the h/school coach dont like my swing !!

Be very respectful and tell him you are currently working with someone. You feel very comfortable with the way you are hitting and to give you (?)number of at bats and if your not successful you'll work with him on some of those changes.
Hopefully you'll hit so well he won't want to change any thing

I would not say anything about working with another coach. I would just say "yes sir" and keep on working away. You will get the opportunity to hit in a game soon enough and if you produce he will soon forget about it. JMHO

quote:

I would just say "yes sir"

I've had so many different hitting coaches over my career, all of them good, and they've all told me different things. Obviously you can't make everybody happy, so here's my advice.

1. Listen to what your coach has to say, even if you disagree with 95% of it, he may say one little thing that you may find useful.

2. Be respectful, and i would let him know that you've been taking lessons, that would give your ideas more credibility in his eyes.

3. Swing the way you know best, and MASH! If you show the results, he'll back off.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
I would not say anything about working with another coach. I would just say "yes sir" and keep on working away. You will get the opportunity to hit in a game soon enough and if you produce he will soon forget about it. JMHO

Great advice, "say yes sir" and "opps" I did not mean to hit the homerun.....I am trying to do better.

First of all be thankful you have a coach that "teaches", I've seen very few (that "I've" seen very few).

We had a similar issue with pitching. My advice to my son was take what you can use, incorporate it, and work around the rest.

My son has endured this for years including his current college team. Here is what has happened at every level (including college): He listens respectfully and then continues to swing the way he knows how without making changes. Every time (and I mean every time), the hitting coach has complimented my son on successfully implementing what the coach wants!

Translation: These coaches don't know what they're seeing. Worse, they see only what they want to.

Do what you've been successful at doing with two caveats: First, my son has learned something from nearly every coach he's had. Usually it's been something about the two-strike approach or how to recognize a pitcher tipping off his pitches, how to mentally prepare, etc. The point is that there is something, most of the time, to be learned from any coach. Second, good coaches coach at two levels. The first is the level you're at; the coach wants you to be successful right now. The second is for the next level up. Most high school swings that I have seen will not work well at the next level. Changes need to be made to be successful. This is true at all levels until you hit the major leagues. And even major leaguers continue to improve their swings and refine what they do. Nobody successful ever stops learning and improving.

So be aware of these two caveats, and continue to be respectful of your coach.

so what do coachess do? had to ask. As far as the coach not liking your swing. In my experience the proof is in the pudding. If the kid is hitting leave him alone. If it aint broke dont fix it.

Will

I agree--- you dont mess with what works--when the kid goes into slump them you talk about what he can do to help himself and he will be more acceptable to the advice

Hi Jim,
You use the words "old rotation" and " "bug squish" ". First of all, didn't the bug squish term originate from the Lau era? And second of all, when you talk about the "old rotation" style, are you talking about the way Barry Bonds, Pujols, Griffey or any of the top major leaguers hit today?

Perhaps your new coach is trying to help you swing like these big leaguers. If there is any possibility that you have the desire and ability to play professional ball some day, then swinging like the best professionals as soon as you can will probably serve you well. If on the other hand, your career will be ending at your current level, it's probably not worth it for you or your coach to pay the price it's going to take to learn to hit like these pros.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Will

I agree--- you dont mess with what works--when the kid goes into slump them you talk about what he can do to help himself and he will be more acceptable to the advice

What will be difficult is when a player goes into a slump and you start changing things at that point, you will most likely compound the problems. I prefer establishing good mechanics off season and when slumps happen, stress what has worked in the past and get back to what he has been trained to do instead of changing things at that point.

There are not good or bad styles. But there are styles that it works for you and others doesn't.
If you are doing well with the linear hitting you have to keep it, but that doesn't mean that the rotational style it is not good.
I am going to agree with some of the posters that said:
Say yes to the coach, and do what you want to do, if you hit, he will let you along.

As some of the posters have said always listen to what the coach says. Ask him what he sees that needs changing. Discuss it with the outside batting instructor. Take what you can use.

Last night the coaches were trying to change my sons swing also. I told him exactly what is being said. Always be respectful, take what you can from what they are telling you and continue to hit the way you know how. Once the games start and you hit they will leave you alone. He also has followed the Charlie Lau theory of hitting, including releasing the top hand a lot after contact which is what the coaches have an issue with but if you keep your head on the ball at contact you have to release after.

If you were being taught to squish the bug, you weren't being taught rotational in the first place. If you were, someone didn't understand the process. Being taught Lau or any other method linear or roational has a lot to do with what you believe in, how hard you work to practice it and how precise you are in your reps. Personally, I'm a rotational coach. You'd have a lot of trouble here if you weren't successful. However, I'd give you that chance to fail first.

One additional thought. If you are so convinced in your method, it'll prove itself on the field. If not, those that hit in the coache's prescribed manner are going to play and you're going to sit.

BTW, where (state) do you play? We can't start for another couple of weeks.

Coach I think that is all any kid can ask for is a chance. However, when a coach trys to change something without ever seeing a kid on the field in game situations that I believe is an issue. It sounds like you give a kid a chance to be successful with what he is comfortable with. If he isn't than he has to change and should want to change but if he is than you would leave him alone. I guess that what I'm getting at is there is no cookie cutter way to hit or pitch in your program.

