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Teaching hitters.

L LClifton10+ posts
quote:
Lil' Jonny comes to you for a hitting lesson, and his hand action and load are none existent. He starts with his hands just below shoulder hieght and about 6 inches from his body. Do you try having him .....

A) start his hands moving down, and then back up?

B) start his hands higher and load them down and slightly behind him?

C) hide his hands from the pitcher before go?

D) start his hands lower and load them up?

E) all of the above



E) Will pretty much assure that you help that hitter find HIS pattern.
Last edited by LClifton
5 TOOLS5 TOOLS10+ posts
SO SWINGBUILDER U SAYING THAT BAT TIPPING IS DONE WITH THE WRIST CORRECT... AND NOT THE BACK ELBOW? I HAVE BEEN DOING IT WITH MY WRIST FOR 3 WEEKS NOW AND I ALREADY FEEL LIKE I HAVE MORE POWER AND MY HANDS FEEL QUICKER... BUT IF THERE IS AWAY TO CREATE MORE POWER AND BAT SPEED BY TIPPIN WITH THE BACK ELBOW PLS LET ME KNOW!!!
T TripleDad500+ posts
deemax, that's not an easy question as it may seem.

whats your definition of stride? Is stride a step forward? If player lifts leg and places it down in same spot do you consider that a stride? Did Bagwell have a reverse stride?

btw, in my experience most young ones over stride more often than no stride. Creates serious balance issues, wieght forward etc...One of the easy ones to fix though.

I have tought kids that have had stride issues as it relates to timing. This is hard and frustrating to correct. Some kids have a lot of trouble comprehending the timing aspect of the stride. Just takes a lot of reps. Sometime have to go to a very very small stride and just let the kid "find it" through reps. When you run into one of these you will know it, frustrating...kinda of like working with the lightning fast hands pull hitter kid..frustrating...takes patients.
BlueDogBlueDog1,000+ posts
The key to a stride is to keep it slow and start it early, IMO........

It's a push against the back hip and reaching out with the front foot....

The push loads the back hip and the reach opens the front hip....The hips are stretched....And, the front foot lands softly.......

MLB hitters don't seem to have a sense of urgency to get the front foot down.....The stride is not late...It is slow but begins early.......
Last edited by BlueDog
deemaxdeemax500+ posts
Swinging Down.

Many, Many coaches teach to swing down. This includes many big league and amatuer instructors. If the plane of the swing is slightly up, can these instructors still be right. IMO yes.

IMO there is merit to approaching "down to the ball", even though contact is made with a slight up stroke. One of the biggest mistakes I see in youth hitters is trying to create the upswing to soon by lowering thier hands with the pitch and then "pushing" an upward plane.

I teach a down to the ball approach at "go", and up through it. I find more times than not that this helps get a hitter into a slight up stroke.

What do you teach?
Last edited by deemax
T tom.guerry100+ posts
deemax -

Right you are.

The swing plane is created much like an old fashioned golf swing where the bat is swung down while the hips turn level and the resulting plane is a blend.

relative to turning the hips pretty level, you have to resists and turn the bat in a different more downward plane to get the stretch and fire of the torso muscles so you don't have to pull up/fly open and cut across the ball.

Here is Bobby Jones describing the same typical tendency in golf which prevents you from being able to "swing down".

GOTO the 1min 30 sec mark as Jones explains how a good swing involves hitting down and shifting the weight forward and down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMDPIqRf0zs&NR=1
L laflippin100+ posts
This subject is also covered implicitly, and illustrated well, in the 1972 Science of Hitting video material.

While Williams confines his most of his discussion to the idea that hitters should have their bat traveling in the same plane as the pitch in the hitting zone, it is very obvious that the bat must first travel in a downward arc to get in position for the slight upward swing plane.

The only bone I have to pick with Williams' description is that he talks of his favorite swing trajectory as, "swinging in the 'opposite plane' of the pitch". I know what he means to convey: I.e., "within the hitting zone, and indeed to make the effective hitting zone as large as possible, the bat trajectory should be in the same plane as the pitch". Obviously the bat and ball are traveling in opposite directions within the same plane, but we are not really talking about "opposite planes" here.

Anyway, time for my semi-regular plug for Rare Sports Films and Doak Ewing: you can still buy Williams' classic video on hitting for $30...I personally value Williams' book and video over every other instructional hitting book or video I've ever seen (a fair-to-large number by now!).
M micmeister500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by laflippin:
This subject is also covered implicitly, and illustrated well, in the 1972 Science of Hitting video material.

While Williams confines his most of his discussion to the idea that hitters should have their bat traveling in the same plane as the pitch in the hitting zone, it is very obvious that the bat must first travel in a downward arc to get in position for the slight upward swing plane.

The only bone I have to pick with Williams' description is that he talks of his favorite swing trajectory as, "swinging in the 'opposite plane' of the pitch". I know what he means to convey: I.e., "within the hitting zone, and indeed to make the effective hitting zone as large as possible, the bat trajectory should be in the same plane as the pitch". Obviously the bat and ball are traveling in opposite directions within the same plane, but we are not really talking about "opposite planes" here.

