Swing Eval

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Originally posted by John YaYa:

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Originally posted by powertoallfields:
The effort to get them there is. The body and like I said, the top hand end up moving them to the inside near contact, but the momentum is moving straight, not circular to the direction of the hit.

Sorry, but this is simply wrong.

I have never seen an overhead view of a major leaguer taking a linear hand path.

The thing you aren't seeing is that the bottom hand only moves maybe 6" from go to contact on a pitch down the middle.

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Originally posted by BlueDog:

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So in this picture you can see he is just about to bring his hands through but hasn't finished his stride. So that is where the lack of separation is.

Okay, to me from this point in his swing, his hands are stacked and the bat is tilted behind him. The first thing I would try, would be to make his bat straight up and down in his stance so that all he would have to do is tilt the head of the bat toward the Pitcher in front of his head to about even with his head. From that point, he would just need to reach with his front foot toward the Pitcher as he loaded his hands and turning his bellybutton to the direction of the hit. As his front toe lands he should still be loading his hands. As the front heel plants, the back hip should fire and his hands should start to go forward. These changes can be made without changing much of what he is already doing right, IMO.

It's really no different than pitching. The Pitcher needs to get to front heel plant as the ball gets to the high c o c k e d position. The back hip fires to reach cusp.

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Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
John Ya Ya, Had to laugh at the screen name. That particular movie is a cult favorite of mine!

It was between Ya Ya and Bigboote.

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Originally posted by powertoallfields:
For the hand path to be circular, the back elbow would have to straighten away from the body at go and then pull back in to contact. It just doesn't happen that way.

No, that hands would just have to turn with the back shoulder.

...which is what they do.

Also, the hand path isn't perfectly circular. However, it's much more circular than linear.

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Originally posted by powertoallfields:

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Originally posted by LClifton:

Thanks, LClifton! That video is pretty clear.

PTAF,

Please provide an OVERHEAD view of a major leaguer with a linear hand path.

You keep making your case based on the worst possible angle for judging the handpath.

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Originally posted by BlueDog:
Circular or linear hand path is semantics, IMO...

I believe a case could be made for both...It's like the rotational vs. linear swing argument...You can look at a video and see whichever one you wanna see....

The handpath is much more circular than linear, especially on a good swing.

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Originally posted by powertoallfields:
The thing you aren't seeing is that the bottom hand only moves maybe 6" from go to contact on a pitch down the middle.

Please provide video that demonstrates this.

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Originally posted by John YaYa:

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Originally posted by powertoallfields:
The thing you aren't seeing is that the bottom hand only moves maybe 6" from go to contact on a pitch down the middle.

Please provide video that demonstrates this.

How about the videos of Ortiz, Wright, and Howard on page 3 of this thread. Rotation moves them most of the way forward before they ever start to the ball. There is a frame by frame picture shot of Pujols on this site somewhere that shows exactly what I'm talking about. I believe it was from Chris O'Leary's site. You can clearly see that the hands don't move (in relation to the body) until the bellybutton is pointing forward.

quote:

Originally posted by John YaYa:

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Originally posted by powertoallfields:
For the hand path to be circular, the back elbow would have to straighten away from the body at go and then pull back in to contact. It just doesn't happen that way.

No, that hands would just have to turn with the back shoulder.

...which is what they do.

Also, the hand path isn't perfectly circular. However, it's much more circular than linear.

I have been saying all along...AT GO...they move in a straight line to just before contact. This video shows it clearly.

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Originally posted by John YaYa:

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Originally posted by BlueDog:
Circular or linear hand path is semantics, IMO...

I believe a case could be made for both...It's like the rotational vs. linear swing argument...You can look at a video and see whichever one you wanna see....

The handpath is much more circular than linear, especially on a good swing.

As Bluedog has stated before, momentum is forward and upward, not around. If you spin, you are losing momentum THROUGH the ball.

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Originally posted by BlueDog:

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As his front toe lands he should still be loading his hands...........These changes can be made without changing much of what he is already doing right, IMO.

Power, to the contrary, his whole sequence needs to change....

He is nowhere near being in synch with a workable swing pattern....

Weight shift needs to begin right after the back hip loading, or as some say, negative move...This young man has not shifted any weight and the ball is on him....

He will at least be closer. Changes may still need to be made, but you have to start somewhere. In your example of the Pitcher you were working with you said it took you 2 hours to figure out where his sync problem was, IMO, the closer you can get it, the easier it will be to fix.

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Weight shift needs to begin right after the back hip loading, or as some say, the negative move...This young man has not shifted any weight and the ball is on him....

Realize that this is soft toss from 45 degree angle. A lot can happen between this point and contact. If he could show a photo a couple of frames before contact we could see better, IMO.

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Originally posted by BlueDog:

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So in this picture you can see he is just about to bring his hands through but hasn't finished his stride. So that is where the lack of separation is.

DenJake, yes....His lower half should be far ahead at this point in his swing process....

Can you post a clip of ARod or Soriano? Someone with a big leg lift.

Ya Ya,

It's BigbootE' ! You forgot the accent!

I guess nobody wants to be named Smallberries, though.

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Originally posted by BlueDog:
Their leg lift begins before ball release....

Right! What I wanted to see, was the timing of the leg lift and bat tip. The bat tip is timed with the peak of leg lift so that the hands are loading at toe plant and will be ready for "go" at heel plant. The higher the leg lift the more time you have to take to get the hips open and hands loaded. The same goes for a long stride forward.

This timing or sync as you say is the same as pitching. If a Pitcher has a runner on base, he is going to speed up his arm action and leg action. They both have to be sped up to get to the right "go" point on time.

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Originally posted by powertoallfields:
As Bluedog has stated before, momentum is forward and upward, not around. If you spin, you are losing momentum THROUGH the ball.

How do you define spinning?

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Originally posted by BlueDog:
Circular or linear hand path is semantics, IMO...

I believe a case could be made for both...It's like the rotational vs. linear swing argument...You can look at a video and see whichever one you wanna see....

Not if you look at an overhead view.

Overhead views show that the vast majority of major league hand paths, with the exception of Ichiro, are much more circular than linear.

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Originally posted by powertoallfields:
I have been saying all along...AT GO...they move in a straight line to just before contact. This video shows it clearly.

The hand path is linear until the front foot plants, but from then it's circular.

I'll give you a J-shaped hand path, but not a purely linear one.

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Originally posted by powertoallfields:
It appears to me that he is pulling his bat through with his biceps and wrists. He isn't getting extension through the ball and he has very little separation between upper and lower body, it looks more like a spin to me.

Here's a video clip of Rocco Baldelli hitting a home run to left field using basically the same swing as the kid in question (as far as the upper body is concerned).



Obviously, your extension theory has some holes in it.