Big1toe, no we don't believe in "cookie cutters." We do believe in taking a hitter and letting them run with what they do. However, in the end, we have a "base" which I've often alluded to in hitting posts that we will bring them to when it's time for change. From that, we let them be individuals. Pitching is much the same way although we've identified some traits that we think are dangerous. Our opinion. We would sit down with that player and their parents to show video to discuss proposed changes if we think that what they are doing is dangerous. (One example throwing in a manner where the finish after release involves the thumb on the pitching hand to be "up." If so, that pitcher is probably throwing with slider spin and could hurt their arm. If we can make a change in mechanics fine. If we have to redo everything (drastic change), time for a talk.

FWIW… A couple things

First… It was mentioned the swing was refined with Charlie Lau for two years. Just wondering if that meant using Charlie Lau’s techniques or actually working with him personally?

Next… This is a problem that pops up once in awhile every year on here. It’s a tough one to answer without knowing your coach. As a general rule… young players are usually best off thinking “The coach is always right” even when he is not right! Easier said than done sometimes.

Last… A personal experience. My second oldest boy was a flat out great hitter with awesome power in high school and college. He still holds about every hitting recrord at his high school. I would watch him hit and shake my head. He was too straight up and down (narrow stance) and started from a still hands position (no load). I often thought about changing him, but he was the best HS hitter I had ever seen. I decided to leave him alone because he was having great results.

When he got to pro ball he couldn’t hit his way out of a wet paper bag. That is when it dawned on me that I should have changed him years ago. They tried to change him in pro ball, but his habits were very well established. He had problems changing what he had been doing wrong his whole life.

It was a live and learn experience for yours truly. I should have apologized to him, but got caught up in all the early success. Deep down I knew his swing wouldn't work in professional baseball, but I convinced myself that he might be the exception.

Coach, you would sit down with him and the parents? I get the impression they don't want us involved at all and quite honestly I don't think I should be involved anymore. If what is wrong could cause an injury then it has to be pointed out. My son works hard on his pitching also which is really his goal but he doesn't want to just pitch in HS. What do you think of releasing the top hand on the bat after contact? Is it wrong? Charlie Lau did teach it this way.

PG great point what works in high school may not at higher levels and then it's too late.

Keep an open mind and be respectful at all times.

The day you think you have it all figured out and decide to completely tune out the opinions and theories of others is very likely the day you stop progressing as a hitter...especially being at the HS level. Good luck young man

PG,

Well said! While it is too late to change anything now for your son, I've read enough of your posts to know that by sharing your experience with others and giving them a chance to learn from it, the guilt you feel over it will lessen.

A few posts above yours, I said something nearly identical.

My personal experiece is similar to yours. As we all know, hind-sight is 20-20. I did ok in spite of my swing but could never reach my ultimate goal because of it. That is why when I am working with my sons or others who have potential to play at a high level, I am never hesitant to explain why they may want to make changes to their swings despite their current success. It's up to them to buy in and "pay the price" to make the changes. The longer they wait to do so, the harder it becomes.

I've read a lot of helpful things on this site, but I believe your feelings on this issue, especially given your knowledge and experience is a gem for others. I strongly suggest that everybody reread what you said and never forget it.

Of course the next step is to find someone or some way to learn what some of us had to learn the hard way.

Since this is going to end up on another page, the following is what PG wrote and in my personal opinion is some of the best advice anyone who wishes to hit at a high level or their parent will read and need to understand.

Quote by PG "Last… A personal experience. My second oldest boy was a flat out great hitter with awesome power in high school and college. He still holds about every hitting recrord at his high school. I would watch him hit and shake my head. He was too straight up and down (narrow stance) and started from a still hands position (no load). I often thought about changing him, but he was the best HS hitter I had ever seen. I decided to leave him alone because he was having great results.

When he got to pro ball he couldn’t hit his way out of a wet paper bag. That is when it dawned on me that I should have changed him years ago. They tried to change him in pro ball, but his habits were very well established. He had problems changing what he had been doing wrong his whole life.

It was a live and learn experience for yours truly. I should have apologized to him, but got caught up in all the early success. Deep down I knew his swing wouldn't work in professional baseball, but I convinced myself that he might be the exception. " end quote by PG

quote:

What will be difficult is when a player goes into a slump and you start changing things at that point,

the person is in a slump because he is not doing what he did before.

quote:

Originally posted by bb1:
Coach, you would sit down with him and the parents? I get the impression they don't want us involved at all and quite honestly I don't think I should be involved anymore.

In this scenerio, you are talking about a pitcher that makes the team that has mechanics that could hurt the pitcher. I have a parent on this site that can explain better than I what we do. We've already began discussion on how we are going to use his son and have a trainer involved already due to the nature of the injury - football injury. If that parent wishes, he can comment on what we do, and the line we establish with parents.

I have coached for 15 years, I show the kids how I think you should hit a baseball.

I tell them that what I teach comes from what I have studied, by watching hour after hour of video (in slow motion) of great hitters, from what I have read, from what I have heard and seen in person from top hitting instructors, and from my own expierences of watching hitters live. I have educated myself the best I know how, and they should do the same.

Now, I point out all of these things and tell them that maybe they can pick up something from my expierence to make them a better hitter, I do not force feed it. Above all, if I have a kid that is hitting the baseball I do not make drastic changes, I only point out things that I tell him may make him a great hitter from being a good hitter. Just give it a try, baseball is a game of very minor adjustments.

