Halfmoon and 20Dad,
I just wanted to also say Thank You again for being willing to share. Though I haven't walked exactly in your shoes, and hope and pray I don't have to, it has certainly hit much closer to home in the past year, and I understand better. Bless you, and I hope that 2007 is a year of progress and a bright future.
Julie
quote:You said something that I was hoping you might elaborate on - you said you didn't see the signs, but that if you had looked closer you would have. Would you mind talking about what some of those signs are that you now know you missed - I know it would be helpful to me and maybe also to others. We practice all the usual stuff - know where they're going and who they're going with, know who their friends are, communicate with other parents about parties, wait up and look 'em over good when they come home, keep track of how much money passes through their hands... could we still be missing something?
mythreesons - great post from a fine and obviously conscientious parent. The above quote and question caught my eye. I believe that no matter how big we make that list to check off as parents, that kids are still smart enough to circumvent it if THEY want to.
Don't get me wrong, doing the things you suggest and possibly more is what good parents should do but that still may not be enough. Halfmoon may have something more to offer now in hindsight, but at some point the recriminations and guilt need to stop in order for healing to begin. Sometimes parents beat themselves up for the things they did not do, yet there is another - the child who is also responsible. Sometimes, bad things happen to good parents and good kids sometimes sprout from rotten parents - only God knows why.
Mythreesons - great post! I think you're right.... often our kids are much more aware of what's happening in the world than we are. A great place to start searching what's going on in their lives and those of other kids in our areas is simply by starting a conversation on the subject. Thanks for that post.
Cleveland-
I do understand your point about kids being able to hide undesireable behavior, but some stories I've heard make me think that often they're "hiding in plain sight". I've talked about the drug/drinking issue with a number of baseball parents, and you'd be amazed how many of them proclaimed that THEIR child had never seen or heard of anyone who drank, did drugs or engaged in sexual activity. One mom was particularily vociferous in her support of her son's clean lifestyle... my son told me that her son actually has the biggest bong collection in the county on display in his bedroom, which he shows off to anyone who cares to see it. We've known other kids who were arrested for DUI or busted at parties who's parents STILL swear "my kid doesn't drink/use. He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time (or with the wrong person, or...)". There was a student at our high school who was hauled out in an ambulance after OD'ing on a home cooked version of something made out of a decongestant. His parents stormed the office, demanding to know who had brought the drugs to school and passed them around to other kids... it was their son. He had made the concoction at home at their kitchen table.
Now while these are all behaviors that I'm sure I wouldn't miss, I'll bet there are things that my kids could get away with that I wouldn't pick up on, although I like to believe I'm still smarter than they are! (ha!) Most parents take pride in "trusting" their kids - we tell our kids "we'll start trusting YOU when we know you can trust YOURSELF." Or as Ronald Reagan was fond of saying "Trust, but verify".
My suggestion - get your high school (or better yet middle school) to bring in the local drug enforcement agency to do a parent education night and get all your parent friends to attend. You'll be amazed at what's out there that your kids can get their hands on. The stuff is cheap, accessible and almost impossible to recognize if you haven't seen it before. I went through this type of training for my job and it was a real eye opener, to say the least.
I do understand your point about kids being able to hide undesireable behavior, but some stories I've heard make me think that often they're "hiding in plain sight". I've talked about the drug/drinking issue with a number of baseball parents, and you'd be amazed how many of them proclaimed that THEIR child had never seen or heard of anyone who drank, did drugs or engaged in sexual activity. One mom was particularily vociferous in her support of her son's clean lifestyle... my son told me that her son actually has the biggest bong collection in the county on display in his bedroom, which he shows off to anyone who cares to see it. We've known other kids who were arrested for DUI or busted at parties who's parents STILL swear "my kid doesn't drink/use. He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time (or with the wrong person, or...)". There was a student at our high school who was hauled out in an ambulance after OD'ing on a home cooked version of something made out of a decongestant. His parents stormed the office, demanding to know who had brought the drugs to school and passed them around to other kids... it was their son. He had made the concoction at home at their kitchen table.
Now while these are all behaviors that I'm sure I wouldn't miss, I'll bet there are things that my kids could get away with that I wouldn't pick up on, although I like to believe I'm still smarter than they are! (ha!) Most parents take pride in "trusting" their kids - we tell our kids "we'll start trusting YOU when we know you can trust YOURSELF." Or as Ronald Reagan was fond of saying "Trust, but verify".
