Tebow

Swampboy posted:

Please help the moderators keep this thread open by directing future comments AWAY from religion and politics and back TOWARD baseball. 

Thank you.  

Saw Tim Kurkjian (can't remember ESPN or MLB channel) bring up some good points.

First, said, that as far as being on a milb roster, he is not taking anyone away from an opportunity to play in the ML game. Statistics show that only 3 players will eventually get to the show that are on any current milb roster. He also added that when all is said and done and he leaves the game (no one mention the word failed) this will prove even further how DIFFICULT it is to reach the highest level.  I think that was a pretty good assumption from someone who knows much more about the professional game than we do. In other words, Tebow will never make a ML roster.

I have no issues with Tim Tebow.  My issue is with the Mets.  Tebow in my opinion is nothing more than a celebrity and the Mets know just where they will find his biggest fans who will fill empty seats in the stands. In other words Tebow represents $$$$, not a future MLger.

As a footnote, I agree with Kurkjian, but only at the MiLB level, not sure it applies to AZFL or ML spring training.

JMO

Teaching Elder posted:

RJM posted:

Tebow was not run out of football because of his religion. He was run out because he can't play QB at the NFL level. This is what I'm talking about. 

Well...I've never said Tebow was run out of football because of his religion.  I personally don't know anyone else who believes that, and I know A LOT of Christians.   There certainly are anecdotal cases of people who believe that Tebow was denied a chance in the NFL because of his religion.  Go into the comments section of an article about him, and you'll see a teenager or two say something of that nature.  But, come on, there are anecdotal cases of people believing all sorts of things.   Don't make an extreme case out to be your image of an entire group of people.

Is Tebow reviled because of his religion?  Absolutely.  Tebow is hyped up because he is a compelling story.  He's a great guy who has worked very hard in his life and reached some great achievements in large part due to his work ethic, leadership and heart.   He's not some dilettante  giving baseball a "little try" for a while.  He works as hard as anyone else, and has the respect of his teammates and coaches.   But his religiosity, which is not nearly as overt as some others, and is way, way, way less in your face than Michael Sam's choice of who he sleeps with, is thrown in his face as a reason to dislike him, or his fan-boys, or his 6 year-old Sunday School class teacher, etc.

To want him to fail because of Christian's wanting him to succeed, a few of which may be irrational 14 year olds,  is not healthy.   That's like wanting Sandy Koufax to fail because he took off for Yom Kippur, and Jews everywhere, of every age, where so very proud of him and wanted to see him succeed.

Go to a game.  Meet the guy.  Shake his hand - he most likely will oblige.  I think that you will have a brand new perspective on him.

People who thought Tebow was run out of the NFL for his religion were ALL over the Internet each time he was released. 

PGStaff posted:

Tebow and Kurt Warner are very similar when it comes to Religion.  If someone can throw well enough they will keep you.

Race and religion do seem to cause way too much hatred among some people.  There are great people and bad people of all races and many religions.  I think the thing I like most about Tebow is it appears he has no hate in him.

All the other stuff is just entertainment. Baseball, all sports, are simply forms of entertainment. Odd how many of the greatest athletes and teams ever, were both loved and hated by many.  Mohammad Ali, Barry Bonds, Lebron James, the Yankees, etc.  Not saying Tebow is in the same class as far as professional achievement, but he shares the same type of popularity.  Whether I like him or not, whether I think he is capable of doing something or not, whether he is treated fairly or not, whether he succeeds or fails,, whether he is fake or real... In my mind he is just one unusual and fascinating figure.

Loved watching Kurt Warner and the Greatest Shiw on Turf. And then that he was able to make a comeback and excel again with the Cardinals. 

2forU posted:

Cleveland did not see Tebow fitting into their vision of the future - Cleveland has no vision, unless it's losing (sorry Cleveland football fans, but you suck).  The Jets, well they just suck and I don't believe they will ever recover under current ownership.  Then we had Cleveland and RGIII, I mean RGII, RGI, and then RG (he lost a I after major injury - ownership and coaching ruined RG).

From a sports rag: the Jets have shown just how damaging Tebow's popularity can be to a team. Those who blindly support and follow him everywhere he goes—"Tebowmaniacs"—have fueled his demise as much as they have helped him. 

Whether a team is looking for a starting quarterback, a backup or a fullback, they can find solutions that will not provide the distractions that Tebow does. Why trade for Tebow when you can just draft a late-round quarterback (who is likely a better passer) who wouldn't bring ESPN cameras to their training camp?

 

Tebow is now treated like Terrell Owens, in that decision-makers see Tebow as more of a destructive force than an asset—which is incredibly ironic considering how different the two personalities are and how well-intentioned Tebow is. 

 Tebow was also released by the Patriots. Are they a franchise that doesn't know what they're doing?  Maybe it was going 11-30 in the preseason against second and third stringers.

 ... producing his fair share of head-scratching plays.

http://nesn.com/2013/08/report...onsistent-preseason/

.246

2forU posted:

.246

Would be so awesome if he could somehow make it...

The wife is taking me to the ballgame tonight to see Tebow...we bought seats a couple weeks ago and got them right behind the dugout but there were very few available...he's definitely putting butts in seats.  I'm certainly impressed with what he's done so far.  I still don't think he's got a snowballs chance of making it but it ain't what I think that matters.

What area do you all live in?

2forU posted:

.246

Not the number to actual be concerned with, but he is putting up a .725 OPS in a pitchers park in a pitchers league (league OPS is .669, team is .609).  That's better than I would have guessed he would do, though the sample size is still small.  His 22.5% K rate isn't great but it isn't completely awful either.

