Summer team or lessons

Well Dooer that is a great question. If I could do both for my kid I would. I would look for a quality team at an affordable price and a small amount of lessons during the summer, since he'll play very often. You can pick up the instructional pace in the fall and that will certanly help come spring. Or maybe hold off the lessons until fall, but be sure if your kid is a pitcher that he has no major mechanical flaws that could lead to injury. There is one fact we don't talk about much here, but only a parent and a kid know what its like to go through and injury. There won't be any scouts, instructors or coaches at the hospital.

Dooer, I just read Coach Ric's post and he obviously has a lot of knowledge and I cannot disagree with anything he says.

It's possible that my son's journey was a unique one - I don't know. He had the luxury of playing varsity at a very young age which basically meant he was exposed to "playing up" for many years which I think in hindsight was a great opportunity to learn and mature as a player. He always did summer teams, but not the high priced ones. I don't think there's any substitute for being on the field - I do think it's important to have a quality coach out there too. Like I said earlier, we had a strict budget and acted accordingly.

For him (and for us) playing baseball was never about a scholarship or any kind of notoriety. It was about his passion and playing. That may sound naive or ignorant, but it's where we were. I also feel very confident to say that he wouldn't change that if he had to go back and give up any opportunities to play vs receiving individual lessons.

I'm not saying that "our" way is the correct choice - just sharing our experience.

lafmom, I always respect your posts because they are full of good sense and experience. I did mention words like genrally and mostly, because there are always exceptions to every situation. I am sure your son got quality instruction from some fine coaches on the way but he is probably an exceptional young man and learned alot on his own.

Thank you Coach Ric. All any of us parents have are "our" experiences. We can share if something worked or didn't work for us, but it's really impossible to compare our situations with others because they're NEVER exactly the same. You'll never hear me say that my way is the only way because I'm very well aware that just ain't so!!

If both at one time are not possible, perhaps select ball in the summer and lessons in the fall.

The select ball will do two things that cannot be accomplished through lessons: exposure (if the select club is a good one); and playing against tough competition (again, if the select club is a good one). If these two things can't be accomplished through any area team you can put him on, then that makes the decision tougher.

How about this. You get a manual labor job during the day Monday thru Friday. Mowing grass working construction etc etc. In the afternoons you lift , run , hit , core work etc etc. On the weekends you play some travel ball. You find a program that has quality coaching and you play on the weekends.

Lessons are great if your struggling in a certain aspect of the game or if you want to get some quality instruction on hitting or pitching mechanics. One night a week or two nights a week for one hour each is about anyone can do isnt it?

You need some feedback on the instruction and the best way to get that is in a game situation. You need to work on getting bigger faster and stronger right. You need to develop a solid work ethic. Do it all. If you can not afford to travel play in a local league. Play Legion baseball etc etc.

Playing all the time is not the answer. Lessons all the time is not the answer. And being a full time baseball player with no work is not the answer unless your in the league.

Sometimes the best way to become a better baseball player has nothing to do with a ball and a bat. Sometimes its the work you put in that has nothing to do with the actual game itself. JMHO

The hardest thing for young players to realize is that going to practice sometimes means not hitting throwing or catching. It means pushing yourself physically to improve your ability to hit catch run and throw. If you do not do that you will fall behind the ones who do. They will be faster. They will be much stronger. They will be much bigger. They will have a mental toughness that you will not be able to match. GO TO WORK. Its not all instruction and games.

I will post on a new thread the information that I said I would last year. I listed the incoming freshmans ht wt bench press squat and 60 times. After one year of going to work I will now post last years stats and their current stats. I think you will be very impressed. Also I will post the pitchers velocity ratings.

I come down on the side of playing with a quality summer team over taking lessons in the summer. Now that I've said that, quality lessons have their place also. What I recommend players and their parents consider is playing summer ball with the best team you can get your son onto, where he will receive meaningful playing time against quality competition. If your budget allows, I'd also have your son participate in a quality showcase, such as Perfect Game offers.

Rather than playing through the summer and fall, I recommend players take some time off from playing in the fall and focus on rest and recuperating from a long, hard summer. The fall is a time for improving strength, endurance, flexibility and skills. It is an excellent time to work with a private coach to strengthen your game. It is also a time to recharge yourself mentally so that you're raring to go come spring time. The fall can be an excellent time to pursue other interests that keep you stimulated and round out a well balanced life.

Nowadays, the competition for college opportunities has caused some parents to drive their kids to play year-round in the belief that if they miss out on a tournament or showcase they'll be left behind by the boys who attended these events. While that may sometimes be accurate, it is way overblown, in my opinion. It's fine to play in a few of these in the fall, but too many people go overboard at this time of year.

