The difference a year makes.

I like last year's better.

Same batting avearge with more at bats,more homeruns and more extra base hits.

I like this years better.

Chameleon knows what he is saying......I would advise you to listen carefully to what he says....His form is quite a bit better in last years pic.....

He is sitting on his backside, now, and not transferring his weight well.....Better pitching will expose the fault of doing this....

In which pic do the hips have a more complete opening?....And, in which pic did he hit the ball on the way to extension?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BlueDog:

He is sitting on his backside, now, and not transferring his weight well.....Better pitching will expose the fault of doing this....



Oh, you mean like.....Barry Bonds??? Mr. Fox, he looks good to me in both pictures, just using different mechanics. I can't really tell if he got to full extension since he's let go with his top hand in this picture, but it may be something you want to watch. If he's not getting his hands extended through contact, as Blue Dog notes, he may have trouble with breaking balls and off speed pitches as the pitchers get better. Sounds like he's had a great year. Keep up the good work!

Chameleon, some are catching on and some are not.....

Some understand that MLB hitters float the bat and some never will.....

Some understand hands to the ball doesn't allow late pitch recognition and some do not....

What happens during the float is what seperates MLB hitters from the rest.....Without the float, you're toast.....

Of course, unless they're satisfied with padding stats against poor pitching.....Which, is quite prevalent with coaches, parents and players....So much so, I would say it's the norm.....

When Blue Dog and Chameleon speak, read, and re-read.

Blue Dog, by "float", are you referring to what the barrel is doing during the period in what Chameleon refers to as "tourque the hands"?

quote:

Originally posted by noreast:
When Blue Dog and Chameleon speak, read, and re-read.

Blue Dog, by "float", are you referring to what the barrel is doing during the period in what Chameleon refers to as "tourque the hands"?

Yes, that's what he's talking about and there is absolutely no need for an 8 year old kid to do that. When he starts to see 90+ fast balls combined with 75 to 85 mph breaking pitches, he will need to learn to do that. Most younger kids don't have the hand strength to re-direct the bat and keep enough control of the barrel to make consistent contact. IMO, timing and getting to a proper contact position is more of a problem for younger kids than bat speed.

micmeister,you saw the video of him hitting and some times(most of the time) he gets to full extension,other times he doesn't.

He doesn't always take his hand off the bat as he is doing in this picture.It seems to be a feel thing for him.


I would quess that in the second picture he was arm barring real bad because he has started doing that in the last few weaks but I am not worried because he has done it right enough for me to know he is getting it.



Remember,this is hitting off a machine where he can sit dead ready for a certain pitch and hit it hard.


For those that missed it.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q7aE2HpzIF4


He was actually hitting the ball real well when the first pic was taken but he was just floating the ball into the outfield.Now,he is crushing the ball and hitting line drives.

quote:

Originally posted by tfox:
micmeister,you saw the video of him hitting and some times(most of the time) he gets to full extension,other times he doesn't.

He doesn't always take his hand off the bat as he is doing in this picture.It seems to be a feel thing for him.


I would quess that in the second picture he was arm barring real bad because he has started doing that in the last few weaks but I am not worried because he has done it right enough for me to know he is getting it.



Remember,this is hitting off a machine where he can sit dead ready for a certain pitch and hit it hard.


For those that missed it.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q7aE2HpzIF4


He was actually hitting the ball real well when the first pic was taken but he was just floating the ball into the outfield.Now,he is crushing the ball and hitting line drives.

Because now he has better leverage.

quote:

Blue Dog, by "float", are you referring to what the barrel is doing during the period in what Chameleon refers to as "tourque the hands"?

Yes....During this period the bat is changing planes while the handle of the bat is being torqued in-between the hands.....And, please understand floating the bat is not a strength issue.....

AND, the location and speed of the pitch is being recognized during this time period, also.......

Here is Mr. Bonds floating the bat....

http://www.youthbaseballcoaching.com/mpg/Bonds01.mpeg

Please note in the above clip how the hips complete their turn and the arms extend.....Nice weight transfer.....No sitting on his back leg....

Bonds?

Leaving his weight back?

Bonds Chase

I guess that rear foot going toward home plate is what you call "weight back".

Get a clue.

quote:

Originally posted by tfox:
Same batting avearge with more at bats,more homeruns and more extra base hits.

I like this years better.

This kind of thinking jeopardizes his baseball future.

It's the same exact thought process that all dads/kids take that never play beyond high school. Many don't even play there. They wake up one day and realize what they've been doing will not work at higher levels.

Most were never warned. You now have been.

There is a high level sequence that you'd better work toward instead of stat numbers.

We really can't tell **** from the still pictures. But....you claim it's better. If all we have is a still, the still of last year is better

quote:

IMO, timing and getting to a proper contact position is more of a problem for younger kids than bat speed.

In all due respect Meister, everything is a problem to any hitter who doesn't know what to do.....Age is not a factor.....

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:
Bonds?

Leaving his weight back?

Bonds Chase

I guess that rear foot going toward home plate is what you call "weight back".

Get a clue.

He is hitting around and over his back leg and behind his front leg. If he was hitting from back to front his foot would go up or forward.

One of us needs to get a clue, but it ain't me!

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:

quote:

Originally posted by tfox:
Same batting avearge with more at bats,more homeruns and more extra base hits.

I like this years better.

This kind of thinking jeopardizes his baseball future.

It's the same exact thought process that all dads/kids take that never play beyond high school. Many don't even play there. They wake up one day and realize what they've been doing will not work at higher levels.

Most were never warned. You now have been.

There is a high level sequence that you'd better work toward instead of stat numbers.

We really can't tell s h i t from the still pictures. But....you claim it's better. If all we have is a still, the still of last year is better

His kid is "8"!!! With your kind of thinking, 8 year old pitchers should be working on cutters, split fingers, and sliders. That is what they have to do to be a professional pitcher...right???

Its been way too long since the Doggie - and his various aliases - invented yet another new "term of the month"

"Floating the Bat"

Very creative - LOL

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

IMO, timing and getting to a proper contact position is more of a problem for younger kids than bat speed.

In all due respect Meister, everything is a problem to any hitter who doesn't know what to do.....Age is not a factor.....

Floating the bat is a recognition mechanic. What does an 8 year old need to recognize other than location. Should a 3rd grader learn Calculus before they learn basic math??? A swing is something that can be built upon and IMO should be, so that a hitter can have success along the way as well as in the end. Teaching an 8 year old a MLB swing isn't needed. If you two don't scare Mr. Fox away from here, he can add to his son's swing as he moves up. If you overload him now and he isn't successful, he may quit playing altogether.

quote:

Originally posted by micmeister:
He is hitting around and over his back leg and behind his front leg. If he was hitting from back to front his foot would go up or forward.

