The HS Kid Who Quits & Comes Back

Let him try out. Different coaches, teammates, experience. If he makes the team and doesn’t play, then it may be wash, rinse, repeat. But if he does play, then the change of scenery did him good.

Man Francis, from the generational baseball links, daddy-ball, kids who don't like the game, and the freshman who quits and comes back, you sure are in the middle of a lot of whacky situations.

He's a kid, re-do's are allowed, without adult retribution...

CTbballDad posted:

Man Francis, from the generational baseball links, daddy-ball, kids who don't like the game, and the freshman who quits and comes back, you sure are in the middle of a lot of whacky situations.

 

LOL.  I know TOO MANY people and talk to TOO MANY people.  I get a lot of information and heard  A LOT of stories.  (Or, as my wife likes to say "Too bad you can't turn all of that information into some money!")

I think you have to let him try out, but I hate it. Coaches want to win, and I get it, but I feel like we've lost any sense of honor.

My kid says his motto is #loyal. Sadly, that doesn't seem to get you anywhere anymore.

I believe in second chances. 

New year, new shot.

But I should think, if he were good enough to make the team, that the coach would meet with him one on one to let him know in advance that if he pulls that stunt again, he'll be persona non grata in the program from there on out. 

Any time a kid makes a team, someone else got cut.  Maybe one mulligan here, but if he repeats, I don't know how the varsity could risk having a repeat of having its roster be short one guy, and having a kid who would've valued the bench role unfairly left out.

I've dealt with this over the years as a coach.  Each situation is different.  In our program, he would have heard the speech a few times leading up to cuts that each player needs to think about the level of commitment and work effort necessary and let us know with certainty that they will be all in as a program player and teammate if they are chosen, regardless of their role.  We discuss how they, if chosen, are about to take a spot away from another who has worked hard and shown willingness to make that commitment.  So, someone quitting a week after making it on the team would be cause for serious discussion upon leaving.  But, still, it happens.  These are teens we're talking about.

The player would have to convince me that he deserves another chance and if he does so, would have to address his teammates.  Depending on the situation, that would likely be some sort of apology and pledge to commit to them.  He may take on some extra "duties", at least initially, to clearly prove he is sincere.   In the particular instance the OP describes, he would have to convince me that he is willing to be a fully supportive team player, regardless of what his role may be.  It is of particular concern that such a player would be a negative influence on the team if he is again in a situation where he is unhappy with playing time.   I don't care how good of a player he is.  (There are also serious concerns as to why a kid would make determinations on his playing time opportunities after just a week but I'll chalk that one up to diluted gossip stories, which is a whole other topic the OP may want to consider)

Sometimes, these situations are great learning opportunities and light bulb moments, not only for the player in question, but for the coach to show that he will consistently hold players accountable and for the other players to see that.   And, at the same time, that a second chance should be given if deserved and if adjustments/corrections/improvements have been made.

PS - I see I was typing same time as Midlo... same message.

The reality is the first part of the equation is his potential versus the talent pool. Where he sits on this sliding scale is a consideration in most programs. A pitcher who can bring it on a team with no pitching repairs his reputation quickly in most programs. 

The player better come to me rather than just show up. I want to hear an apology and some passion to play. He also has to apologize to the players he quit on last year.

I’m explaining to him he really has to earn it. For now tie breakers go to players who never quit. But given time, proper attitude and proper work ethic past disgressions will be forgotten. 

I’ll remind even if he’s not playing right away he’s rebuilding his reputation as much as he’s proving his talent. He can erase the past by how he carries himself.

Pro athletes who should know better get second chances. A high school kid who is learning should get one too. 

Bottom line is that if he is talented, he can get away with it. If he's a fringe player, then the old "loyalty" bit comes into play.

57special posted:

Bottom line is that if he is talented, he can get away with it. If he's a fringe player, then the old "loyalty" bit comes into play.

Respectfully disagree.  I've turned away more than a few talented players due to issues like this.  Set rules, guidelines and expectations and be consistent with them.  But don't be blind and heartless to a kid who may be going through some things.   Pretty simple.  Pretty important, IMO.

