Once it is out there, it's out there for good I believe!
Originally Posted by GoldenGraham34:
Anyone know how to delete a post? I'm trying to delete this one, but I'm not sure how.
Why do you want to delete it? There is some decent info there for you and others.
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Originally Posted by Low Finish:
Turn the barrel.
You say this a lot. Please describe what it means.
Originally Posted by Low Finish:
At 1:50 he says the elbows stay the same distance apart during the swing, and that is proof the hands turn the bat head. He might want to get out a ruler. The elbows get 6-8 inches closer together (it's half the distance from upright elbow to the hip). I've measured this in motion software with MLB hitters, and at home.
Why is that important? It points out the importance of the elbow/shoulder in turning the bat head, and it means you shouldn't use hitting aid gadgets that are meant to keep the same elbow spacing throughout the swing.
I think people have gone off the deep end with hitting and the tiny thought process of the swing. it is athletic and fluid...some things the body needs to just do. in this application top hand torque is no different then pull the knob - really both are attempting to do the same things. everyone agrees you need lag...that is what is really happening in this particular conversation.
Originally Posted by old_school:
I think people have gone off the deep end with hitting and the tiny thought process of the swing. it is athletic and fluid...some things the body needs to just do. in this application top hand torque is no different then pull the knob - really both are attempting to do the same things. everyone agrees you need lag...that is what is really happening in this particular conversation.
Pull the knob and top hand torque are not the same thing.
Originally Posted by old_school:
I think people have gone off the deep end with hitting and the tiny thought process of the swing. it is athletic and fluid...some things the body needs to just do. in this application top hand torque is no different then pull the knob - really both are attempting to do the same things. everyone agrees you need lag...that is what is really happening in this particular conversation.
I agree completely. Knob to the ball, hands to the ball, swing down, turn the barrel it's all the same teach. Each generation has to have new terms or they can't sell new systems lol. Problem is too many people think they know a swing and although they may understand the final product they don't understand the process. So hitting guy says knob to the ball, non hitting guy hears doesn't understand start knob to the ball and teaches knob all the way to the ball. Next generation swing down at the ball. Non understanding guy hears but doesn't understand it's a starting cue and teaches swing down thru the ball. I can wait to see what crazy things come out of turn the barrel hahaha.
Originally Posted by GoldenGraham34:
How do I delete this post?
I don't know why but I can't get the Golden Graham cereal jingle out of my head. 
The interesting thing about this and an example of the problems created by analyzing a swing without knowing the individual can be summed up in one word - Language.
When my son began his hitting instruction many years ago, a significant time was spent talking and communicating with words that describe actions that the instructor wanted to convey. Dynamic Hands means a certain thing that the instructor and the student understand. Power line has a distinct meaning when they converse, Staying Stacked means something. Drifting, Torso Turn. These are all descriptive words and a language that only the student and the instructor come to understand over time.
With this language that is mutually understood, the instructor and student can actually communicate a lot about an at bat over the phone from long distances and accomplish effective analysis of a perceived issue.
This to me is why it is so important to find an instructor you trust and has a proven track record, and then stay with him and develop that relationship that involves a very specific understanding of what certain words mean in the context of a swing that has been developed over a period of time. Adjustments to the swing will occur through the years, but the language will remain the same and allow a level of communication that can be invaluable as the years pass by.
Originally Posted by Scotty83:
Originally Posted by old_school:
I think people have gone off the deep end with hitting and the tiny thought process of the swing. it is athletic and fluid...some things the body needs to just do. in this application top hand torque is no different then pull the knob - really both are attempting to do the same things. everyone agrees you need lag...that is what is really happening in this particular conversation.
I agree completely. Knob to the ball, hands to the ball, swing down, turn the barrel it's all the same teach. Each generation has to have new terms or they can't sell new systems lol. Problem is too many people think they know a swing and although they may understand the final product they don't understand the process. So hitting guy says knob to the ball, non hitting guy hears doesn't understand start knob to the ball and teaches knob all the way to the ball. Next generation swing down at the ball. Non understanding guy hears but doesn't understand it's a starting cue and teaches swing down thru the ball. I can wait to see what crazy things come out of turn the barrel hahaha.
It all looks and sounds the same to some because they do not know what to look for. Don't know if you fall into this category but many do.
Originally Posted by standballdad:
Originally Posted by Scotty83:
Originally Posted by old_school:
I think people have gone off the deep end with hitting and the tiny thought process of the swing. it is athletic and fluid...some things the body needs to just do. in this application top hand torque is no different then pull the knob - really both are attempting to do the same things. everyone agrees you need lag...that is what is really happening in this particular conversation.