The **** they come up with to save face.

around and over yet behind.......so you're saying no forward momentum into Bond's swing?

lol

The kids age is irrelevant. How old is the Dad? The Dad's lack of understanding is the point.

quote:

Originally posted by micmeister:
Floating the bat is a recognition mechanic.

So....you can't recognize without floating?

I suggest you learn what it is before you pontificate.

Jesus Christ..... he's 8 let'em have fun with the game first.

Get into all that cr^p later when it really matters.

Chameleon,did you even look ad the video?
There is more information there.From cold hitting to warm up and even into a little tired.



You have made quite a few assumptions of his swing by the way he finished on 1 still shot.You know what you do when you assume.


I never said the pic was perfect but it is an amazing start,especially for an 8 year old.

One of the worst mistakes one can make is to overload another when trying to teach them.You must work on a couple things at a time instead of every aspect.

I have coached archery shooting and I never try and tell someone EVERY mistake they are making at the very beggining.It is a learning process and you advance the lessons as the skills progress.ESPECIALLY when dealing with youngsters.


This kid is somewhat of a gifted athlete.He made black belt at 7,do you think his instructor was teaching how to break 2 boards with a jump round house kick the first day?

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:

quote:

Originally posted by micmeister:
Floating the bat is a recognition mechanic.

So....you can't recognize without floating?

I suggest you learn what it is before you pontificate.

I didn't say that. It is only needed when you need to wait longer to start your swing. I can start a swing well before the pitcher lets go of the ball if I know what pitch he's throwing and where he's going to throw it. Also, I can float the bat all I want and it won't help me hit the ball.

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:

quote:

Originally posted by micmeister:
He is hitting around and over his back leg and behind his front leg. If he was hitting from back to front his foot would go up or forward.

The **** they come up with to save face.

around and over yet behind.......so you're saying no forward momentum into Bond's swing?

lol

The kids age is irrelevant. How old is the Dad? The Dad's lack of understanding is the point.

For one thing, you can stop with the foul language. Now, to Bond's swing. Obviously there is forward motion in his swing, the ball is being thrown from in front of him and he is trying to hit the ball in front of him. The BAT is moving forward, but his body is rotating around an axis (his waist) and over his back thigh. Two objects in motion moving in opposite directions AT CONTACT, not well after contact which is when Bond's foot moves toward the plate. You see only what you want to see and what fits in your narrow vision of hitting mechanics.

quote:

not well after contact which is when Bond's foot moves toward the plate.

What do you think caused his foot to move toward the catcher after contact? hmmm??? Maybe his weight moving to his front side during his swing? Just a hunch.

Like you said "You see only what you want to see and what fits in your narrow vision of hitting mechanics."

If you think Bonds weight doesnt move forward during his swing your lack of knowledge on hitting is only equalled by lack of knowledge on pitching, and your obvious lack of class... His foot lifted off the ground and toward the catcher because his weight shifted forward. Do you think the foot moved because he was rotating around a stationary axis over his back leg... Maybe his foot slides out from under him because he slipped on some magic pixie dust.

Continue your epic persuit of thinking Hank Aaron couldnt hit .200 today. And please figure out how to use the quote function properly one time... 355 nonsense posts and you still cant figure out how to put the text in between the [quote]'s

quote:

Continue your epic persuit of thinking Hank Aaron couldnt hit .200 today.

.......He believes this????????

Yes. Hank had to much forward movement to hit todays pitchers.

quote:

This kid is somewhat of a gifted athlete.

This has more to do with any recent success than quality mechanics.

Quite frankly.....the best I can tell from the youtube video is.......the kid is spinning.

Post a clip that can be played frame by frame.

quote:

Originally posted by micmeister:

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by micmeister:
Floating the bat is a recognition mechanic.

So....you can't recognize without floating?

I suggest you learn what it is before you pontificate.

How about your comments on brain surgery.

They may show some knowledge of the subject.

quote:

Originally posted by micmeister:
Now, to Bond's swing. Obviously there is forward motion in his swing, the ball is being thrown from in front of him and he is trying to hit the ball in front of him. The BAT is moving forward, but his body is rotating around an axis (his waist) and over his back thigh. Two objects in motion moving in opposite directions AT CONTACT, not well after contact which is when Bond's foot moves toward the plate. You see only what you want to see and what fits in your narrow vision of hitting mechanics.

quote:

not well after contact which is when Bond's foot moves toward the plate.

Obviously you don't know the significance of what Bond's foot does...after contact...compared to what the kid's does.

It tells an important story. One you need to read up on.

Stare at Bond's foot. Stare at the kid's foot.

Some things are so obvious that only those with agenda's can not see

Hank couldn't hit against today's pitchers??????......Bonds doesn't shift weight forward????

.....Say it aint so, Joe!!!!

mic is thepainguy of hitting.

The late Swingbuster made some very observant points about what would happen if you set an object directly behind the rear foot.

When you swing you shouldn't hit.

Bond's wouldn't hit it.

The kid may hit it so hard he kicks it into the oppo batters box.

quote:

This kid is somewhat of a gifted athlete.

quote:

This has more to do with any recent success than quality mechanics.

Finding a good athlete is the hardest part...that part cant be taught. Having an 8 yr old myself, this kid appears to be gifted athletically in relation to the 8's that I have seen.

Many are more gifted than their teammates and opponents when they are young.

They get by with less than good mechanics and before you know it they are passed up by the competition. May be in high school. May be in college.

Fewer and fewer are more gifted than their teammates and opponents as they go to higher levels.

Mechanics will make a huge difference at that time.

Better start now.

If you stop the clip of bonds at the same point,it will appear very similar to my sons.He would appear to be sitting down but as the bat continues around,his upper body momentum carries him forward,off his back foot.His rear foot doesn't move forward untill the bat comes all the way back around his head.


Think about this,you are comparing the mechanics of an 8 year old to the mechanics of the best homerun hitter EVER in baseball.

quote:

Originally posted by Glove Man:
Jesus Christ..... he's 8 let'em have fun with the game first.

This is the extent of Glove Man's brilliance.

He can't distinquish between conversation, amongst adults, about an adult's knowledge of a swing and criticism of a kid.

But he feels a need to be a member.

The wannabe factor.

I think he was featured in a recent ESPN commercial.

Continue your epic persuit of thinking Hank Aaron couldnt hit .200 today. And please figure out how to use the quote function properly one time... 355 nonsense posts and you still cant figure out how to put the text in between the

quote:

's

But I can spell pursuit!

quote:

Originally posted by tfox:
Think about this,you are comparing the mechanics of an 8 year old to the mechanics of the best homerun hitter EVER in baseball.

No, I'm telling you that in the still picture, he was better last year.

I'm also telling you, in the youtube video, he appears to be spinning.

Post a clip that can be played frame by frame.

