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Texas Tech football situation

Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
Have any of you been following this developing situation? There have been several threads on the hsbbw about parents , coaches ie helicopter parents etc.

After following this story the last couple of days I come away with alot of thoughts. First of all what was Coach Leach thinking? Secondly if Adam James dad was not Craig James son would this story have the legs it currently does now? Would the University have handled this the same way if Adam James dad was John Doe?

Tomorrow morning at 8am there will be a court hearing to see if Coach Leach can coach in the bowl game. Leach's camp is now reporting that they believe he will be fired very shortly.

Any thoughts on this story? I certainly dont have all the facts but its hard to believe there can be any justification for putting a player in an electrical closet in a totally dark room and say they were doing it for his own good. It appears they were trying to discourage kids from complaining about concussions or even reporting possible concussions. What do you think?
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Tx-HuskerTx-Husker1,000+ posts
There's a lot more to this story than we know or Tech would not have taken the dramatic action they did. It may not all be related to Adam James. Leach's vocal support of ex-KU coach Mark Mangino (fired for his treatment of players)was a bit surprising as all the details were coming out. I suspect there's a pattern of treatment at Tech the administration was not comfortable with and the James situation pushed it over the edge...when the administration was already none too pleased with Leach from the contract situation earlier in the year.

We're starting to see a pattern with coaches that have been fired of late. They seem to think they are above question and rules don't apply to them. Anyone that feels that way is signing his own pink slip...it's just a matter of time.
Last edited by Tx-Husker
Tx-HuskerTx-Husker1,000+ posts
quote:
Tech true motives


Seems pretty clear Tech wants to get rid of him. There has even been threats the whole staff would quit if Leach was fired. Would Tech really do that to a coach of 10 years, less than 1 year into his new deal, when the school has had recent success beyond any in school's history? Clearly not. There's more to the story and it's going to paint Leach in an even more negative light that his actions already have.
Infield08Infield081,000+ posts
I do not know any facts firsthand -- just those I have read in the media. According to reports, James has a reputation of being a soft primadonna, and Leach said James' dad acts like the quintessential Little League dad.

Leach can be a tough hombre; after Tech's loss to A&M earlier this season, he was quoted saying:

quote:
[The coaches failed to make] our points more compelling than their fat little girlfriends. Now their fat little girlfriends have some obvious advantages. For one thing, their fat little girlfriends are telling them what they want to hear, which is 'how great you are' and 'how easy its going to be' and we had a bunch of people who wanted to win the football game but nobody wanted to play the football game.


Of course, if medical records can prove that James had a concussion and it is confirmed that he was punished for not practicing, Leach's behavior is inexcusable.

If Leach is fired -- deservedly or not -- there will be a heckuva lot of upset fans in the Texas Panhandle.

Here is more on the story:

http://www.texasmonthly.com/2010-01-01/webextra.php

Incidentally, I find it kind of ironic that Texas Tech was the school that chose to give a second chance to bad boy Bobby Knight.
Last edited by Infield08
CPLZCPLZ1,000+ posts
Let the mud slinging begin...

The one thing I get from this so far, is that Texas Tech has no problem being mercenary. The other is that Leach has some antiquated ideas about coaching.

The first thing that strikes me is when we go back to the "Fat little girlfriends" press conference. That was obviously directed at a player or a small group of players. It's also fairly obvious, that at that point, Leach had already lost those players and was resorting to public berating as a strategy to get them back in line. Probably not a strategy that is going to endear you to administration, potential recruits, or current players. I think the most recent revelations are just supportive of the assumption that he seems like an, old school arse kickin' coach, who believes that intimidation and autocratic abusive authority are the best means to his end. While this may have been in vogue in the 40's through the 70's, what happens now is that it wins for a little bit, then everyone gets tired of it and you get fired. I would think he's soon to be unemployed and will probably get picked up as an NFL coordinator where they can keep him away from microphones.

On the other hand, Texas Tech has probably been looking the other way for some time. Unless Leach has overnight become addicted to drugs that instantly altered his personality, I think you're probably looking at some coverups similar to the Corn Husker days when Tom Osborne was winning championships. It's pretty amazing how college administrations can use their conscience like an American Express card. Pull it out when they need it, and put it in their wallet in case of emergency.

JMHO's
W workinghard100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by 06catcherdad:
Don't you all think we're doing nothing more than speculating, and that none of us know anything about the true situation, other than what we've seen in the news?

I think we should all watch this with interest, but the truth is that none of us know what happened or led up to the suspension.


C'mon 06, it's right there in black and white in the Lubbock Avalanche Journal. Geez, how much more proof do you need! Wink
Last edited by workinghard
YoungGunDadYoungGunDadHSBaseballWeb member since 2005
No way that Craig James is being a helicopter parent or little league dad in this situation. When it comes to the safety and well being our our kids, helicopter goes out the door then. It's called being a concerned parent. End of story.