My suggestion - get your high school (or better yet middle school) to bring in the local drug enforcement agency to do a parent education night and get all your parent friends to attend. You'll be amazed at what's out there that your kids can get their hands on. The stuff is cheap, accessible and almost impossible to recognize if you haven't seen it before. I went through this type of training for my job and it was a real eye opener, to say the least.
mythreesons,
Both of your posts are excellent! Thank you.
Both of your posts are excellent! Thank you.
quote:get your high school (or better yet middle school) to bring in the local drug enforcement agency to do a parent education night and get all your parent friends to attend.
This should be a mandatory parent presentation the year that a kid leaves elementary school. That is probably the time that a parent should be aware of the "potential" problems that they might run into, and also one of the last years they have full control over the kids activities. That first year of middle school there are dances, new friends from different schools, and many times a kids first taste of independence.
Besides, after that year parents also change. I feel they then fall into 3 catagories.
1. Those who stay involved
2. Those who think they stay involved but "look the other way" and refuse to believe the truth
3. Those who "turn their back" and blame it on others, or maybe don't even care to begin with.
Not only did I want to understand the changes in kids, but also the changes in parents. I grew up in the "Wow"
I'm not proud of that part of my past and don't go around boasting about it. But, when I go to my grave I will be satisfied that I think I turned my "wrong" into positive learning experience for my kids and thier friends. This was probably the hardest admission in my life. In the end I couldn't lie about it and still have all of this experience to fall back on. Those lies and deception are where the problems start and as parents we sometimes feel that our kids should "do as we say, not as we did". It's said that we should nip the problem at the source, unfortunatly that source may be looking us in the mirror.
Being fairly close to Jeff Allison, I agree with TR and hate seeing Jeff's name brought up so negatively over and over.
But, I think lafmom (I believe) brought up a great point. Some are just meant to be an example for others. (Or something like that) In a perfect world Jeff will not only beat this, but will educate and help others. Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world. The potential end result is frightening.
Learning from the mistakes of others is much better than learning from your own mistakes. It seems so easy, yet it is so very hard!
This is a great thread, with outstanding people who care about others and some true life lessons. I know I will read every single post until this thread dies out.
For what it's worth, here is what someone once told me about this subject and others. Often parents don't look directly into the eyes of their children. If they did, they would be more alert when something is wrong or different. The eyes don't lie! I used this a lot in scouting and recruiting. The eyes can be very revealing and speak volumes.
Doubt we will ever get rid of this problem, but it is well worth our while trying to put a dent into it! For those who have shared their tough stories... Thanks for the education and please keep teaching the rest of us.
But, I think lafmom (I believe) brought up a great point. Some are just meant to be an example for others. (Or something like that) In a perfect world Jeff will not only beat this, but will educate and help others. Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world. The potential end result is frightening.
Learning from the mistakes of others is much better than learning from your own mistakes. It seems so easy, yet it is so very hard!
This is a great thread, with outstanding people who care about others and some true life lessons. I know I will read every single post until this thread dies out.
For what it's worth, here is what someone once told me about this subject and others. Often parents don't look directly into the eyes of their children. If they did, they would be more alert when something is wrong or different. The eyes don't lie! I used this a lot in scouting and recruiting. The eyes can be very revealing and speak volumes.
Doubt we will ever get rid of this problem, but it is well worth our while trying to put a dent into it! For those who have shared their tough stories... Thanks for the education and please keep teaching the rest of us.
Thanks for your great post mythreesons....I've only got a few minutes to respond right now, but our deadliest mistake was a bit of what RZ1 posted as #2. It sounds horrible now but in doing a bit of forensic on how I operated, a part of me must not have wanted to see. We've made other mistakes as well. Our greatest rationalization was that he is a very high performing athlete. How could he possibly have drug issues? My wife and I have a fabulous relationship after 30 years. We have a very stable household that is peaceful and loving. Sometimes we think that is enough. Her parents were both alcoholics and mine were divoriced. I'm chuckling to myself right now because I am not a very open person about my personal life, however this is critically important to somebody....I am absolutely sure of it. Just because you love your wife or husband and everyone gets along and your son or daughter seems to be doing ok, you can't let your guard down.
