The catcher of your choice?

I would at least wait to see what they do because they may already be thinking about pulling up the freshman. 

An appropriate way to make a point with a coaching staff is to simply soft sell the player.  For example:  "I know John is a freshman, but he's been really good in our bullpens." or "Man, John has a chance to be a really good player someday".

Things like that.  More than likely, the coach will lend further insight (either directly or in a subtle way) through that conversation.

GoHeels posted:

An appropriate way to make a point with a coaching staff is to simply soft sell the player.  For example:  "I know John is a freshman, but he's been really good in our bullpens." or "Man, John has a chance to be a really good player someday".

Things like that.  More than likely, the coach will lend further insight (either directly or in a subtle way) through that conversation.

I would just add to that how comfortable he is throwing to him and how he seems to understand the movement on his various pitches. 

It won't take long for any HS coach to figure out if a kid can't catch, not talking about receiving or framing, but simply cannot catch the ball, they'll look at all other options pretty quick, including a freshman.

Good luck. I guess it depends on the approachability of your HC. At my son's school, I think he'd get a fair hearing. But at many other high schools in our area and based on my second-hand knowledge, no way, no how would that be tolerated. 

My 2017 is a catcher and took over the V spot mid-way through his sophomore season. He's a lock to catch his senior year and he's concerned that they have zero prospects in the pipeline.  Of course, him getting virtually all the innings makes the "who will catch next year" problem even worse...

Yeah, agree with Hshuler... son should at least keep an ear to the ground to see if they know about the freshman.

 If they don't even know about him, then it's probably OK for son to, at an opportune time (probably away from other players), say something to one of the coaches like... "hey did you know so-and-so catches?  He caught some pens for me over summer and actually looked pretty good."

But if he's in the system, they should know about him.  Right?  Did the lower level coach give any indication that the V staff knows about the kid?

In any case, it's much more appropriate for son to ask if they know about him than to suggest they bring him up.

cabbagedad posted:

Yeah, agree with Hshuler... son should at least keep an ear to the ground to see if they know about the freshman.

 If they don't even know about him, then it's probably OK for son to, at an opportune time (probably away from other players), say something to one of the coaches like... "hey did you know so-and-so catches?  He caught some pens for me over summer and actually looked pretty good."

But if he's in the system, they should know about him.  Right?  Did the lower level coach give any indication that the V staff knows about the kid?

In any case, it's much more appropriate for son to ask if they know about him than to suggest they bring him up.

I kind of started with the soft approach when lower guy (sophomore coach) said "we're a little worried about catching this year. We know X can't catch at the varsity level and we're not sure about Y or Z."

I just said "yea, son has been working a lot with J in the offseason, he said he did pretty well for him."

Coach knew the kid, didn't seem to realize he was a freshman. but this is a small town where he probably saw him play when he was 8 and won't realize he's older until he shows up at practice.

But I like that idea of kind of asking rather than telling. Seems like a good compromise.

Batty67 posted:

Good luck. I guess it depends on the approachability of your HC. At my son's school, I think he'd get a fair hearing. But at many other high schools in our area and based on my second-hand knowledge, no way, no how would that be tolerated. 

My 2017 is a catcher and took over the V spot mid-way through his sophomore season. He's a lock to catch his senior year and he's concerned that they have zero prospects in the pipeline.  Of course, him getting virtually all the innings makes the "who will catch next year" problem even worse...

Honestly, part of our problem is that my 2018 is (according to coaches who saw him catch for a travel team) the best catcher on the HS team. But he's also one of the best pitchers. The two went together okay in little league, not so much now. And the situation you're describing is exactly where we are, with no one solid in the pipeline.

Iowamom23 posted:

 

Iowamom:

When I saw the title of your post, my answer was the one with the weakest arm! (I am the father of a player who likes to run)

That senior more than likely will be the starting catcher.  Even if they bring up the freshman, at some point the senior is going to handle the duties if not at least half the time.  So he needs to have a 1 on 1 with the senior, suggest he attend a catching camp and invest in a thumb guard like the evoshield.  

hsbaseball101 posted:

That senior more than likely will be the starting catcher.  Even if they bring up the freshman, at some point the senior is going to handle the duties if not at least half the time.  So he needs to have a 1 on 1 with the senior, suggest he attend a catching camp and invest in a thumb guard like the evoshield.  