I think he deserves to be suspended for the bowl game and fired.

Just when I thought I had my fill of fruitcake for the holidays, here's another one!

Coach May, I also thought about what would happen if this wasn't Craig James son. I mean, ESPN is ALL over this story and you talk about legs! Had this been John Doe's son this happen to would the son even mention it for fear of being released or benched rest of the season?
Last edited by YoungGunDad
CPLZCPLZ1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by 06catcherdad:
Don't you all think we're doing nothing more than speculating, and that none of us know anything about the true situation, other than what we've seen in the news?

I think we should all watch this with interest, but the truth is that none of us know what happened or led up to the suspension.


I would disagree. He has been out in front of cameras, i.e. The "fat little girlfriends" press conference, and speaking his peace. That's not speculation, that's witnessing. Big, HUGE, red flags went up over that one. A coach doing that in the press is a coach that has lost his team.
VD Vicarious Dad100+ posts
ESPN brought up Leach's contract. He gets $800K 'roster bonus' if he is still coach as of 12/31/09, then a seperation clause kicks in- $400K per year remaining (4, as of today) if he is terminated. By taking action now, rather than later, TTU has saved itself $2.4MM. (I don't know if Leach is paid by TT or the boosters.)

Who knows what exactly happened, but it sure looks like somebody has a thing for Leach and wants him out of there.
MTHMTH10,000+ posts
I won't go into details, but I have seen first hand how bad HS coaches can be. So I am not one of those who automatically assume the coach is always right. However, there is something about this whole situation that does not feel right.

Reading the articles linked above paints a slightly different picture of what happened. The "shed" was in fact the equipment building. The kid had been sitting out of practice, walking around the field in sunglasses. There are also questions about his effort and attitude. Just based on these articles it sounds to me like Leach got tired of him walking around practice Hollywooding and told him to go hang out in the equipment building. What's the difference in him walking around outside or standing around inside? From a medical standpoint there is absolutely none. The treating doctor apparently gave an affidavit to that effect. Was it humiliating? Probably. But that ain't no reason to fire the coach.

If you haven't read the articles linked above you should. AND you should also read the articles attached that I came across on CBS. http://dennis-dodd.blogs.cbssp...try/6270202/19238949 Young Mr. James coaches and teammates, including Graham Harrell, paint an ENTIRELY different picture.

There may be additional facts yet to come to light, but based on what I have seen so far this is absolute BS. Leach is the scapegoat, but Adam James and Craig James may end up the posterchildren for helicopter parents and spoiled brats.
C catfish342100+ posts
No coach has the right to punish or humiliate a player who's been medically diagnosed with an injury, especially a concussion. There's a reason that the diagnosis and treatment of concussions are so much in the news these days, given the long-term effects they can have on a player's life. I don't care what size the building was or if the James kid was a slacker, you can't treat players like this. All he reportedly had to do was apologize to the kid to make it go away, but he instead chose to take the school to court over the suspension. There's a guy who simply doesn't get it. I don't blame the school, and I'm also guessing that this was probably a final-straw sort of deal between TT and Leach, who had an ugly battle with the AD over his contract this past year.
VD Vicarious Dad100+ posts
RJM, I think your sig says it all, as it pertains to Adam James.

Interesting that Adam James went to Texas Tech as a baseball player, then quit the team. After talking to his dad, Craig James, Coach Leach offers a football scholarship- against the advice of position coaches who felt A James was not even a D1 player, let alone a TT receiver.

I'm sure this story is just beginning.
W Will1,000+ posts
Did some research on the player. Seems he has been down this road before. Quit baseball. complained about playing time. Was he punished or humiliated. I guess that depends on who you talk to. I read what is out there concerning the incident or non incident. Seems there is other stuff involved and it only reinforces my belief "if they want to get you they will"

I can not imagine a college player getting his father involved but in a way today I can sort of understand it because with some it is standing operating procedure.
Infield08Infield081,000+ posts
An interesting comment from a columnist (link "LEACH FIRED" above in thread) about the situation:

