The #1 Myth About The Baseball Swing

Nice! I think you did a very good job explaining an efficient repeatable swing.

No prob, you're welcome!

Hey guys,

I've been getting a lot of good feedback on this video about the Myth about the Swing Down concept...Let me know if you can think of any other Myths about the baseball swing or questionable concepts about the swing and I will see if I can put another video together for you guys to differentiate between the Myths and the Non-Myths so you know what really works, or what the MLB players are really doing, not just what someone thinks they’re doing…which many times results in poor information being passed on to kids.

Vin

The #1 Myth About The Baseball Swing

I've never used youtube before, I'm not the most computer savvy, but I'll see if I can get my computer tech guy to change the format...Did you enjoy the video?

Vin

Vinny,

Not so fast here, you might wonder why the top batting instructors use this age old cue?

In coaching there is a classic effective trick of over extending a teach to get favorable results in difficult and previously ingrained bad mechanic.
Since we are built to drop the back side (barrel dump, Bow loop lead in) and drive up through the front side (corresponding wave Bow loop finish) batters tend to drive radically up through the ball putting it on the ground if contacted exactly at the back of the ball. Preferable contact is when the barrel vector and the ball vector have just slight miss direction with the barrel exiting just below the ball exit imparting backspin resulting in lift and carry. The Cue swing down is only intended to mean do not let you initial forwards drive force when and after you turn the corner to drop below your deltoid in a an initial dump that will have you up through the ball causing mostly top spin exit tendencies giving you ball dive not lift.

The Cue is worded incorrectly but if you try to swing down it still will still not happen but will fix the problem by way of over extending the initial drive timeline mechanic so that you can attain a straighter barrel path to the ball with as little contact upwards loop as possible.

Yardbird,

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you...I can guarantee you that Manny Ramirez arguably one of the best hitters in baseball does not speak or explain hitting in this kind of concept that you just did and I can guarantee you that he does have a slight upper cut to his swing...Check out this video on you tube of him...www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e7p6nvA6po

(In response to someone's question above I can access and click on a video in you tube, but don't know how to upload video on youtub)

Also I don't agree with everything the narrator says in the video but most of it is correct, such as the part on Manny Ramirez having a slight upper cut, which is the point I'm trying to get a cross.

Enjoy,

Vinny

manny ramirez swing analysis

Yardbird

with the exception of C. Lau which top hitting guy teaches to swing down?


(this thread should be in the hitting forum)

It's not that many people want you to actually swing downwards. It's a "swing thought" so to speak. What feels like swinging down is actually going to correct the dropping hands/backside issue for many.

But the problem is that too many kids are getting the wrong impression and are actually swinging down through the ball, not a good thing...

Vinny,

quote:

“I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you.”

This is a good thing, if you are willing to discuss it then all is good.

quote:

“I can guarantee you that Manny Ramirez arguably one of the best hitters in baseball does not speak or explain hitting in this kind of concept that you just did”

I can guarantee you that Manny Ramirez arguably could not teach a youth batter the first thing about what he is actually doing as seen in his many changes in his approach especially in his new Dodger one last year where his swing went upwards loop more from his new barrel dump.

quote:

I can guarantee you that he does have a slight upper cut to his swing”

Key word here slight in the past!

quote:

“Check out this video on you tube of him”

I have analyzed his varying approaches since he became shown.

quote:

”such as the part on Manny Ramirez having a slight upper cut, which is the point I'm trying to get a cross”

As long as this slight upper cut does not turn into a large one were OK but history has proven that this is a constant fight to maintain path to contact that the cue “swing down” to it cures by allowing you to pronate your forearm at the last 1/3 of the forwards barrel
path into contact that eliminates the excessive upper cut.

quote:

“But the problem is that too many kids are getting the wrong impression”

This is because internet diagnosers see a slight uppercut then proclaim you are supposed to voluntarily contract an uppercut and since we uppercut naturally already this belief exacerbates to much uppercut, then when they here an instructor say swing down, it means to them at contact. This was never a problem until the internet came into existence with it’s poor 30 frames a second grainy video that proved what these new Gurus believed, so now they teach voluntary uppercut, destroying swings daily.
You better rethink your game plan here?

quote:

“are actually swinging down through the ball, not a good thing”

These are only the ones that have other mechanical problems like getting out over the front side from a poor pivot. If you perform the pivot timely and correctly by keeping your weight evenly distributed and contact out in front depending on where the ball is placed in or out it is impossible to make contact with a downward strike, it is always slightly upwards even with the swing down cued. The difference is the kids that practice the downwards path create more backspin exit on the ball by pronating their forearm at contact.

JPontiac has it right!!!!!

Cball,

quote:

“with the exception of C. Lau which top hitting guy teaches to swing down?”