I agree completely. Knob to the ball, hands to the ball, swing down, turn the barrel it's all the same teach. Each generation has to have new terms or they can't sell new systems lol. Problem is too many people think they know a swing and although they may understand the final product they don't understand the process. So hitting guy says knob to the ball, non hitting guy hears doesn't understand start knob to the ball and teaches knob all the way to the ball. Next generation swing down at the ball. Non understanding guy hears but doesn't understand it's a starting cue and teaches swing down thru the ball. I can wait to see what crazy things come out of turn the barrel hahaha.
It all looks and sounds the same to some because they do not know what to look for. Don't know if you fall into this category but many do.
The only difference should be which ever one of the cues gets through to the student. Different students respond to different things. IMO over analysis and incorrect teaching has led those cues to mean different things. I have no problem using turn the barrel as a cue. If that's what gets through to the student but I also use knob to the ball, throw the spear in the ground, pull the chain, flick the bugger on the ump, or anything I can come up with to get the kids light bulb to come on. Heck when one of my players or students is batting and I yell out hey you need to slap it. I can garutee no one at that field know what I'm talking about except me and my student.
A good instructor teaching knob to the ball is teaching turn the barel to position the bat for knob to the ball. It's just the terms he or she is comfortable teaching. But someone reads if you hear a coach saying knob to the ball run he doesn't understand hitting. Then that person watches pro player saying knob to the ball so now that person gets online telling everyone he can don't listen to pro player they don't know what there teaching. Now kid is learning hitting from someone who couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat instead of someone who can actually do the skill he's teaching.
I would bet if the two of us could enter each other's brains we would be describing the exact same thing. If we were in a cage having this conversation and could show each other what we mean. We could quickly see we're on the same page. The problems IMO comes from those standing out side the cage listening to our conversation.
Originally Posted by Scotty83:
teaching turn the barrel to position the bat for knob to the ball.
This is not an outcome of turning the barrel correctly. You turn the barrel to get the barrel on plane early and deep, it provides early barrel direction and early barrel speed.
Originally Posted by standballdad:
Originally Posted by Scotty83:
teaching turn the barrel to position the bat for knob to the ball.
This is not an outcome of turning the barrel correctly. You turn the barrel to get the barrel on plane early and deep, it provides early barrel direction and early barrel speed.
you almost had me....but i am not going to get into an arguement on line over terminology and mircro fraction in time...not gonna happen - but you were sooooo close.
Originally Posted by floridafan:
The interesting thing about this and an example of the problems created by analyzing a swing without knowing the individual can be summed up in one word - Language.
When my son began his hitting instruction many years ago, a significant time was spent talking and communicating with words that describe actions that the instructor wanted to convey. Dynamic Hands means a certain thing that the instructor and the student understand. Power line has a distinct meaning when they converse, Staying Stacked means something. Drifting, Torso Turn. These are all descriptive words and a language that only the student and the instructor come to understand over time.
With this language that is mutually understood, the instructor and student can actually communicate a lot about an at bat over the phone from long distances and accomplish effective analysis of a perceived issue.
This to me is why it is so important to find an instructor you trust and has a proven track record, and then stay with him and develop that relationship that involves a very specific understanding of what certain words mean in the context of a swing that has been developed over a period of time. Adjustments to the swing will occur through the years, but the language will remain the same and allow a level of communication that can be invaluable as the years pass by.
this i feel is very well said.
Originally Posted by old_school:
Originally Posted by standballdad:
Originally Posted by Scotty83:
teaching turn the barrel to position the bat for knob to the ball.
This is not an outcome of turning the barrel correctly. You turn the barrel to get the barrel on plane early and deep, it provides early barrel direction and early barrel speed.
you almost had me....but i am not going to get into an arguement on line over terminology and mircro fraction in time...not gonna happen - but you were sooooo close.
Haha LOL wasn't trying to drag you in. It's all good.
I have never seen a kid that needed to be told to take the knob to the ball. Most need to be told not to take the knob to the ball.
Originally Posted by SultanofSwat:
I have never seen a kid that needed to be told to take the knob to the ball. I have seen hundreds that needed to be told not to take the knob to the ball.
again you want to argue over terminology. hell your avitar of the babe shows him taking the knob to the ball...just like every good hitter that has ever lived, along with every good golfer who ever lived and i would be willing to bet every good cricket player as well...top hand torque, knob, linear, rotational...marketing bullshit to create need.
i have lived it, paid for it, understand them both....and will not waste my life in an arguement where we agree on about 90% of the items.