quote:
Let me say that I have seen and known more than one player to fake a concussion to get out of drills or practice. Because concussions must be dealt with so seriously, and they are near impossible to "measure," they are the go-to fake injury for most collegiate athletes. I'm not saying that this is the case with this particular situation, but I'm saying it's definitely possible. A player who is unhappy with the current coaching situation might do such a thing.
Three BaggerThree Bagger1,000+ posts
The "shed" was a large equipment garage with ice machinefan, and lights. The "closet" is a large conference room where visiting coaches are often interviewed. Craig James is a lying cheat who ruined one program and now just took down the only coach willing to give his spoiled brat son a chance in D1 football. Read the Emails from other players and coaches and you will see the James kid was one of the type you always have on almost any large roster you coach--a lazy know-it-all always last in everything due to lack of effort. Luckily he had daddy to enable and an AD that hates the coach. Maybe the AD didn't get enough of the credit for the turn around. When other players defend a "tough" coach against one of their own teammates it tells you all you want to know.
MTHMTH10,000+ posts
IF, I repeat IF, I understand the time frame correctly, the complaints of concussion like symptoms came AFTER he had been disciplined by the assistant coach for goofing off. Makes me wonder if he had a concussion or not. This is especially true since the diagnosis was "mild concussion." These diagnoses are usually based purely on history, and not on any objective test. In essence, the doctor gives you the benefit of the doubt based on your complaints.

Should Leach have apologized. Perhaps. But the bottom line is he did nothing to hurt this kid, other than his delicate feelings.

quote:
Originally posted by catfish342:
No coach has the right to punish or humiliate a player who's been medically diagnosed with an injury, especially a concussion. There's a reason that the diagnosis and treatment of concussions are so much in the news these days, given the long-term effects they can have on a player's life. I don't care what size the building was or if the James kid was a slacker, you can't treat players like this. All he reportedly had to do was apologize to the kid to make it go away, but he instead chose to take the school to court over the suspension. There's a guy who simply doesn't get it. I don't blame the school, and I'm also guessing that this was probably a final-straw sort of deal between TT and Leach, who had an ugly battle with the AD over his contract this past year.
C catfish342100+ posts
I understand what you're saying, and it may be true that Adam James isn't a great teammate or a hard worker (although we don't know that for sure). But if a doctor says he has a concussion, and I believe that part isn't in dispute, then a coach simply can't dismiss the diagnosis by punishing the player. Why wasn't James simply sent to the training room or locker room instead of a garage/shed to stand alone for hours? Leach was trying to send a message, but it was the wrong time and wrong way to do it. Nobody, not even a head football coach, has the absolute authority to treat players how they want, especially if that player has suffered a possible head injury. In an obvious way, he's trying to send a signal to other players that they'd be better off not reporting mild concussions and keep their butts on the field. That to me is the bigger issue. It didn't make sense that he couldn't see that. But he was too stubborn to take a step back. Even if nobody likes the James kid, you have to recognize the reality of dealing with injured players in a reasonable manner.
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by catfish342:
I understand what you're saying, and it may be true that Adam James isn't a great teammate or a hard worker (although we don't know that for sure). But if a doctor says he has a concussion, and I believe that part isn't in dispute, then a coach simply can't dismiss the diagnosis by punishing the player. Why wasn't James simply sent to the training room or locker room instead of a garage/shed to stand alone for hours? Leach was trying to send a message, but it was the wrong time and wrong way to do it. Nobody, not even a head football coach, has the absolute authority to treat players how they want, especially if that player has suffered a possible head injury. In an obvious way, he's trying to send a signal to other players that they'd be better off not reporting mild concussions and keep their butts on the field. That to me is the bigger issue. It didn't make sense that he couldn't see that. But he was too stubborn to take a step back. Even if nobody likes the James kid, you have to recognize the reality of dealing with injured players in a reasonable manner.


No doubt there is some level of revisionist history and exaggeration occurring already. The first casualty of war is the truth. And this, no doubt, will be war.

I suggest holding off on accepting either side's story as gospel for a few weeks.
Last edited by Jimmy03
C catfish342100+ posts
Jimmy is correct, of course. There are two sides to every story. Now ESPN is reporting this reaction from a few TT players. Apparently, not everyone thinks Adam James is a deadbeat or a bad teammates as being portrayed by Leach and his staff.

"I have no complaints about this decision. [Leach] put Adam [James] in a shed like an animal. Like an animal in a cage. That was bull," defensive lineman Chris Perry. "You call other players. I think it was a good decision. We have our pep back now. We practice hard this week. We had less stress this week. You know why? Because he's gone."

Said cornerback Taylor Charbonnet: The players make this team, not one coach. As Adam's friend, I didn't like it at all what [Leach] did. He was my brother and I didn't agree with it. I don't know why [Leach] did that. But I know we our fully behind [interim] coach Ruffin [McNeil]. We love him and support him."
fenwaysouthfenwaysouth10,000+ posts
Threebagger - I think you hit the nail on the head. I've read the emails from former players & coaches, Texas newspaper articles, general posts and backround information on the situation. This is a pretty straight forward situation. The kid is a bad egg. If this was a Willy Wonka movie, he would be going down the chute.