CV

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
… Deep down I knew his swing wouldn't work in professional baseball, but I convinced myself that he might be the exception.

I’ve never been a hitting guy, but I’ve been around a lot of them that have said they’d just the opposite on more than a few occasions too. Not that what your saying doesn’t happen, but that there are some hitters who do the things that will work at higher levels, but because they aren’t physically mature yet, or perhaps just don’t get the opportunity for other reasons, they don’t have much success at lower levels.

Then one day they get into the right position and just blossom, and people just sit around with their jaws on the ground wondering what happened.

Both ways end up being a waste of time to some degree

pg i respect your advise - some of the others dont seem as open .i have been with charlie lau's instruction and staff and will see him again this march. i have perfected this style of hitting and play on one of his instructors aau team. i just got picked for a spot on the ectb jr. olympic team as the starting catcher . my skills have me playing 1-3 yrs up depending on the oposition . i used to kill the ball hitting rotational but average and team support sufferd. i didn't think this would work for me but it does (thanks dad for sticking by me) the only problem is this h/s hitting coach and my aau coach are in a bit of rivalry .he rents our indoor training facility from our aau coach to do lessons. and i'm in the middle. they have digi video analized my swing and it looks great . but when i go to the clinic with the h/s coach he throws the soft toss from the oposite batters box at my center of gravity its in the spot i would hit a outside pitch .so he see's my hips not going around and says i should try to pull the ball???? . my bellybutton follows the ball my dad says . if i get him to throw it out front edge of the plate i can let it get across my body and turn on it /pull and he's all happy . he has no L-screen to throw from in front . my dad told me to be respectfull and come home and de-program. so i do . the jv coach is curious of me hitting inside pitchs and ability to hit a 2seamer riding in. so he pitched to me and saw how i hit it where its pitched . too bad the hitting coach didn't see us . please dont think i'm whinning or trying to start a debate . this style has helped me it's not for everyone.we went to this because the rotation had me fouling off anything that wasnt middle in (did take out a starting pitcher with a 17 pitch walk )mostly he can't watch whats happening with the naked eye and doesn't know what is right for this style . he knows i was taught this but kinda gets lost by it. he trys to incorporate the lau drills into his clinic which seems to be a cross style of all hitting styles . i keep my head on the ball and can check swing now . my batspeed at contact is up and so is my confidence .i want the bat when it's on the line!!! as far as the best hitters in the game i can name a few that use linear ,go to the ball,top hand realease,pull the knob . all the best hitters have most off these traights
PG AND COACH THANKS FOR THE COMMENTS I'LL LET THE BAT TALK! IF I CAN JUST GET HIM TO PITCH TO ME SO I CAN KNOCK THE COVER OFF OR THE L-SCREEN OVER HE'LL LET ME BE HUH??? all kidding aside i have learned from everybody .my dad has told me that everybody has something to offer you just gotta find the ring the cow swallowed in the poop!

For the record SBK...... Bug Squish has nothing to do with lau's swing. The body moves forward like the following record hitters george brett ,hank aaron, a-rod ,ted williams ECT. .
the back foot gets a 60-40 weight shift to 40 -60 at the point of contact to a finnish up on the toe . You dont try to grind the rear foot into a pivot point to spin on. It's more like a golf swing that the plane is elevated . Amagine if Tiger Woods stayed on his back foot and squished how far the ball would go !!!
SORRY COULD NOT RESIST -JIM'S DAD

This is a tough situation. I think it is important to try what your coaches are asking you to do, and that they see you trying.

When the games start, and you are hitting the cover off the ball, they will know they have trained a great hitter.

Now I understand what we truly have here. The last couple of posts have really cleared it up for me. So I will leave this one alone I have already been acused of running F&R off. Good Luck Coach your going to need it.

quote:

I tell them that what I teach comes from what I have studied, by watching hour after hour of video (in slow motion) of great hitters, from what I have read, from what I have heard and seen in person from top hitting instructors,

I think in order to be successful in anything you have to have an open mind but most of all be a good listener. If there was one way to do it everybody would look the same.

quote:

I think in order to be successful in anything you have to have an open mind but most of all be a good listener. If there was one way to do it everybody would look the same.

Style is so important to individuals in this game...I couldnt agree with you more.

.

PG,

Great story!...But with all due respects (and I have not seen your son hit)...I would disagree

Now, you've been "to the mountain", so I don't have to tell you any of this...BUT...

While mechanics are certainly a part of the equation at the elite level, After years of working with/assessing athletes you realize that success is a great deal more complex than pure mechanics, or lack thereof. Technical, mental, physical, emotional and spiritual, and genetic components all come into play.

While you are easy scapegoat(mechanics are an easy blame for all ills - just look at the hitting thread!), I'm not so sure you can blame the end result on your mechanics. Your son likely never would have acheived such lofty heights without your expertise, and hard work. I would argue that in the end there was a bigger picture.

44
.

quote:

he has no L-screen to throw from in front

Buy an L screen for the team and maybe the coach will leave you alone.

Hi Jim's Dad,

For the record, I believe anyone who grew up in the Lau era remembers hearing about "Squish the bug" ad nauseum. I'm also not sure why you brought up Ted Williams name. Many consider him the Godfather of today's rotational hitting.

I wish your son the best and have no interest telling him how to hit through my key board.