On the other hand, there have been times when I will hang on to a kid longer than many perceive that I should.  To the parents, and sometimes even the other players, they think it is because of talent or some other favoritism.  That is never the case.  Sometimes, the kid is going thru stuff and is far better served remaining within our structure.  Sometimes it is stuff that can't or shouldn't be made public.  I bring this up for the OP.  It's really best not to judge, speculate or gossip about the standing of other kids on the team or in the program.  Support them all.  Support the whole team as a team.  Things will work out far better for you, your son and everyone else involved if you (and hopefully the other parents) take that approach.

Who cares? If he can play, let him play. If he can't play, don't put him on the team.

2019OF posted:

Who cares? If he can play, let him play. If he can't play, don't put him on the team.

Sometimes less is more. One time I tossed a kid I gave a second chance. The team relaxed and played better.

Also, a coach has to be careful not to undermine his authority. Some kids will walk all over a coach, or at least attempt to if they perceive their talent allows it. 

I didn’t invite two talented players to return the following year. They were good. But not as good as daddy told them. They became a problem. 

I will also say sometimes the parents of other kids never have the full story.  In the ops instance he heard it from someone who knew about the situation.  Unless you have the full story from the coach and the kid, where they both collaborate each others story, you most likely do not know the whole story.  

Schools and coaches deal with a vast amount of issues outside the sports.  Many of these have an influence on what happens on the field.  Choices must be made day after day and some of the outcomes are based on outside factors, not just what happens during practice or on the field.  

In many instances a kid may leave a team or be asked to leave a team and the story of why this happened is no where near what actually happened.  The coach and school know this and the player knows this as well.   Under the law the school has to keep many things private and most of the time will never comment on what is happening to an underaged child.  Many times they will also just keep quiet to allow the child and his family some leeway to "save face".  

For instance say there is a player with a personal issue.  Lets say drugs.  The player in question is a Sr.  The coach finds out and has a discussion with the kid.  In the end it is decided that the kid should leave the team.  The school/coach can not comment on the situation.  The player is going around telling everyone he is leaving the team as he wants to join the military and wants to enjoy the last semester of his Sr year before going away.  Folks will think the kid just quit the team but in reality he was kicked off the team.  The school wont comment as it involves a minor so the only story out there is the kids.  One which make him look better then what is reality.  

So, in the ops instance.  We do not really know why the kid left the team.  We have the info being passed around by the parents, but their may be a lot more to the story.  The kid may have had some type of external influence that caused him to leave the team.  Maybe it was a family issue, maybe he was struggling in school, maybe mental health, maybe drugs, maybe nothing, he did really quit because he thought he was better.  In any case we do not really know why he left the team.  Im sure the coach knows and based on the information will make a decision on his ability to make the team the next year.

Maybe he went to the coach and decided it was best for him to play with a team that he would play more and get better.  As a coach, if a kid came to me and said I have this opportunity to go play every weekend with a team where I will play more and believe I will get better I would probably go tell him to go if it was 9th grade we were talking about and he had to be young anyways.  We just never know the situation.  I did have a kid who wanted to come back after they quit in the middle of the season and I gave them a set of things they would have to do before being allowed to play since we had a no cut rule.  After much thought, the kid and/or his parents decided he didn't want to play that bad.  One of the big ones was apologizing to the team and the fact he would have to practice and play the first part of the season with JV no matter how good he was. 

A freshman should always get a 2nd chance in this situation. he is 14 for god sake...I am not a bleeding heart by any means but WTH it is freshman baseball. He may be a bad apple and you can cut him in a heartbeat later if you so choose but what amounts to HS ban for leaving as a freshman just is silly.

I don't think they really become a true "team" or "unit" until they get to varsity. Until you get to that level the games don't matter. The players know it, the coaches know it, the umpires know it. That's not to say the players and coaches don't care but it really has no meaning. He quits as a junior and tries to come back as a senior that is a different story. 

Take him back, but don't do him any favors when it comes to tryouts and earning playing time. 