I disagree if he's completely missing balls. I would rather have a good catcher than a good SS because the SS may never get a ball but the catcher will be involved in every pitch. 

hshuler posted:

hsbaseball101 posted:

That senior more than likely will be the starting catcher.  Even if they bring up the freshman, at some point the senior is going to handle the duties if not at least half the time.  So he needs to have a 1 on 1 with the senior, suggest he attend a catching camp and invest in a thumb guard like the evoshield.  

I disagree if he's completely missing balls. I would rather have a good catcher than a good SS because the SS may never get a ball but the catcher will be involved in every pitch. 

One bullpen doesn't make a catcher/pitcher relationship.  It can take awhile for the catcher to understand the intricacies of the pitcher's movement.  What is going to happen, when is it going to happen.  Also, if the bullpen is indoors, all bets are off on being able to see the ball well.  And who know, maybe his girlfriend got rid of him.  Give it a few sessions, start a conversation with the catcher, and see what happens. 

Honestly, I would not give any unsolicited advice to any of the coaches, soft sell or otherwise. It sounds like the coaches are more then aware of the problem and potential solutions. 

From a purely political point of view how will the senior catcher's parents feel when and if they find out you or your son recommended/promoted the freshman?   The less discussion you have with the coaches and/or other parents, the better, same for your son. 

You don't want to be seen as meddling in the other players prospects, he can lose the job on his own if he can't catch your son.

Golfman25 posted:

hshuler posted:

hsbaseball101 posted:

That senior more than likely will be the starting catcher.  Even if they bring up the freshman, at some point the senior is going to handle the duties if not at least half the time.  So he needs to have a 1 on 1 with the senior, suggest he attend a catching camp and invest in a thumb guard like the evoshield.  

I disagree if he's completely missing balls. I would rather have a good catcher than a good SS because the SS may never get a ball but the catcher will be involved in every pitch. 

One bullpen doesn't make a catcher/pitcher relationship.  It can take awhile for the catcher to understand the intricacies of the pitcher's movement.  What is going to happen, when is it going to happen.  Also, if the bullpen is indoors, all bets are off on being able to see the ball well.  And who know, maybe his girlfriend got rid of him.  Give it a few sessions, start a conversation with the catcher, and see what happens. 

I kind of started with the soft approach when lower guy (sophomore coach) said "we're a little worried about catching this year. We know X can't catch at the varsity level and we're not sure about Y or Z."

Good points but I was assuming the "X" mentioned in the catching equation was the senior. If my assumption is correct, "we know" is a pretty strong statement. 

It's out of your control. It's out of your son's control. There are other variables that go into the coach's decision others won't see.

Our high school was left in a catcher shortage after a graduation. The JV player and his dad assumed he was the incumbent catcher. They flipped out when he wasn't. The coach converted a second basemen with good hands to catcher as a senior. It was rough at first. But as the season wore on the kid became a competent catcher. He turned out to be better than the JV player that didn't get moved up. Plus it allowed a player with a bat to play second.

How many catchers does a HS team usually utilize?  2, 3?  If he doesn't pitch can they get by with one? 

2020.2023dad posted:

How many catchers does a HS team usually utilize?  2, 3?  If he doesn't pitch can they get by with one? 

There are several areas where depth at C is almost a necessity... catching pens, IF drills where C's are active, pre-game when a C is handling I/O's and another is warming the starter, playing tourneys with four games in two days, etc..  but most importantly...