The reason I added my .02 was because Jim used the words "old rotation". I was just curious what he was taught in the past that led him to use these words. That's the reason I asked if he was talking about the way Barry Bonds, Pujols, Griffey or any of the top major leaguers hit today?

I thought perhaps in the past he might have been given some bad advice that left a bad taste in his mouth and perhaps the new coach was actually someone who would like to show him how the current top major leaguers are hitting. I was just trying to help.

As far as the Lau hitting style, I get a kick out of going to their site and see pictures of Bonds and Griffey as examples of their style. If they took their hands directly to the ball as the Lau linear style directs, I doubt anyone would have ever heard about them.

SBK- Amen to that. Griffey Clip
CV

quote:

While mechanics are certainly a part of the equation at the elite level, After years of working with/assessing athletes you realize that success is a great deal more complex than pure mechanics, or lack thereof. Technical, mental, physical, emotional and spiritual, and genetic components all come into play.

Observer44, right on. My son's mechanics have been praised by a number of people including a D1 batting coach who is highly esteemed, but his averages remain in the low .300's. Son's current hitting instructor says he thinks the problem is mainly between son's 2 ears and increasingly, sessions are geared toward addressing the mental aspect of his game. There's a lot more to hitting than good mechanics.

Probem?...hitting over 300?..waoo!

I firmly believe that even with excellent mechanics at the plate the toughest aspect is believing that you can hit---I love the kid who wants to be at the plate as the winning run and the bases loaded with two out

I have seen kids with not exactly great mechanics but they hit the hell out of the ball because of their confidence in themselves

BOTTOM line..he doesnt like your swing..He may be an idiot,,BUT he doesnt like your swing..

there are morons everywhere in life not just baseball..get used to it..

my kid had batspeed as a sophomore second to only one senior. and an arm like a cannon.Coach thought he lunged..CUT..
dont let that discourage you..just cause the math teacher coach doesnt like your swing doesnt mean its wrong.

Maybe he had to make room for his friends kid? who knows..Coaches are people too and can get swayd by many things..when my kid got cut the kids themselves told him he got screwed,,and he did, BUT thats life and politics.
Great talent in our school but never even a sniff of ever being in contention..they make the team freshman year and keep it throughout the next 4..NO MATTER WHAT!

wogdoggy


I think you have a problem---OUCH !!!!

You must be fun at the dinner table

come on by ill eat you!.lol

what are you going to do if the coach doesnt like your swing?
this is the coaches way of cutting you..
what if the coach doesnt like your kids swing? you gonna try and re tool it as a freshman? probably not,bottom line is the kid wont be playing for that coach..not for breakfast lunch or dinner!

wogdoggy

Not even worth a response especially after your post in another thread about aluminum bats


Hope I dont go to the KNOCKOUT LIST for this--- DARN IT !!!!

quote:

Originally posted by cvsting:
SBK- Amen to that. Griffey Clip
CV

I love that clip. I used it with one of Frank Thomas where his foot pulls right off the ground to talk to my kid about rotation and not Squishing the bug. Helped a lot :-)

quote:

Not even worth a response especially after your post in another thread about aluminum

whats wrong with that response? do you think that ball would have went anywhere with a wood bat?..you got a whole thread of people telling him about bat lag and many faults.. and you come down on me for an aluminum bat comment? get real!

wogdoggy,

Are you a closet scorekeeper?

lol...no keep..the guy needs help or a daytime card game.

I got several problems with this whole thread and I hope I don't make anyone mad with what I am about to put.

First - Where do you find the balance between listening to the high school coach versus the coach you pay to get help from? Especially when the teaching conflicts with each other? I truly believe a coach has to find a system that works for him and teach it widescale (it's easier for one coach to teach 30 guys one way than it is for one coach to learn 30 different ways) but still be flixible to make adjustments for each kid. In this case the high school coach is not flexible and seems to be in a competition with the private coach. Honestly what I do is look at guys swings for about a week and see what they do after I teach them the basics. Then I work off what they do to help improve them. What if the private coach teaches something totally different? How are you able to coexist here?

Second - several threads (other than this one) it seems the general attitude is that high school coaches are not as good as the private ones - maybe I am just being too sensitive over this. You read people talking about how high school coaches play favorites and such. I think high school coaches deserve more respect. I don't know I am probably just being a baby on this one.

Third - I honestly have no clue when you people talk about rotational and linear swings. Could someone post examples of each one on here?

Thanks for letting me vent.

quote:

it seems the general attitude is that high school coaches are not as good as the private ones

quote:

I think high school coaches deserve more respect.

quote:

I honestly have no clue when you people talk about rotational and linear swings.

in general HS coaches ARE NOT as good as private coaches..why? most are math teachers drivers ed teachers etc.The other COACHES make there living in baseball..HOW many HS coaches REALLY know the swing??

sure they deserve respect..If they are honest and are STILL students of the GAME..some become arrogant and dont care to learn anymore


rotational or linear?
you are probably better off not knowing ..HONESTLY..lol

Chameleon,
Did you post something?

