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I have always been told that grades are very important for high school baseball players in order to have a better chance in being scouted by college teams. In fact, I heard just today of a kid that had a pretty good arm and was 17 years old yet he has not been contacted by any college teams because of his GPA not being that good. Does anyone else have experience with situations like this, and what is the lowest GPA in high school before scouts turn and look the other way? I'm sure junior college might be another option for this guy.
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rain delay, the stories are true. Here is my son's story that I'm not proud of telling but gives a first hand account of the importance of grades. His GPA is 2.2 and SAT of 960. Don't tell him I told this story. Smile

My son did all the things you read about on this site regarding exposure. Good travel program, WWBA tournaments in Marietta, Fort Myers and Jupiter. A couple of showcases and camps. Usually did well and people noticed. During his junior year he received many letters and emails and we made one visit to a college. On July 1 after junior year he received 9 phone calls from D1 schools he would have loved to play for. He is not a PG top 100 player but he has a tool coaches like.

During this past summer player after player on his team received offers and verballed to colleges. In November they proudly signed their NLI while my son had nothing. What we heard from his coaches was that many school know of him and would like to have him but his GPA is too risky. Today we are looking to JUCOs and he will likely go that route. Not a bad thing at all, but not what we planned.

Yes exceptions are made, one of the signees on his team had worse SAT with similar grades but throws low 90's and got an offer. They still might for my knucklehead, I mean son, but things would have been a lot less frustrating for him and less stressful for us if he had just put a little more effort into school. It really isn't that hard to get B's in high school. It just takes a few hours per week of studying and caring.

SO YES HIGH SCHOOL GRADES DO MATTER!!!

The only good thing to come out of this experience is that since I painted this exact scenerio during his sophomore year I gained some credibilty with him and he kind of listens some of the things I tell him now.
quote:
Originally posted by fillsfan:
The only good thing to come out of this experience is that since I painted this exact scenerio during his sophomore year I gained some credibilty with him and he kind of listens some of the things I tell him now.


I've found that to be temporary and elusive in my house. Big Grin

Seriously fillsfan,
Thanks. That post is going to help a great many people as they come through this site looking for help.

In my house, my two boys are at opposite ends of the spectrum academically. Much of that has to do with natural ability, some of that with effort. The one lacking natural academics is more easily frustrated and that just compounds the issue. He would like to go to college ROTC, but as much as the Army needs officers, it's still a stretch. I'd prefer my boys to be officers, but he may have to chew dirt as an enlisted, just like his old man did.

As he gets older, he has more understanding that he needs to put his frustration aside and grind it out and get through, but as a Junior now, his die is greatly cast. My greatest fear as a parent in this situation is that he doesn't think Mom and I think any less of him because he's not as academically capable as his older brother. We are not shy about being proud (internally with our son) of our older sons achievements, but temper our enthusiasm some to maintain balance.

It's not always all about effort, but to varying degrees it is usually a component. And you are right, B's in HS, with the exception of a specific subject, are usually attainable for most...the climb may just be a bit steeper.
Last edited by CPLZ
What Fillsfan said is ditto for Pop Up, as most of you know already. I tried to impress in son that good grades gives one options, without them you have very little to work with. According to son, after some initial learning the hard way, he is one of JC coach's top players, and is doing well in school. Other than pot smoking roommates, he is having a good time. JC is a bit easier on these kids, because they take fewer number of classes, may go to class one day at 10, may have off days too. It allows them more time to study, and the mandatory study hall helps.

I know of one local NW player who did not have good grades, but he was already on MLB watch list and went third round. A large NW college had him signed, but it was for show only, they knew he would never attend their school. If the MLB people like you enough the D1s will recruit you too. Trust me, if you are high on their list, you would know it by now.
Probably no flow to these thoughts, but here goes...

In this day and age, good options are paramount.
Good grades give you good options.

You be the coach...two players...all other things being very close to equal...you gonna' take the 2.6 guy or the 3.2 guy?

Looking around, I see a tough reality. Many kids realize that good grades give good options...here's the problem...the vast majority usually don't realize it at 15-16, it's at 19-20 when they've been overlooked, or they are tired of the jc route and decide pizza delivery will get 'em by until the "right thing comes along".

