Tebow's eye black

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I am just curious if his college game will transfer to the pros, or will he flame out like a lot of Florida QB's.

He has tools ... size, arm, speed. This is not the same offense where the other Florida QB's failed to make the transition to the pros. Tebow can thread the needle. The past Florida QB's laid out flares to guys open by ten yards.

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Originally posted by Tx-Husker:

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God doesn't care who wins.

RJM, To say He doesn't care is strong, but, I'll bet God gets a big belly laugh out of how important we make sports out to be! [sort of like we laugh at dogs chasing their own tail] I believe you are right in the indifference in the outcome. I'm sure He cares, however, about the process and how the game is played.

I like the way you put this. I know it doesn't really affect God either which way regarding the outcome of the game. I give praise to God for safety and for giving me the abilities to play the game, as well as to give me strength to have the right attitude throughout. I pray every inning before I step onto the mound for this. Should this be not allowed?

What if a player had "The Holocaust Never Happened" printed across his two eye blacks? It's just an opinion others have expressed.

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Originally posted by RJM:
What if a player had "The Holocaust Never Happened" printed across his two eye blacks? It's just an opinion others have expressed.

Just because I don't agree with someone point of view doesn't they shouldn't be allowed to voice it.

Sure, I don't agree with that ... I would see that, maybe have a laugh, and move on. I sure wouldn't make a big deal about it. It's that person's right to make that statement. One of the wonderful things about living in this country....

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If his religion espoused killing others for having different beliefs like some do, then I'd have a problem with it.

His religion did on three Crusades to the Middle East during the Middle Ages. This is why many middle eastern Muslims believe the the US, which they see as a Christian nation, is still on a crusade.

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Originally posted by J.Weaver #5:
One last thing... CPLZ suggested that Tebow might change his decision to put the verse on his eyeblack if he knew that he were turning off 5 people to every 1 he made a positive impact on...

The numbers I used were arbitrary and intended to illustrate a point. What you believe that number would be, is probably reflective of what camp you stand in regarding religion. Devouts probably view it as a favorable ratio based on their peer group sampling, while athiests view it as a huge gap based on their peer group samplings.

1.) I think that the majority of people would fall under either agreeing with Tebow or being indifferent rather than disagreeing as adamantly as some have here and


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2.) The Bible says the reason Christians are on the Earth is to reach other people for Christ. It also says that we should present the Word and let others decide on if they want to pursue it or not. That is what Tebow is trying to do. He is not shoving his beliefs down anyone's throat. There is, IMO, nothing wrong with him using his status as a platform to voice his beliefs.

No offense taken. One thing that life should have taught most of us, especially in these PC times, is that how the message is delivered is paramount to what the message truly is. If, as it has been asserted, that anyone would be thrilled with an 80% alienation, I would counter that the person has placed himself above the goals.

I agree with you that he did nothing wrong, although I do fall in the camp of Coach May and ShortstopMom that individualisms don't belong.

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What if a player had "The Holocaust Never Happened" printed across his two eye blacks?

He would also have to be a really big man, or have to write really small.

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I do not feel that the athetic arena or a website such as this is the place for any religious or political promotion. I do not need to have someone I don't even know telling me to read the bible everyday or more often or that the passage cited on Teibows eyeblack helped him win--his talent helped him win plain and simple

And this is from a guy who has seen that "bright light at the end of the tunnel" 8 times in my life

TRhit

TRhit, sounds like to me, you've seen nothing.....Keep looking and you just may find what Tebow has found...

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Originally posted by CPLZ:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by J.Weaver #5:
One last thing... CPLZ suggested that Tebow might change his decision to put the verse on his eyeblack if he knew that he were turning off 5 people to every 1 he made a positive impact on...

The numbers I used were arbitrary and intended to illustrate a point. What you believe that number would be, is probably reflective of what camp you stand in regarding religion. Devouts probably view it as a favorable ratio based on their peer group sampling, while athiests view it as a huge gap based on their peer group samplings.