The rear foot action of the two hitters is completely different and is very significant.

quote:

Originally posted by tfox:
If you stop the clip of bonds at the same point,it will appear very similar to my sons.He would appear to be sitting down but as the bat continues around,his upper body momentum carries him forward,off his back foot.His rear foot doesn't move forward untill the bat comes all the way back around his head.


Think about this,you are comparing the mechanics of an 8 year old to the mechanics of the best homerun hitter EVER in baseball.

You nailed it Mr. Fox! This is a riot! They are talking about YOUR lack of knowledge! I'll give you the names of three guys that have no intention of ever helping anyone on this website, but you probably already know them. Chameleon, Bluedog, and Deemax! They are way too self-centered to ever try to help someone else out. Ignore anything they say and you will do just fine. They do offer some nice videos from time to time though. It's a darn shame they can't analyze them correctly!

http://www.leaguelineup.com/photoalbum_display.asp?sid=...=hc8&photoid=1942536


Here is a swing at what should be contact but he missed.

quote:

Originally posted by tfox:
http://www.leaguelineup.com/photoalbum_display.asp?sid=...=hc8&photoid=1942536


Here is a swing at what should be contact but he missed.

PERFECT!!!

Watch the rear foot action.






The six year old can do it. Can your 8 year old?

quote:

Originally posted by tfox:
http://www.leaguelineup.com/photoalbum_display.asp?sid=...=hc8&photoid=1942536


Here is a swing at what should be contact but he missed.

It looks like he went right through it...My 8 year old tried to convince me I threw a whiffle ball through his bat today. Good photo.

quote:

not well after contact which is when Bond's foot moves toward the plate.

Obviously you don't know the significance of what Bond's foot does...after contact...compared to what the kid's does.

It tells an important story. One you need to read up on.

Stare at Bond's foot. Stare at the kid's foot.

Some things are so obvious that only those with agenda's can not see[/QUOTE]



And his body moves forward too, huh? Look at the guy in the red shirt in the stands. Bond's foot moves the way it does because of his strength and torque. That's about as obvious as it gets!

quote:

Originally posted by micmeister:
And his body moves forward too, huh? Look at the guy in the red shirt in the stands. Bond's foot moves the way it does because of his strength and torque. That's about as obvious as it gets!

Who said his body moved forward?

Another indicator of the ESPN disase....talking out of your ***.

Strength and torque, eh? How much strength and torque would it take to move that foot if his weight remained over the ball of his foot like the kid does?

I'd like to see you get to the toe of your rear foot and then swing the foot around while your weight is over the rear leg to the point of the ball of the foot supporting the weight like the kid does.

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:
Watch the rear foot action.






The six year old can do it. Can your 8 year old?

And you think he looks like the first picture in this thread??? You are scary!

quote:

Originally posted by deemax:

quote:

Originally posted by tfox:
http://www.leaguelineup.com/photoalbum_display.asp?sid=...=hc8&photoid=1942536


Here is a swing at what should be contact but he missed.

It looks like he went right through it...My 8 year old tried to convince me I threw a whiffle ball through his bat today. Good photo.

It was an outside pitch,even off of a machine.His timing was the same as if it was down the middle.This is one of those things he will learn over time.He was the lead off guy and it was his job to let everyone on the team know how the machine was pitching.

quote:

The six year old can do it. Can your 8 year old?

Who does the six year old belong to? He's gonna be bear in T-ball.

Stop the video of the 6 year old at the same point and it will look very similar also.look at his back foot as the bat starts crossing his head on the back swing.

Here's a lesson for you two.

The weight goes to the instep and then the heel raises as rotation starts. Therefore, if a ball was sitting right near your rear heel, you wouldn't hit it.

From the youtube video (I'd rather have a frame by frame view) I'd say the kid would knock the ball into the oppo box.

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:

quote:

Originally posted by micmeister:
And his body moves forward too, huh? Look at the guy in the red shirt in the stands. Bond's foot moves the way it does because of his strength and torque. That's about as obvious as it gets!

Who said his body moved forward?

Another indicator of the ESPN disase....talking out of your ***.

Strength and torque, eh? How much strength and torque would it take to move that foot if his weight remained over the ball of his foot like the kid does?

I'd like to see you get to the toe of your rear foot and then swing the foot around while your weight is over the rear leg to the point of the ball of the foot supporting the weight like the kid does.

Where is his weight when the only part of his front foot on the ground is his heel? You are scaring me more and more with each post. WATCH THE VIDEO! PLEASE!

quote:

machine was pitching.

machines are pretty good for this age because the coaches I watch try to throw strikes to 3'8er's is a joke. The pitching machine leagues put it on a much better plane for the shorter and younger players. Coaches are to tall and to close to the plate to put the ball on a good plane to hit.

I don't know if the Dad wants me to say who the 6 yr old is.

I'll tell you he's playing higher than tee ball and he's tearing it up.......against older kids.

quote:

Originally posted by micmeister:

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:

quote:

Originally posted by micmeister:
And his body moves forward too, huh? Look at the guy in the red shirt in the stands. Bond's foot moves the way it does because of his strength and torque. That's about as obvious as it gets!

Who said his body moved forward?

Another indicator of the ESPN disase....talking out of your ***.

Strength and torque, eh? How much strength and torque would it take to move that foot if his weight remained over the ball of his foot like the kid does?

I'd like to see you get to the toe of your rear foot and then swing the foot around while your weight is over the rear leg to the point of the ball of the foot supporting the weight like the kid does.

Where is his weight when the only part of his front foot on the ground is his heel? You are scaring me more and more with each post. WATCH THE VIDEO! PLEASE!

Let me tell you something pal, when that lead knee locks, halting linear momentum and enhancing rotation, almost every ounce of his weight is into that front leg. That's why the weight goes to the instep and then the heel raises instead of spinning on the rear foot like the kid does.

Two completely different foot actions which mean two completely different swing patterns.

And it's that weight, that forward momentum, and that rotational force that forces that front heel to spin out and the rear leg to swing to the plate.

Another freebie for you.

You're welcome.

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:
I don't know if the Dad wants me to say who the 6 yr old is.

I'll tell you he's playing higher than tee ball and he's tearing it up.......against older kids.

His balance could be improved .... Hes hitting without laces in his shoes. The tongue is flapping everywhere...classic.

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:

quote:

Originally posted by micmeister:

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:

quote:

Originally posted by micmeister:
And his body moves forward too, huh? Look at the guy in the red shirt in the stands. Bond's foot moves the way it does because of his strength and torque. That's about as obvious as it gets!

Who said his body moved forward?

Another indicator of the ESPN disase....talking out of your a s s.

Strength and torque, eh? How much strength and torque would it take to move that foot if his weight remained over the ball of his foot like the kid does?