I was blessed...my kid realized the importance...had the discipline and focus in his mid-teens...listened to his coaches and parents...realized that good grades would probably get him further, especially him being a MIF of smaller stature.

His grades got him active help from the coaches with the academic departments, even at a nice SEC school he was being recruited by. I'm pretty sure his ultimate landing school would not have happened without good grades.

I am a firm believer that actively seeking good grades is important. Wink
quote:
DaddyBo quote:
the vast majority usually don't realize it at 15-16, it's at 19-20 when they've been overlooked, or they are tired of the jc route and decide pizza delivery will get 'em by until the "right thing comes along".

Good point D-Bo

While I understand some kids don't have the "tools" to succeed at a high level in regard to HS acadeemics, some parents should pull out the full size mirror when HS grades become an issue. Parents with athletes will go out of their way to fork out money for camps, clinics, and private lessons, and also make sure Jr gets to practice, games, and workouts. In the end they look back and see that those efforts paid off as the kid is now a sought after player.

But....

Did they put the same effort maximizing, investing, and following up on the academic side of the HS career?

I plead guilty, as I probably put more effort into HS athletics than academics. I think I really lucked out as my kid's teammates and coaches set a high academic bar. In the end was it their resonsibility that he exceed the avarage student? NO, it's the parents responsibility to bring out the most in their kids athletically and academically.
Last edited by rz1
quote:
Originally posted by Pop Up Hitter dad:
JC is a bit easier on these kids, because they take fewer number of classes, may go to class one day at 10, may have off days too. It allows them more time to study, and the mandatory study hall helps.

Just be sure that the player accumulates 12 transferrable credit hours per term, and gets a 2.0.

It is possible to accomplish this by taking the minimum 12 hours per term, but that doesn't allow for any kind of problem. Players do end up being shut out of D1 schools because they had to drop a class, and then couldn't catch up the hours.

Note that a course like Baseball Studies 101 probably won't be transferrable. That could mean that a player has taken 12 hours (or more) per term, but still not meet the NCAA rule of 12 transferrable hours.
quote:
Did they put the same effort maximizing, investing, and following up on the academic side of the HS career?


Very good point. Our son told us young that he wanted to play college baseball.We sat him down before HS started and told him we would support this dream, on the condition that he had good grades.He is a smart kid, so we set the bar high at a 3.5.

Freshmen year and sophmore year he had mandatory study 2 hours a night Sunday through Thursday.Friday and Saturday were his, unless he had a huge project, and he knew what he had to do. Sunday after 5 pm Play station was off for the week, until Friday night.He balked at first, his friends didnt have these rules.

We did not budge, I am a big supporter of structured time.They need it.Why do you think college baseball teams have study hall? Structured time to study.

This worked well for us.Junior year son did not feel he need structured time, husband agreed with him.I did not but let him try to do it his own way. 3.8 freshmen and soph. year.It did drop, junior year.So when it came time to drive, I told him again 3.5 or no keys.He graduated with a 3.5 and good SAT scores.

Now my son has no learning difficulties, and he only took one AP class so a 3.5 was not that difficult, it just required time.

When he went to camps, he took his books.He studied in the car, in the hotel room etc.

Yes colleges make some exceptions, but you better be really good.My son went to a JC last year, 3.4 GPA. College that recruited him told him that when he looked at sons JC grades he noticed that he dropped during baseball season, and he almost didnt want to recruit him, but then he looked at his HS grades and saw that he was consistent in the classroom.They have a 35 man roster limit they cant have 10 guys barely hanging on.

If they cant maintain good grades in HS and learn study habits, it will be very difficult to maintain them at college with baseball.
Great post FOG.

IMO the one area that can be affected the most for post high school opportunity is academics. I know you have to have baseball talent and you have to put the time in practice to be sought after for a baseball scholarship. But no one can take away your grades and SAT's, regardless of athletics.