Anyway, time for my semi-regular plug for Rare Sports Films and Doak Ewing: you can still buy Williams' classic video on hitting for $30...I personally value Williams' book and video over every other instructional hitting book or video I've ever seen (a fair-to-large number by now!).




Got mine yesterday! Some good stuff in there! Some really good slow mo' footage of his swing and a few others. The one really interesting thing I got from watching his swing was the "running start" of his hips. Chameleon talked about the "running start" of the bat and I think he nailed it and the best way to execute and teach it as well. But, I think this piece of the puzzle gives the hitter more time to wait, more adjustability, and more power.
M micmeister500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by BlueDog:
The key to a stride is to keep it slow and start it early, IMO........

It's a push against the back hip and reaching out with the front foot....

The push loads the back hip and the reach opens the front hip....The hips are stretched....And, the front foot lands softly.......

MLB hitters don't seem to have a sense of urgency to get the front foot down.....The stride is not late...It is slow but begins early.......




I like to teach it as "slow and soft." I try to get them to think of landing on broken glass with no shoes on. When the slow, soft stride is put together with the running start of the bat and hips, it gives the hitter many ways to adjust timing for different pitches, IMO.
M micmeister500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by tom.guerry:
deemax -

Right you are.

The swing plane is created much like an old fashioned golf swing where the bat is swung down while the hips turn level and the resulting plane is a blend.

relative to turning the hips pretty level, you have to resists and turn the bat in a different more downward plane to get the stretch and fire of the torso muscles so you don't have to pull up/fly open and cut across the ball.

Here is Bobby Jones describing the same typical tendency in golf which prevents you from being able to "swing down".

GOTO the 1min 30 sec mark as Jones explains how a good swing involves hitting down and shifting the weight forward and down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMDPIqRf0zs&NR=1




IMO, it doesn't matter where the bat starts. It only matters that it gets on plane. I think Mel Ott, Jimmy Foxx, Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth all show that the bat doesn't need to start on a downward plane.
deemaxdeemax500+ posts
quote:
I think Mel Ott, Jimmy Foxx, Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth all show that the bat doesn't need to start on a downward plane.


If the pitch is below your hands (which most pitches are) the swing will start down,and then back up. This includes Ruth, Ott, Foxx, and Cobb. These four HOF'ers dont display examples of "doesn't need to start on a downward plane" at all, unless they are swinging at pitches above thier hands.

How could Ruth hit a thigh high pitch from this hand position if his hands dont go down in the beginning? The only way Ruth would not swing on a downward plane (at first) is if the pitch is as high or higher than his hands. The proper swing plane is slightly up... but it does not start up.
Last edited by deemax
deemaxdeemax500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by BlueDog:
The key to a stride is to keep it slow and start it early, IMO........

It's a push against the back hip and reaching out with the front foot....

The push loads the back hip and the reach opens the front hip....The hips are stretched....And, the front foot lands softly.......

MLB hitters don't seem to have a sense of urgency to get the front foot down.....The stride is not late...It is slow but begins early.......


Blue, IMO this was a great description. I used "It's a push against the back hip and reaching out with the front foot...." with a hitter I was working with and it made perfect sense to him (and me). He was able to apply it immediatley.
Last edited by deemax
M micmeister500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by deemax:
quote:
I think Mel Ott, Jimmy Foxx, Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth all show that the bat doesn't need to start on a downward plane.


If the pitch is below your hands (which most pitches are) the swing will start down,and then back up. This includes Ruth, Ott, Foxx, and Cobb. These four HOF'ers dont display examples of "doesn't need to start on a downward plane" at all, unless they are swinging at pitches above thier hands.

How could Ruth hit a thigh high pitch from this hand position if his hands dont go down in the beginning? The only way Ruth would not swing on a downward plane (at first) is if the pitch is as high or higher than his hands. The proper swing plane is slightly up... but it does not start up.




The tilt of his body, angle of the bat and the rotation of his hips would compensate for any need to swing down on the pitch. The bottom hand finds the plane of the pitch with the tilt of the upper body, angle of the bat, and the flex in the knees, virtually any pitch can be reached. It's just my opinion, but I don't think the "swing" actually starts until the top hand reaches plane and fires to the ball. The top hand swings up on the same plane as the pitch. See Posada's swing and non swing in the link below.


http://www.hittingillustrated.com/library/Posadasidebyside.gif
M micmeister500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by BlueDog:
quote:
How do you explain the fact that Posada's bottom hand is in the same position on his check swing and at contact in his full swing?


Because he stopped his swing after torquing the bat handle.........He stopped that swing pretty late.....




It's just a matter of where we think the swing begins. I just happen to believe that the torque of the handle is just getting the bat in position to swing and you believe it is part of the swing. I think you could swing just as well by starting the bat flat resting on your tricep, but that's JMO.
BlueDogBlueDog1,000+ posts
quote:
I think you could swing just as well by starting the bat flat resting on your tricep, but that's JMO.