I'd like to see you get to the toe of your rear foot and then swing the foot around while your weight is over the rear leg to the point of the ball of the foot supporting the weight like the kid does.

Where is his weight when the only part of his front foot on the ground is his heel? You are scaring me more and more with each post. WATCH THE VIDEO! PLEASE!

Let me tell you something pal, when that lead knee locks, halting linear momentum and enhancing rotation, almost every ounce of his weight is into that front leg. That's why the weight goes to the instep and then the heel raises instead of spinning on the rear foot like the kid does.

Two completely different foot actions which mean two completely different swing patterns.

And it's that weight, that forward momentum, and that rotational force that forces that front heel to spin out and the rear leg to swing to the plate.

Another freebie for you.

You're welcome.

I am with you that the weight goes into the front leg,but in the photo,it is well after contact and he is coming back down on his rear foot.That isn't where it was at at contact.look at the other link I posted.


He isn't a 250 pound man that is overswinging to the point he can't maintain his balance.Even the 6 year old is coming back down on the back foot during the foolow through.

If you want more, watch the 6 year old's arm setup and hand action.

The 8 year old better learn that also.

The 6 year old's barrel rotation is centered in the hands.

The 8 year old's barrel rotation is centered in his spine. That is a LONG swing.

The 6 year old will have earlier batspeed and higher pitch adjustability than the 8 year old.

Better fix it now while it's easy.

I have based my comments on the youtube video.

Post a clip that can be viewed frame by frame.

I'm betting you don't see the 6 year old's foot action.

I see the 8 year old spinning and I see him spinning on the ball of his rear foot.

His rear heel would hit a ball sitting right behind his rear foot and knock it into the oppo box.

Prove me wrong with a clip other than youtube.

It may be possible.

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:
If you want more, watch the 6 year old's arm setup and hand action.

The 8 year old better learn that also.

The 6 year old's barrel rotation is centered in the hands.

The 8 year old's barrel rotation is centered in his spine.

The 6 year old will have earlier batspeed and higher pitch adjustability than the 8 year old.

Better fix it now while it's easy.

And burn him out by the time he is 15


He has only had about 1/2 dozen actuall lessons.

Schenk (Chameleon, "a lizard that changes it's color to hide and adapts to it's surroundings to evade predators"), being the bigger man, I will let that little barb go.

Best of luck to your Billiards bar and it's success, BTW, it's about time you added chicken strips to your menu.

Also, I may be in STL in Jan 08, so be ready with the best wings in the STL.

Richard, and now a freebie for you - Clean up your language or you'll have to reinvent yourself here again. In attempting to make your point, you don't have to resort to using words that are blocked from this site.

tfox, the problem with posting either pictures or video of your child on any site is that they are then open to all types of interpretations. If you ask for the opinions, beware of what you ask for. If I may, if you are uncomfortable with the critique of your child, then only post video of your child on websites that are copyrighted and where you express that you do not want said video reproduced. That is the avenue I've taken with my child.

An observation if I may, I also agree that the picture of the previous year appears to be better. I agree that the most efficient swing is one where the hitter, in the swing process actually comes up on that back toe and often actually has that back toe leave the ground. The St. Louis Post Dispatch had a great picture of the ball Albert Pujos hit out of the new stadium in Houston. The ball has just left the bat and Albert's back toe is off of the ground. I have that picture displayed in my classroom. My daughter was recently very ill. She has just now been able to swing a bat again after being sick for over a month. She reverted back to a swing that was more squishing the bug than getting her hips cleared. We've worked on that and only that this week. When she finally started feeling that finish again, the ball began to leave the park. In the most recent pic of your son, he is losing a lot of power potential and yes, I also agree that when the pitching becomes better, he'll struggle.

If you want to pm me on some thoughts, I'd be glad to give you some recommendations. These are just my observations and my opinion. My opinion and $6.00 will get you an extra value meal at Micky D's.

quote:

And burn him out by the time he is 15

It doesnt have to be this extreme. If your son learns the proper actions when he's young its much easier to refine and develope as he gets older. Keep it fun for him and always build him up.

quote:

Originally posted by Glove Man:

Also, I may be in STL in Jan 08, so be ready with the best wings in the STL.

If you make it to St. Louis and don't give me a phone call, I'll be upset. Perhaps we can go vist this local establishment called Teachers for some hot wings. I believe that the proprieter will have them on the house. Then again, maybe not.

I will be coaching basketball again and so, I hope that won't cause any conflict.

quote:

Originally posted by tfox:

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:
If you want more, watch the 6 year old's arm setup and hand action.

The 8 year old better learn that also.

The 6 year old's barrel rotation is centered in the hands.

The 8 year old's barrel rotation is centered in his spine.

The 6 year old will have earlier batspeed and higher pitch adjustability than the 8 year old.

Better fix it now while it's easy.

And burn him out by the time he is 15


He has only had about 1/2 dozen actuall lessons.

The 6 yr old's dad works with him for about 15 minutes at a time here and there.

quote:

Originally posted by Glove Man:
Schenk (Chameleon, "a lizard that changes it's color to hide and adapts to it's surroundings to evade predators"), being the bigger man, I will let that little barb go.

Best of luck to your Billiards bar and it's success, BTW, it's about time you added chicken strips to your menu.

Also, I may be in STL in Jan 08, so be ready with the best wings in the STL.

We reserve the right to refuse service to those who don't live up to their gender.

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:

quote:

Originally posted by micmeister:

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:

quote:

Originally posted by micmeister:
And his body moves forward too, huh? Look at the guy in the red shirt in the stands. Bond's foot moves the way it does because of his strength and torque. That's about as obvious as it gets!

Who said his body moved forward?

Another indicator of the ESPN disase....talking out of your ***.

Strength and torque, eh? How much strength and torque would it take to move that foot if his weight remained over the ball of his foot like the kid does?

I'd like to see you get to the toe of your rear foot and then swing the foot around while your weight is over the rear leg to the point of the ball of the foot supporting the weight like the kid does.

Where is his weight when the only part of his front foot on the ground is his heel? You are scaring me more and more with each post. WATCH THE VIDEO! PLEASE!

Let me tell you something pal, when that lead knee locks, halting linear momentum and enhancing rotation, almost every ounce of his weight is into that front leg. That's why the weight goes to the instep and then the heel raises instead of spinning on the rear foot like the kid does.

Two completely different foot actions which mean two completely different swing patterns.

And it's that weight, that forward momentum, and that rotational force that forces that front heel to spin out and the rear leg to swing to the plate.

Another freebie for you.

You're welcome.