I tell kids that are freshmen in high school that the one single thing that they should put the most focus on is their academic efforts. FOG sat hers down prior to freshman year and made it a priority. That priority, if baseball did not work out, would still have tremendous value for his future.
Last edited by Kokomojo
To provide a perspective on how important grades are I took two dimensions, grades and baseball ability and that show how important grades are. If you assume the % of available schools are based primarily on an athletes ability and grades then a 10 in both categories would mean that 100% of the schools would be available to an athlete. I assume that there is a floor where no matter what your grades are you will not play and no matter how good an athlete are you will not play unless you make the minimum 2.0 which are arbitrarily assigned as a mid point of 5 on my scale.

So if you have great grades and are a meet the lowest criteria of a college baseball player you still would have the opportunity to play at 50% of the available schools. If you are baseball god and you just barely make the grade you have the same available pool of schools. It is important to point out that for the “average” kid seeking to play in college is a 7, if he has barely passing grades (5) only 35% of the potential schools would be available for him to play. If he was a 10 then he could have 70% of the schools available, a huge difference.

I caveat this analysis with the fact that it assumes linearity in all areas, which is not the case, but it should get the point across.


GPA BB Ability Opportunity (%)

10 10 100
10 9 90
10 8 80
10 7 70
10 6 60
10 5 50
10 X Don’t bother

10 10 100
9 10 90
8 10 80
7 10 70
6 10 60
5 10 50
x 10 Don’t bother

9 9 81
8 8 64
7 7 49
6 6 36
5 5 25

10 7 70
7 10 70
10 6 60
Interesting analysis BOF!

One small point that I would like to make to the youngsters out there is that there may be some coaches out there who equate classroom performance with the liklihood a player will be willing to work at baseball. I have no proof for this suspicion, but I could see a coach in the back of his mind thinking "Slacker in the classroom, slacker on the baseball field."

Don't be a slacker like Marty McFly - bust your humps so no doors are ever closed to you
There recently was a topic here regarding a player that signed an NLI and he didn't have the grades for D1 and question asked was that possible. I asked a HC if this was common as he had a player that was signed to go to attend his program and had all summer up until classes began to become eligible, he indicated this happens often. The bigger the program the more talent becomes more important than your GPA, borderline can get you in. Bobbleheaddad is not off the mark with his statement.

Of course if a player has talent and very good grades and test scores, the more programs you have your choice of and coaches know they have a recruit they most likely don't have to worry about as much as one that struggled in HS.
Now the player was drafted very high, but chose to attend JUCO. Did his talent get him signed over another player less talented with better grades? Most likely yes.
New rules makes bb money limited, one must have the rewuired GPA for academic money, that goes into the recruiting process why do you think coaches ask for grades and test scores before they offer?
Good points made by rz1, I have seen many folks spend lots of money getting their kids better and too be seen, but less on what they do in the classroom, that is so important.
I am not sure I agree 100% with you CD, but I do agree, some kids just don't have it in the classroom but bulldogs on the field.
There is a player from my town that was a sensation end of his HS year, didn't do well academically in school, most colleges shied away from him, he had the talent but not the grades.
He got drafted but not as high as he or his parents wanted for $$, and became a draft and follow, signed end of one JUCO year.
He probably isn't the brightest bulb in the pack but he has made the ML team.
To second a lot of what has already been posted, GRADES ARE VERY IMPORTANT.

My daughter works very hard at her grades but needs help. So, we send her to a "learning center" to get her assistance for her homework etc. She is also enrolled in an ACT Prep course. She is taking 3 honors courses (Calculus, Science, Spanish) but at our school, our grading scale is incrediably hard. 94% is an A 86% is a B, 78% is a C and 70% is a bottom D. So, you see, she knows that if she gets a 93%, she will have a B where all of her other friends on her summer softball team will have an A and many of them are battling for the same scholarship opportunities. Oh, our Honor's Courses are not weighted and so, you get the same result as if you took normal classes. That has always angered me.

So, GPA is important. Class Rank is also important for many scholarships out there. At one institution that is interested in my dd, if you have a 26 ACT you can qualify for about $7,000 extra. However, if you have a 26 and are top 10% of your class then you can qualify for $10,000.