1.) I think that the majority of people would fall under either agreeing with Tebow or being indifferent rather than disagreeing as adamantly as some have here and


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2.) The Bible says the reason Christians are on the Earth is to reach other people for Christ. It also says that we should present the Word and let others decide on if they want to pursue it or not. That is what Tebow is trying to do. He is not shoving his beliefs down anyone's throat. There is, IMO, nothing wrong with him using his status as a platform to voice his beliefs./QUOTE]

No offense taken. One thing that life should have taught most of us, especially in these PC times, is that how the message is delivered is paramount to what the message truly is. If, as it has been asserted, that anyone would be thrilled with an 80% alienation, I would counter that the person has placed himself above the goals.

I agree with you that he did nothing wrong, although I do fall in the camp of Coach May and ShortstopMom that individualisms don't belong.

I cant understand this being a problem if it was just concerning dress code and not the message being portrayed.

In response to your arbitrary numbers scenario... I understood the numbers were just there to fill space, to give an example. However, and I hate doing this because I know everyone does not share the same beliefs, the Bible gives Christians the mission of reaching other people for Christ. If I were to go on a missions trip to Mexico and reach 1 person for Christ in the over 200 I spoke with, I would consider it a success. Maybe the 199 weren't ready for what I believe in... maybe they will never be. But that 1 person will, if my beliefs are true, spend the rest of eternity with me in Heaven.

I know you don't necessarily believe this, but I am just trying to give you an idea of why I believe the way that I do about this subject. People are going to be turned off of something no matter what it is. It is my job to reach others for Christ. This is much more important to me than baseball, than anything else I could ever think of...

As for now, I am going to go lead the college life and play some Rock Band. I'll be back to check this thread out later. Keep it civil because this is interesting me and I want to read more when I get back! (Though I know this isn't the Illinois board, so I don't really have to many worries about that )

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Originally posted by J.Weaver #5:

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Originally posted by RJM:
What if a player had "The Holocaust Never Happened" printed across his two eye blacks? It's just an opinion others have expressed.

Just because I don't agree with someone point of view doesn't they shouldn't be allowed to voice it.

Sure, I don't agree with that ... I would see that, maybe have a laugh, and move on. I sure wouldn't make a big deal about it. It's that person's right to make that statement. One of the wonderful things about living in this country....

I'd bet enough people, including those not Jewish would be offended to the point where placing anything on eye black would be banned.

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God doesn't care who wins.

I agree, BUT how do we know that for sure?

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Originally posted by RJM:

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Originally posted by J.Weaver #5:

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Originally posted by RJM:
What if a player had "The Holocaust Never Happened" printed across his two eye blacks? It's just an opinion others have expressed.

Just because I don't agree with someone point of view doesn't they shouldn't be allowed to voice it.

Sure, I don't agree with that ... I would see that, maybe have a laugh, and move on. I sure wouldn't make a big deal about it. It's that person's right to make that statement. One of the wonderful things about living in this country....

I'd bet enough people, including those not Jewish would be offended to the point where placing anything on eye black would be banned.

Alright... so I brought my laptop with me... I am sure that would happen. I was just stating that I for one would respect that person's decision to voice his opinion.

Of course... that is complete blasphemy, but nonetheless, freedom or speech, right?

I don't see how putting a Bible verse is anything similar or close to similar however...? Maybe I am just being close-minded..

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God doesn't care who wins.

I agree, BUT how do we know that for sure?

Great point, PG...we don't know for sure. We've been told He cares about what we care about...but something makes me think not to the same degree.

I had to delete previous message so am reposting.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son that whoever believes shall not perish but have everlasting life.

Please with the 30 second synopsis of Christianity.There is way more to this than what can be covered on a message board.

I think this young man is a fine Christian man who lives by his beliefs. But at the same time I wouldnt want to see someone wearing a swastica on their eye black, that would offend me. I think the uniforms should be unbiased with any statements.

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Originally posted by J.Weaver #5:

As for whoever it was that raised the situation of someone putting "I hate so and so", this is completely irrelevant as that would be discriminating and based off of hate. Putting a Bible verse is nothing even close to that.

