Surviving the Coach Merry-Go-Round

quote:

Originally posted by Swampboy:
His plan is to show up and outwork everyone just the same as he would have if there hadn't been a change.

That should be the plan regardless, if he keeps that attitude, he will have nothing to worry about.

FYI, there are plenty of players that get recruited by the same coach that is there when they arrive, but suddenly that coach you thought you knew was a totally different guy, I would imagine that coaches have the same viewpoint towards the player.

You really don't know anyone until you begin to spend most of your days and weekends with them.

Swamp:
That's a mighty fine plan. Best wishes for him in his new venture that just got newer!

Swampboy, did you see the "Future of UMaryland Baseball" thread a few months ago?

It's pretty long, but some of it deals with 'new coach/old players' situation.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:

FYI, there are plenty of players that get recruited by the same coach that is there when they arrive, but suddenly that coach you thought you knew was a totally different guy, I would imagine that coaches have the same viewpoint towards the player.

You really don't know anyone until you begin to spend most of your days and weekends with them.

TPM,
That is a great insight. In that sense EVERY player plays for a different coach than the one who recruited him. Thanks.

AntzDad,
Thanks. I'll check it out.

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quote:

Originally posted by TPM:

quote:

Originally posted by Swampboy:
His plan is to show up and outwork everyone just the same as he would have if there hadn't been a change.

That should be the plan regardless, if he keeps that attitude, he will have nothing to worry about.

....You really don't know anyone until you begin to spend most of your days and weekends with them.

Exactly right...

Recent case study...

DI Coach replaced in June by local nationally respected and successful JC Coach who is hired to bring in top local talent and his JC kids...Immediately sends notices to many of the out of area recruits and returnees letting them know that they needn't bother showing up..It was so late that many still did...and most of the the JC kids, and local kids who were being counted on to fill the gaps kept to their prior, out of area comittments. Coach is left with pretty much previous years roster, the previous years reserves and a few new recruits and walk on's. As a result, like it or not, an important playing part of the roster was those unwanted who remained. Even the kids who were shown the door were needed. Opportunity by necessity and expedience, if not by choice.

44
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Great topic Swampboy! I hope others contribute and still more read.

Background: With my older son, out of the 7 schools that he was most interested in and recruited by, only 2 of them did (or would) have the same main recruiting coach at that school by the time he did or would have arrived. That is, the guy who identified him and handled most of the contact changed in 5 out of 7 cases. His pitching coach also changed while he was in college. No real effect to be honest other than different style of coach. Still had to prove himself in Fall practice and again week after week during the season.

Younger son (entering freshman this Fall)...the main position (pitching) coach who recruited him left for another school before he even signed his NLI last Fall.

Head coaches changing is probably a different experience, but TPM is absolutely right in that I think nearly everyone I have known will tell you that the head (or assistant) coach that recruited you has a different approach/personality than what the player/parent saw in the recruiting process. Once you're there, its (mostly) all business. Every player has to prove himself with and against the rest of the team when Fall practices begin...regardless of who recruited them.

quote:

Originally posted by Swampboy:

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:

FYI, there are plenty of players that get recruited by the same coach that is there when they arrive, but suddenly that coach you thought you knew was a totally different guy, I would imagine that coaches have the same viewpoint towards the player.

You really don't know anyone until you begin to spend most of your days and weekends with them.

TPM,
That is a great insight. In that sense EVERY player plays for a different coach than the one who recruited him. Thanks.

AntzDad,
Thanks. I'll check it out.

In many ways this result/reality depends upon the player's past experience. With a HS player I am sure this is true more often then it isn't as they aren'[t really sure what they are looking for in a program or coach to begin with.

Based on my sons 4-2-4 experiecne if you aren't 100% sure about the coach you aren't ready to make your choice, and if a new unknown coach comes in, I'd want to spend some time talking to him and kids who played for him in the past. I know alot of posters say pick a school based upon whether or not you'd go there if you couldn't play baseball, however there are a significant number of kids to whom playing is an important part of their college experience so they really should focus on getting a good read on the coach before attending, especially to see how committed he might be to players he didn't recruit.