Finally, ACT Prep or SAT Prep is becoming essential for monies. My dd has been preparing for the ACT for 3 months now. She will take the Feb. 6th test. Then, she will take the April test and then the June test. This is a strategy we've worked out with our counselors. She pre tested for a 22-24. Research shows that if they can take the test 3 times in a relatively close time span then they can increase their scores as much as 6 points. Should my child do that, then she would be in the $10,000 range. Well, I got a little carried away. I hope I haven't hijacked the thread.
Last edited by CoachB25
quote:
Originally posted by NP13:
How do colleges look at GPA? What is Acceptable / Good / Great? 2.5 / 3.0 / 3.5?
An unweighted 3.5 will open up a lot of options. I know kids playing at Ivies who had 3.5's in high school.

There are a couple of top end D3 academic schools in our area. They're both off the Blue Route. You can guess who they are. A HeadFirst contact told me one provides academic exceptions for athletes. At the other the player has to get accepted as a student.
Last edited by RJM
If one was asked to choose between a top academic summa cum laude type vs a top baseball player I go with the later.

A $6.5M signing bonus 1st round dollars in the MLB amateur player draft versue a Rhodes Scholar or Nobel Peace Price is my choice.

Who recognizes Alain Locke (since it is not a known household name.) How about Stephen Strasburg?

Smile
Last edited by Bear
Grades are more important to parents than coaches , case in point , 2 pitchers , 1 lefty , 1 righty , both throw in the 90's both above average pitchers . One has a gpa of 2.0 , one a 3.2 and good SAT's . Both are attending same D1 school here in Tampa . Righty graduated by a hair , lefty with a 3.2 . Only difference is lefty got a bit more help on academic side of scholarship . Coach looked at ability more so than grades .
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Dorminy:
Grades are more important to parents than coaches , case in point , 2 pitchers , 1 lefty , 1 righty , both throw in the 90's both above average pitchers . One has a gpa of 2.0 , one a 3.2 and good SAT's . Both are attending same D1 school here in Tampa . Righty graduated by a hair , lefty with a 3.2 . Only difference is lefty got a bit more help on academic side of scholarship . Coach looked at ability more so than grades .


Tom,
I think you are looking at one isolated case in the past. The recruiting landscape has changed drastically with the advent of the APR and Roster and Scholarship limits in just the past two years. This year, the NCAA has instituted another provision where coaches who cut players with a GPA over 2.6 are not dinged on their APR. That means that if the coach is going to take a risk on baseball potential, he'll give the nod to the player with the better grades so that if he cuts the kid in the future it won't impact his APR negatively.

Coaches always look at ability first. However, in todays world, that righty might never have been offered by that coach.
TR do you get clearance to reveal these grades ? You know with all the privacy rules today and the importance of the info.
Marks are important assuming you have the talent. I have saids this before that one of they first questions from coaches who were interested in my son was what was his GPA. That doesn't infer that it is as important as talent because it isn't. Coaches want to know you can stay eligible and that you can get some academic money taking the load off his BB money.
I also have seen 2.0 guys sign with big programs. One signed a MiLB contract instead of going to Oklahoma State and made it to MLB. He was a terrible student and barely made it out of HS. Another played D11. He was a bad student and had a terrible attitude. He was banned from HS sports in his SR year after knocking out a referee in HS hockey. He was drafted even though he had issues all through college. He hardly played because of his attitude. He was a bad actor all around but he could crush a ball.
"The importance of grades in high school..."

Cannot be over-stated!

A lot of the young men I've coached in summer ball have gone on to play college baseball, somewhere around 70 student-athletes. The one thing they had in commmon as much as their baseball ability was the ability to meet a certain standard in the classroom. Just being a "qualifier" isn't good enough, you have to strive to acheive at least a 3.0 and 1000 math and verbal. Can you get in with less, sure you can. Can you get into a lot more schools with those scores, darn right!

I'd encourage everyone to take SAT and/or ACT prep courses during their junior year. We're in the 4th year of running a private PSAT/SAT tutoring class through Kaplan, and it has been very successful in helping our junior students acheive higher scores. In the case of a few boys, it has meant the difference between being admitted or not. Just as importantly in a few cases, it has meant the difference between more scholarship money or less. In some cases it has meant getting into a better university than they'd have gotten into without those higher scores.