If you budget your time and money wisely, you can play competitively, showcase and receive private lessons all within the same year. It does take some good planning, but isn't that hard to do. Heck, there's even time for some high school baseball in there too!

Or - if you are lucky - you could find a program that does both.

Year round training and development - and competitive travel ball all year (except during the high school season.)

Keep in mind that many travel teams have a coaching staff that teaches as they play-- we always strive to have coaches who do both--thus the player gets the best of both worlds and it is all part of the playing cost

If you look hard enough you can find these programs because there are many of them around

TR - That was part of my point that I didn't make really clear in my post here or in the other thread. Many players are very fortunate to have quality coaching that can be head's above what individual lessons they could get in their area. I actually think lessons are a great thing for players but I also think there's more than one way to accomplish the goal of learning/improving.

lafmom

I agree with you--I like the one on one "on the job" instruction--I thinks it sinks in better

Right up there with TR,06 and lafmom.
Trying to find a balance between a good summer team and one with knowledgeable coaches might be difficult, but I do feel for the prices charged for summer programs, instruction should be somewhat expected, to help players define weaknesses and work on improvement.
When considering instruction, define goals on what needs to be accomplished. Major tweaking or fine tuning. Once that's determined, it's good to make a plan on when to implement what has been taught. I have seen many get instruction making major changes which do not happen over night, and need games to pratice on. Sometimes it works right away, sometimes a player struggles, hurting themselves with not getting results when most needed. I also see the value of the very best showcases helping players define their weaknesses. I am learning showcases are not always about getting the rating but how or why one is rated and what needs to be improved.
Another alternative during the summer might be to attend quality camps. I am not just talking Big schools, but ones that actually give you your monies worth on evaluating you and making suggestions, which can be followed up through lessons. That should be the purpose of the camp, when the advertise or send you brochures expecting you to attend. Not every camp is out there to just look for future recruits.
n this day and age, it's more about where you would be getting the most for your money spent. And learning if an actual instructor is out to really help you or take your checks. JMO.

...gotta be a balance.

Take hitting... Instruction is important for proper balance, form, settup, etc. Get it where you can from someone who knows hitting. All that soft-toss, front-toss and BP is important in a controlled situation to attain proper muscle memory, eye/hand, etc. However, hitting off of someone trying to help you succeed is a far cry from hitting off someone who desparately wants you to fail. Ya gotta hit off live pitching, in game situations, under pressure, to learn to be a hitter.

Again, you need both. ...quality instruction and the opportunity to apply it.

I agree with TR, but I didn't think we'd have to elaborate that getting on a quality summer team should include getting coaches who can teach. If your summer team doesn't have coaches who can teach the game, you're not on a good summer team.

It isn't just about winning as many games as possible. There's more to it than that, much more; even though learning how to consistently win is important.

My youngest is in a program that - IMO - we are very fortunate to have available to us.

They train year round - reducing the training during high school season only.

They play - as a team - year round - probably have about 20 tournaments in all - including many high profile tournaments such as PG's World Underclass Championships and Jupiter.

Although the desire is to win - development is the first and foremost objective of the program.

I am very glad that we have been lucky enough to move to an area that has this available.

If you can find something like this - I think you will like it.

Good luck to you.

I am going to say some controversial things again. First off, TR, keep doing what your doing man, it is rare. Most travel coaches do not put in the time for real training. Some have told me tht their kds are getting good training from their travel team coaches, then I watch their practice and I am not convinced. Then I watch an 18U tournament here in central florida over Christmas break and I see some strange coaching and some very talented kids with some bad habits and worse mechanics. Its a shame that I have to notice these things but all of us coaches have a quiet critical eye from time to time. I don't say anything to the parents or coaches, thats not my duty. How can you be sure that your kid has been instructed well before he go's to a showcase. You probably can't. But while at one, get some advice from scouts, if they'll give it, and then upon seeing the evaluation, ask what can be improved upon and How to improve upon it. The repeated playing on youth travel teams with good competition, while performing bad habits that become muscle memory, and convince the player that he's doing well, can be irreversible. I cannot count how many times a parent asked me what I thought of a kids approach, then when I deliver it honestly, I would always get a "well he's hitting good the way he is, or he's winnng lots of games on the hill". It will come out sooner or later. The younger the training the better, its easier to break down old habits and build in good ones. As lafmom and TR have stated, there can be quality coaching at all levels, but my experience has shown me that the overall majority are not. To those who insist on making a clear and positive difference for young players, I am in your corner. Just MHO.

Coach Ric

If possible and area is available at the events we attend we like to be at the field better than 2 HRs before game time--why? to work on things with each player as is needed

We also have a load of "mind meetings" where we talk and discuss games situations

Our attitude is this-- you are paying to be here so "the Player" belongs to us---we want them leaving at the end of the event a better player than they arrives and it has nothing to do with winning or losing

We are very heavy on the "mental aspect" of the game

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Keep in mind that many travel teams have a coaching staff that teaches as they play-- we always strive to have coaches who do both--thus the player gets the best of both worlds and it is all part of the playing cost

If you look hard enough you can find these programs because there are many of them around

It is my opinion that there are only 2 purposes for a summer travel program...

