Taking credit

when things go well everybody wants to take the credit. When things go south? I think we know the answer to that

Fungo,

That is very similar to the whole "bandwagon" thing.

You come out of high school and summer leagues having played well. They love you. You are great!

You go to a high profile showcase or tournament and dont do well - You stink!

You go to a few more and do well. You are Great!

You go to college - you dont play - You stink!

You play in college the next year - and go to the summer collegiate leagues and do well. You are great again!

Life as an athlete sure is funny sometimes.
I think that if you look at most successful athletes - on any advanced level - in any sport - they mostly ignore the stuff you are talking about - and the stuff I am talking about -- and they just proceed with a steely eyed determination and the heart of a warrior.

The rest is BS. IMO.

Fungo, your post is so true.

When my son was about ages 8 to 12 he played travel hockey at a much more competitive level than baseball. My husband who was a self-professed NON-expert in hockey but had played all his life (still does), was asked to be an assistant coach on one of the teams. In the couple of years that he helped out, he had the opportunity to coach Blake Wheeler, who in the 2004 NHL draft became the highest ever HS draftee when his name was called by Wayne Gretzky in round 1, #5 overall. Of course when we watched that draft on TV my hubby took full credit, kiddingly saying he must have made the difference for Blake. But he really WAS joking! I think it was actually me that helped turn Blake's life down that path, by telling his mom in the stands that her son had real potential! I would guess a few of his youth coaches do seriously feel that they had something to do with his success, and I'm sure some contributed. But the main factors I can see: 1. The kid had/has talent. 2. He was a very hard worker for many years, and I'm sure he still is. 3. His parents taught him the value of hard work, and also spent time and money to give him opportunities for the best training and competition.

Boy, did you ever hit the nail on the head! People tend to forget that these kids are acheving this on their own. Way too many people want to take credit for something that they could never do themselves, so they acheive it vicariously through some talented young man and want attention for someone else's success. That's a bunch of horse-bleep!

Yes, they get help with training and coaching and such, but that shouldn't cloud the fact that these boys who acheive, do it themselves. I can't recall the last time a coach hit a 90 mph fastball to win an 18u game, or struck out the side after coming on to relieve with the bases loaded and nobody out. You and I and the other guy in the stands didn't turn the double-play, the boys on the field did.

About the only thing I can take credit for with my summer teams is entering them into the proper tournaments and other games where they'll get a chance to perform in front of someone who can help further their career. When the game starts, its entirely up to the boys to achieve on their own. Coaching and instructing just goes with the terrritory and nobody should think that any of us performing our expected duties are what made some kid a high round pick or got him a scholarship with a big university. That's pure BS, IMO. Anyone who thinks differently is either in denial, or needs a reality check. The boys who make it, they do it on their own. If the coach, neighbor, uncle charlie or anyone else thinks they created some success story, then why aren't there far more of them? Most boys aren't able to make it to the most elite levels, regardless of who may have helped them or taught them to run to first instead of third after hitting the ball when they were playing Tee Ball.

Old saying:

"Success has a thousand fathers; failure is an orphan."

Fungo, your post has overtones towards those who prosper finacially. Sorry, I couldn't help myself I'm off to the ballpark. Have fun board. Can't wait to get back after the fireworks at Class A Dodger Stadium

You are all my Heroes! Peace and remember board, Shep Truly Cares about your potential prospect and wants what's best for him and his baseball career and that's why I'm here, not for the dough. peace

Fungo:

I know you and your boy will not likely remember this, but if you recall back in May of '91 there on the east side of Memphis near Germantown Rd. and Rt. 64 there was a burger joint called Shorty's...it's been long since it was torn down...you and your son came in and I thought it would be clever to 'pull a Lambert's' on the two of you.

I greased up a deluxe hamburger bun and pitched it towards the two of you...your son snared that greasy pitched bun perfectly...so well that I had it framed!