Almost every player we know including my son has gone through it in some form or another and they've all made different decisions. Some have panned out and some haven't. It is a very individual decision and the only advice I'd give is to do as much research as you can on the situation before making a decision. It doesn't mean you'll make the "right" decision if there is such a thing but doing your best is a good thing.

I think that the impact on potential recruits depends in large measure whether the new coach is promoted from within the school's existing staff or comes in from the outside.

In the former case, you were recruited as a result of the system which is, in large part, still in place. Personalities may change, coaching styles will differ, but since recruiting is done by consensus (generally) you are still wanted -- all the recruit needs to do is work hard, deliver results and be a great teammate.

In the latter case, be ready for the "flush." In many cases I know of, the road for recruits (as well as returning players) was far more difficult with a wholesale systemic change -- afterall who better to place the blame on for past shortfalls than the present players and recuiting decisions which are bringing in the next class?

Unless the new coach reaches out and makes you feel secure, I'd be exploring options at a different school.

During the recruiting process the pitching coach of the boys preferred school assured him that "he's going nowhere" a week later he left. Now after his first year in college at a different school it appears that the pitching coach of 2 years is moving on.

Needless to say that the boys finger is firmly on the eject button.

In our case, before my son committed we asked about the rumors we had heard that the coach might leave, and he frankly acknowledged the possibility. He said it comes with the territory at that level of baseball. If you're successful, other opportunities come along; if you're not successful, you can get fired.

That conversation led us to put additional weight on institutional factors that would remain constant through a coaching change (facilities, academic support, program infrastructure and staff, quality of competition).

Swampboy - I like your approach

Great thread and difficult topic. It is difficult because you think you have the power to choose your college & baseball program, and then something happens that is totally out of your control. As parents, I think it is job #1 to review (in detail) with your son why he wants to go to a particular college & baseball program and discuss the potential positives & negatives from an adult's perspective too. Nothing is 100% sure at any school, but you can minimize (your son's) risk by putting weight on factors that are most important to you.

I'm bumping this thread because it's worth commenting on how the incoming coach handled the situation.

The coach consistently emphasized all fall that none of the players had ever earned a starting spot for him before, so every competition was wide open, and he wanted to see who would step up and seize the opportunity. Every day, he wants to know who will show him the toughness and competitiveness he's looking for.

With the pitchers, this message has been especially consistent. The coach scrupulously balanced everyone's scrimmage innings all fall. He has not named weekend starters or his closer or anything else. Nothing is settled. How you perform in January will determine your role in February. My son says this approach has produced a lot of positive energy in practices and workouts.

The fall roster started somewhere in the low 40's and got down to 34 mostly through voluntary attrition. Some freshmen clearly had not signed on for the intense conditioning and left quickly. A couple players, including a returning starter, were shown the door for attitude, effort, or responsibility issues. Son says the coach absolutely means business when he demands buy-in.

No one made the team from the open tryout for walk-ons.

My son's "show up and outwork everyone" strategy seems to have been well chosen. At his end-of-fall interview, the coaches noted his work ethic and leadership in getting the other freshmen to buy in to the conditioning program. Then they handed him his day-by-day conditioning guide for Christmas break and told him to keep pushing himself.

The number of NLI signings announced after the early signing period exceeds the number of players likely to be lost to graduation or the pro draft. The only guarantee is that there will be no let up in the competitive pressure.

Son is totally loving it.

Nice update Swampboy. I always thought this was a very important thread...thought it would take off more than it did.

It might be one that re-introduces itself every few months or so as other experience some of the same stuff.

Maybe it will take off now?

Swampboy,

Thank you for bumping this thread, and for the update.

As a parent of a player with a long ways to go before this becomes a problem with any kind of immediacy at all, I am relishing the opportunity to see how various HSBBWebbers have handled this difficult situation. I know if(/when?) my son ever crosses this bridge, we'll be a lot more prepared than we would be if I hadn't discovered this place - and we'll know better what questions to ask during recruiting. I'll be paying attention until 2015 (and beyond!), that's for sure!

Thanks, all....