Academic aid, at least for the schools out in this part of the country, generally starts to flow around 3.6 GPA. Below that, figure that you might get athletic aid, but you're not going to get academic aid in most cases.

If a young man is serious about playing college baseball, he'll take his academics every bit as serious as his baseball endeavors. This should begin his freshman year, not later.
Last edited by 06catcherdad
Bobblehead, I wanted to comment on your question to TR seperately from my other post. I have no problem discussing academics with any college coach, and I think most lower level coaches are the same. They boys who play summer ball in our program understand why they are there, and a big part of that is to further their opportunities toward playing in college. If they want that help, then their academics are on the table, if they don't they can go somewhere else.

One of the worst days I ever had in summer ball was responding to Matt Hobbs, then the recruiting coordinator for UC San Diego (one of the top academic universities in the country). Coach Hobss pointed out 3 of our players and told me he was interested in all three potentially becoming Tritons, and asked me what I could tell him about the three boys. My reply was to the point, I said "I can tell you everything you need to know about all three of them. None are academically eligible to get into your university. One has a 3.1 and the other two are 2.9-3.0 guys."

It takes at least a 3.6 to get into UCSD, so they were out of luck. Now, it worked out OK, as one of them is now playing in the Big West, another in the WAC and the 3rd in jr. college, but they all missed out on a chance to be recruited to attend one of the top universities around.

Grades matter, and coaches who care discuss academics as freely as they discuss baseball ability.
The better your GPA/SAT combination, the more doors are open. It is really that simple.

My son's objective in the recruiting process was to find the a school with the best combination of high end academics and competitive baseball for which he was qualified.

The lower the GPA/SAT combo, the fewer opportunities there would be for him. He knew that all along, and thankfully, although never a great "student" in high school, was at least able to keep his GPA high enough to keep the doors open.

As for Bobble's question about GPA: nobody ever had his transcript, but he was routinely asked to self report his GPA for showcase and summer baseball type activities.
Yes we personally gave out that info. They always asked for official transcripts to be sent by school on official school letter head.
The coaches wanted to know a ball park GPA and if he had NCAA approval.
My son's goal were different than most. He could have got into any Ivy . He wanted to enjoy his experience while playing D1 and getting a great education. He enjoyed every minute of his 4 years.
Now he is enjoying the rest of his life.
Bobble, the more I read your comments, the harder it becomes to take you seriously anymore. You seem to take greater pleasure in arguing with many of us other old timers than in contributing anything of substance these days. I don't remember you being that way years ago, but you sure seem that way recently.

You have no idea about the interaction or relationships I have with my players or their families, so your comment about 'getting an attorney' proves to me that you're clueless in this regard. I respectfully suggest that you contribute positively, or simply don't post if all you want to do is argue with those of us who are trying to contribute.

Merry Christmas!
Well if you look at my old posts you will see my views are consistent.
I would never leave my son's fate regarding College in anyones hands coach or otherwise . I personally would be very unset if my son's coach said anything negative about him like you.
In the new world it is not unrealistic that parents might sue if they knew you were releasing transcripts and saying their son wouldn't get in to a certain college. Leave that up to the college.
You might have missed the thread on Spacial "College Athletic Admits "
I deal with the privacy act in my work and you should get a release to give out that info.
A couple of points here. First, as a high school coach, I could not get access to my player's transcripts. When I help my parent's meeting, I informed the parents of this and gave them an indication of what I would be asked by colleges. GPA and Class Rank are among those items. Parents then had to make a decision. I honestly can't name one parent who denied my access. Our guidance department created a form that parents had to sign. Also, important to this discussion is that core classes have to be monitored. In other words, some parents don't understand that some classes don't meet the core requirement and so, when their child applies to x university, they are denied. What a shame. I was able to help guidance help my players if you catch my drift.

Yes, Bobblehead, I always worried about that potential lawsuit. Every coach does. Lets tell it like it is, if a coach is asked in general about your child's grades, honesty is the best policy. For some a coach saying, I'll leave that up to you to discuss with the parents" CAN give a real bad impression. Then again, our country is all about lawsuits. The age of entitlement again and again. Makes me want to puke!