A team will have several pitchers.  You must be at least three or four deep with decent P's to compete.  Aside from that, the catcher position is so unique and so important, it is the one spot where you cannot afford to have no decent backup without risk of being quite a bit less competitive as a team if #1 goes down.  A middle IF can slide over or to 3B.  It doesn't take long to learn 1B and any good player can be quickly ramped up to play a decent OF.  But a good C takes a lot of time to develop and takes a special breed.  He is actively involved in every pitch, far more so than any other position other than P.  It is a very tenuous position being a competitive team with a good C and a big drop off to #2.

cabbagedad posted:

2020.2023dad posted:

How many catchers does a HS team usually utilize?  2, 3?  If he doesn't pitch can they get by with one? 

There are several areas where depth at C is almost a necessity... catching pens, IF drills where C's are active, pre-game when a C is handling I/O's and another is warming the starter, playing tourneys with four games in two days, etc..  but most importantly...

A team will have several pitchers.  You must be at least three or four deep with decent P's to compete.  Aside from that, the catcher position is so unique and so important, it is the one spot where you cannot afford to have no decent backup without risk of being quite a bit less competitive as a team if #1 goes down.  A middle IF can slide over or to 3B.  It doesn't take long to learn 1B and any good player can be quickly ramped up to play a decent OF.  But a good C takes a lot of time to develop and takes a special breed.  He is actively involved in every pitch, far more so than any other position other than P.  It is a very tenuous position being a competitive team with a good C and a big drop off to #2.

Thanks for the response cabbage. I have coached enough youth baseball (8, 9, and 11-14u) travel to know how important the position is in general.   All of the teams that we've been on that have struggled have had issues at the position and the great teams we've been a part of were solid behind the dish.  Question really should have been how many catchers  to expect on a JV or Varsity Team seeing game action. When I look at college rosters I see  only about 2-4 listed as catcher.  

2020.2023dad posted:

cabbagedad posted:

2020.2023dad posted:

How many catchers does a HS team usually utilize?  2, 3?  If he doesn't pitch can they get by with one? 

There are several areas where depth at C is almost a necessity... catching pens, IF drills where C's are active, pre-game when a C is handling I/O's and another is warming the starter, playing tourneys with four games in two days, etc..  but most importantly...

A team will have several pitchers.  You must be at least three or four deep with decent P's to compete.  Aside from that, the catcher position is so unique and so important, it is the one spot where you cannot afford to have no decent backup without risk of being quite a bit less competitive as a team if #1 goes down.  A middle IF can slide over or to 3B.  It doesn't take long to learn 1B and any good player can be quickly ramped up to play a decent OF.  But a good C takes a lot of time to develop and takes a special breed.  He is actively involved in every pitch, far more so than any other position other than P.  It is a very tenuous position being a competitive team with a good C and a big drop off to #2.

Thanks for the response cabbage. I have coached enough youth baseball (8, 9, and 11-14u) travel to know how important the position is in general.   All of the teams that we've been on that have struggled have had issues at the position and the great teams we've been a part of were solid behind the dish.  Question really should have been how many catchers  to expect on a JV or Varsity Team seeing game action. When I look at college rosters I see  only about 2-4 listed as catcher.  

 

 

 

We had two catchers on varsity roster last year. Only one saw significant game time (he was a rock). This year there is the potential of three — two seniors, neither of whom are great, and a junior, who coaches don't like because while he's a competent catcher, he's a huge issue in the dugout. So I would say you'd want at least two if possible?

Iowamom23 posted:

2020.2023dad posted:

cabbagedad posted:

2020.2023dad posted:

How many catchers does a HS team usually utilize?  2, 3?  If he doesn't pitch can they get by with one? 

There are several areas where depth at C is almost a necessity... catching pens, IF drills where C's are active, pre-game when a C is handling I/O's and another is warming the starter, playing tourneys with four games in two days, etc..  but most importantly...

A team will have several pitchers.  You must be at least three or four deep with decent P's to compete.  Aside from that, the catcher position is so unique and so important, it is the one spot where you cannot afford to have no decent backup without risk of being quite a bit less competitive as a team if #1 goes down.  A middle IF can slide over or to 3B.  It doesn't take long to learn 1B and any good player can be quickly ramped up to play a decent OF.  But a good C takes a lot of time to develop and takes a special breed.  He is actively involved in every pitch, far more so than any other position other than P.  It is a very tenuous position being a competitive team with a good C and a big drop off to #2.