So don’t give a fair shot? We all play in summer and fall in a club ball atmosphere where players are on the team on year, leave the next, then back again. No sane Coach is gonna have a guy sit the bench if he can contribute. If you are trying to teach the kid a loyalty lesson, I don’t think it fits any more.

It is High School baseball.  It is an extra curricular activity on par with the Band or Chess Club.  Would anyone be wringing their hands over the "messages" being sent there?  If you would then I suppose you can here as well.  We do love to significantly overstate the value of sports and the lessons they impart. 

IMO it would require a felony or violence committed against another person to stop anyone from trying out.  Any other rationale would be capricious and grounds for AD and coach to be dismissed.

Judgement of keeping player should be limited to on field performance and how the player interacts with teammates i.e. is not disruptive.  If he can play and is a functioning part of the unit - he should be on the team regardless of when he shows up to tryout.

Luv, he quit on his teammates after the team was chosen and did so AFTER ONE WEEK and possibly cost another young man a roster spot.  I would consider that disruptive and possibly poor interaction with teammates. 

 Certainly worth vetting out before allowing another tryout, IMO.  

Same scenario happened at my sons school except it was the last week of his 9th grade season, on JV because we don't have a 9th grade team.  Kid up and quit.  10th grade the kid asked the coach if he could try out again.  Coach said "Anyone is allowed to tryout, but it would take a lot for me to overlook that you abandoned your team last year"....kid didn't try out.  Who's to say if he would have made it again, but he didn't even try, which I think spoke volumes.

In every school, I have coached there are requirements for being allowed to tryout for a sport or be a part of any extracurricular.  That includes behavior in the classroom, one school had every teacher sign off that they thought you had earned the opportunity and if not the player and parents were allowed to meet with AD to discuss.  Grades, my last school would not let you tryout or be in extracurricular if you had a D in any subject.  And lots of other things.

I don't think it is a matter of his ability.  It is whether you trust him.  And as I told my son who coaches high school this year and is dealing with a tough situation with a player they should have cut.  When you keep trouble you get trouble.  Maybe the kid learned but maybe not.

2022OFDAD, I know a lot of travel coaches, most I would say, that if you left their organization in the middle of the season would not let you back.  They would keep your money but would not trust you in the future.  If you are a bottom player who is going to sit the bench then they might let you to get your free money but if you are a starter and quit one week into the season this year and go somewhere else and play, they are not gonna let you back next year.  They would be scrambling trying to fill your spot with an equally level player.  Or maybe you would but no way I would. 

PitchingFan posted:

In every school, I have coached there are requirements for being allowed to tryout for a sport or be a part of any extracurricular.  That includes behavior in the classroom, one school had every teacher sign off that they thought you had earned the opportunity and if not the player and parents were allowed to meet with AD to discuss.  Grades, my last school would not let you tryout or be in extracurricular if you had a D in any subject.  And lots of other things.

I don't think it is a matter of his ability.  It is whether you trust him.  And as I told my son who coaches high school this year and is dealing with a tough situation with a player they should have cut.  When you keep trouble you get trouble.  Maybe the kid learned but maybe not.

2022OFDAD, I know a lot of travel coaches, most I would say, that if you left their organization in the middle of the season would not let you back.  They would keep your money but would not trust you in the future.  If you are a bottom player who is going to sit the bench then they might let you to get your free money but if you are a starter and quit one week into the season this year and go somewhere else and play, they are not gonna let you back next year.  They would be scrambling trying to fill your spot with an equally level player.  Or maybe you would but no way I would. 

I would agree with pretty much across the board if we weren't talking about a freshman. Also it is pretty obviously a young freshman if he had the option go play spring travel ball with 8th graders.

My gut tells me that he probably won't work in the long run but 14 is to early to quit on a kid who has talent.

Honestly what is down side? he is a now a sophomore with no real influence in the program at a Varsity level, if he is a problem over the winter he doesn't have to make the team. If he is problem during the actual season you nip it quickly and the send the needed message to the rest of the program by cutting ASAP. If he isn't good enough but has ok attitude he will certainly not be back due to lack of playing time...as a coach I see nothing but potential upside and you control all the cards to mitigate any downside.