I don't know how much different softball is than baseball in the recruiting guidelines. However, ACT, Class Rank, GPA, are all stuff we (daughter and I) have been asked from every university interested in her. In fact, one school wanted to know why she hasn't already taken the September ACT. Heck that would have been early in her junior year.
RJM non of our coaches had any info. The HS coach was not employed by they HS and all he cared about was that you were eligible. The elite coaches cared about BB and I saw some really big issues with players and coaches. Many became D1 pitchers and JC players Our coaches were telling college coaches and others that my son had signed. He had an offer but wasn't going to sign. I eventually corrected him after here him say it. He was ticked because they had taken kudos for placing him. In fact we did all our own promotion. I didn't totally trust them because I had seen problems with other players.
If I paid to have my son play for a team and the coach said what 06 said I would be very ticked at him. If he is going to blind side them at least let them know and stop taking their money.
I don't know maybe we do things different in the states. We relied heavily on son's coaches to help in the process.
When my son signed up for his summer travel team, he listed his GPA, which was published in a media guide to give to coaches, and we had no problem with him discussing son's academics.
My son's coaches had relationships with the school he signed with and many others, why would we not want them to answer questions and be honest? There imput was most important.
As far as the HS coach, he gets a report every semester, why not if asked, whycan't he share this info? It doesn't matter anyway, transcripts tell the whole story.
I see nothing wrong with what either TR or 06 said, I am sure they both have realtionships with many coaches, 06 was only telling the coaches those particualr players they did not have the GPA for entry to USCD.
Last edited by TPM
quote:
Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:

My son's goal were different than most. He could have got into any Ivy . He wanted to enjoy his experience while playing D1 and getting a great education. He enjoyed every minute of his 4 years.
Now he is enjoying the rest of his life.


BHD,
Your son's goals were not any different than mine or anyone else's here, all of our players want to enjoy their college experience while playing at any program and get a great education.
And guess what, mine is enjoying his life as well, as I am sure most of our players are.
We ask every player what their GPA and class rank is. We ask for permission to give this information to the college coaches. We prepare a scout book for our team to pass out to college coaches and to give out at every tournement we play in. If a parent will not agree to give us this information we will not allow the player to play.

This is done for obvious reasons. In HS we can check on every players gpa , grades whenever we want. We actually have a form that every player fills out and gives to each one of their teachers. A progress report if you will. There are serious consequences for misbehavior and poor peformance in the classroom even if they are grade elgible. We have these forms filled out about every 2 weeks. Some teachers are very helpful and are glad we do it. Others seem to get a little peeved at the extra work. But when pressed they send them in.
BHD I just give them the information and then its up to them to do the further investigation to see if the kid can get in school , etc.

As you know college coaches do not have the time to spend on players or do not want to spend the time on players no matter how talented that they can not get in school. And in some cases even if they might be capable of getting the kid in school they are turned away from a borderline talent with borderline grades.

I feel that its our job to have the information available for the coaches. Its up to them to figure out what to do with it. But all it sounds like 06 is doing is giving them the information as well. If they want to check further they will.
quote:
Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
So you think there is nothing wrong with a coach making a judgment call on a player who may quality for an athletic admit with a 3.1 GPA ?


If 06 or any other experienced coach who helps players knows the requirements, I see no problem.
BTW, IF they could have gotten in on those grades, why aren't they there?
I remember son's coach took in a player that had very poor grades, which he usually doesn't do, but there was a situation where the boys felt that he needed some good guidance and instruction. He got no interest, the mother was fuming, after she was told he most likely would not get an offer, sometimes you just can't make anyone happy. I know why coaches will not take all players, even if they are very talented, who needs that aggravation?
BHD,
Sorry that you were unable to trust any coach, I guess that is why you had to do so much work in finding your son a place to play.
quote:
One of the worst days I ever had in summer ball was responding to Matt Hobbs, then the recruiting coordinator for UC San Diego (one of the top academic universities in the country). Coach Hobss pointed out 3 of our players and told me he was interested in all three potentially becoming Tritons, and asked me what I could tell him about the three boys. My reply was to the point, I said "I can tell you everything you need to know about all three of them. None are academically eligible to get into your university. One has a 3.1 and the other two are 2.9-3.0 guys."