Defiantly not Upstein who is now finally getting it changing a few things.
The guys that have it right and do not bother to push perceived beliefs on the internet as though they have invented something that is new! Guys that are sitting on the bucket for a living and hands on teaching pros as pro roving batting coaches and many more at all levels and they all recognize that the barrel actually travels slightly up at contact with a backspin producing swing. depending on the balls altitude.
Here is one listen to what he says at the end of the video. Most understand this
http://www.youtube.com/user/Rightview1

Outstanding post Yardbird. Simply outstanding stuff. And I say that because I know it to be true from my experiences in the game. You simply hit the nail on the head.

quote:

This is because internet diagnosers see a slight uppercut then proclaim you are supposed to voluntarily contract an uppercut and since we uppercut naturally already this belief exacerbates to much uppercut, then when they here an instructor say swing down, it means to them at contact.

This is the nuttiest thing I have seen today. I guess Ted Williams is an Internet guru.

All MLB hitters use an uppercut swing. I feel sorry for anyone left that still teaches to swing down.

quote:

These are only the ones that have other mechanical problems like getting out over the front side from a poor pivot. If you perform the pivot timely and correctly by keeping your weight evenly distributed and contact out in front depending on where the ball is placed in or out it is impossible to make contact with a downward strike, it is always slightly upwards even with the swing down cued. The difference is the kids that practice the downwards path create more backspin exit on the ball by pronating their forearm at contact.

I take it back, this is the nuttiest thing.

You don't have to be any kind of guru at all. Even a 5 yo can see this is an uppercut.


Yet, many coaches still use a (level ball) 2 tee drill. What are you teaching?

/trying a blunt approach tonight

I did not take that comment the way you did Sultan. And I dont feel nearly as sorry for the instructors that teach swing down on the ball as I do the students who are being taught this as an approach.

That is what I call slight lift in the swing. Or loft as some scouts will say. Uppercut it is not. Uppercut will not produce that swing. But maybe we just have a different vocabulary.

Agree with Yardbird (ahhhh....run for the hills!) and Coach May on this. It isn't hard to see that most MLB hitters swing slightly up on the waist high pitch. There are also MLB hitters who uppercut. If we were looking at low outside fastballs we'd see a lot of MLB hitters swinging slightly down at contact, although not necessarily on purpose.

The cue of swinging down or swinging level is good for reducing an excessive uppercut as long as the instructor is careful to make sure it doesn't become a reality rather than just a cue. It was a cue that Ted Williams used when he was trying to correct an excessive uppercut in a young hitter.

My pet peeve in all this is those who are trying so hard to cut down on instructors who have been successful in teaching students with whatever cues they use simply because they can look at a student and suggest a change that will move them toward what works for that particular student. There's a big difference between knowing what the "correct" mechanics are and being a good instructor.

BTW, there are a few players, a minority to be certain, at every level who will get the best results from a level or even slightly downward swing.

It's fun to watch people rationalize that "down" really means "up". Only in baseball... we love our myths, and our myth-tellers.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
My pet peeve in all this is those who are trying so hard to cut down on instructors who have been successful in teaching students with whatever cues they use simply because they can look at a student and suggest a change that will move them toward what works for that particular student. There's a big difference between knowing what the "correct" mechanics are and being a good instructor.

CaDad, you are one of my favorites here. But, my pet peeve is when we gladly pass on these myths to hundreds of new youth coaches year after year, just so we can protect a few "hero" players or instructors who have been teaching the wrong thing. I'm a nobody, and I taught "swing down" (and worse) years ago, and I stopped doing it as soon as I realized I was wrong.

Maybe we need to host a celebrity rehab for chronic downers.

quote:

we gladly pass on these myths to hundreds of new youth coaches year after year, just so we can protect a few "hero" players or instructors who have been teaching the wrong thing.

"self teaching"

I am a believer of self teaching. Watch this video received by my son today. Robert is the SSK Promotions and Pablo is a client. He is swinging a 34.5" SSK maple bat.

http://pablosandoval48.com/index.cfm

Bob Williams

I have had a lot of problems understanding this swing down swing up argument. I guess I just always understood that the swing travels up matching the angle of the pitch before during and after contact. To get my swing moving upward, matching the downward angle of the pitch, and starting with my hands at upper chest level, I could only do one of two things. Drop my hands and swing with an uppercut or swing down. At no point did I ever believe that swinging down meant "down thru the ball". Once the top hand elbow locks to the body and the upper body opens up then the swing moves upward. Not opening up and disconnecting is the only way to keep the swing going down.

Again I always thought the swing down cue just meant "don't drop your hands". I do see though how someone that hears this, doesn't have a clue about the swing, and teaches it wrong can cause problems. I guess my hitting instructor (my dad) just knew what he was doing because as his student I always understood this.