quote:
The "shed" was a large equipment garage with ice machinefan, and lights. The "closet" is a large conference room where visiting coaches are often interviewed. Craig James is a lying cheat who ruined one program and now just took down the only coach willing to give his spoiled brat son a chance in D1 football. Read the Emails from other players and coaches and you will see the James kid was one of the type you always have on almost any large roster you coach--a lazy know-it-all always last in everything due to lack of effort. Luckily he had daddy to enable and an AD that hates the coach. Maybe the AD didn't get enough of the credit for the turn around. When other players defend a "tough" coach against one of their own teammates it tells you all you want to know.
quote:
Last edited by fenwaysouth
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
Originally posted by Infield08:
Anyone remember the Vinny/Jimmy saga at the Univ. of Houston? In the end, father/son ended up looking WAY worse than Head BB Coach Raynor Noble. You have to wonder what the reputation of Craig James and his son Adam will look like when the dust settles.

Here's another interesting column:

http://www.sportingnews.com/co...get-revenge-on-leach
Vinny wasn't a visible ESPN correspondant. It will be interesting to see how ESPN covers this.
Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
The problem with reading the emails and comments from the players and then trying to draw a conclusion on what actually happened is this. Some players are going to defend the player. Some are going to defend the coach. Why? It all depends on what your relationship with the coach and player was. It has no bearing on the situation imo. In every single program in American you would have the same thing happen in a situation like this. Some players will come out and defend the team mate. Some will come out and defend the coach.

Now what is important are the facts. And we dont have all of them right now. I think its very important to remember that the Coach is held to a higher standard than the players. When players step over the line they are disciplined and should be disciplined based on the nature of the offense. Benched , suspended , disciplined , etc etc. When a coach steps over the line he has to be held to a higher standard.

There is no doubt that Leach was in the AD's cross hairs. And it appears Leach gave the AD an opportunity to pull the trigger. And he did. When all the facts come out the situation will become more clear as to what actually happened. But if your going to base your opinion on who is right and who is wrong on the players reactions your going to get fooled many times.
YoungGunDadYoungGunDadHSBaseballWeb member since 2005
Boy, you talk about spin Doctor! Leach's lawyer can sure enough spin can't he? LOL.

Calling that building a Garage? ha ha ha. Here in Georgia we called that thar thing a dadgum shed!

He kept saying that Adam had ice while in the, um, garage yet everytime it showed the ice machine the door was open and it appeared empty.

But I think the main thing that caused the investigators the biggest alarm was the running water! THAT would probably be considered torture.

But seriously, I can't help but think to myself one logical question. Where in the past 10yrs of Leach's coaching at TTU did he NORMALLY send players who had concussions?
Last edited by YoungGunDad
YoungGunDadYoungGunDadHSBaseballWeb member since 2005
I know what you're saying TR.

But I do believe over the past few years that when a player was diagnosed there was some way to treat the player, whatever it may entail. All teams had to have some sort of SOP on dealing with it. They didn't just start this year because they are now in the spotlight. Which I know isn't what you mean, I'm just saying.
Three BaggerThree Bagger1,000+ posts
Where does it say that he was send to the garage because of his concussion. This kid is dragging around the track just like he does everything else along with his classwork, so I don't see the big deal about getting him out of the "real" player's sight. He mouths back to the assistants during previous punishments, undermines the team by constantly moaning how he's mistreated. Guess he had to work for the first time in his life. The dad's constantly calling about playing time because he is after all the son of the great Craig James and shouldn't have to sit like "normal" people's kids. This is the very thing that many regulars on this site should never do. The coach should have cut him long ago: maybe that's what he should be fired for.
YoungGunDadYoungGunDadHSBaseballWeb member since 2005
_________________________________________________

Originally posted by Three Bagger:

The dad's constantly calling about playing time because he is after all the son of the great Craig James and shouldn't have to sit like "normal" people's kids.

_________________________________________________

3Bagger....I don't recall reading or hearing this accusation. If you have it, can you post it here? I'd like to read it. Thanks.

p.s. You can always go back and "edit" your post...fyi.
Last edited by YoungGunDad
Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
When did it become the coaches job to determine what to do with players that were being treated for concussions? They have a medical staff don't they? Heck I played college football many moons ago. The medical staff decided what you did. If they cleared you to practice you practiced. If not they decided what your treatment was going to be. The mere fact that he "Coach Leach" was even part of what the player was or was not doing troubles me.

It seems logical that Coach Leach was ticked that the player was not participating in drills. He stepped in and provided the player with his own treatment for the concussion. Now who else is going to step up and complain about a concussion? Who else is going to skip practice for treatment? Who else is going to avoid going to the trainers out of fear of getting the Coaches treatment?

The culture of football is to suck it up. Your not injured your just hurt. Pain is just part of the game. If you cant play with pain you cant play. Those statements were prevelant in my day. Players were very reluctant to go to the trainers out of fear of being labeled as being soft - the P word was used on a frequent basis. And some were afraid to miss practice out of fear of losing their posistion or playing time.