One more thing. Until about 7 or 8 years ago we maintained an active social lifestyle that included many parties that included drinking. If I had it to do over again, I would have to re-evaluate. Now I know home-body non-drinkers whose kids have had issues too, but you've got to examine everything. Raising kids is absolutely the worlds hardest job. Gotta go hold up the economy....thanks to all for your understanding and great comments....
One more thing. Until about 7 or 8 years ago we maintained an active social lifestyle that included many parties that included drinking. If I had it to do over again, I would have to re-evaluate. Now I know home-body non-drinkers whose kids have had issues too, but you've got to examine everything. Raising kids is absolutely the worlds hardest job. Gotta go hold up the economy....thanks to all for your understanding and great comments....
quote:Raising kids is absolutely the worlds hardest job.
Absolutely. And it is true what they say, that the bigger they get, the bigger the problems (and heartache).
The High School my son attends had one of these "education nights" earlier this year. The things we observed that night were shocking. Maybe the most shocking of all was the fact that in a school of 2,500+ students only about 60 parents were there.quote:Originally posted by mythreesons:
My suggestion - get your high school (or better yet middle school) to bring in the local drug enforcement agency to do a parent education night and get all your parent friends to attend. You'll be amazed at what's out there that your kids can get their hands on. The stuff is cheap, accessible and almost impossible to recognize if you haven't seen it before. I went through this type of training for my job and it was a real eye opener, to say the least.
Jason
Now it gets even more complicated when the latest statistics reveal that the increase in drug abuse among teenagers is not in the illegal drugs but those that every one of us has in our house.
Left over pain medicine, cold medicine, cough medicine, aspirin, ritalin and allergy medicine. Add to that the increase in glue and gas huffing and the medicine cabinet and the garage become as insidious as the street corner pusher. Raising kids is not only the hardest job but becomes harder every day. Every thing around them pushes them to grow up faster. Television, music, peers and yes even sports. I'm glad I am not a kid today, despite all the advantages they seem to have. I long for simpler times and places to raise my kids.
Left over pain medicine, cold medicine, cough medicine, aspirin, ritalin and allergy medicine. Add to that the increase in glue and gas huffing and the medicine cabinet and the garage become as insidious as the street corner pusher. Raising kids is not only the hardest job but becomes harder every day. Every thing around them pushes them to grow up faster. Television, music, peers and yes even sports. I'm glad I am not a kid today, despite all the advantages they seem to have. I long for simpler times and places to raise my kids.
quote:Every thing around them pushes them to grow up faster.
quote:I long for simpler times
quote:in a school of 2,500+ students only about 60 parents were there.
I hear ya!!!!
tr and pg
you are right about dragging jeff through the mud, enough is enough. that said you could put anyone of thousands of kids name's to start this thread. this isn't relly about him .but i did use him as an example for my son.it didn't work but it was useful.
i guess the point is it can happen to anyone. from any back ground. the really sad thing is the adults that are involved in these things. and the drugs they get. we have a lot of grand parents that live with their familys in the area. they have quite a variety of presciption drugs for various illness's. kids start taking them ,when no one notices 2 pills turns into a bottle. elderly people tend to be forgetful and who would think your kids would take them?
i give a halfmoon my respect for even bringing his situation to light here. that is a very difficult bridge to cross. as parents in we want to take the blame ,afterall we are raising our kids to be good people. reality is they know right from wrong,and they have good manners. every law enforcement person,judge ,lawyer. all commented how polite my son was,very respectfull. then how can he do this? i didn't intend to air my dirty laundry on this site. but i felt that halfmoon should know he isn't the only one fighting this deamon,and maybe it helps making people aware of this problem. even among athletes.
kids are just about the only thing we get with out instructions. we do the best we can,then we learn some stuff and try to do even better.
you are right about dragging jeff through the mud, enough is enough. that said you could put anyone of thousands of kids name's to start this thread. this isn't relly about him .but i did use him as an example for my son.it didn't work but it was useful.
i guess the point is it can happen to anyone. from any back ground. the really sad thing is the adults that are involved in these things. and the drugs they get. we have a lot of grand parents that live with their familys in the area. they have quite a variety of presciption drugs for various illness's. kids start taking them ,when no one notices 2 pills turns into a bottle. elderly people tend to be forgetful and who would think your kids would take them?
i give a halfmoon my respect for even bringing his situation to light here. that is a very difficult bridge to cross. as parents in we want to take the blame ,afterall we are raising our kids to be good people. reality is they know right from wrong,and they have good manners. every law enforcement person,judge ,lawyer. all commented how polite my son was,very respectfull. then how can he do this? i didn't intend to air my dirty laundry on this site. but i felt that halfmoon should know he isn't the only one fighting this deamon,and maybe it helps making people aware of this problem. even among athletes.
kids are just about the only thing we get with out instructions. we do the best we can,then we learn some stuff and try to do even better.