If I thought I needed a lesson from you I'd give up baseball altogether! The forward momentum of the bathead is produced by the top hand and it only lasts a split second. The bat, body, and hands should all be moving in a circular motion throughout the rest of the swing. Meaning, before and shortly after contact and that, not back to front motion. You are correct in that all most all of his weight goes into his front leg, but it is at contact only. Watch the 6 year old's foot after contact. How does he end up on his back heel if his momentum is going forward??? As Mr. Fox notes, the position at contact and at the same point in the second still frame of the two kids is almost identical and they are both spinning around an axis over their back thigh (Epstein). Now, all of the hitters you showed do not do that, but most of them do. Some end up like the first still picture (Charlie Lao).

quote:

had a great picture of the ball Albert Pujos hit out of the new stadium in Houston.

Thanks for the memories Coach! I've tried to forget that particular moment in Astros history!

I was good until that homerun, homerun, homerun(head and shoulder flinching).....

mic

Watch the youtube clips again.

Need a napkin?

I never said I was having problems with the critique.

I have also been trying to get him to load up more on his front foot but I am not pushing him to the point it isn't fun.


He is squating on the rear foot in the pic but that is well after contact.The youtube video does have some where he is spinning and others where he is driving.

The first picture,his whole body is moving forward,before,during and after contact.

The fix starts with the proper use of the hands.

The lower body is slave to the upper body. The lower body will adapt to the task presented by the upper body.

Using the hands properly helps the body separate which is important to the whip or cusp, which is where swing quickness comes from.

Change the upper body to what the 6 year old is doing and you'll take a significant step forward.

Currently your son is swinging with brute force rotation. He's athletic and he's using that athletic ability.

What he's not doing is developing the mechanical advantage that the body can develop....and that all high level hitters do. From this advantage comes the quickness and the power.

Learn to separate the upper and the lower body that leads to a "cusp" and the "stretch and fire" release of the barrel.

Watch Bond's separate and how he does it. Upper body going rearward as the lower body goes forward. Something has to give...........KAPOW...at the cusp.

quote:

We reserve the right to refuse service to those who don't live up to their gender.

Oh, I definately live up to my gender..... nope you will not entrap me as you have in the past.

BTW, you never answered my question, how did your brief intro to LilHit15 go? Did you give him any pointers?

quote:

Originally posted by tfox:
I never said I was having problems with the critique.

I understand that but did want to mention it since there are some big hitters here and so, they can walk a very fine line between constuctive criticism and being down right mean.

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:
The fix starts with the proper use of the hands.

The lower body is slave to the upper body. The lower body will adapt to the task presented by the upper body.

Change the upper body to what the 6 year old is doing and you'll take a significant step forward.

So it is quite possible if we get the arm barring problem fixed,that we have just started working on,it would help him load up.


Kinda a retorical question.His coach and I recognize problem areas.We are working on them.I never said it was perfect.

The proper use of the hands is very similar to what you would do to open this vault door from a batters stance. Assume the handle turns in the direction you need it to (righty or lefty)

Assume the orange line is the handle and that it fits the angle of your hands in your stance. Grab the handle at the spot your hands would be in your stance..........one hand on top of the other like on a bat......turn the handle.

You will feel the top hand going rearward as the hands torque the handle. If it takes some effort to turn the handle (as if it's stuck a little) you'll feel the shoulders laterally tilt and you'll feel the hip project forward and separate the body against the resistance created by the hands on the handle.

Watch Barry turn the vault door and create the separation in his swing.



The barrel's rotation is about the hands.....not the spine.

This is very similar to how mlb players launch their swing.

The hands eventually move from the armpit/shoulder area as rotation takes over. But watch how they turn the vault door from a fairly stationery position for several frames.

The initiation of the swing is critcial. The hands start the swing. The body reacts to the instructions from the hands.

Give the hands the proper instruction and watch the body organize itself to assist the performance.

Most hitters would yank the handle off the door with their swing.....they would not turn the handle.....because they use the arms too much. This is also true of those who use shoulder rotation to turn the barrel.

tfox, I've sent you a private message.

quote:

Originally posted by tfox:

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:
The fix starts with the proper use of the hands.

The lower body is slave to the upper body. The lower body will adapt to the task presented by the upper body.

Change the upper body to what the 6 year old is doing and you'll take a significant step forward.

I also have a picture of him in the middle of his swing and his hips are just about gone and his shoulders are started BUT his arm is locked out.Hands are still back but arm is locked out.He is getting good separation.The arm barring is a problem right now but we worked on the hips and separation first.


So it is quite possible if we get the arm barring problem fixed,that we have just started working on,it would help him load up.


Kinda a retorical question.His coach and I recognize problem areas.We are working on them.I never said it was perfect.

Trying to sell memberships to a forum Richard..... NICE!!!!

Learn to separate the upper and the lower body that leads to a "cusp" and the "stretch and fire" release of the barrel.

Watch Bond's separate and how he does it. Upper body going rearward as the lower body goes forward. Something has to give...........KAPOW...at the cusp.

[/QUOTE]



Mr. Fox,


This portion of what Chameleon says is the only thing useful in his post, forget the rest! If your son doesn't feel a stretch in his front shoulder and front tricep, he will be losing power and bat speed.

Coach you know I will deffinately give you a buzz! And dinner is on me! .... maybe literally!

coach,reply sent.

Thanks

Bonds turns the barrel in his hands, and since the arms aren't delivering any energy to the barrel's turn, through the length of the arms, they can now be used to direct the rotation barrel to the ball.

Early batspeed......high adjustability.

As compared to arm swingers...and shoulder rotation swingers....people who may or may not generate the force with their arms but deliver it to the barrel with their arms. THIS IS NOT GOOD.

If the energy is being delivered by the arms to the barrel, even through shoulder rotation, you have little to no adjustability.

If the hands are turning the barrel, assisted by the shoulders lateral tilt and the hip projection and rotation, then the arms can be used to move this rotating barrel to the ball WITHOUT DEGRADING THE BARREL'S ROTATION.

Rich, your site pay homage to a HSBBW legend and I respect that, he was an inovator and true student of the game. DB, was a friend in my eyes.

See ya in Jan.

quote:

Originally posted by Glove Man:
Coach you know I will deffinately give you a buzz! And dinner is on me! .... maybe literally!

Richard is springing for at least one meal. Come on Richard, you buying?

Donny was extemely intelligent when it came to the swing.

He and tom.guerry have been right about swing mechanics for years.

You have to get in the batters box against a pitcher trying to get you out to understand that.

Some will do it. Others won't.

Live up to your gender?

If you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything? type of stand?

If so...it's on me.

But to wishy washy around.....I'm not interested.

I still get in the batter's box, in fact i will be in the box at about 10am CST.

And out at about 10:01

Lil Bighit looked at me like who the f are you.

He was in the bullpen. I wandered down to ask if his dad was there. He wasn't. Had been but left.

I told him to tell him Teacherman was looking for him.

That was it.

BTW......lil Bighit can bring it. He clearly had a superior arm to the others.

I can't believe I got a 5 page thread from a couple pics of an 8 year old.

