is being served, or other such things. With those billions in revenue that MLB is receiving, why do the players earn too much money, when it is their talent that is responsible for the popularity of the game? Are you proposing the money should only go to the owners and to MLB/Bud.
Last edited by infielddad
[/QUOTE]I do think that pro ballplayers get paid way to much money. I don't care how good they are, there is no way A-rod deserved to get 250 million (he didn't get all of it, but that was the contract) form the rangers, when there are doctors who work more hours than they do, and don't getpaid anywhere near that, yet they are SAVING PEOPLES LIVES. All the ballplayers do is provide entertainment, and nothing more. They give money to charities, but they are still merely entertainers, and thats all it amounts too,and they make too much money to be entertainers.[/QUOTE]


Funny that only ballplayers are over paid. Nobody whines about the actors and musicians making too much. I think ballplayers work quite a bit harder than these other entertainers and most do not make near the same money.

IMO you are worth what the owners will pay you.
Institutional Investor's Alpha magazine lists the top Hedge Fund Earners for 2006 and the top 25 all earned above 240 million.
Top earner James Simons of Renaissance Technologies earned 1.7 BILLION.
Kenneth Griffin and Edward Lampart each earned 1 Billion plus.

J. Bradford Delay an economist at CAL questioned what the hell they are doing that is worth that kind of money. He said it is ****ed mysterious.

The earnings of most occupations rarely equates to reasonable compensation at either end of the spectrum.
I know some kids out of college and even older who work all day at low paying jobs, then go practice or play baseball in a town league most every day including weekends from April until September.

They pay their own travel expenses, pay for food, and pay for everything else that is required. Some have little if any insurance and have problems making ends meet. They practice and play for zero! Worse than zero, it actually costs them money to play for nothing but the love for the game. Might not make sense to all of us, but that is loving the game.

This town league is full of players who would trade places with any minor league player in a heart beat.

The "real" players aren't playing baseball for the money. Yet some of them make it and end up being very wealthy. Others become wealthy the day they sign a contract. For most, wealth is not the right reason to be playing baseball.

I know others who practice and play golf every day of the week. Some who even travel all over the place to play golf. Why do people do this? Then there is the serious softball player or tennis player. How many golfers, softball players or tennis players get paid to play?

There are kids who practice and play baseball everyday in the summer. Sometimes they pay for this privilage. They travel all over the country doing this, it's actually their life for the summer. Often their parents pay a lot of money to do this. It's very tiring and hard, but many of the kids really love it and can't wait for the next summer to do it again. They are among the "real" players.

There are people who spend their entire summer coaching youth baseball for no financial gain. Sometimes people do things just because they love doing it.

Back to the town leagues, they charge at the gate and sell consessions and print programs just like a small time minor league club. But the players play for nothing and they have almost no chance of making the big time dollars in baseball. I know it's not the same, but there are some similarities.

Life time minor leaguers might have had a better life doing something else, but they just didn't want anything else. I for one can respect that and understand it.

Finally... I too believe minor league players are under paid. I wish they were paid enough to live more comfortably. There is an obnvious inequity from the minor league 1st rounder and the 35th rounder. They have the same job, but one has much more security. But we have to remember that the MLB club puts a value on a player before he signs on. If that value is a thousand dollars, they don't think of you as having a lot of value. It's up to the player if that is something he wants to do. And to prove the MLB club wrong as to his value.

Sometimes that is exactly what happens!
PG

You're absolutely right.

A long time scout once told me, "The club pays out the right amount of money every year. Sometimes we just give it to the wrong guys"
Originally Posted by infielddad:
quote:
There are many MUCH worse jobs out there

PopTime, with all due respect, I wonder how much you know about life in the minor leagues. Quite clearly my comments were not directed toward those players who are set from the time they sign their contract and receive the draft bonus. It focused, as Dad04 confirmed, on the other 90% of those in minor leauge baseball. Playing professional baseball, even in the minors, is the dream of so many. What you, at some point, find out is what you thought of as a game is really a business. The business is both physically and mentally demanding as well mentally and emotionally exhausting. Minor league players are not protected the collective bargainning agreement. Again, with all due respect, confusing the "riches" of those at the major league level with the process in the minor leagues that "might" get a player to that level isn't reality, but it might be a bit "silly."
I wonder which jobs you think are MUCH worse. Through A ball, the minor league players get paid either $1,150 or $1,350 per month. They play 29 days per month. With bus travel, which is extensive, they average a 12 hour work day. That ends up around $4.50 per hour for their work. From that, they pay room/board etc to live, they pay the locker room attendant, fines, etc. What is a job that, just from a pay perspective, is MUCH worse than that? Better stop typing, this is making me upset. Wink

Ya infield dad the minors are tough but if you love the game of baseball as much as I do you would play for a penny.It is a matter of how much you love the game of baseball

It is amazing when I see these "revived" threads from so many years ago.  Those of us who have been here so long recognize some of the contributors (especially bbscout and futureback.mom) and realize how short life is.

 

As PG said, this thread dates back to 2007 but it is nonetheless so powerful.  For me, it puts into context everything Bum, Jr. is going through (now) as a minor leaguer.  In 2007, Bum, Jr. was an up-and-comer 17 y.o. with hopes of just getting to college.

 

Now he's jumped 4 pro levels in less than a year. Where will it all end?  Who knows.  But he's still in love with his high school sweetheart who has remained faithful to him while he chases a dream that may never come to fruition. 

 

Good for him.  When I look back on my life it was never the money that mattered.  All of my fondest memories were of chasing my dreams.  I'm older now, but the day I stop dreaming is the day life becomes meaningless.

 

 

 

 

It's fascinating to hear from those of you who were here back then ... weighing in now on these long-ago threads. Wow. If I could just find out who Bum Jr. is, I would bookmark him on MILB and follow him .. and root for his success. 

 

LOVE that he's still with his HS sweetheart. Good on you all around, Dad.

Honestly, this game of baseball is the most interesting ride.  I am going to let my son finish his senior season of college and then tell his story.  It is educating. And relative.  

Wow, glad to see this thread was bumped. Lots of pretty cool posts from some old timers.

 

And, to answer the question, "Still want to play professional baseball???????"

 

Yes.

 

 

 

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