You can not have an enviroment where players are afraid of coming forward about injuries. You can not have an enviroment where the saftey of the players is in jeopardy. Yes you want tough guys. Yes you dont want guys sitting out that dont need to be sitting out. But the coach has to stay out of these situations. There is no reason for Coach Leach to be a part of this situation. He messed up and it came back to bite him imo.

Ask yourself this question. Why is he even a part of what the player should be doing for the concussion? Seriously?
S socalhscoach100+ posts
quote:
I won't go into details, but I have seen first hand how bad HS coaches can be. So I am not one of those who automatically assume the coach is always right.


I won' go into details, but I have seen first hand how bad HS Parents can be. So I am not one of those who automatically assume the parent is always right.

Here in lies the problem until coaches realize we don't know everything and until parents realize the program is more important than their child we will never get along.
Last edited by socalhscoach
YoungGunDadYoungGunDadHSBaseballWeb member since 2005
Coach May, I think that was what I was really trying to allude to and just said Leach. I was really referring to his trainers, medical staff, etc. who have handled these concussion diagnoses in the past. I'm sure Leach left that up to them. So that does beg the question now as to why HE all of a sudden had a say in where Adam should go?

It's apparent by everything that is coming out that he had some kind of problem with the kid because of (name your poison) and unfortunately he picked the wrong kid to hash it out on.
Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
If a kid is dogging it then deal with him in an appropriate manner for dogging it. Sit him on the bench. Extra conditioning. Cut him. Etc etc.

Concussions have always been a source of ire for football coaches. Why? Because there is no way of knowing if the kid is hurt or not. A player can say "Coach I got a headache I think I might have a concussion." Now your going to discipline him? You think he is faking it so your peeved and your going to send him a message? Your going to send the rest of the team a message? Now what happens when a kid does have a concussion but he is afraid to say anything because he doesnt want to go to the shed?

Again why is he even a part of this? Its obvious why.

I dont care if the kid was dogging it. I dont care if he was a total pain in the butt. Deal with that in an appropriate manner. What Leach did was out of line and he got what he had coming to him.
C catfish342100+ posts
Vicarious: I've not seen one story where James was cleared to practice. The concussion was why he wasn't practicing. You'd need to show me a link to make me think otherwise.

As for the folks making this a referendum on James instead of Leach, here's my question. If your son was diagnosed with a concussion by a member of the medical staff -- and even mild concussions can be very serious business -- and your son told you he was being punished for it by being forced to stand along in a garage/shed by hours by the head coach, would you be upset? I sure would. Coaches don't get to overrule doctors at the expense of a kid's health to make a point to the whole team. And when the parents and school officials called him on it, he still didn't have the good sense to back off. Sorry, he's the one responsible for his own firing, not the James family. Everybody has a boss, and through his own stubbornness, he found out today the football coach isn't bigger than the school itself.
CPLZCPLZ1,000+ posts
From everything that's come out...here's the limb I'm going out on...

Seems no one can trace the origin of the mild concussion, and players use the complaint of mild concussion to get out of practice. Not saying he didn't have one, just saying...

He was reportedly walking around practice casually in sunglasses. I'd bet he was chatting up some of the players that the coach wished were paying more attention to their task at hand.

Coach already aggravated over the kid, banishes him from practice...sends him to the garage and to a media room. To make their story more dramatic, kid/parent refers to the rooms as "shed & electrical closet." This raises serious credibility questions about the kid.

It sure seems like a Diva vs. Old School battle royale with a mix of influential and over involved, high profile parent.
Last edited by CPLZ
getagoodpitchtohitgetagoodpitchtohit100+ posts
Just a reminder to all of you who just don't know or may have forgotten just exactly who Craig James is. He knows the game and if he had an axe to grind he certainly is capable of grinding it deep. When I see him on his employer's (ESPN) big show (Sportscenter) doing an interview with his solemn voice and puppy dog eyes, I could just run for the toilet!

quote:
Originally posted by getagoodpitchtohit:
I would like to add that no one should forget that self-righteous Craig James was a prominent part of one of the dirtiest athletic programs in college sports history at SMU in the early 80's, which led to the football program being the first recipient of the NCAA's newly enacted "death penalty" in 1986.
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
I sure miss the days when the coach was the king---again I say we have gotten too soft--the kid, if in fact this all happened, was not hurt---and what about his YOU TUBE Video-- this episode has also cost his dad a payday has he has been pulled from the bowl game staff

If I ever went to my Dad complaining about a coaches punishment, I never did, he would have simply told me I probably deserved it

I want to see what the final outcome is
AntzDadAntzDad1,000+ posts
It's not uncommon for injured players to attend practice, but injured players usually don't travel with the team. Craig James made sure his 'injured' son was cleared in time to go to the bowl game by sending him to his own doctor.