J.Weaver - I think you might be referring to me with your above quote based on what I said with this...

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If someone did have "Praise Allah" or "I hate (insert race / group)" what should be done to them? Should anything be done to them? Should the court of public opinion pass judgement?

I can't agree with you that it's irrelevant because while that is technically discrimination there is nothing illegal about saying it. So by putting on eye black it now falls under freedom of speech and would be protected just like Tebow and what he puts. Putting that is based on hate just like what Tebow is putting is based on love.

It's one thing to respect another religion with the "praise Allah" while being Christian is a lot easier to accept that someone who puts stuff that is totally against what you believe in.

Now that being said - I don't care what he puts on his eyeblack or what anyone else does either. There are bigger issues that need our attention rather than eyeblack but I won't ever tell someone they should take it off because I disagree with it.

I'm of Coach May's thinking here - it's a uniform issue and not a free speech issue.

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Originally posted by fanofgame:
I think this young man is a fine Christian man who lives by his beliefs. But at the same time I wouldnt want to see someone wearing a swastica on their eye black, that would offend me. I think the uniforms should be unbiased with any statements.

Word...

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Originally posted by PGStaff:
.... I get kind of tired of the "Superman" stuff, though...

Here is a question... Is the real Tim Tebow the one we see during interviews or the one who would get an unsportsmanlike penalty after the game was already wrapped up? Can they possibly be the same kid?
In fact, I actually thought that Percy Harvin was the difference in last nights game.

1) I am personally tired of the whole "Superman" thing myself, this kid doesn't need that kind of hype.
2) Most importantly; I don't feel that unsportmanslike penalty would change most peoples opinion of him. That penaly did not include us to use any foul lip reading, it was a simple Gator Chop as he walked away. (overzealous intensity)
3) Percy Harvin was awesome, but Tebow's conversions on the key 3rd downs in the 4th Qtr is what made him the difference maker.

You make good points PG but IMO the Tebow we see interviewed is the real Tebow and he is the real difference maker.

Now its baseball season so none of this matters!

Good post. Tebow marched them down the field in the 4th quarter against Alabama to come from behind and win...without Harvin, who is awesome. Tebow threw a touchdown pass in the 2006 championship game against Ohio State. Leach did start though.

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Originally posted by Tx-Husker:

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God doesn't care who wins.

I agree, BUT how do we know that for sure?

Great point, PG...we don't know for sure. We've been told He cares about what we care about...but something makes me think not to the same degree.

If God cares one teams wins, does that mean he doesn't care about the other team? I'm sure there are religious players on both sides of the ball.

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God doesn't care who wins.

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religion is/can be a touchy subject.and it really can cause hard feelings.


but it reminds me of the george carlin religion skit. god loves everyone,not just the good guy's.

RJM...you need to read my earlier post when this first came up. I said I don't think it concerns God who wins, I think He cares about how the game is played.

....except when Nebraska plays, then he's clearly for us

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Originally posted by PGStaff:
Here is a question... Is the real Tim Tebow the one we see during interviews or the one who would get an unsportsmanlike penalty after the game was already wrapped up? Can they possibly be the same kid?

Exactly my point about it being easier for him to be "vanilla". He's a fallible human being who has chosen to let others know of "his" faith. I have yet to see him preach before, during or after a game. He's not pushing his beliefs on anyone else. If some say he is, that's their problem, not his. It's others who have put him on a pedestal and are looking/waiting/hoping? for him to fail. I'm sure he doesn't feel like he's superman (another media hype).

We've gotten completely off track of Fungo's original post, but after all the views and posts, imagine if he wasn't wearing any.

Okay, off my soapbox now.

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but it reminds me of the george carlin religion skit. god loves everyone,not just the good guy's.

George Carlin had a stage like Tebow has....

I'm sure he regrets his life's work, though, now....

It's not enough to know of God's love and grace.....Yes, He offers it to all of us....But, we must choose to accept it from Him....If we don't, there is a very dire price to pay....It is our choice to make....