This what I have a problem with. In my opinion you are doing it the right way and go above and beyond as usual.
quote:
Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
So you think there is nothing wrong with a coach making a judgment call on a player who may quality for an athletic admit with a 3.1 GPA ?


This is why coaching can be so brutal, in my opinion.
We have someone raising a ruckus on this site by alleging dad06 is violating players privacy and damaging their future by concluding catcherdad06 "made a judgment call on a player who may qualify for an athletic admit with a 3.1 GPA."
Where has it been established UCSD has "athletic admits?"
Where has it been established that even if they did, it would drop down to 3.1 GPA?
Since that recruiting coordinator is considered one of the very best, are we to think he would not step up and tell dad06 he can get any of those players considered for UCSD, if the discussion was wrongly focused?
In effect, BHD is accusing dad06 of providing false information to and about his players, when he does not know what is true or false about UCSD admissions.
Based on nothing, here we have dad06, a knowledgeable and valued poster on this site and a very successful coach, being labeled with this:

"If he is going to blind side them at least let them know and stop taking their money."

This is why coaches stop coaching. They should not have to defend themselves against the figment of fertile, ill-informed imaginations.

I believe catcherdad06 is owed an apology and BHD's very serious allegations about him and his blindsiding players be removed from this thread.
Last edited by infielddad
quote:
Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Well you post shows that you can't comprehend what I said. No where did I say that 06 was lying. As I also said it is another personal attack and tried to spare the posters our personal issues. Or should I say your personal issues.


I didn't say you lied, anywhere in my post.
I did say you didn't know what you are talking about with UCSD admissions and owed dad06 an apology.
The issues here have to do with the serious assertions you are making about a coach and what he is doing with his players, including "blind siding" them. dad06 does not deserve to have his integrity impugned on this board.
You can call me a MORON. Don't really care.
It is wrong, in my opinion, for you to use this site to improperly impugn this coach for how he is running his team and what he is doing for his players, when you don't have facts or valid information.
As I said, I think you owe dad06 an apology.
Last edited by infielddad
UCSD is one of the toughest schools to get into academically here in California.Heck all the UC schools are.But UCSD is a D2 program, they give NO athletic money.If you do not have the grades, you are not getting into the program. PERIOD.
I know Catcherdad06.I know his program.He has a very good relationship with many coaches in California.
BBHD I dont know when your son went to college, But the landscape has changed considerably.
Most of the travel teams in Ca. have you turn in a GPA grade report.Heck Girls softball will have it all in a binder for coaches to go through.And it is the first thing they ask for.

We all know of the Stud baseball players that get in with lower GPA, it does happen, But he better be a Stud, and that team wont have ten of him, if it is a strong academic school.

I think you (WE) as a whole need to be careful when were talking on here.Information is good, a good argument is good, but insulting and attacking ones character is not good.

Also by the way, from what I have heard catchersdad06 makes no personal gain from his teams.he does it to help the boys.

The players that play for the team that catchersdad06 has, are good students, good boys, and parents who care about education, not just baseball.
Fan I was attacked by 06 for suggesting he should have a signed waiver before giving out info.
In my opinion he should allow the college to make their determination. Supply them with the info and let them make the decision. I was shocked at his attack after my suggesting this.
Infielddad has blown this out of proportion but he and TPM have a penchant for this. I tried to take it private as I am sure most would like us to do.
My son graduated last
UCSD is one of the toughest academic schools in the nation. To my knowledge, there are no athletic admits, and knowing kids that attend it is grueling academically. Each athlete gets $500/yr. We were told that to be in D2 there had to be some athletic money. The student body voted to raise their fees a few years ago to fund the athletics.

You are a student first there and it certainly doesn't have a party reputation even though it's by the beach.

It seems like many of BH's posts need to come with a warning that they may contain inaccurate info. In other words, take it with a grain of salt.
BBHD,

I dont know about your relationship with the other posters, and PMs etc.I am just saying that here in Ca. we do give our travel coaches the boys grades. Coaches here, ask for them, and we as parents know that.
It seemed you were questioning that, and saying that coaches were invading privacy, and blindsiding parents.Thats what got people heated up.I am not trying to attack you personally.
I agree with you that coaches do take athletes with lower GPAs, but as said they dont take many.Not at the good academic schools, not anymore.