Requirements to tryout? Be a student at the school and turn in a physical to me showing you are ok for participation.

Requirements to make the team? Same as above. Be talented enough to help the program. Show enough promise that one day you might help the program. Be coachable and respectful. Be qualified academically. You are not a clown in the class room. 

I really don't care if the kid quit the year before. The moment that team played it's last game that team no longer exists. Kids make mistakes. Kids do all kinds of things for all kinds of reasons. Kids deal with things that we are not always privileged to. Kids change a lot from year to year. Everyone deserves an opportunity for a second chance. 

I look at it like this. If I am wrong and the kid quits again I can live with that a lot easier than I can with wondering if I had given him a chance would he have turned it around?

I have only had two kids quit and then come back out later. One was cut because he simply was not good enough to make varsity. The other had a very productive career. I am not saying your wrong if you disagree. I comfortable with how I handle it. 

Our high school has a rule if a student is caught in an alcohol related situation they are suspended from extracurricular activities for 90 days. If tryouts are during that period the player is SOL.

My son was at a busted party in town where everyone was breathalyzed. He blew a zero and allowed to leave. I asked him how he managed to not measure. His response was, “I told you I don’t drink.” He would walk around parties with an empty beer can so he wouldn’t be pressured into having a drink.

He didn’t drink at all until senior year. My daughter didn’t drink until college. They still won’t even drink soda. 

The school also has a rule pending criminal charges are an automatic extracurricular activity suspension. I figure at some point it will be challenged on right to due process. The one kid I know who got suspended knew he was going to be found guilty of assaulting a cop. He went on to play football in the SEC. 

RJM posted:

 

My son was at a busted party in town where everyone was breathalyzed. He blew a zero and allowed to leave. I asked him how he managed to not measure. His response was, “I told you I don’t drink.” He would walk around parties with an empty beer can so he wouldn’t be pressured into having a drink.

 

You know its funny.  I was just talking with my kids about HS drinking.  We drove by the old Taco Bell where everyone in our town ended up on the weekend nights.  The local police would drive up, block the driveway and search every car and would breathalyze kids.  As an adult I realize that is totally illegal.

Our town has a presence restriction law which make it illegal for a minor to be at a party where other minors are drinking.  Its basically the same punishment as drinking at the party.  IMO its a stupid law that does not do what it was intended to do.  It was intended to discourage kids from hanging out with kids who are drinking.  Instead it punishes kids who decide to do the smart thing and not drink.  In addition it takes away one of the incentives for the designated drivers.  I keep waiting on someone to challenge this law as it assumes all are guilty rather then the presumption of innocence.  

When it came to school sports our kids had to sign a contract that lasts the remainder of the school year.  If they are caught drinking or receive a presence restriction violation they are suspended from extra curricular activities for 2 weeks for a 1st offense.  The remainder of the season for a 2nd and banned from sports for 1 year for a 3rd.  If they are busted before they sign the contract for the year their is no real school penalty.  So if you are a baseball player you don't sign your contract until the 2nd semester so you are free to do what you want to do the first semester.  

Isn’t an assault charge a requirement to play in the SEC anyway? Box checked!

cabbagedad posted:

Luv, he quit on his teammates after the team was chosen and did so AFTER ONE WEEK and possibly cost another young man a roster spot.  I would consider that disruptive and possibly poor interaction with teammates. 

 Certainly worth vetting out before allowing another tryout, IMO.  

Cabbage - cannot argue this is a good look.  As his Father I would have been pushing to honor the commitment. 

I have seen dozens of people in my life quit jobs only to come crawling back a few months to a year later with hat in hand.  They often get rehired and those are typically much more disruptive than bailing on a Freshman baseball team because backfilling often requires several months to a year before positions are truly replaced.  I am sure the freshman baseball was all squared away after a game or two at most. 