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Originally posted by BlueDog:

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but it reminds me of the george carlin religion skit. god loves everyone,not just the good guy's.

George Carlin had a stage like Tebow has....

I'm sure he regrets his life's work, though, now....

Very good post.

I don't follow Florida as closely as those of you in the state do I'm sure. But I have never heard anything said about Tebow's teammates being bothered by Tebow's approach. Only thing I have heard is he's a wonderful leader and teammate.

That probably says more about how pushy he is than anything. I'm sure Florida has a wide variety of beliefs on that team.

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If God cares one teams wins, does that mean he doesn't care about the other team? I'm sure there are religious players on both sides of the ball.

Maybe God is a football fan, maybe he's even a Gator fan! Maybe he doesn't like the Sooners. Seems like he don't care much for the Cowboys either. Do we know for sure? Only thing we know for sure... God loves the Hawkeyes! It's just not quite enough!

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Only thing we know for sure... God loves the Hawkeyes!

PG...everyone knows he likes the Huskers better than the Hawkeyes tho, at least until recently.

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Originally posted by PGStaff:
Seems like he don't care much for the Cowboys either.

I think He absolutely dispises the Cubs.......

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Originally posted by BlueDog:
George Carlin had a stage like Tebow has....

I'm sure he regrets his life's work, though, now....

Perfect example of my point. Although you are convinced of your beliefs, and would like to "help" others find their way to the same convictions and beliefs that you find benificial in your life, the condescending way you have delivered this message will likely turn many people away.

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Perfect example of my point.

You have no meaningful point, my friend....

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the condescending way you have delivered this message will likely turn many people away.

CPLZ, there is nothing condesending about God's Word.....

Death on Earth is real and short....Eternal life is real and forever.....

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the condescending way you have delivered this message will likely turn many people away.

CPLZ, there is nothing condesending about God's Word, my friend.....

Death on Earth is real and short....Eternal life is real and forever.....

That's true Bluedog but there can be condesending ways of delivering non-condesending words by very well meaning people. There are examples of that in the bible.

God does not like Hawkeye basketball! He does like the Tarheels! It is obvious!

Up and until about the last half a dozen posts or so, this thread has been highly respectful. I would ask that people not critique each other for their respective beliefs. Thanks

Again, I am pretty sure Fungo was not commenting about the content of Tebow's message - rather whether or not there should be any messages at all.

God says to love thy neighbor:

Were all neighbors

i meant no disrespect to anyone.

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Originally posted by Fungo:
The root of this question is NOT about Tim Tebow specifically and WHAT he does (other than have an eye black message), WHY he does it or WHAT message he sends. It about an athlete that is using the athletic field, the media, the fan base, to promote his belief or his point of view. Is that OK? If his belief were to promote abortion or *** marriage would you accept that? You and I approve HIS MESSAGE but his message isn't the issue.

Fungo,
To answer your original question, for college sports, or any level, I do not care what the message says I do not care for eye black with them, facial hair, long hair, tatoos exposed and neck jewelry.

Eye Black has been proven to reduce glare, but only reflective glare used in conjunction with a brim, or baseball cap?

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But, we must choose to accept it from Him....If we don't, there is a very dire price to pay

What price is that? What if a person believes in a god other than your god?

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Originally posted by Baseballdad1228:
Seeing other people's messages of belief does nothing to change mine, so I don't mind them. Cleveland Dad, however, you might have just created an atheistic bumper sticker!

Sorry to be off topic here but this leads me to wonder...

Do dyslexic atheist ever sit around and wonder if there really is a DOG?

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Originally posted by PGStaff:

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If God cares one teams wins, does that mean he doesn't care about the other team? I'm sure there are religious players on both sides of the ball.

Maybe God is a football fan, maybe he's even a Gator fan! Maybe he doesn't like the Sooners. Seems like he don't care much for the Cowboys either. Do we know for sure? Only thing we know for sure... God loves the Hawkeyes! It's just not quite enough!

I was told God is a Tar Heel. It's why the sky is Carolina blue.