Here is the recommendation for the coming 2017 season.
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
I really want to know what caused the UIL Committee to back up on the early recommendations of JV capped at 95 pitches and move all high school pitchers to 110 limit. And by what, I mean what research. And more specifically who influenced them / suggested to them they make the change? Because someone said "Let's just make it 110 for everyone". Curious if that was out of ignorance, research, influence by coaches or what.
The limit will now become accepted practice for many coaches.
Go44dad posted:I really want to know what caused the UIL Committee to back up on the early recommendations of JV capped at 95 pitches and move all high school pitchers to 110 limit. And by what, I mean what research. And more specifically who influenced them / suggested to them they make the change? Because someone said "Let's just make it 110 for everyone". Curious if that was out of ignorance, research, influence by coaches or what.
The limit will now become accepted practice for many coaches.
From the article, it looks like the original proposal was age based (14-16 vs. 17-19). I could see that being somewhat problematic -- would the opposing team know when each kid turned 17?
But I agree with you that a different standard for JV and Varsity would be easy to administer and would be better than what is currently proposed.
2019Dad posted:Go44dad posted:I really want to know what caused the UIL Committee to back up on the early recommendations of JV capped at 95 pitches and move all high school pitchers to 110 limit. And by what, I mean what research. And more specifically who influenced them / suggested to them they make the change? Because someone said "Let's just make it 110 for everyone". Curious if that was out of ignorance, research, influence by coaches or what.
The limit will now become accepted practice for many coaches.
From the article, it looks like the original proposal was age based (14-16 vs. 17-19). I could see that being somewhat problematic -- would the opposing team know when each kid turned 17?
But I agree with you that a different standard for JV and Varsity would be easy to administer and would be better than what is currently proposed.
Part of my post was the desire for someone to put their name on the change. A government proposal changed at last minute and then rubber stamped. Just looking for transparency, their reasoning.
If the pitch counts are "right", (which I understand is subjective) there is never a need to talk to a high school coach. Now there is.
As a coach who doesn't abuse pitchers, I'm more worried about the recording process than the actual pitch count. Having the home team"designate and official pitch counter" for the game seems like a method that has no accountability. What if I have my pitcher at 5 less than the home team's pitch counter? What do we do? Just tough luck for me?
It's going to be an issue at some point this year in a game that matters.
ironhorse posted:As a coach who doesn't abuse pitchers, I'm more worried about the recording process than the actual pitch count. Having the home team"designate and official pitch counter" for the game seems like a method that has no accountability. What if I have my pitcher at 5 less than the home team's pitch counter? What do we do? Just tough luck for me?
It's going to be an issue at some point this year in a game that matters.
Accountability will be a problem no doubt. There is also no mention of consequences for rule violation. Still too many unknowns. These rules still have not been approved and the JH season is already underway. The pitch chart in this article has also changed since they posted it. So who knows what it will actually be.
ironhorse posted:As a coach who doesn't abuse pitchers, I'm more worried about the recording process than the actual pitch count. Having the home team"designate and official pitch counter" for the game seems like a method that has no accountability. What if I have my pitcher at 5 less than the home team's pitch counter? What do we do? Just tough luck for me?
It's going to be an issue at some point this year in a game that matters.
I was thinking along the same lines... and what are the consequences if my count is lower than the home team count and my P exceeds the limit according to the home team count?
Will the official (home team) count be stated at the end of each inning? This would be a bit of a PITA but would probably go a long way toward avoiding bigger issues.
That was one version I read. That both coaches should get together with the "counter" every 1/2 inning to compare notes. (Not that it offered any solution to solving discrepancies.)
Because I obviously don't have enough to do during that time. Hell, I sometimes don't get out to 3b in time I'm so busy talking with players.
Well, final counts are set and season is about to start. The UIL (our governing body for athletics in TX) sent out a FAQ sheet.... I found some of these humorous.
Pitch Count “Q & A”
Do we use Pitch Counts for scrimmages? YES, all games (Scrimmages, Non-District, Tournaments, …)
Who is responsible for “Official Counter” at a tournament? The Home Team unless the Tournament Host has a different plan.
If I have a pitcher throws 45 pitches in a tournament on Thursday, can he throw 110 pitches on Saturday since he had a day off on Friday? NO, if a pitcher is fully rested at the beginning of a tournament, the pitcher can only throw 110 pitches total for the duration of the tournament.
If I have a pitcher throw 30 pitches in the 1st game of a playoff series, does he still have 110 pitches left to throw in games 2 and 3 of the playoff series? NO, if a pitcher is fully rested at the beginning of a series, the pitcher can only throw 110 pitches total for the duration of that series.