Thanks for the response cabbage. I have coached enough youth baseball (8, 9, and 11-14u) travel to know how important the position is in general.   All of the teams that we've been on that have struggled have had issues at the position and the great teams we've been a part of were solid behind the dish.  Question really should have been how many catchers  to expect on a JV or Varsity Team seeing game action. When I look at college rosters I see  only about 2-4 listed as catcher.  

 

 

 

We had two catchers on varsity roster last year. Only one saw significant game time (he was a rock). This year there is the potential of three — two seniors, neither of whom are great, and a junior, who coaches don't like because while he's a competent catcher, he's a huge issue in the dugout. So I would say you'd want at least two if possible?

Yeah, what we strive for at V - a starter, a competent backup that would get some innings (maybe 10-20%) and an emergency guy that is getting some bullpen and occasional practice reps, in the event that one of the other two go down.  

At JV, we have identified three or four guys who have interest and/or some level of competence at the position.  I have instructed JV coach to give the best three roughly even PT - you never know who will still be in the program next year and the year after and if you put all efforts and innings toward the best guy, you can be left in a bad place.

Realistically, at the V level, it is pretty rare that we see an opponent role out their #2 guy behind the plate... maybe 10% of the time.  

Unless your coach is an absolute buffoon, he should be willing to listen if your son compliments a younger guy for his abilities and especially for his work ethic - only guy to consistently work with your son, right?  All the more, given that your son is one of his leaders. 

hsbaseball101 posted:

That senior more than likely will be the starting catcher.  Even if they bring up the freshman, at some point the senior is going to handle the duties if not at least half the time.  So he needs to have a 1 on 1 with the senior, suggest he attend a catching camp and invest in a thumb guard like the evoshield.  

I wouldn't bet on that. A senior may get the first shot, but if he doesn't perform I wouldn't be surprised to see an underclassman take his spot.

When my son made varsity as a sophomore (coach never looks at freshman) he displaced the starting catcher who was a senior - too many passed balls by the senior in practice and my son had a better arm and hit better.  The senior took it in stride - he knew my son was a better athlete.  Coach did work the senior into the lineup - usually when the team was well ahead or it was a weak opponent.  Even on senior night he sat the bench until the late innings (team was in the midst of competing for the last playoff spot).

The senior was a team player.  He spent most practices and games working the bullpen.  If memory serves he received the Coach's Award that year.

As far as I remember my son's HS teams always had 2-3 catchers.  One was the primary starter who played 85-90% of the time.  Then a backup and then a strictly bullpen catcher.  In college there was 3-4.  The top two would rotate starting though the #1 catcher got slightly more starts.  Then there were two bullpen catchers.

I agree with CD.  A MIF can be converted to 3B or 1B relatively easily, but it takes time to develop a good catcher.  

There is no need to say anything. The coaches are going to see who gives them the best opportunity to win. The coaches will listen to the comments the pitchers make. They will observe performance in practice and of course watch the bull pens. And the upperclassman will voice their opinions to the coaches. If its clear it will be clear. These things work themselves out. Players are going to give their opinion to their coaches. And sometimes a coach will go to his upperclassman and say "What do you think about Jimmy?" "Do you think he can handle it?" "Would you be comfortable with him?" What you don't want is a bunch of guys dividing the team and creating issues. Let it play out. If the coach is so incompetent that he can't see the obvious then there are bigger issues within this program than a guy playing in front of a better option.

FoxDad posted:

hsbaseball101 posted:

That senior more than likely will be the starting catcher.  Even if they bring up the freshman, at some point the senior is going to handle the duties if not at least half the time.  So he needs to have a 1 on 1 with the senior, suggest he attend a catching camp and invest in a thumb guard like the evoshield.  

I wouldn't bet on that. A senior may get the first shot, but if he doesn't perform I wouldn't be surprised to see an underclassman take his spot.