1. Player development: Find a team that teaches early and often. Learn the proper throwing, catching, and hitting mechanics early and have the opportunity to practice them a lot. I wouldn't look for the team that plays the most games and boasts the best record. I'd look for the team that teaches, practices, and then plays the best competition around (competing is a big part of player development).

2. Player exposure: As they get older, exposure becomes another primary purpose for travel (and there is plenty of information about exposure on this site).

If you find a program that supplies both, that's great.

Mike F

Mike, if you are finding travel teams that are instructing and training, it is rare, be happy that you have and stick with them.

.

Doer...

If I am looking for development....

If I had to make TOUGH choices, I am always looking for the biggest bang for the buck. IMO you can waste a great deal of money on either...

After decades of working with thousands of athletes I am a big fan of repetition.

Find the right travel team. A Good travel team should offer some excellent instruction and LOTS and LOTS of reptition. I am going to swim against the stream on this.....I have alwys been leary of much travel because in many cases, not all, you spend a thousand for a few at bats in another State. Watch the fur fly here....

Lessons DO NOT have to be expensive. A good instructor can give you the basics in a lesson or two and then it is up to the player and his work ethic to impliment that idea. On the other hand...In my experience, and I teach athletic mechanics and coach teams for a full time living, families waste way too much money paying me to be a ball machine not an instructor. Get my knowledge, impliment it yourself then come back for a tune up. You can save a bundle. In fact enough to play on a good travel team...

IMO you can waste a great deal on money on both...and many people do....

OK....If I'm looking for exposure....Will still argue this...Showcases are still the best bang for the buck.....80 coaches and scouts at one place?

IMO the real wild card in all this is the travel coaches and their connections to college programs. I have seen players get baseball $ as much on being on a specific travel team and getting the endoresment of the "right" travel coach as on talent...

Good Luck!

Now watch the fur fly.....

But you can't play 52 weeks out of the year BBScout. If you can afford to play one season, then you certainly can afford a few lessons. And, I beg to differ, you may well need lessons to become a better player. Most players are begging for more knowledge and some do not get it. Now, if the kid is talented and does it right 90% of the time, he may get where he wants without instruction, but its usually the result of very good coaching instead. Some kids and parents really just like to say they're on Elite teams so that we think they're great players. I still think a combination of both will benefit the player, and As I stated before, If they can afford bats at 250 and gloves at 150 and cleats at 125, they can afford a few $35 per hr lessons. As a parent, always be sure the instructor has a proven track record.

Coachric, can you point me to the guy here in NorCal that charges $35/hr for instructions.

Observer44, what is your specialty. Do you charge anywhere near $35/hr for strangers?

My son played during the summer, took the fall off to hit the weights and run. He is now playing for his HS in a Sun. winter league. They are still lifting and running during the week. Throw in a little BP and pen work as well.

BBscout, will you by chance be at the CA underclass showcase next weekend in San Bernadino?

.

Doer...

I get $60 per hour minimum...that being said I believe that any teacher who really cares about Athletic development and teaching as much as the allmighty dollar takes on a few projects for reduced rates or for Free.

If it were me and $ were really an object, and I had a kid with the real fire and the passion, and I found an instuctor that I really liked, I would level with them. See what could be worked out. Look at the player, feel the fire, see the talent....The kind of teacher I want for my kids have a passion for developing this kind of talent not just making a buck.

IMO few TRUE teachers with a passion for athletic development can turn down a player like that. IT is flat out MAGIC to teach those kind of kids. The others, the burned out ones lacking fire and passion even those with talent, sadly are simply dollars in the pocket and not becasue I don't want them to get better it is just that they won't give me the raw material I need to reach their potential.

Any good teacher will tell you that it is a 100/100/300 game. You give me 100%, I give you 100% and together we magically come with another 100%. The teamwork in such situation is better than the sum of either of the parts.

I've got a young player right now with top end talent I am working with for nearly nothing. She has world class talent/magic, but is not yet emotionally ready to run with it, but her heart is in the right place and she is very clare on why she is there and "gets it". I am setting the foundations that will allow her to do she when she is ready. If she so chooses. We talk about that day all the time.

Hope this helps....Hope to see your son play this year...send me a schedule...