Or are you just being a
Your normal don't have a clue, just want to aggrevate fellow posters
Self?
Just was wondering what your little pea brain was thinking?
Well what were you thinking?
Oh I get it, you don't have an answer. Your clueless.
Come on contribute?
Are keep your mouth shut.
Nothing chaps my a$$ more then a person that hides and has nothing to do but put posters down for no good reason.
Trust me if you want to get in a P******match on the hsbbw.
I'll be your huckleberry

EH

wogdoggy, I have to ask. On the Illinois forum you talk about your son pitching freshman year and throwing 130 pitches in a game. On this site you say your son had the second fastest bat speed in the school as a Sophmore but was cut. Then in this section you say the coaches pick the teams freshman year and that is what they stay with for all four years. So what is it, if he was on freshaman year why wasn't he on for all four as you say? I have never seen anyone cut for too much batspeed.

Let's see....

In 38 years the high school existed before me the baseball team had only won three district titles....I have three myself in seven years.

In 38 years of baseball the school had NEVER been to the regional championship game....I have one regional runner up with 8 sophomores starting.

In 38 years of baseball the school had NEVER been ranked in the state.....I have had my teams as high as 15th in the state (KY does not have a class system so that means we were ranked 15th out of EVERY school in the state).

In 38 years of baseball the school had only sent 5 kids to play college ball....I have sent 3 to JUCO programs (One being Indian Hills in Iowa - look it up because they are good), one went to a NCAA D-I, another to a NCAA D-II school and three to NAIA schools. None of those guys had a private / professional coach - they all came through my system as freshmen to senior.

In 38 years of baseball the school usually would play a 15 game schedule....In my 7 years we usually play the maximum amount of games - when we don't it is because we get rained out and cannot find dates to make up the ones we lost.

Last season my team played against 5 kids who got drafted by MLB teams. One was a pitcher who ended up signing with Oklahoma State. We knocked him out of the game by the 4th inning. A scout came up to me after the game and said my guys probably cost him a round or two.

Last season out of my regular 9 starters everyone of them had at least one homerun and our team total was 23 homeruns.

The best teams in our region would not schedule our high school and now we are facing their number one pitchers.

Before I was hired at this high school the field was in a local park and it was a dump. Now it is still at the local park but it is the only field at the park that can actually be played on now. Still have some work to do but it's getting there.

quote:

in general HS coaches ARE NOT as good as private coaches..why? most are math teachers drivers ed teachers etc.The other COACHES make there living in baseball..HOW many HS coaches REALLY know the swing??

And how can you back this up? What kind of statistical information can you provide that shows this is true? My staff consists of myself who played college ball (teaches social studies), my freshman coach who played D--I baseball (who teaches science), my pitching coach who played on the Expos AAA club (who owns his own concrete business) and my JV coach who played on several select teams in high school and college (who works for a bank). Now if you are using playing experience as a factor in being qualified to coach baseball - please explain to me how my staff and I are not as good as a "professional" coach. By the way we go to clinics, order books and videos, talk to college coaches (when our kids are being recruited) about how we can get better and various other things to help us grow as coaches. Granted we pick and choose what we believe will benefit us from the stuff that cannot - isn't that what someone said this kid needs to do (pick the ring out from the elephant stuff).

quote:

rotational or linear?
you are probably better off not knowing ..HONESTLY..lol

In all the clinics and other media my staff and I use to learn I have yet to hear either of those terms to describe the swing. Now I have heard and seen clinicians use the "major league swing" and we use that swing to try and teach to my guys.

quote:

sure they deserve respect..If they are honest and are STILL students of the GAME..some become arrogant and dont care to learn anymore

Thank you but then again the same could be said for the "professional" coach. Some of my guys have went to the private coach route and one of two things happen 1) the ones who are really not that good end coming back worse because they are doing stuff that makes no sense - the Sammy Sosa double foot tap. I am not joking a kid who did not play that much for me because he was so late on pitches went to a private coach. He came back with the Sammy Sosa double foot tap - which made him slower at the plate. Good investment there. 2) A few of my better players went to the same private coach (in my area they have to drive 40 minutes to get to the only one around) and did improve slightly but stopped getting good instruction once they refused to transfer another high school in the area of the private coach. Good ethics there.

Now let me ask you what your qualifications are wogdoggy and chameleon? Are you parents or high school coaches or private coaches? Just tell me what makes you qualified to make the assumption that high school coaches are not as good.

By the way you can't lump high school coaches and private coaches into the same general categories. There are some great high school coaches while there are some that are terrible. There are some great private coaches while there are some terrible ones. Just because you pay great prices for great instruction doesn't mean you are getting great value for your money.

quote:

Just because you pay great prices for great instruction doesn't mean you are getting great value for your money.

Can I get an amen!


AMEN!

Another AMEN from this corner

quote:

Can I get an amen!


AMEN!

quote:

Another AMEN from this corner

I'm going to pass around a collection plate to raise some money for my team.

Thanks guys

Sorry coach, I'm paying for a kid in college.
But I'll give you an Amen.
EH

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
There are some great high school coaches while there are some that are terrible. There are some great private coaches while there are some terrible ones. Just because you pay great prices for great instruction doesn't mean you are getting great value for your money.

I'll give an AMEN! to this quote.