 

This senior's only competition is a freshman and this school appears to keep freshman on the freshman team. For safety reasons I would have the freshman catch.  85mph is serious heat.  Only seasoned catchers would be able to handle that.  But it's not my team.  

We have 4 guys trying out for catcher this year.  The two best guys at catching, 1 has issues with grades and the other has behavior issues.  I already know we're not keeping either of them, but we don't have a fast pitcher so those guys aren't really  needed.  

Freshman catcher would have to be an absolute stud!  I just have a hard time believing that an average junior/senior catcher wouldn't out perform a stud freshman catcher as a whole.  Managing the game, managing runners, offensively, leadership etc....  Even if the freshman is the best receiver of your son's velocity, catching is so much more.  Also, what are the chances that the senior makes the adjustments?  Not a lot of catchers get the chance to ever receive 85 + FB's.    How does the senior catcher perform with the average velocity speeds?  

FoxDad posted:

hsbaseball101 posted:

That senior more than likely will be the starting catcher.  Even if they bring up the freshman, at some point the senior is going to handle the duties if not at least half the time.  So he needs to have a 1 on 1 with the senior, suggest he attend a catching camp and invest in a thumb guard like the evoshield.  

I wouldn't bet on that. A senior may get the first shot, but if he doesn't perform I wouldn't be surprised to see an underclassman take his spot.

When my son made varsity as a sophomore (coach never looks at freshman) he displaced the starting catcher who was a senior - too many passed balls by the senior in practice and my son had a better arm and hit better.  The senior took it in stride - he knew my son was a better athlete.  Coach did work the senior into the lineup - usually when the team was well ahead or it was a weak opponent.  Even on senior night he sat the bench until the late innings (team was in the midst of competing for the last playoff spot).

The senior was a team player.  He spent most practices and games working the bullpen.  If memory serves he received the Coach's Award that year.

As far as I remember my son's HS teams always had 2-3 catchers.  One was the primary starter who played 85-90% of the time.  Then a backup and then a strictly bullpen catcher.  In college there was 3-4.  The top two would rotate starting though the #1 catcher got slightly more starts.  Then there were two bullpen catchers.

I agree with CD.  A MIF can be converted to 3B or 1B relatively easily, but it takes time to develop a good catcher.  

When my son went through the same situation (replaced upperclassman, a junior, mid-way his sophomore year), the upperclassman did NOT handle it well. His older brother and uncle were the starting catchers at our high school during the previous decade. So perhaps he felt it was "his". 

My son got the start for a wild LHP (likely to be our best pitcher this Spring), he had a great game and also hit well. The upperclassman went 0-fer as DH with a few bad SOs. So my son got the nod the next game with same results. Then by the third start the upperclassman took it personally and it showed at the plate and in the dugout. That was that. He decided not to play his senior year and it really hurt the team.

hsbaseball101 posted:

We have 4 guys trying out for catcher this year.  The two best guys at catching, 1 has issues with grades and the other has behavior issues.  I already know we're not keeping either of them, but we don't have a fast pitcher so those guys aren't really  needed.  

Our ace pitcher during that time period (same class as my son) was a 6'4" RHP throwing in the low 90's (he was drafted in the 6th round right out of HS).  A catcher who could handle his FB (and wild pitches at times) was a necessity. The coach couldn't just put anyone back there.

My 2018 is also the top pitcher for his high school and sits 87- 88.  He also has a wicked cutter that he has been working on and the catcher he has had since he was 9 was told this fall that he can no longer catch if he wants to keep his knees.  So the past 4 weeks he has been working with the new top catcher at his high school so that they are on the same page when the season starts.  If your son has a great relationship with his hs coach then he can surely talk to him about the catching situation.  But he may also want to be proactive and start grabbing the senior and keep working with him.  The amount of improvement between week 1 and week 4 on that pitcher/catcher relationship and the catcher being able to anticipate where the pitch is going has been impressive.   By game 1 on March 17 they should be in good sync.