If you had to choose there is only one choice and that is a great summer team with coaches who teach you proper skills. My son played at 9yo played AAA city team and the league put on clinics Local college coaches taught them how to field grounders and fly balls. The total cost was less than $400 for the year. As he got older (15) he played on as many as 4 teams including HS. 2 of the teams (Elite & 18U Distric allstar) had excellent training. It started to get a lot more expensive HS $125 AAA city $450. Elite $1200 and 18U D Allstar $500. However the instruction was excellent and you can really see when a player has the balance,foot work and in general the polish that comes from great instruction and playing top teams. At 18-19 he cut back to just the Elite team and worked part time.
When I look back the Elite team was the best experience. Goog coaching and discipline. The AAA team at that age had guys who had to work and did not show for practices. They went out drinking and showed up hung over. He also dropped hi HS team and concentrated on the Elite team. I was shocked but he said it was not competetive enough and he would rather earn some money for school. They had 30 guys trying out and he said it was their turn. I gave him no argument over his decision. The Elite teams ranged from $3200 to $7000 a year. The more expensive ones like Ontario Blue Jays ,Team Ontario Inc had great coaching and exposure. These teams charge more because they go to PG events,Bamba and Area Codes. We chose the cheapest one and elected to do our own promotion. The coaching was still very good and some great competition. I agree that spending big bucks for a few swings of the bat or innings on the mound seems foolish but the confidence from playing top North American teams is really what it is about.
Definitly get on a great summer team with good instructional coaching.

bbscout also recommends lessons in front to the TV

I agree with Coach May. College and pro baseball are a "manual labor jobs" and many kids aren't adequately prepared for the physical work load and "blue collar" aspect of baseball.

Because baseball is a manual labor job and most of the folks involved are blue collar,I instruct for $35 per hour. Many coaches n the area run 45-60. Due to a great passion for teaching and learning, I have taught a few for free. BBscout, we all can point to our own experiences. I never had lessons as a kid nor did the hundreds of former minor leaguers I played with. Lessons were unheard of 30 years ago. Maybe its a sign of the times, but we learned more from sandlot games and I personally had some very good teacher/coaches. Today everybody wants the best for their kid. I had not heard of many travel teams 30 years ago either and I averaged 140 games a year for many years. There is a market for both today, and those that can should shoot for both. When the question was raised that if you could only do one, what should it be, I have trouble answeing that because its about budget for many. And if they can spend big money on equipment and travel teams, they can afford good instruction. JMHO.

Yeah I can read. Its says if he could only do one. And if he chooses the cost of summer taems and we know hes buying fancy equipment, then at some pont he can afford lessons. Get it now.

Never compare me with that group, please. As you scout JC and 4 year guys, you see lots of talent. How many kds do you scout that almost made it or didn't quite get over the hump to make a college roster. I see plenty of them and I really believe sir, that with quality instruction they could have gotten over the hump. Not in all cases but in many. Ask some of these college kids or parents how many of them had both travel and instruction. I am doing nothing here but offerng sound opinions, and as I have read many of your posts, I haven't read much advice from you.

Coachric,

Sounds like you havent spent alot of time reading then.

I guess not ITS. Everyone is breaking down some of the things I've written, but they have misquoted me constantly.

Thanks BBscout, Glad we have you here. Now, what did I not answer, maybe I'm stupid or something. I did mention that I thought both were beneficial. And for your info, I have been teaching hitting for 30 years, of course I really don't have to prove myself to anyone here. I just enjoy talking baseball here. Now you ask me what I'm supposed to answer and I will try.

Incidentally, you've seen hundreds of major league hitters that haven't had a lesson. Thats a pretty broad statement. Did they all tell you what their work regimen was as youngsters?

Ok, in da summa, I wood pick playin', and then I wood do learnin' in the fall. See my past posts and you'll see that I chose that earlier. I promise to never act like I know anything again while your reading my posts, sorry if upset you.

I got it! To me it’s a no brainer. A similar question would be: Would you rather have ten million dollars or a job??

The answer is Summer team! Playing the game is the ultimate goal of baseball!!

I’m not surprise that people get it backwards. Why I even know some people that go to church just so they can dress up and look nice instead of dressing up so they can go to church.
Fungo

quote:

Why I even know some people that go to church just so they can dress up and look nice instead of dressing up so they can go to church.

Perfect

Coachric,

My son got his first bat in 3 yrs. for Xmas. It cost $89 on ebay. He uses a handme down glove. He played summerball and took the fall off. No lessons. Economic situation has not been very good, except for the appraisal on our house.

He has had 2 - half hour lessons of batting instruction,6 years ago. He has never had a paid pitching lesson. He did have a coach in pony that was a former AAA pitcher and D1 headcoach. He worked with my son quite a bit, for a dinner here and there.

He is going to his first showcase next weekend. I have no idea what he will be doing next summer. I'm kind of sure that last years team will not exist next summer.

As we learn here, we ALL should never assume anything, each of our situations is different. I only wrote from my experiences. Godd luck to you and your son Dooer.