You must really be bored.


I have to leave at 5:30 in the morning to take my daughter to her softball games.

I'm out.

maybe 10:02.... Think fastball, adjust to the offpseed.

Lil'Hit is the real deal, the Pirates effed up letting him go!

Here's to the Astros picking him up, do you wnat to talk to Purpura, or should I?

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:
Live up to your gender?

If you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything? type of stand?

If so...it's on me.

But to wishy washy around.....I'm not interested.

What the heck does that mean? Anyone that doesn't agree with you isn't a man? Please! Gloveman, looks like we're not getting those free chicken wings. Darn!

Where do you see the word "agree" in my post.

D, there's always Hooters or Wing Stop!

I too have a busy day. I will ask for permission to post a recent study from some research at the University of Arizona on wrist, hands etc. However, that may take some time. It might be found on a website somewhere as well.

Before you waste your time posting it.....who did the researcher play for?

I'll bring the personal pitcher and a bat and a lap top.

Before you leave you'll know what, why and how the hands work and you'll say.......hmmmmm.

And next year your players, and your daughter, will be doing this...

I'm game! You can tape me in Jan. And it won't look like that video of the dude pitching from a few years ago!

I have to hand it to you Chameleon, you have actually parted with more of your philosophy in this thread than I have ever seen. Having said that, the statement "the lower body is slave to the upper body" couldn't be more wrong. Unless you mean after the swing has started toward the ball and not before. Think of a rubberband, I can hold one end of a rubberband in one hand and nothing will happen. If I then pull on the other end with my other hand and stretch it tight, I will have stored energy. If I want to shoot the rubberband at something, I have to let the back end go. If I let both ends go at the same time what happens to the energy? The front foot and leg take the place of the front hand in the example and the hands take the place of the back hand. The core of the body acts as the rubberband. The rotational opening of the hips along with the rearward movement of the hands acts as the stretching of the rubberband or storing of energy. You cannot store the energy going back to front. Notice, I didn't say you couldn't hit without doing it. The torque of the hips plays no roll in the snap of the wrists to get the barrel moving to the ball and that is why girls can run and hit at the same time. Oh, and Ichiro too.

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:
Learn to separate the upper and the lower body that leads to a "cusp" and the "stretch and fire" release of the barrel.

I posted the above several times.

I suspected you were talking instead of reading.

When you do some trial and error swinging you'll understand the 'slave' stuff.

To wind the rubber band, the upper body goes rearward as the lower body opens...goes forward.

How do you do that.

Try torquing the handle as your trigger and maybe in the preswing...not all do that....and watch the lower body open.......as if slaved to the upper body.

Grab the vault door and assume it takes great energy to turn the handle......watch the body organize itself so the hips get a running start to assist the turn.

The upper body's goal sets the lower body's pattern.

The lower body is slave to the upper body's goal.

Set your lead arm/elbow up in the swing plane like a particular hitting theory suggests....the one that believes shoulder rotation pulls on the lead arm to power the bat...to make it fly off the merry go round. Watch yourself spin. Little to no separation is achieved.

The lower body is slave to the upper.

The proper upper body and hand pattern will lead to the proper lower body action and the separation needed for "stretch and fire" mechanics.

All of these guys do it.

Todays Greats

We all know where you stand Rich.... time after time... Infopimp was one of your aliases.

Hitting debate last year.

it's amaizing, your current ideas have changed from about a year ago.

pay close attention to post two on page two, and then post two on page three.

----------------------------------------------------------------

quote:

If you can't stay on point I'm not interested.

from 2006

quote:

But to wishy washy around.....I'm not interested.

from this thread

also, by right clicking on Infopimp's "x"ed out images on page three of the posted link, select properties and it will show http://www.teachersbilliards.com/....

RShard,teacherman, Infopimp, Rizzo, Chameloen

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:
Learn to separate the upper and the lower body that leads to a "cusp" and the "stretch and fire" release of the barrel.

I posted the above several times.

I suspected you were talking instead of reading.

When you do some trial and error swinging you'll understand the 'slave' stuff.

To wind the rubber band, the upper body goes rearward as the lower body opens...goes forward.

How do you do that.

Try torquing the handle as your trigger and maybe in the preswing...not all do that....and watch the lower body open.......as if slaved to the upper body.

Grab the vault door and assume it takes great energy to turn the handle......watch the body organize itself so the hips get a running start to assist the turn.

The upper body's goal sets the lower body's pattern.

The lower body is slave to the upper body's goal.

Set your lead arm/elbow up in the swing plane like a particular hitting theory suggests....the one that believes shoulder rotation pulls on the lead arm to power the bat...to make it fly off the merry go round. Watch yourself spin. Little to no separation is achieved.

The lower body is slave to the upper.

The proper upper body and hand pattern will lead to the proper lower body action and the separation needed for "stretch and fire" mechanics.

All of these guys do it.

Todays Greats

Again, you are the master of the video clips! However, the movement of their hands didn't cause them to open their front knee before their hands started forward. I see them all opening their hips and scap loading with their back elbow. Those two things stretch the rubberband. The feet are the posts holding the rubberband and two of the points of leverage. The other is the bottom hand.

Well? a retort?

quote:

We all know where you stand Rich.... time after time... Infopimp was one of your aliases.

Hitting debate last year. http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8291034941/m/6061083661/p/1

it's amaizing, your current ideas have changed from about a year ago.

pay close attention to post two on page two, and then post two on page three.
----------------------------------------------------------------


quote:
If you can't stay on point I'm not interested.
from 2006


quote:
But to wishy washy around.....I'm not interested.
from this thread

also, by right clicking on Infopimp's "x"ed out images on page three of the posted link, select properties and it will show http://www.teachersbilliards.com/.

RShard,teacherman, Infopimp, Rizzo, Chameloen

quote:

Originally posted by micmeister:

Again, you are the master of the video clips! However, the movement of their hands didn't cause them to open their front knee before their hands started forward. I see them all opening their hips and scap loading with their back elbow. Those two things stretch the rubberband. The feet are the posts holding the rubberband and two of the points of leverage. The other is the bottom hand.

I don't believe I said cause.

Swing a bat. Trial and error some.

You will then understand how the upper body's goal determines the lower body's pattern.

Yes the scaps load. But, what keeps them loaded. What keeps them from unloading early? If you think just holding the load with tension until you need to unload is the answer you are sadly mistaken. If you think you continue to load them until unload you are mistaken...that is sloppy...the scaps main work is to clamp down to reduce slop. What keeps the hands at the rear shoulder for as long as they stay there in high level swings.......it's the resistance rearward caused by the handle torque.... the barrel's rearward blur. And this same resistance allows the hips to open better/easier to get the rubber band wound.