Do all coaches have the right to all pitchers’ “pitch counts”? No, this rule is not meant for gamesmanship rule; it is a safety rule, and each coach is responsible for his pitchers staying within the pitch count.
Does the DEC need a spreadsheet for all of the district teams to see during District Play? NO, this is not required, but can be agreed upon in the DEC. The DEC is responsible for the process of how they are going to keep records of the pitch count.
Does there have to be a verification form? YES, there must be an official record (with signatures) in the event of a discrepancy. This form is created by the DEC.
Does there have to be a verification form for sub-varsity games? YES, all levels must turn in a verification form.
If I do not agree with the final pitch count at the end of the game, do I have to sign the verification form? YES, each team coach must sign the verification form at the end of each contest. You can make note on the sheet that you disagree, but the form must be signed. As stated in the rule, in a discrepancy the Official Pitch Counter’s (provided by the home team) record will be used.
How do I treat games scheduled on a Mon.-Tues.-Wed. resulting from rainouts for pitchers? Back to back rescheduled games will be treated like a tournament or series.
If I have a pitcher throw 3 innings in a game that is cancelled due to weather, do we count those pitches even if the game is not registered as an official contest? YES, the athlete still threw live game pitches in the contest.
Do I count a pitch towards the official pitch count if the batter steps out and the umpire calls time for the batter? NO, as it would not be considered an official pitch.
If I have an athlete that can throw with his right and left hand, does he get his pitch count for each arm? YES, he would get the maximum (110) pitch count for both arms.
Does the Official Pitch Counter have to sit outside the dugout for Sub-Varsity Games? NO, it is only REQUIRED for Varsity games.
Can I have a parent be my official counter in the stands? YES, the home team will choose who they want to be their Official Pitch Counter. We do advise using an adult that understands the job and the importance in the accuracy of the job.
Can the DEC set parameters for violations? No, the penalty for a violation will be determined by the DEC members using the range of penalties in the UIL Constitution (Section 29).
Can I object to the umpire if I know the opposing team is using an ineligible pitcher? NO, the umpire has no responsibility to pitch count. This would go to the DEC.
If a pitcher reaches one of the pitch count thresholds during an at-bat, can he finish the at bat and revert his pitch count back to the limit of that particular threshold? YES, and this should be noted on the final verification form to account for the overage. Example: Pitcher has hit pitch number 65 during an at bat with a (2-2 count). The pitcher finishes the at bat throwing three more pitches. His total now being 68. If he is immediately removed from the mound, his pitch count total will revert back to the 46-65 threshold, thus requiring 2 days rest. In the same scenario, if a pitcher throws 20 more pitches in that particular at bat, giving them 85 pitches, then the pitcher will be required 3 days rest
Note: In tournaments, series, and back-to-backs, this exception is only allowed at the MAX (110) pitch count.
**There are some instances in which the pitch count regulations could still put undue stress on a pitchers’ arm. We strongly suggest coaches use their professional judgment in order to keep athletes out of these situations. Example: Pitcher (A) throws 65 pitches in a Tuesday District Ball Game. He is eligible to throw 110 pitches on Friday due to sitting out his 2 days rest. If he throws his max number on Friday, he would then have thrown a total of 175 pitches in a 4-day stretch.
I haven't seen the BHP question in any other states' Q&A - gonna require and additional column.
On the threshold issue during an at-bat, do any other states have this type of caveat? I know some states will allow you to finish out a batter once your reach the overall limit, but have not seen any where the threshold is met/capped during an at-bat (backing down from 68 to 65 in the example above). I sort of like that rule.
Here is the link to the Texas Private and Parochial School (TAPPS) limits which is very similar to the UIL version. My understanding however is that if a limit is exceeded during an at bat (with the exception of the 110 total to complete the at bat) that final pitch count is what is recorded. For example if coach didn't want to exceed 30 pitch limit but at bat results in 33 pitches, the 33 total is the final and would result in a days rest. I think all state versions will have some problem/conflicts to overcome and may take a few years to work out. https://tapps.biz/baseball-pitch-count/
d8 posted:Well, final counts are set and season is about to start. The UIL (our governing body for athletics in TX) sent out a FAQ sheet.... I found some of these humorous.
Pitch Count “Q & A”
Do we use Pitch Counts for scrimmages? YES, all games (Scrimmages, Non-District, Tournaments, …)
Who is responsible for “Official Counter” at a tournament? The Home Team unless the Tournament Host has a different plan.