The coach and trainers know all about concussions. The kid was wearing sunglasses. Photosensitivity is a symptom of concussion. (I'm sure the kid knew this)

Here's why I don't have a problem with 'the shed' part. I used to get really bad headaches. Sunlight would worsen them tenfold. It's a very uncomfortable feeling. There were many, many days I'd have traded anything- maybe even my dog- for a few hours alone, in a dark room. If this 21 year old were truly suffering from being outside, in daylight, he would not have complained to his dad about the 'treatment' he received. He would have been grateful.
YoungGunDadYoungGunDadHSBaseballWeb member since 2005
quote:


Originally posted by getagoodpitchtohit:

Just a reminder to all of you who just don't know or may have forgotten just exactly who Craig James is. He knows the game and if he had an axe to grind he certainly is capable of grinding it deep. When I see him on his employer's (ESPN) big show (Sportscenter) doing an interview with his solemn voice and puppy dog eyes, I could just run for the toilet!

quote:
Originally posted by getagoodpitchtohit:
I would like to add that no one should forget that self-righteous Craig James was a prominent part of one of the dirtiest athletic programs in college sports history at SMU in the early 80's, which led to the football program being the first recipient of the NCAA's newly enacted "death penalty" in 1986.




Getagoodpitch, I'm not a Craig James "fan" by no means just because I never thought he was that great a player in his days, IMHO. However, just because you say he was a "prominent part" of one of the dirtiest athletic programs in college sports history doesn't make it so. Yes, he was there but it was never proven that he was a participant. He wasn't even ever accused.

Go check out this bio on him on wikipedia and pay close attention to the last sentence in the first paragraph.

Craig James
Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
Players are not held to the same standards as coaches. And they shouldnt be. There was an allegation and there was an investigation. During the investigation there "other things" that came to light. Coach Leach's response to his suspension was to take the school to court in order to coach in the bowl game. Blameing the player in this case simply does not wash for me. Even if the player was acting like a clown. Players act like clowns all the time and have to be disciplined. If coaches act like clowns they usually end up getting removed from their posistion.

Did TT use this incident to get rid of a coach they had grown tired of? Was this the only reason they fired Coach Leach?

As a coach you dont get involved in the treatment of players for injuries. That is up to the people that get paid to treat players.
Last edited by Coach_May
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
It's so sad the way this thing has played out, I'll bet all sides would like to go back in time and do things differently. Both parties are to blame, IMO.

You got a player with a dad who can has the power to change things, dad should not comment on TV about what has happened), a high powered coach who wants to control things his way and probably walking a fine line in the first place, and possibly a kid who probably doesn't belong on the team to begin with. The player should have listened to his coach (but not placed in isolation but dealt with by the athletic training department), the coach to his employer, but ego got in the way for everyone. JMO.
The ones who suffer the most is the entire team, the fans and the school's athletic department.

Woody you are too funny. Big Grin
Last edited by TPM
S socalhscoach100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by workinghard:
Texas Tech - Employer
Mike Leach - Employee

Employer tells you to do something (stay away from the Bowl game)
Employee sues employer over an order. I would tend to lean toward a firing as well.
Obviously there were many other infractions that were contributing factors also.


Are you implying if you had a job and your employer was doing something to you that you felt was unfair or unjust you would wouldn't fight it?
W workinghard100+ posts
Not at all coach-
But as an employer, if I had an employee trying to sue me and it was within my right to fire him, I may exercise that right. Just as it is in his right to sue!

Having said that socalhscoach, "according to the article" there were other infractions Mr. Leach violated according to his contract. The first and foremost thing I can get fired for at my job is insubordination followed closely by attendance abuse.
The employer has the right to fire if the contract is broken, and the employee has the same rights afforded to him if he feels he was treated
unjustly and/or his contract was violated.
Last edited by workinghard
getagoodpitchtohitgetagoodpitchtohit100+ posts
YGD,

I understand what you are saying, but let's not be naive.

The slush fund started in the 70's and continued even AFTER they were put on probation for allegations. They were on probation 7 times I believe, 5 in the previous 10 years alone, before finally getting the death penalty 3 years after James left.

The charges relating to the death penalty were only able to connect hard evidence with current players at the time. I think 13 players were proven. All the previous players who didn't have hard evidence against them denied everything. But it was also proven that the slush fund and payments to players with large signing bonus', monthly payments, paying of bills, cars, apartments had occurred. This was also admitted by people all the way to the top of the school's registration.

How else does a football program at a very small private school that has been a bottom feeder since the days of Doak Walker suddenly start playing with, and beating, the big-time national powers of the SWC. In fact going undefeated and nearly winning a national championship in 1982 with James and Dickerson.