I'm quite sure that this is the moment that your son's catching ability started to soar upward...I'm positive.

It started that evening at Shorty's and the rest is history!

Fungo - You know...sometimes I am just stunned when we're thinking about the same thing. Yet another case of this.

So I've been thinking about this too...who DOES deserve the credit? Well in our son's case I would put it about like this.

Aside from himself...

1. His mother. She supplied the "good" genes, the determination, the 'attitude', the single-mindedness, the size (height in particular), the confidence, the swagger, the toughness, the competitiveness, the 'never-give-in' mental approach.

2. The rest of us. Not even close between (1) and (2).

The moms are the key. I am pretty sure about that.

Perhaps one should be happy with the fact that there is "success" to be "shared".

My approuch is to give Credit to everybody that ever came in Contact with my Son.
I truly believe that they all had a piece of his success up to this point.
Some more than other's, But they still had an impact.
Also word of mouth, which is as important IMO.
You can never have to many people behind you, Being Supportive. EH

theEH,
Kinda off topic but your “blanket appreciation” reminds me that most people think there are “baseball people” that actually hurt the futures of some young talented players? We hear of coaches abusing pitcher's arms and poor coaching all the time. The HSBBW is full of stories of bad advice being given to young players too. If this is happening, then EVERYONE a player comes in contact doesn't necessarily deserve credit.

Fungo

I like how the guy who gave your son the plastic bat is trying to take credit for his work,lol

The plastic bat guy was the key! Seriously, behind every player is a supportive Dad and often a Mom who loves her son and baseball. I know I keep writing the checks and going to tournaments, baseball games, showcases, and college camps, while buying equipment, uniforms, and the like. That reminds me, got to get a new plastic bat.

Give credit where credit is due - One of the coaches who knew the least about baseball, made baseball fun for my son at an important time in his life. That might be more important than much of the advice he got on how to throw the breaking ball.

I give credit (literally) to the local mechanic who has kept the car on the road. We always make it to the game and somehow limp on home.

High School coach takes credit for my sons scholarship. Number 175 is what he told us on signing day. I am furious since I felt that he did little to help my son. Three months out of high school ball and having watched my son play in college league this summer and I realized I was wrong. My son plays smart baseball and understands the game at a level that suprises me and his college coach. My sons high school coach taught him about the game, how to play the game. Trust me it kills me to admit this but with that knowledge and his work kethic I know my son will be successful. So I have to accept that it takes a community to raise a baseball player

Credit goes to all involved in the players process, even going back to LL if you do desire

We are just one of the pieces to the puzzle and we share in the joy of the players success

Very rarely does one person or one program have the right to "total credit" but some may deserve more credit than others for their support and direction

Although he would not or does not take credit, the Little League coach who introduced my son (and us) to a travel team coach deserves all of our respect...This man knew that my son needed more than what the local Little League could offer, and unselfishly promoted my son. His own son didn't make the travel team. If not for "Dave", I know that my family would not have had the wonderful experiences and learned as much as we did.

It is funny.With a team. when things go well everybody takes the credit. When things go bad fire the coach.

.
From a parental standpoint...I'm with the EH on this one....for lack of a better phrase, "It takes a village"...every little bit helps...but self credit does get comical at times...

From a Coaching standpoint...every player who excels I am personally and wholly responsible for...every player who doesn't excel, obviously didn't listen to me, and I had nothing to do with....

44
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quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Credit goes to all involved in the players process, even going back to LL if you do desire.
We are just one of the pieces to the puzzle and we share in the joy of the players success

My father-in-law who at times "works outside the box" and whose baseball claim is to be hit with more flyballs that he ever caught says he taught my son nothing about baseball but if it wasn't for him he wouldn't be here. His point was in line with TR's "pieces to the puzzle" comment. But he then goes on to say that while there have been many influences, it's that players inner soul is the true inspiration that takes him from level to level. Then he asks me if there are there ballplayers that have had great influences who then went bad? I say of coarse, many of them. He says who takes credit for those players? Then before he puts his nose back into some boring Russian novel he says. Do you think that many of those who take credit for someones success are actually only vindicating to themselves the fact are they are on a rightous trail in their own life?