So I stick to my view: unless there is something really shady involved he gets a tryout.  Keep or cut on the same merits as everyone else.  

luv baseball posted:

cabbagedad posted:

Luv, he quit on his teammates after the team was chosen and did so AFTER ONE WEEK and possibly cost another young man a roster spot.  I would consider that disruptive and possibly poor interaction with teammates. 

 Certainly worth vetting out before allowing another tryout, IMO.  

Cabbage - cannot argue this is a good look.  As his Father I would have been pushing to honor the commitment. 

I have seen dozens of people in my life quit jobs only to come crawling back a few months to a year later with hat in hand.  They often get rehired and those are typically much more disruptive than bailing on a Freshman baseball team because backfilling often requires several months to a year before positions are truly replaced.  I am sure the freshman baseball was all squared away after a game or two at most. 

So I stick to my view: unless there is something really shady involved he gets a tryout.  Keep or cut on the same merits as everyone else.  

I hear ya and agree with you and Old School that it is somewhat less of an issue as a freshman, if only due to the younger age.  But, I also stick to my view and respectfully disagree with another of your earlier statements as well...

     "...We do love to significantly overstate the value of sports and the lessons they impart.... "

It was important for me to not only develop the baseball side but to also use the environment as a teaching platform.  I took it seriously (yes, I'm sure, too much so at times).  I've said it here several times... the on-field success was important but even more important was seeing boys become good solid young men.  A HS sports program and coaches are front and center to these young men for more waking hours in the week than any single parent or teacher in most cases (at least for 4-6 months of the year).  The rules, guidelines and expectations they set and the manner in which they are upheld are an influential part of forming the character of those kids.  You'll never convince me otherwise.  I've seen it play out too often and for far too long.

Yes, you are correct... freshman baseball would be just fine without the player.  That wouldn't be my concern at all in regards to a possible later return by that player.  I would only be concerned with the messages and lessons this player and others in the program are picking up on in how this is handled.

For a while, I think our baseball program stood out as the leading example in that regard as compared to other sports at the school.  Fortunately, a new AD came in 4 yrs ago and has many of the same strong beliefs (as do most HS federations, at least in principal) and incorporated that philosophy into the school guidelines.  So, now, if a kid quit any program, there would most likely be discussion between the AD and coach before allowing a do-over.  In fact, one rule at our HS is that if a player quits a sport, he cannot begin participating in any other sport until the team of the sport he quit completes their season.  The message is clear and a good one, IMO... follow through on your commitment to your team, teammates and coaches.  Since she came on board, I see an improvement in overall morale at the school with sports and in general as well as improvements in other areas that I believe are a reflection of holding to these principals. 

I do think, in most instances, the kid should be allowed to try out again.  I just think it should be talked through and any applicable lessons learned should be expressed.

So, regarding your other statement in that post...

    "IMO it would require a felony or violence committed against another person to stop anyone from trying out.     Any other rationale would be capricious and grounds for AD and coach to be dismissed."

... as others have stated, most HS administrations and federations have much tighter written standards than felony  for kids to participate in HS sports.  An AD would be more likely to be dismissed if he/she DIDN'T take all the necessary steps to assure a player is eligible in every manner to try out, as well as making sure everyone was aware of past team issues, etc..  And the coaches are largely held to those same standards.

Cabbage -

I think sports and coaches can and often do all the things you suggest and wouldn't dispute the notion.  I was submitting the idea that often bleeds through here that sports are somehow imbued with some mystic power that they are the only or even the best potential source of such discipline or mentor interactions.  

A good coach lends quite a bit to young people's development. It's a sports site so folks tend to get their thumb on the scales in the overall value of sports...IMO.  Would never contend there is no value since that would be foolish...only that frequently we go overboard in the valuation and like any good stock it needs the occasional pullback.  

Not to hijack things but a bad coach can have the complete opposite effect.

The felony comment - hyperbole for emphasis.  But as others noted the sentiment is that on the face of the OP the actions by the player in question do not warrant a shunning.  If school districts have tighter rules that are known and uniformly enforced - no problem here as long as it isn't some tin hat administrator writing stupid things on a power trip.

Well said and understood.