Halfmoon and 20dad,
I sincerely hope things work out for the best and appreciate your willingness to share your thoughts so honestly and openly.
I hope that these few paragraphs will give you some optimism.
I grew up in a drug infested environment. There is nothing today that even comes close to startling me. Of my best high school buddies - about 20 of them - 8 were dead before the age of 20.
And the rest were headed the same way. Including my brother.
I always thought - as their friend - that I should try to help them any way I could. Calling them names wasnt one of those alternatives. And continually dragging their names up as "examples" was also - IMO - at best "muckraking" and at worst - "perversely satisfying" to some.
For the ones who did make it through - they became good husbands - and wives - and they have enjoyed a fulfilling life. And they remain my closest friends.
I never thought about giving up on any of them - and in many cases - it was well worth the time and effort spent helping them in any way I could.
I hope that you can keep your chin up - tell them the truth always - and provide the best support you can for them.
My best to you both during these challenging times.
I sincerely hope things work out for the best and appreciate your willingness to share your thoughts so honestly and openly.
I hope that these few paragraphs will give you some optimism.
I grew up in a drug infested environment. There is nothing today that even comes close to startling me. Of my best high school buddies - about 20 of them - 8 were dead before the age of 20.
And the rest were headed the same way. Including my brother.
I always thought - as their friend - that I should try to help them any way I could. Calling them names wasnt one of those alternatives. And continually dragging their names up as "examples" was also - IMO - at best "muckraking" and at worst - "perversely satisfying" to some.
For the ones who did make it through - they became good husbands - and wives - and they have enjoyed a fulfilling life. And they remain my closest friends.
I never thought about giving up on any of them - and in many cases - it was well worth the time and effort spent helping them in any way I could.
I hope that you can keep your chin up - tell them the truth always - and provide the best support you can for them.
My best to you both during these challenging times.
First of all, the whole point of the article was the story of Greg Barrett. Be careful who your kid hangs out with and educate them on the dangers of alcohol and drug use.
MLB teams are told now to much more closely follow up any rumors of drug use or problems with drinking with any prospects, esp high draft picks. Extremely embarrassing to an organization when they sign a drunk or drug addict. Scouts get fired for that and should be.
MLB teams are told now to much more closely follow up any rumors of drug use or problems with drinking with any prospects, esp high draft picks. Extremely embarrassing to an organization when they sign a drunk or drug addict. Scouts get fired for that and should be.
Frank Martin
I'm glad you spoke your own mined.
Here's an article for you to read.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16474383/?GT1=8921
It happen's it's a disease.
After reading the Article.
Answer this Question.
Should the President, Congress beheld responsible for the Judges action's??
EH
quote:MLB teams are told now to much more closely follow up any rumors of drug use or problems with drinking with any prospects, esp high draft picks. Extremely embarrassing to an organization when they sign a drunk or drug addict. Scouts get fired for that and should be.
I'm glad you spoke your own mined.
Here's an article for you to read.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16474383/?GT1=8921
It happen's it's a disease.
After reading the Article.
Answer this Question.
Should the President, Congress beheld responsible for the Judges action's??
EH
quote:Originally posted by Frank Martin:
Extremely embarrassing to an organization when they sign a drunk or drug addict. Scouts get fired for that and should be.
Certainly embarrassing to those who know what happened. I know a 3rd rounder (son's teammate) who got cut in spring training less than a year after he turned pro for flunking drug tests. It sure made the MLB team that signed him look stupid since he came to practice stoned everyday just before he was drafted.
halfmoon,
Thanks for your candid answers. Our kids have often told us that the fact that we do not drink made the choice easier for them to never start. Their friends who had parents who do drink (who also happen to be OUR friends) all drank or abused drugs in high school... ALL of them. Don't get me wrong - these are all responsible parents, good people engaging in adult behavior, but the message their kids got was that in order to REALLY have fun, you need a drink in your hand.