If I have a pitcher throws 45 pitches in a tournament on Thursday, can he throw 110 pitches on Saturday since he had a day off on Friday? NO, if a pitcher is fully rested at the beginning of a tournament, the pitcher can only throw 110 pitches total for the duration of the tournament.
If I have a pitcher throw 30 pitches in the 1st game of a playoff series, does he still have 110 pitches left to throw in games 2 and 3 of the playoff series? NO, if a pitcher is fully rested at the beginning of a series, the pitcher can only throw 110 pitches total for the duration of that series.
Do all coaches have the right to all pitchers’ “pitch counts”? No, this rule is not meant for gamesmanship rule; it is a safety rule, and each coach is responsible for his pitchers staying within the pitch count.
Does the DEC need a spreadsheet for all of the district teams to see during District Play? NO, this is not required, but can be agreed upon in the DEC. The DEC is responsible for the process of how they are going to keep records of the pitch count.
Does there have to be a verification form? YES, there must be an official record (with signatures) in the event of a discrepancy. This form is created by the DEC.
Does there have to be a verification form for sub-varsity games? YES, all levels must turn in a verification form.
If I do not agree with the final pitch count at the end of the game, do I have to sign the verification form? YES, each team coach must sign the verification form at the end of each contest. You can make note on the sheet that you disagree, but the form must be signed. As stated in the rule, in a discrepancy the Official Pitch Counter’s (provided by the home team) record will be used.
How do I treat games scheduled on a Mon.-Tues.-Wed. resulting from rainouts for pitchers? Back to back rescheduled games will be treated like a tournament or series.
If I have a pitcher throw 3 innings in a game that is cancelled due to weather, do we count those pitches even if the game is not registered as an official contest? YES, the athlete still threw live game pitches in the contest.Do I count a pitch towards the official pitch count if the batter steps out and the umpire calls time for the batter? NO, as it would not be considered an official pitch.
If I have an athlete that can throw with his right and left hand, does he get his pitch count for each arm? YES, he would get the maximum (110) pitch count for both arms.
Does the Official Pitch Counter have to sit outside the dugout for Sub-Varsity Games? NO, it is only REQUIRED for Varsity games.
Can I have a parent be my official counter in the stands? YES, the home team will choose who they want to be their Official Pitch Counter. We do advise using an adult that understands the job and the importance in the accuracy of the job.
Can the DEC set parameters for violations? No, the penalty for a violation will be determined by the DEC members using the range of penalties in the UIL Constitution (Section 29).
Can I object to the umpire if I know the opposing team is using an ineligible pitcher? NO, the umpire has no responsibility to pitch count. This would go to the DEC.
If a pitcher reaches one of the pitch count thresholds during an at-bat, can he finish the at bat and revert his pitch count back to the limit of that particular threshold? YES, and this should be noted on the final verification form to account for the overage. Example: Pitcher has hit pitch number 65 during an at bat with a (2-2 count). The pitcher finishes the at bat throwing three more pitches. His total now being 68. If he is immediately removed from the mound, his pitch count total will revert back to the 46-65 threshold, thus requiring 2 days rest. In the same scenario, if a pitcher throws 20 more pitches in that particular at bat, giving them 85 pitches, then the pitcher will be required 3 days rest
Note: In tournaments, series, and back-to-backs, this exception is only allowed at the MAX (110) pitch count.
**There are some instances in which the pitch count regulations could still put undue stress on a pitchers’ arm. We strongly suggest coaches use their professional judgment in order to keep athletes out of these situations. Example: Pitcher (A) throws 65 pitches in a Tuesday District Ball Game. He is eligible to throw 110 pitches on Friday due to sitting out his 2 days rest. If he throws his max number on Friday, he would then have thrown a total of 175 pitches in a 4-day stretch.
So basically the only way a coach gets in trouble with this is if one of his own disgruntled parents (the pitcher on the bench) turns them in...lol ����
FriarFred posted:Here is the link to the Texas Private and Parochial School (TAPPS) limits which is very similar to the UIL version. My understanding however is that if a limit is exceeded during an at bat (with the exception of the 110 total to complete the at bat) that final pitch count is what is recorded. For example if coach didn't want to exceed 30 pitch limit but at bat results in 33 pitches, the 33 total is the final and would result in a days rest. I think all state versions will have some problem/conflicts to overcome and may take a few years to work out. https://tapps.biz/baseball-pitch-count/
All of these policies came from the research and direction from Dr. Andrews and the Andrews Institute. The Andrews Institute and Children's Health are TAPPs partners in sports medicine needs. Dr. Andrews has played an active role in the development of these standards, and will be involved in further development of TAPPs policies moving forward.