It would seem to defy belief that James and Dickerson, 2 of the top recruits at the time, choose SMU and did not receive anything as the players around them had - cash, apartments, cars, etc. - in spite of their denials at the time.
It would seem to defy belief that James and Dickerson, the 2 stars of the team, were pillars of integrity with all this going on around them.

I remeber an interview with James at the time where he was asked about it, and he said rather smugly that it was a shame, but I don't want to comment on the situation.
I remember an interview with Dickerson at the time where he was asked about it, and he laughed very arrogently and said let's talk about Eric Dickerson and the Los Angeles Rams.

So yes, I am a believer in innocent until proven guilty.
But no, I am not stupid.
GunEmDown10GunEmDown101,000+ posts
This just in from FOX34 news!!! It's called A FEW STUPID MEN!!!

Leach: I run my team how I run my team. You want to investigate me, roll the dice and take your chances. I eat breakfast 100 hundred yards away from forty-thousand Longhorn fans who are trained to kill me. So don't think for one second that you can come in here, drop Craig James’ name and make me nervous.

Myers: Cap’n Mike, did you order the Code Shed?
Liggett: You don't have to answer that question!
Leach: I'll answer the question. You want answers?
Myers: I think I'm entitled.
Leach: You want answers?
Myers: I want the truth!

Leach: You can't handle the truth! Dude, we live in a world that has football players, and those players have to be coached. Who's gonna do it? You? You? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Adam James and you curse Cap’n Mike. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that James’ shedding, while tragic, probably wins me a game. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, wins games! You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at booster parties, you want me on that field! You need me on that field! We use words like Pirate, Booty, Sword. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent coaching football. You use them as a punchline! I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a dude who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the winning seasons that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said "Thank you Cap’n Mike" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a clipboard, and call another pass play. Either way, I don't give a flip what you think you are entitled to!

Myers: Did you order the Code Shed?
Leach: I did my job, I’d do it again!!!
Myers: Did you order the Code Shed?
Leach: You're darn right I did!


That's just as good an explanation as the rest of the Media feed hogwash over this incident. We're really all just guessing anyway! The truth will come out and I'm willing to bet there is much, much more to this than any of us know.

Gotta love living in Lubbock! GED10DaD
Last edited by GunEmDown10
Dad04Dad045,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
I sure miss the days when the coach was the king---again I say we have gotten too soft--the kid, if in fact this all happened, was not hurt---and what about his YOU TUBE Video-- this episode has also cost his dad a payday has he has been pulled from the bowl game staff

If I ever went to my Dad complaining about a coaches punishment, I never did, he would have simply told me I probably deserved it

I want to see what the final outcome is


The coach is still king in college football and hoops. Kings canned for stupidity, though.

Last edited by Dad04
L lafmom5,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Dad04:
Leach got the kiss of death when Bobby Knight said he should get his big contract a couple of years ago. That's sort of like getting a foreign policy endorsement from Saddam.



I support coaches on all levels. It's a thankless job that coaches at the HS level and most colleges do for very little to next to nothing money. However, a coach does have to be held to standards... it is fair to have expectations out of them. KY fired it's basketball coach last year. Most nationally felt it was because he wasn't winning. There's no doubt that played a part in the equation. However, it had as much to do with certain behaviors off the court and his treatment of his players behind the scenes. These are young people that deserve respect, guidance, and mentoring. Not having things thrown at them, cussed out, or forced to be humiliated. There can be a fine line between discipline and abuse. Most coaches understand that.... occasionally one forgets and they should be held accountable.
Infield08Infield081,000+ posts
Trojan-skipper, below is the interview taken from workinghard's link above. It answers your question about James' dad meddling about playing time.

quote:
Former Texas Tech coach Mike Leach ripped Adam and Craig James and questioned Tech's motives for firing him in his first media interview since his firing at about 11:30 p.m. on New Year's Eve on ESPN. Leach, speaking from Crested Butte, Colorado and interviewed by Rece Davis, said he had few regrets.

Leach was fired Wednesday for his alleged mistreatment of Adam James, a sophomore receiver, and for insubordination. Leach allegedly ordered James put in a dark place twice when he couldn't practice after suffering a concussion. James' father is Craig James, an ESPN analyst and former SMU star.

Here's what was said:

On Adam James' attitude:
"I think he's lazy. I think that there's a sense of entitlement and really this isn't an independent thought on my part. It's pretty well documented in a number of statements by teammates and both of his position coaches. I can assure you that everybody in our program wants to win badly enough that it's far, far, far too important to all of them to play the best one instead of: A.) show preferential treatment or B.) deliberately cheat somebody that's got a father looking over our shoulder all the time, but also has a lot of money and influence and a big microphone."