Most of those kids managed to make it through high school unscathed, a few got caught and paid the price with one or more athletic suspensions. And two ruined their chances for baseball or even college by making some really, really bad choices. And through it all, their parents looked the other way, covered up for them, lied for them, battled the authorities for them... did everything but, as PG said, look their kid in the eye. One of the boys bragged to the other players that he never played a baseball game when he wasn't high, and yet his parents claimed they never knew. And maybe they didn't REALLY know how bad it was, but they sure do now.
Here's another question for you, or for anyone else who's faced similar issues in their own family - if a friend had come to you and said they had reason to believe your son was involved in drugs, how do you think you would have reacted? I ask because the parents of one of the boys who I mentioned above have been our baseball friends for a number of years. They will no longer speak to us because they apparently felt we (as well as other team parents) should have said something. We heard rumors and had our own observations, but no hard facts. I wonder myself if we should have stuck our necks out... or if I would in the future if the situation arises again in our younger son's circle.
Thanks again... I think when it comes to parenting, we're all in this together. The more we can do to share information with one another, the better. You said in your post "this is critically important to somebody....I am absolutely sure of it. " I had written in my original post (and then cut it, because I tend to get very long winded!) something to the effect of "someone is reading this right now who has no idea how close this issue is to their own family"... and I do believe that's true.
Here's another suggestion for everyone - if your kids spend a lot of time online, find out what they're doing. Do they have a myspace or facebook account? Ask for access - if they won't give it to you, there is without a doubt something going on. Pull the plug on the internet until you figure out what it is -
Thanks for your candid answers. Our kids have often told us that the fact that we do not drink made the choice easier for them to never start. Their friends who had parents who do drink (who also happen to be OUR friends) all drank or abused drugs in high school... ALL of them. Don't get me wrong - these are all responsible parents, good people engaging in adult behavior, but the message their kids got was that in order to REALLY have fun, you need a drink in your hand.
Most of those kids managed to make it through high school unscathed, a few got caught and paid the price with one or more athletic suspensions. And two ruined their chances for baseball or even college by making some really, really bad choices. And through it all, their parents looked the other way, covered up for them, lied for them, battled the authorities for them... did everything but, as PG said, look their kid in the eye. One of the boys bragged to the other players that he never played a baseball game when he wasn't high, and yet his parents claimed they never knew. And maybe they didn't REALLY know how bad it was, but they sure do now.
Here's another question for you, or for anyone else who's faced similar issues in their own family - if a friend had come to you and said they had reason to believe your son was involved in drugs, how do you think you would have reacted? I ask because the parents of one of the boys who I mentioned above have been our baseball friends for a number of years. They will no longer speak to us because they apparently felt we (as well as other team parents) should have said something. We heard rumors and had our own observations, but no hard facts. I wonder myself if we should have stuck our necks out... or if I would in the future if the situation arises again in our younger son's circle.
Thanks again... I think when it comes to parenting, we're all in this together. The more we can do to share information with one another, the better. You said in your post "this is critically important to somebody....I am absolutely sure of it. " I had written in my original post (and then cut it, because I tend to get very long winded!) something to the effect of "someone is reading this right now who has no idea how close this issue is to their own family"... and I do believe that's true.
Here's another suggestion for everyone - if your kids spend a lot of time online, find out what they're doing. Do they have a myspace or facebook account? Ask for access - if they won't give it to you, there is without a doubt something going on. Pull the plug on the internet until you figure out what it is -
Mythreeson's, I believe I remember this topic from the Ladies Lounge a while back. It was a good topic and one that stirred up lots of reaction and comments. I look forward to the feedback from a more general and larger forum!
Good pointer about the Myspace. That can indeed be a nightmare if not monitered VERY closely.
Good pointer about the Myspace. That can indeed be a nightmare if not monitered VERY closely.
You should definately say something to a parent if you suspect they might be using drugs or have a problem drinking. They are not only a risk to themsleves, but suppose they get into a car , they are a danger to others. Plus nothing could be worse then not saying anything and they die from a car accident or overdose.
People abusing drugs or alcohol dont relize the stress and the worry they put their friends and family through, always fearing they gonna get a call from a hospital or police telling them their son or friend just died.
People abusing drugs or alcohol dont relize the stress and the worry they put their friends and family through, always fearing they gonna get a call from a hospital or police telling them their son or friend just died.