Posted March 20, 2007 08:19 AM Hide Post
wogdoggy, I have to ask. On the Illinois forum you talk about your son pitching freshman year and throwing 130 pitches in a game. On this site you say your son had the second fastest bat speed in the school as a Sophmore but was cut. Then in this section you say the coaches pick the teams freshman year and that is what they stay with for all four years. So what is it, if he was on freshaman year why wasn't he on for all four as you say? I have never seen anyone cut for too much batspeed.


we retooled his swing all summer..bought steve e video and his bottom half and batspeed improved dramatically.there were two teams as freshman as with most schools.his improvement happened after last year.we have a cage in the yard and he took 1000s of swings this year.the hitting instructor I took him to works with many kids at that school and rated his batspeed comparable to some of the better seniors.
The problem is my boy did not have the greatest year last season.ember him comming up with bases loaded and popping up..I knew right then he would have problems this year.Lets face the facts can you see how far any kid can hit a ball in a cage in february? can you see if any kids bat can challenge the outfielders..They needed extra catchers and shortstops.my boy IS NOT a great fielder.but he would take 1000 fly balls every two days to improve just like he practiced his hitting..

IF he hit the ball harder than anyone else in the cage and had a great tryout it wouldnt matter.Its tough proving yourself with 10 pitches in a cage after a poor season last year..

personally I understand the coach needed the second SS or catcher thats life!

But I can also say there are alot of favortism and politics going on as well..some kids make the team cause there brothers played 4 years..some make it because of many reasons..I cant believe some of the talent the coach let go this year,,not my kid but varsity talent as well..

here you have a very large school in the middle of the dupage valley but can never ever get to the top EVER..why is that? Is there that much more talent 1 school district away? Or is it something else..why do some schools always dominate and others always underachieve? why do some schools dominate in wrestling or basketball and other schools dont..it comes down to coaching in my opinion

TEACH your kids a position other than pitching..Obviously it doesnt matter what kina of stick you carry. unless your in the American league..He'll be back next year!

And how can you back this up? What kind of statistical information can you provide that shows this is true? My staff consists of myself who played college ball (teaches social studies), my freshman coach who played D--I baseball (who teaches science), my pitching coach who played on the Expos AAA club (who owns his own concrete business) and my JV coach who played on several select teams in high school and college (who works for a bank). Now if you are using playing experience as a factor in being qualified to coach baseball - please explain to me how my staff and I are not as good as a "professional" coach. By the way we go to clinics, order books and videos, talk to college coaches (when our kids are being recruited) about how we can get better and various other things to help us grow as coaches. Granted we pick and choose what we believe will benefit us from the stuff that cannot - isn't that what someone said this kid needs to do (pick the ring out from the elephant stuff).



see you are STILL students of the game..

I've skimmed this post a few times and I'm just going to make a comment in FAVOR of hs coaches. Yes, there are some hitting instructors that do a great job. But what they don't do is this:
*They don't throw BP every nite to 15 plus guys (some whom they know will never be able to play one inning of varsity ball, but hey they are on the team so they get their cuts)
*They don't monitor all kinds of crazy stuff going on in schools to help your kid grow into the best young adult he can
*They don't take calls from part-time job employers and help them get summer jobs
*They don't write scholarship application letters (lots and lots of letters)
* They don't organize jv, frosh, varsity PROGRAMS (not just one aspect of the game); order supplies, work the field, be a liason between city and school baseball items
* They don't get fired if the high school team falls on hard times
* They do cash your checks though

coach2709 ,loved your response. Was the young man your squad faced ,that is now at OKState,from Owensboro?
If so, keep doing your great job at your location. If the young man is who I think it is,he has done a respectable job here. ERA 3.86, 4 app. 1 start, 1-0, 9.1IP, 10H only 1 extra base hit and it was a 2B and a decent BB/K ratio with 3BB and 7K. He is continuing to learn. If I remember correctly he was drafted in the 34th round by Baltimore.

trojan skipper


Great post

I'm sure there are great HS coaches but I have been living in our town for 20 years and have NEVER heard one positive thing about theis Coach..not from the parents or not even ONE ex player..people actually seem to roll their eyes when his name gets mentioned..and to my knowledge he has NEVER wrote one letter for any kid. the program ALWAYS underachieves..YES there are FANTASTIC HS coaches too.And I would bet with your passion YOU are one of them!

Trojan Skipper I will give you an amen and a little change in the offering plate for that post. Well put.

Coach O that young man is from Owensboro and after re - reading my post I TRULY hope it was not taken as a criticism of his talent. I can see where some might take it that way but I didn't mean it. I wanted to show that my guys can hit although I have no idea what rotational and linear are. From what little I was around him he seemed to be a class act and carried his team deep into the state playoffs. I considered it an honor to face him and he pitched well that game - we just hit the ball well.

wogdoggy - not to start a fight on here but when you say your hitting coach said your son had one of the best bat speeds or whatever...did he say that before or after he cashed your check you gave him? I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing someone like that - if you hear something you don't want to hear you may stop going to him. May not be the case but could be.

When you are selling a product (videos, books, private lessons) you have to sound like your stuff is the best and you use big fancy words - linear / rotational swings. Parents eat that stuff up because if it is a big word then it must be worth it.

When you are selling a program (high school team) you have to use words like tradition, excellence, history, family etc... - you have to put the individual to the side and accept the TEAM.

Maybe your high school coach is terrible - they do exist. Maybe you are upset that your son just got cut and is looking for someone to blame. We will never know.

quote:

Maybe your high school coach is terrible - they do exist. Maybe you are upset that your son just got cut and is looking for someone to blame. We will never know.