Secondly....just loading and unloading the scaps against any hip movement WILL NOT create the cusp...the sudden burst. A cusp requires a sudden change of direction....the scaps movement doesn't qualify for sudden change of direction.

"Master of the video".....you betcha. And guys with holes in their theories don't like me.

quote:

Originally posted by Glove Man:
Well? a retort?

The retort is.....when something is proven I agree with it.

The role of the hands was proven to me.....and we have the results to add to that proof.

Too bad more don't let the truth guide their search. Most continue to protect their intellectual investment, their stand, against the mountain of evidence.

I know I'm off topic a little bit, but I figure the guys who would know are here....

does anyone know where I can find the video clip of Bonds and Williams synched side-by-side?

Thanks.

No

Thank you, Chameleon. I knew you'd be the one to come through. lol

If you will let your self see it.....you can "see/feel" the handle torque at launch in both Bonds and Williams. The barrel is swiveled rearward in both hitters at "go".

The "goal" of turning the barrel at launch with the hands/upper body tells the lower body what and how to move.

An excellent clip.

Neither hitter swings with shoulder rotation. Neither hitter has the lead elbow up in the swing plane to allow shoulder rotations pull on the barrel through the lead arm and the length of the bat.

They have their hands prepped ready to torque. This prep/feeling of what is about to happen sends a message to the lower body to get moving....we need your assistance. The lower body begins to open as the hands torque the barrel rearward....the running start.....separation is created. Then, at "go", the lateral tilt of the shoulders turns it all into the cusp, and an immediate "launch and spend" occurs.

Early batspeed is created with high adjustability.

This clip shows the truth about "shoulder rotation" swings and "handle torque" swings. The clip on the left was during "shoulder rotation" swing training. The clip on the right is from "handle torque" swing training. Both swings are against the same dominant pitcher. One in '06. The other in '07.

Stunning differences......and results.



I agree....a year makes a huge difference.

The reality is that a guy should be better from 2006 to 2007. This thread started with comparing how an 8 year old got better from one year to the next. It amazes me when we hear stories about a kid who throws 8 mph harder than he did from the previous year. Oh yeah, he grew 3 inches and 30 lbs.

BTW- Guys have good swings and bad swings in games. You can manipulate anything you want by analyzing one specific swing instead of the full body of work. The real trick is to teach a young player how to take his best swing into a game and repeat it as much as possible. Do that and you can call yourself a coach

quote:

Originally posted by ncball:
The reality is that a guy should be better from 2006 to 2007. This thread started with comparing how an 8 year old got better from one year to the next. It amazes me when we hear stories about a kid who throws 8 mph harder than he did from the previous year. Oh yeah, he grew 3 inches and 30 lbs.

BTW- Guys have good swings and bad swings in games. You can manipulate anything you want by analyzing one specific swing instead of the full body of work. The real trick is to teach a young player how to take his best swing into a game and repeat it as much as possible. Do that and you can call yourself a coach

I AGREE.


If shoulder rotation is so bad,then why did Ted Williams back the TEACHING techniques of it? He is one you say isn't even utilizing it.

I would go further and say the big lefty got better because he got in slightly better shape. He would probably be that much better if he was in even better shape.

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:
If you will let your self see it.....you can "see/feel" the handle torque at launch in both Bonds and Williams. The barrel is swiveled rearward in both hitters at "go".

The "goal" of turning the barrel at launch with the hands/upper body tells the lower body what and how to move.

An excellent clip.

Neither hitter swings with shoulder rotation. Neither hitter has the lead elbow up in the swing plane to allow shoulder rotations pull on the barrel through the lead arm and the length of the bat.

They have their hands prepped ready to torque. This prep/feeling of what is about to happen sends a message to the lower body to get moving....we need your assistance. The lower body begins to open as the hands torque the barrel rearward....the running start.....separation is created. Then, at "go", the lateral tilt of the shoulders turns it all into the cusp, and an immediate "launch and spend" occurs.

Early batspeed is created with high adjustability.

This clip shows the truth about "shoulder rotation" swings and "handle torque" swings. The clip on the left was during "shoulder rotation" swing training. The clip on the right is from "handle torque" swing training. Both swings are against the same dominant pitcher. One in '06. The other in '07.

Stunning differences......and results.



I agree....a year makes a huge difference.

He is getting much more separation on the left and that helps his bat speed. His swing plane is also different on the left, but that may have to do with pitch location.

You are retarded if you think there is more separation on the left.

I don't know how to do the slow motion stuff but I took some stills from the video so the quality sucks but I think I caught what you wanted to see.

This is around the 4:30 mark of the video.



right after contact,the balls are yellow dimple balls



same time as original post

The best I can tell,the second picture is almost the identical time of the swing and the picture is almost identical to the original.

This kid is a black belt as I mentioned before so he does have great body controll.I believe he gathers his balance very quickly after contact.

Do you not see the relevance of the back foot being planted as Chameleon has tried to tell you?

Just asking....

Balance as it pertains to swinging a bat, is a very misused term.....

Does this great hitter gather his balance??

http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro;jsessionid=jei6...&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9

Dynamic balance

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:
You are retarded if you think there is more separation on the left.

Nope, put that in wrong. I meant the right.

You do have to run after hitting,right? His foot is not planted at contact.

His nickname is speedy for a reason.


At contact he is right where you say he needs to be but now he isn't finishing right.Am I getting that right?

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
Do you not see the relevance of the back foot being planted as Chameleon has tried to tell you?

Just asking....

Balance as it pertains to swinging a bat, is a very misused term.....

Does this great hitter gather his balance??

http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro;jsessionid=jei6...&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9

Balance...yes.

I would also agree that the foot comes down very quickly and he is balanced and ready to run very quickly.

It is a little behind where it started but he is balanced.

micmeister,sent pm

You posted the stills and got a few opinions....They didn't seem to be worth much to you.....A few people got a chance to talk some hitting and argue some.....

If you're satisfied with the path your son's swing develpment is taking, then, you should continue with what you're doing.....You see what you believe to be improvement so it must be all good....

I never said they didn't mean anything to me.I have learned from this thread but some of the arguments made were made invalid with the stills from the videos.


From what I gather here,if your foot doesn't come completely off the ground and land in a different spot,then you are not doing it right.

I have asked questions and they are ignored.They are valid questions imo.

Here is one more pic,same as one before but it was a link.i love this strike.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
Do you not see the relevance of the back foot being planted as Chameleon has tried to tell you?

Just asking....

Balance as it pertains to swinging a bat, is a very misused term.....

Does this great hitter gather his balance??

http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro;jsessionid=jei6...&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9

Did I ever mention the back foot should be planted?

I think I have gotten caught up in the middle of past arguments or something to that effect.