Downside to all of that, though, is that's still only the 54th best OPS in the league, and the real studs are putting up OPS numbers 200-500 points higher while being 7-10 years younger.  Given his defensive limitations, he's probably not hitting his way out of that league legitimately without putting up a .900ish OPS.

Teaching Elder...we live in North Carolina...fairly close to Hickory

bigcubbiefan posted:

Teaching Elder...we live in North Carolina...fairly close to Hickory

Isn't that where the Owls are from?  I've been to one of their games.  I am soon to move a bit south of Savannah. Hope to see him this summer. 

Yep...we are in same town as the Owls...although they are now defunct.

Tebow will be judged more by his mechanics and consistency than his stats unless he puts up phenomenal numbers. When I look at stats I look for consistency and exceptions. On milb.com his profile/stat page has his last ten games.

The good news is he's hitting  .314 over his last ten games. But with only 65 at bats one game can alter stats significantly. He has eight of his eleven hits in the time period in three games. In the other seven games he has four hits. Over the first nine of them his batting average ranged from .176 to .213. One three hit game jumped him to .246. The difference in three hits right now is 46 points. 

I don't see a whole lot to get excited about. But let's see where he is at 200 at bats. At least then a three hit game only changes stats 15 points. 

It looks like pitchers made adjustments early on to him being able to only hit certain pitches and he struggled. Now it looks like he has made some adjustments back and starting to have a little success. Who knows how he will handle it when pitchers adjust again? Good for him and good for pitchers who can make a name for themselves getting him out.  I'm rooting for success.

As more and more teams get better scouting reports, he will have a tougher time. 

His size is going to hurt him. Someone should tell him that baseball players arent supposed to look like football players.  Pitchers will continue to throw inside fastballs, because he is too big to turn on pitches as others can ( read this in bleacher report).

Once again to keep in mind, he is a 29 year old former college star playing single A milb where the average player is 21.

TPM posted:

As more and more teams get better scouting reports, he will have a tougher time. 

His size is going to hurt him. Someone should tell him that baseball players arent supposed to look like football players.  Pitchers will continue to throw inside fastballs, because he is too big to turn on pitches as others can ( read this in bleacher report).

Once again to keep in mind, he is a 29 year old former college star playing single A milb where the average player is 21.

The only shot I see Tebow having is blowing through A and AA ball this year. Then blowing through AAA and promoted to MLB after the all star break next year. Based on his start this year I don't see it happening. 

He is a 29 year old who hasnt played ball in years. right. But dont say baseball players arent supposed to look like football player or that he is too big to turn on inside pitches. Not true. MLB ball players can be large men also. Not just pitchers who are routinely 6'4" 225 and larger.

Mike Trout and Bryce Harper have bodies that could be used to play football professionally.They dont have ANY problems turning on inside pitches.  If you think I am wrong , check out Youtube videos on workouts posted by your favorite big leaguer and see for yourself. These guys lift wieghts and they are bigger now than they were twenty years ago. Maybe not a lot of Offensive or Defensive Lineman playing in MLB but certainly plenty of QB sized guys, WR/DB sized guys, and RB/LB sized guys. Google the height and weight of most of these players....it can be surprising. Long list of NFL and College QBs who pitched in the minors and in high school at a high level or who were drafted but chose football.

If Tebow doesnt make it , it can be for any number of reasons, none of which are his size. Many of the best athletes were two-sport stars in high school.

Hard to hit 400+ foot bombs when you dont weigh 190lbs. Not impossible to think that Mike Trout at 6'2" 235lbs or Bryce Harper 6'4" 235 could play LB for an NFL team with their speed and athleticism.  Tim Tebow is about 6'3" 235lbs......

Last time I looked his average was rising...( not hard considering where it was ) . 

Jury is still out. He is selling tickets and tee shirts. Mets getting there moneys worth?? I cant say yet. What I will say is he sure is the number one most talked about and covered Minor Leaguer in a long time....If the casual fan is talking about baseball and isnt talking about suspensions or other negative garbage, it is a good thing. Maybe his presence will convince some of the high school super athletes to choose to play baseball as their number one sport

As a baseball fan I am all for LeBron, Patrick Kane, Lionel Messi, and Garrett Myles all getting deals to try to play baseball. The sport wins by better athletes trying to play.  At the very least Tebow hasn't been a complete incompetent joke like what was predicted and now the goal post (Insert Clever Ex-Heisman Reference Here) is being moved to he has to be in the show by the 2018 All-Star Game.

I hope he hits 400 foot bombs and I also hope a pitcher with nasty stuff gets moved up to a higher level for striking him out.

I'm not sure that anyone thought he would be a complete incompetent joke, he's not Shaq Thompson.  I would say that the expectation was probably centered around his AFL performance, and that he's likely near the upper end of what I thought it was realistic for him to do. He'd be several standard deviations away from any reasonable prediction if he makes it to MLB at all, much less the all-star game.

The realistic ceiling on what should be expected at this point is probably competent AA-offense, but not good enough defense to be an on-field asset at that level. The upper error bar on that prediction probably doesn't include reaching MLB (on talent alone, anyway). The lower error bar is probably an eventual collapse back to AFL-like numbers at his current level.

Hard to hit 400+ foot bombs when you dont weigh 190lbs.

Power is generated by bat speed not size and strength. Mookie Betts is 5'9" 160. (31-113-.318/.534/.900)

Bat speed may be driven by size and strength. But it's not the reason a player has power. Not every big player has power.