The coach IS terrible and like I said they needed another cather or shortstop and that was their needs ,understandable, BUt the school consistently fails year after year in the baseball program yet excels in other sports..does this mean there are just NO good baseball players? Or something else..Like i said i have never heard one good thing about this guy.X players parents etc..one dad had to beg the guy to write his kid a letter after 4 years..

dogg


Do not need a card game when I have people like you
=edited by moderator=

At least I =edited by moderator=

As for "grumpy" I am actually quite sweet and lovable---and I carry no grudge/cross

With all do respect, could we please for the sake of the rest of us keep this post on track. If TR and Wogdoggy feel it necessary to bash and insult each other, then by all means go at it,..but please do it behind private doors via: pm's.


It would be a shame for this post, who so many have a vested interest in, to get locked.

Thank you.
Very sincerely yours,
The Princess of Punctuation and Prude-ness.

shortstopmom is holding the ball guys...and she throws hard and has a pretty good aim...I've got the day old biscuit knots on my head to prove it!

I'd heed her advice.

She slings a wicked boat of hot gravy too!

ssmom/gotwood

When some poster defames me with words as they have I will never back down---ban me if you so desire to but the terms/words they use are insulting especially with the "LOL" attached

I understand what you are saying TR.

Her suggestion to sort it out or battle it out privately is, in my estimation, good advice.

That's all.

got wood


I have no battle---

That's good TR!

Coach2709, I did not take it as any kind of criticism of his talent. I do not think that anyone else who has ever been in a competitive mode did either.
I think that you just exhibited a very good competitive spirit and I want to commend you on a truly worthy display of character, self discipline and sportsmanship. You would be one of the truly worthy opponents.
Good luck to you and your staff.

One thing that has not been mentioned. When I hear that "so and so" great player got cut from the squad at tryouts or is sitting the bench. The HS coach is usually a teacher and sometimes a football or other coach. A teacher has to put up with some of these same kids during the day. If the kid isn't as great as the parent thinks and is border line, if I was the coach - why would I want to have to put up with him for 3 hours practice if he gives me grief during the school day; or gave me grief when I coached him in football; or this other kid played football and looks as good as your kid at tryouts and he was a help/wasn't a pain when I coached him in football. Many people miss this aspect of HS coaching and think also that the HS coach does nothing else in life (like grade papers and prepare lessons for class the next day). The HS coaches are people too.
Oh and they might like to say Hi to the wife and kids sometime.
I used to join in the banter about coaches, but I've seen stuff over the years that tells me I was very wrong.
As far as hitting: Many I have seen at the HS level would do better to forget the "professional style" of instruction and go back in time and read and digest a simple letter written by someone named Ty Cobb. I hear he hit the ball once in a while. Many kids can have great swings/mechanics/bat speed and have just a small problem - getting the bat head on the ball!

Tim Robertson

Well said Tim.

Heck Tim,

There’s a lot of seemingly inexplicable reasons things happen in everyday life, not just on athletic fields. And many times, not all, but many times, when explained, those things become perfectly clear.

The example you gave about the player and teacher is not just one that you pulled out of a hat either. I know that because I’ve seen it more than once, and what happened was at least rationalized, if not justified. I leave it to the philosophers to figure out if its right or wrong, but there is something else that has to be taken into consideration other than just the facts as they were given.

If things were as you suggested, then its at least reasonable that the coach share his thoughts with the player and/or his/her parents if they ask. If not, what’s he accomplished? If the goal is truly to help kids grow and teach them life’s lessons, surely one of those lessons should be that you’re judged on the whole of your actions, not just what’s readily apparent.

Why not give the reasons and thus give the kid the opportunity to modify his/her behavior? Anything less seems to me to be cowardly and intellectually dishonest.

this post is going crazy !!!
its real simple i gotta try to do what the hitting coach says and let my stick show for itself in a game . the oak a's scout says that if i never hit another ball i still gotta a job at my catcher position.so i feel preaty confident . i got rated a 6.5 @ perfect game and i was on my death bed sick as a dog with a 102 fever !!! i'll show em next time .......
and to answer the doubters my hitting instructor is my aau coach and he does all that you say a real h/s coach does . he plans around are school and local ball makes us keep up the grades and sets us up for college ball . our h/s coach does the same thing so i have a real good shot at seeing this to the next level , .thus the reason for the post. i dont want one assistant coach with single minded approach to sidetrack what i have here . great grades ,good coaches and parents that support me .thanks for the advise those that were interested season starts this week !!!!!

Perhaps the wisest post so far,..has come from one of our youngest, who actually started this thread, 4 pages back.

quote:

this post is going crazy !!!

Sorry JimSmith#15,....sometimes us adults get a little wrapped around the axil a tad weeee bit too tight. We are a passionate bunch and I do believe our intentions are good.

You sound like you know what you need to do now, so if in someway, our hashing things out brought you to this conclusion, then perhaps in our own way, we have helped.
I'd like to hope so, anyways.

It is because of the young players like yourself that most of us are here. We want to help.

Best of luck this season!!!
Go do whatcha gotta do,..and show em' what ya got!!

~ a Mom from Kansas ~

quote:

Originally posted by JimSmith#15:
i'll show em next time .......

Jim - IMO

You dont need a philosophy lesson - you just need to keep working hard - and living by what you posted.

Show 'em next time.

That is one of the great parts of playing the game.

Good luck.