I have stated to look at the video clips at certain points and they would be similar to the original stills I posted.

http://www.eventsimagingandawards.com/mp_client/picture...865141&eventid=27491



http://www.eventsimagingandawards.com/mp_client/picture...865378&eventid=27492


Is this better? I am kidding ..Some of you seem to forget about having a little fun.

I think I have proven that overall,he is not "spinning" He does have some flaws,never denied that.But he was getting broken down like he was in the majors.


He does have some upper body issues,I have admitted that and that is the point of emphasis right now.

Is this him?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q7aE2HpzIF4

Yes,I posted the link earlier.

IMO, he is WAAAY too wide with his feet. Watching the video, he is almost as wide as he is tall.

One of my players fell into this trap and it slowed his bat speed considerably.

Not a bat stroke for a lil guy.

The video was taken in kind of a transition period.He starts stepping way wide in the beggining because he had been starting narrow and going wider.We were working on going back to starting wide without striding and he was doing both at the start of the video.Later in the video he gets back to just raising his foot and lowering back down.


Yes,in the beggining of the video he was way wide.

TFox,

Good to hear. In the pic above, it looks as if he is pulling his chest back to the catcher to get his hands to the ball. (Yeah...I know it is only a still picture) This pulls his head behind his center...and it might be why he missed the pitch.

quote:

Originally posted by redbird5:
TFox,

Good to hear. In the pic above, it looks as if he is pulling his chest back to the catcher to get his hands to the ball. (Yeah...I know it is only a still picture) This pulls his head behind his center...and it might be why he missed the pitch.

The pitch was outside and he was trying to get out there to hit it,would that explain what you are seeing.

He is also using rotational mechanics and he is being taught to work his weight back.

quote:

Originally posted by tfox:
The pitch was outside and he was trying to get out there to hit it,would that explain what you are seeing.

He is also using rotational mechanics and he is being taught to work his weight back.

If he is hitting the outside pitch, the ball should travel further and contact is made deeper in his stance. You shouldn't have to "go out and get" any ball. Again, I know he is a young guy and that decision making process takes a while to learn.

All swings are rotational - there is no MLB hitter who is not. He shouldn't have to lean back with his torso to have a rotational swing.

I have shown him the pic and explained that he has to let the ball get in further,especially on the outside pitch.

He does it well in the cage but he hasn't gotten to the point where he can controll the game nerves to do it everytime in the game.


I did pitch him in the cage with a live arm and he did a nice job of adjusting to everything I threw.A good sign imo.


I am not getting back into the weight back argument,there is enough of that on this thread already.Plenty of video too.

To get him to stay back more, you can throw offset BP...move the L screen about 3-4' to the 1B side of the mound. Throw to the outer half. It gives you a better angle to hit your spots and makes him "let the ball travel" and get deeper in the hitting zone.

Having one's weight back has nothing to do with pulling his chest back towards the catcher. They are 2 separate movements.

quote:

Originally posted by tfox:
I have shown him the pic and explained that he has to let the ball get in further,especially on the outside pitch.

He does it well in the cage but he hasn't gotten to the point where he can controll the game nerves to do it everytime in the game.


I did pitch him in the cage with a live arm and he did a nice job of adjusting to everything I threw.A good sign imo.


I am not getting back into the weight back argument,there is enough of that on this thread already.Plenty of video too.

Tee work is the best way to learn body position on different locations. Muscle memory.

Again,not trying to argue but don't these hitters have their chest back.If I understand it correctly,it helps you drive off your front foot.

Are you trying to point out something else that I am missing,or do you just have a different philosophy for hitting than this?

The diagram is the way it is being taught.

http://www.backbackback.com/ this is where I found the photos

quote:

Originally posted by tfox:
Again,not trying to argue but don't these hitters have their chest back.If I understand it correctly,it helps you drive off your front foot.

Are you trying to point out something else that I am missing,or do you just have a different philosophy for hitting than this?

The diagram is the way it is being taught.

http://www.backbackback.com/ this is where I found the photos

It's hard to argue when one of the best hitters in MLB is doing it, huh? I'd say this shot is being hit to the left side or middle since his right arm is out so far. Think about this for a moment, if you have a slight upswing, wouldn't your best leverage position be leaning slightly back???

That's the way I understand it but what do I know.


I would also say that he is definately inside the ball.

I recently joined the board. This is my first venture into this section. I read page one and page seven. I'm guessing the same pee'ing match went on from pages two through six.

At eight years old be happy a kid loves playing the game, makes contact and doesn't have seriously flaws (relative to being 8yo) in his swing. Statistics for eight year olds? Come on!

Warning: I can be very direct at times. Is this your oldest? Parents often get goofy on stats with the first kid. Then when they realize how irrelevant they are, they're sane with the second kid.

I wouldn't be able to tell you what my son hit in 14U travel if I hadn't been shown a stat sheet near the end of the season. Regardless of his stats he's swinging the bat well and hitting the ball hard, which is all that really matters in his development heading into high school ball.

Baseball is a journey. At eight, relax, get caught up with having fun. Learn fundamentals. Don't see 8yo's as mini pros.

This is my second child and as far as the stats go,I was the first base coach so the stats were kinda part of the job.I don't know EXACTLY what he hit but I know how many times he got out because I can count them on 1 hand.


I bet you know how many homeruns your child hit in a season as well.

quote:

Originally posted by tfox:
... know how many times he got out because I can count them on 1 hand.

I bet you know how many homeruns your child hit in a season as well.

I remember both of my kids hardly making any outs when they were eight. It really doesn't matter. It's about building passion for the game at age eight. Some kids are way ahead of other kids at the early ages. I've also seen preteen studs turn to duds.

And yes, I can count to eight. The significance is how far he's driving the ball when he gets into one, heading into high school.

quote:

Originally posted by TG:

quote:

Originally posted by tfox:
... know how many times he got out because I can count them on 1 hand.

I bet you know how many homeruns your child hit in a season as well.

I remember both of my kids hardly making any outs when they were eight. It really doesn't matter. It's about building passion for the game at age eight. Some kids are way ahead of other kids at the early ages. I've also seen preteen studs turn to duds.

And yes, I can count to eight. The significance is how far he's driving the ball when he gets into one, heading into high school.

I think you as well as many others missed the whole point of this thread,I was mainly commenting on how much bigger/thicker my son was in the 2 pics.

It then turned into a peeing match.

Like I said,I don't know EXACTLY what the stats are and I didn't KEEP them but it isn't hard to say the batting average was the same and he had more homeruns.


He is having a blast,he gave up all other sports this fall so he can play live pitch this fall.He didn't have to but he told me nothing was going to make him miss live pitch.

tfox,

1) That softball swing is ugly. Please don't post it.

2) Joe Mauer leaning back and your son leaning back are 2 different things. Mauer is leaning back to get leverage. It appears your son pulls his chest back to get his bat through the zone. Just sayin'...

3) I am not arguing at all