On how he defines meddling:
"When you call coaches, you call me, call his position coaches, both of them, you call other administrators on campus or you come to practices and want to have constant discussions on your son and their playing time. Craig James required more time than all of the other parents combined."

On where he suggested James go during practice:
"I didn't. I said, find some place dark and one place was as good as the next, and that was close to the field, and plus they had the ice machine."

On what a coach's role should be in handling injured players:
"I think you defer to the doctor, which brings up a good point. I have a statement by Dr. Micheal Phy, who's the doctor that treated Adam James and diagnosed him with a concussion. The most important line on the statement says, 'according to the information given to me, no additional risks or harm were imposed on Adam by what he was asked to do.'"

On at what point he felt he'd be unable to resolve the situation with Tech:
"They suspended me and there was no explanation on that. You saw the letter on the suspension and the letter is all I've been given on the subject. I think it probably has to do with power and control... Given how hard my staff and team had worked to go to the bowl, as we have all 10 in a row, it was important to me to exercise my right to have my opportunity to play in the bowl."

On why he was fired:
"I think it has to do with they don't want to pay the money. Last year they didn't want to pay the money [in contract negotiations]. Based on popular opinion and public pressure and things like that, they got in a position where, to save face, they had to give me a competitive contract, which they did. Then I think whether it's for financial reasons or what, they decided not to follow through. Now essentially they're trying to steal the money."

On what he would do differently:
"I can't think of a great deal that I'd do differently. I don't have a lot of regrets. I go out and do the best that I can.. and just let the rest take care of itself."
Last edited by Infield08
W workinghard100+ posts
Trojan, this might be what you are referring to, but I have also read it other places.

Unfortunately this is the youth of today-so many are used to getting what they want and if they don't, then they scream and cry about it until they do. Adam James quit the Tech baseball team mid-season his freshman year because he didn't like the coaches and he wasn't getting enough playing time. As a senior in HS, no one recruited him to play college football, but his daddy made a call to Leach and Leach agreed to take him . Leach's coaching staff didn't want him and advised Leach not to take him because of his poor work ethic- his HS coach wouldn't even recommend him! It's a sad day when a University takes the word of a has been pro-football player who had been paid to play in college...and his son who doesn't want to work for his position. According to the Lubbock TV stations and newspaper, James had been released by the team physician to participate in practices, but refused, so Leach allowed him to not practice. Leach requires his injured players to attend practice, but James didn't even want to stand on the sideline, so Leach had him go into the garage near the field one day where he had access to ice for his headache. On another day, Leach had him go to the airconditioned press/media room (called an electrical closet by James.) Both days he was supervised by a licensed trainer and 2 assistant trainers. Gee-that was too much for him. He didn't like being isolated, but he didn't want to attend practice either...he probably wanted to sit in his house watching TV...and then just make the trip to SA for the bowl game. I hope he has somewhere to transfer to for next semester because I highly doubt he will be welcome at TTU. They take their football very seriously there and I think the students would choose the pirate leader over the wimpy James.
Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
Wow has anyone else seen the interview Mike Leach had with ESPN? He was asked "Describe Adam James attitude as a player." Leach went on to say many things "lazy" "sense of entitlement." Then Leach went on to describle his dad as "meddleing constantly" "called coaches constantly" "came to practice and asked coaches questions" etc etc. "Craig James required more of our attention than every parent in our program combined."

This is starting to shape up alot like CPLZ said he thought it would.
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
I guess some of the issues we talk about here at the hsbbweb about over-involved parents don't even come close to Craig James. If you believe Mike Leach who was just interviewed by ESPN, Adam James was a lazy prima donna. Worse, according to him, Craig James was a notorius meddler who was constantly calling the head coach, position coaches, and attending practices complaining about playing time. He said James' interaction with the coaches and associated complaints were more than all the other parents combined Eek
Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
I think Adam needs to find another place to play. Its hard for me to believe that he will be able to stay at TT after this. And I believe that his dad is going to suffer greatly for this as well. And I believe that there are more than a few top programs that are going to be after Coach Leach if not already.

I watched the interview and was struck by the candor that Coach Leach spoke with. It appears that the medical staff is backing Coach Leach on this one big time. It also appears that the Administration was looking for a reason to make a change and took this situation as a way of justifying it. Very sad situation for everyone.
Dad04Dad045,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Coach_May:
Wow has anyone else seen the interview Mike Leach had with ESPN? He was asked "Describe Adam James attitude as a player." Leach went on to say many things "lazy" "sense of entitlement." Then Leach went on to describle his dad as "meddleing constantly" "called coaches constantly" "came to practice and asked coaches questions" etc etc. "Craig James required more of our attention than every parent in our program combined."

This is starting to shape up alot like CPLZ said he thought it would.


If the Jameses are coach killers, Leach should have cut the kid long ago.
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