JimSmith#15,

Where's Hatfield and what HS will you be attending?

quote:

Originally posted by CoachO:
Coach2709, I did not take it as any kind of criticism of his talent. I do not think that anyone else who has ever been in a competitive mode did either.
I think that you just exhibited a very good competitive spirit and I want to commend you on a truly worthy display of character, self discipline and sportsmanship. You would be one of the truly worthy opponents.
Good luck to you and your staff.

Coach O thank you for the kind words and we will keep doing what we have been doing and hope to get better through hard work. In fact we open up this coming monday against the owensboro team the pitcher at OK State played for. I hope they stink but I doubt it so we will be ready.

Once again thanks for the kind words.

its not wrong to let go AFTER contact because the ball is gone and you can't change what has already happened. although, you let young kids let go and pretty soon they are "reaching"(getting premature extension)and letting go at or before contact. if you want to garauntee that this doesn't happen don't let go! it doesn't seem to affect guys like Vlad to keep both hands on the bat. Pros do things that h.s. kids and college kids can't do. thats why they get paid to do it!

hatfield is in pa. my h/s is north penn just north of philly in montgomery county . i think this weather has to break all this indoor stuff is killing me .

quote:

Originally posted by JimSmith#15:
hatfield is in pa. my h/s is north penn just north of philly in montgomery county . i think this weather has to break all this indoor stuff is killing me .

I was raised in eastern Ohio, and my wife’s a western Pa gal. If http://www.npenn.org/northpennhs/site/default.asp is the site for your school, it looks like it’s a moose of a school! 3,400 students in 10th, 11th, and 12th grade is huge.

If you’re suffering the same kind of weather our people are in the western part of the state, you gotta be miserable, at least from a baseball standpoint! I’m reading about schools who’ve already played 10 games or more, and I’m jealous that we’ve only played 6!

There’s no doubt you’ll get to play your 25-30 games, but the way its lookin’, you’ll have to play 5-6 games a week to do it!

So what kinds of things are you guys doing at practices, if you’re having practices at all?

yeah thats my huge h/s .all the freshman are in middle schools . we practice in the gym . and my aau team has a indoor place with turf and indoor hitting /pitching tunnels . we scimage this week end -yeah right too wet

quote:

Originally posted by JimSmith#15:
yeah thats my huge h/s .all the freshman are in middle schools . we practice in the gym . and my aau team has a indoor place with turf and indoor hitting /pitching tunnels . we scimage this week end -yeah right too wet

Its funny how much people’s ideas about those mega schools changes as time goes by. On the flip side, there’s a school in Mississippi where all 4 classes are 125 students!

All it proves is that everybody had a much different perspective about things. Like you, my son and daughter both hate that hey went to huge schools. For my son it was great as far as baseball went because it got him a lot of attention and rewards he’d have probably missed out on at a small school, but for the rest of the HS experience, the social part, my kids hated it, as do most other kids.

Too impersonal.

update ----- coach was a little qweezy on our first outdoor practice . I BOMBED MY FIRST HOMER OVER THE 325 FENCE!!! OH YEAH HE LIKES THE SWING NOW!

quote:

have spent 2 yrs refining my swing with charlie lau

I'd be interested in knowing how young Mr. Smith engaged Charlie Lau in sessions for hitting instruction.

From baseball-reference.com:

Charlie Lau

Charles Richard Lau

Bats Left, Throws Right
Height 6' 0", Weight 190 lb.
Debut September 12, 1956
Final Game September 29, 1967
Born April 12, 1933 in Romulus, MI USA
Died March 18, 1984 in Key Colony Beach, FL USA

Well the technology available these days really is quite amazing.

.

Maybe they're giving hitting lessons on the History Channel.


cadDAD

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duh,,,,its his kid!

BRILLIANT!

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The kids in the Western suburbs always were a step ahead....


cadDAD
(Wheaton Central HS, Class of '72)
I beat Jim Belushi out for the lead in the Senior Musical...

.

.

Two blondes sitting on a porch one night. One looks up at the full moon, sighs and says...

Which do you think is farther? The moon or Ft. Lauderdale?

The other one responds.... "duh,,,, can you see Ft Lauderdale?"


cadDAD

.

charlie lau JR.-- duh and you guys are into baseball right ??

So Jim, you are blonde????..

quote:

Originally posted by Big1toe:
Last night the coaches were trying to change my sons swing also. I told him exactly what is being said. Always be respectful, take what you can from what they are telling you and continue to hit the way you know how. Once the games start and you hit they will leave you alone. He also has followed the Charlie Lau theory of hitting, including releasing the top hand a lot after contact which is what the coaches have an issue with but if you keep your head on the ball at contact you have to release after.

"if you keep your head on the ball at contact you have to release after."[/QUOTE]This is not true! Once the ball is gone, the finish is unimportant.

the top hand release and high finish drills helps keep the swing plane true to the ball for line drives. to go through the balls pitch plane to maximize possible contact as not to chop down at the ball but meet it . if you have a death grip with the top hand the further the ball is over the middle to the outside corner the more likely you are to roll over your wrist ,decelerate and change the bats path just before the point of contact. not a real consistent hitting technique .it's hard enough to hit with out having to compensate for a bat that is doing lets say a flying V not a nike swoosh!

Oh yeah update two !!! i got 3 homers now 5 triples and my stats as cleanup hitter are through the roof . were 9-1 now !!!!!