The power source needs a running start......That's where torquing the bat handle comes into play.....And, also, rotating into footplant........The two power sources are getting a running start.......

Powering with the shoulders is just too slow.....And, late swing adjustments are a son of a gun when you're connected like that...A circular handpath is far too restrictive to hit really good pitching......Bypass the shoulders and get the hands and arms free to swing the bat....

I have never understood why its important to think we know when the swing starts..........A swing can be stopped well after everything says "go".....Just as the swing can be redirected after it starts.....

For my money, give the power sources a running start and start the loading process in time not to be late on the ball........

From there, it's about making adjustments.....IMO, of course.....
Last edited by BlueDog
floridafanfloridafan5,000+ posts
One thing that was stressed to my Son was the benefit of having motion in the club head. The point was that it takes a lot less energy to swing a bat through the hitting zone that is already in motion as opposed to from a dead stop. It takes additional energy to break inertia, more than it does to keep somthing moving that is already in motion. This energy should be able to be transfered into greater bat speed.
Some hitters have a tendency, from time to time, of getting their bat in motion (trigger) only to stop it just prior to launch. Better to keep the bat in motion (controlled motion with purpose) and then launch without stopping.
BlueDogBlueDog1,000+ posts
quote:
Can you describe succsessful ways of teaching this to hitters who are struggling with it?


Start the stride with the hands low..........As you stride, raise the hands....Keep the bat out of plane in a vertical (weightless) position......As the front foot is touching the ground, the hands should be about armpit height......If you recognize offspeed, drop the hands slightly then raise them......If you recognize fastball, eliminate this step........Load the hands by tipping the bat forward toward the pitcher........

Next step is very important........At "go", swing the bat without letting the hands go forward....Make the hands stay put.....This will force you to torque the handle of the bat in-between the hands....

After you torque the bat handle, lateral tilt...
M micmeister500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by deemax:

Can you describe succsessful ways of teaching this to hitters who are struggling with it?

Thanks.




Chameleon's "snap the pole off drill" got it for me! Rotate the wrists in opposite directions, the top hand will be using this to tuck the elbow and the other to get the back of the hand facing the sky at contact.
M micmeister500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by BlueDog:
quote:
Can you describe succsessful ways of teaching this to hitters who are struggling with it?


Start the stride with the hands low..........As you stride, raise the hands....Keep the bat out of plane in a vertical (weightless) position......As the front foot is touching the ground, the hands should be about armpit height......If you recognize offspeed, drop the hands slightly then raise them......If you recognize fastball, eliminate this step........Load the hands by tipping the bat forward toward the pitcher........





This is Ted Williams and Barry Bonds' swing.
T tfox100+ posts
I am going to ask a question with a little twist to it.


Does the running start work by itself and get everything else into position for someone that doesn't understand or have the proper mechanics in the swing at or right before contact.


My feeling is that some basics need to be taught and UNDERSTOOD before moving ahead into the running start.


Mainly,imo,teaching getting the bat on the same plane of the ball needs to worked on before and seperately.

NOW,I am no hitting instructor but have 2 kids and both are different but they both benefit from the basic knowledge before adding or trying to add a running start.


My son is picking it up quickly and he has had MUCH more of the basics before trying to learn it than my daughter.

My daughter struggles with it more.That may just be the difference in 2 different people.
M micmeister500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by tfox:
I am going to ask a question with a little twist to it.


Does the running start work by itself and get everything else into position for someone that doesn't understand or have the proper mechanics in the swing at or right before contact.


My feeling is that some basics need to be taught and UNDERSTOOD before moving ahead into the running start.


Mainly,imo,teaching getting the bat on the same plane of the ball needs to worked on before and seperately.

NOW,I am no hitting instructor but have 2 kids and both are different but they both benefit from the basic knowledge before adding or trying to add a running start.


My son is picking it up quickly and he has had MUCH more of the basics before trying to learn it than my daughter.

My daughter struggles with it more.That may just be the difference in 2 different people.




IMO, you should teach the contact position first, then the flat hands with bat on tricep (hips already open, palm of bottom hand facing down, palm of top hand facing up) second, and then work on the best way to get to each. The start will be that hitter's style and what is comfortable to them and the finish will take care of itself. Tee work to get 1 and 2 down is essential, IMO. Until they can consistently hit the ball solidly from the #2 position, they should stay on the tee. Then move to soft toss, front toss and finally live bp. All from the #2 position. Then go back to the tee and work on the best way for each hitter's body type or strength of game, to get to the #2 position. The quicker their hands, the less "running start" they will need. Most, until they get in High School, won't need any running start at all.
BlueDogBlueDog1,000+ posts
quote:
My feeling is that some basics need to be taught and UNDERSTOOD before moving ahead into the running start.


The running start of the upper and lower body is as basic as it gets.......It cannot get more basic.......

If you don't bypass the shoulders, then you will power with the shoulders........This will make your swing slow and good pitching will sit you down.......
Last edited by BlueDog
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