This converstaion was after mowing his lawn, you should hear the Holiday discussions.

I’m going to address this issue only because there are people who have accused us for taking credit for a players success.

Yes, we do release the number of players that attended a PG event and went on to be drafted or play college baseball. We work hard and we feel very fortunate that we’ve had the opportunity to see so many talented kids over the years.

In nearly every release that has ever mentioned the numbers, we add the following note … copied from our latest release. Taking credit

Note: Often the PG naysayers get upset when we release these figures. However, they are a very important part of our business. We ask, if anyone else could claim these numbers, would they keep it confidential?

Please everyone, understand that we are not laying claim for these players getting drafted. Our job is to identify talented players, not to develop them, draft them or recruit them. That is why we use the term "attended PG events" rather than "PG Player".

We don't deserve any credit for the vast majority of talented players who attend our events and go on to get College Scholarships or become draft picks. We understand that Justin Upton would have been what he is, with or without PG.

The credit should go to the many coaches, teams, teammates, instructors, parents and most of all, to the individual players themselves. Many of these players play in excellent summer and fall programs. Without those programs PG would miss a lot of talented players.

Last, but not least, people should really appreciate those who are involved in scouting for Major League Clubs and the many college coaches who scout and recruit hard. Without these people, we would all be wasting our time.

Staying on this topic, one of my big pet peeves.

There are many great instructors out there. Unfortunately, even the best instructors will share my opinion on this.

When a pitcher or player is recognized as having outstanding talent… then is recruited by instructors to further improve.

Good players almost always want to improve. So often these good players end up working with anyone who convinces them they can make them better yet. This in itself is not such a bad thing, but the reason behind it sometimes is not the right reason. Often the reason is what this topic is all about (taking credit). All instructors want to have a Lastings Milledge or Scott Kazmir on their resume. Of course there are those who helped players improve, but there are others who really didn’t do anything. Some have even had a negative affect. Here is an example…

A few years ago we saw a young (Sophomore) RHP who really impressed us. He had very good mechanics, smooth and fast arm action, and he was 6’4/175. He topped out at 86 mph with a good curve ball and he could throw all his pitches for strikes. The next year we saw this kid again. This time he was 6’5/190, but with herky-jerky delivery, stiff arm action, off balance, with no idea of where his pitches were going. He still touched 86 mph with his fastball.

Here is what happened. After the first time we saw him we reported our opinion for all to see. I asked him after he pitched the second time… **** do you have a pitching instructor you’re working with. He replied “Yes, I’ve been working with ****** ****** for the last 6 months.” I wrote down that instructors name, for future reference… just in case anyone would ever ask about him. Obviously I could not recommend that instructor to another player or parent. The young pitcher’s parents went on to tell me that they received several calls from instructors after we reported that he has a chance to be one of the top pitchers in his class. They thought it was a good idea.

This kid did come back the following year and ended up being drafted and signed with a national power college. Of course, he found a good instructor who allowed him to use his natural ability and just fine tune it. He was throwing free and easy, up to 92-93 his senior year.

I’ll bet that the instructor who almost ruined him is taking credit for his success. And using him as an example to get others to work with.

PG - Good story and advice on the instructors. You are right...once a talent is identified, everyone wants to "better it."

On the "PG taking credit" angle, I think you're being too sensitive. I see no problem whatsoever with how you market with lists of former players. Heck, even our little old Pony league has a page on our website about our former players now in college or pro ball. We just think its cool for people to know and ?might? represent that we're doing something right.

You guys do a lot right...you did a lot right for us personally and you should be proud of it and not apologize for it.

All the best.
Tom

PG,
I don't recall you ever taking credit for the success of those players, you guys only say that they have passed through your organization, and that statement is so true when stating it in a business sense. Shame on the Naysayers.

rz1,

Agree with you. I have never seen PG take credit for a players success.

The fact is that the vast majority of the most talented young players participate in PG events across the USA. Every single year.

Is PG supposed to hide that fact?
LOL

When asked, I often give credit to my son's little league coaches who refused to even consider him as a pitcher during his 11 and 12 year old seasons... As a result of not pitching until he was 13, he did not do any damage to his arm from throwing too many pitches in a game or those funny curveballs that seem to destroy young elbows. So yes- a coach who did nothing can deserve credit

I give the most credit of my sons success to the HS basketball coach who cut him in his Junior year because he would not give the summer HS basketball team top billing during the summer.

quote:

I give the most credit of my sons success to the HS basketball coach

I thought I heard one time that Michael Jordan gave all the credit to his 9th grade basketball coach who cut him from the team

There is also a corollary to this topic and that is called laying blame (on someone else) which can be just as invalid as improperly taking the credit.

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:
I give the most credit of my sons success to the HS basketball coach who cut him in his Junior year because he would not give the summer HS basketball team top billing during the summer.

******Misguided HS coaches is another topic. What getting cut really means is a young man was deprived of being a teammate, enjoying a game he must have liked, and still does, denying an athlete from becoming well-rounded, and stripping away some additional school pride****

I see no good in any of that, even if it freed up time for summer baseball as a result of the cut.

The credit lies in the heart and passion of the individual athlete. Without that, nothing else matters, or is valid.

Amazing I was thinking about this the other day. The son is enjoying success on both the pitching and hitting fronts. If there was one person who would get the credit for introducing him to baseball it wouldn't be me but it would be his first Little League Coach. He absolutely made it fun and exciting for him to play. I give him all the credit in the world for giving my son an opportunity to play and to put im in different positions.

Now he hasn't seen my son in about 5 years but I know he would be proud. As far as his current hitting ability I think I will take the credit along with my son, his work ethic is incredible and his attitude and love for the game is 110%. I couldn't take any credit for that, only the instruction side. I am sure many people and coaches will take credit for his success though.

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:
I give the most credit of my sons success to the HS basketball coach who cut him in his Junior year because he would not give the summer HS basketball team top billing during the summer

Originally posted by OLDSLUGGER8:
******Misguided HS coaches is another topic. What getting cut really means is a young man was deprived of being a teammate, enjoying a game he must have liked, and still does, denying an athlete from becoming well-rounded, and stripping away some additional school pride****

I see no good in any of that, even if it freed up time for summer baseball as a result of the cut.

Looking back I'm still pessed about how things happened. My son however will say that it was the best thing that happened as far as his baseball career went. Sure he didn't have that "teammate" experience, and missed a State Championship season, but, all the guys knew what was going on. To this day if you asked if he got cut he would say yes, but, he quit first because he let those basketball teammates down during the previous summer while putting baseball ahead of basketball. OLDSLUGGERS, you are absolutely correct when you say there are "misguided HS coaches" but at the same time it takes two to tango. My son who was the leading scorer on the Soph bball team dropped the basketball in March and didn't think basketball until the following Oct. There's no doubt he should have been on that team as far as talent goes but there's also no doubt that he did not put in the committment that coach was looking for all year. In the end does a coach pamper a better player who is seasonal or show committment to a player who may not contribute as much but is committed to the program?

Take a look at how many people take credit for Barry Zito's success if you want proof of what Fungo has said.

Personally, I give Zito credit for my getting hit in the shoulder by a BP line drive while I was waiting to get his autograph for my son.

(BTW, Zito probably spends more time than almost any other player signing autographs. I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression from the previous.)

Is it just me or has Fungo become even more insightful lately? He's almost Zen-like or existentialist.

I think I recall reading somewhere that Fungo recently retired. Is that true??? Maybe that has something to do with it.