The main focus of this thread is GRADES do matter.For most of our boys who are good players, they need good grades.
quote:
Originally posted by fanofgame:
rz1,

Do you have a signed waiver to post those boys (men) on this site.and group hug, all men??HMMMM

I dont know if my husband would want me in that group hug. Merry Christmas



FOG,
Didn't you volunteer to be in the middle? , I think tpm stepped up last time, taking one for the team, to be the nucleus.
Has anybody ever heard about good grades working against you? After a few school visits and calls from coaches last year my son was hit with a comment from a coach last year that because of his commitment to his studies that a coach questioned his dedication to playing ball in college.My son made no bones about the fact that he was going to college to further his education, not just to play baseball.Son has always been an overachiever both in the classroom and on the field(not the most talented or smartest but excellent results).The comment from that coach caused my son to rethink the whole process again to where he has decided to shy away from the D1/D2 thing and just go after the academic side of things and let the chips fall where they may.
Ken,

"Has anybody ever heard about grades working against you"

Yes, but in a different way than you experienced. My son's goals were to leverage baseball as a way to get into a top school/play D1 baseball....to be a student/athlete....in that order. He has done this, and we are very excited about his choice. Along the way, we met several D1 coaches who actively recruited him. When it came time to work on the financial aspect, it was assumed by the coach that he would get more academic money rather than an increased amount of baseball money (a bump up from their initial 25% offer). Well, as you may (or may not) know, you have to apply to the school Earlier Decison or Early Action to be eligible for that academic money because the coach can't guarantee that academic money. In the coaches eyes, he is trying stretch out his baseball scholarship dollars. That is his business, and we get that. However, coaches need to set expectations with players and parents up front in this area.

While he is an excellent student and baseball player, we decided against further pursuing a few schools because of their academic money assumptions.

If you have questions about specifics, you can PM me.
I think the folks here hold their kids/players to a higher standard. We all know that that a four year degree is far more likely than an MLB contract. imo, That needs to be the consistent message, but in the real world, there will always be exceptions. Starry eyed parents/players are always willing to go down the path of least resistance. That path does not lead to success.

All you need is a good showing or two - I think the roster limit rule is pressuring coaches into making snap decisions. I've seen kids verbal without exploring other options, without knowing the coach or the staff, without any consideration to academics. The coaches are goin' crazy (only looking at what happens on the field), and the kids and parents are being dazzled!! This has been discussed in the early signing threads too.

The NCAA says all you need is a 2.0 GPA and a 1010 SAT - so a kid really shouldn't be penalized if he or she are at that level academically. I mean, if the NCAA says it is good enough..... So I'm being sarcastic - the standard is abysmally low. Obviously there are plenty of schools that require more, but ... if gives the coach a lot of leeway.

Not the message the HSBBW wants to send, but people need to be prepared for seeing it happen.
I propose that even more important than achieving good grades in high school is developing effective study habits and working to one's potential.

In high school, my son was always one to do just enough to get by. He was fairly disinterested in school and, despite our pleas and admonishments, would never put forth sustained effort to achieve the higher grades he was capable of. He ended up with a 3.0 GPA, 22 ACT, and 980 SAT -- just high enough to get into the school that was recruiting him, but certainly nothing to write home about.

Now, he is a college sophomore who is struggling with his classes -- not because he is dumb, but because he never developed the study skills necessary to achieve a high level of success. The coaching staff will be ramping up tutoring, accountability, etc. this spring and we are hopeful that it will help, but in retrospect we should have come down HARD on him early on in high school when it became obvious he was doing the bare minimum.

Let this be a warning to all the high school parents out there who are allowing their sons to slide academically. Your complacency may come back to haunt you. Lots of "woulda, coulda, shoulda's" currently being uttered at our house.
Last edited by Infield08
Keep in mind that the 2.0 and 1010 cited is for being NCAA eligible to play---it does not guaranttee you admission to a any school, especially in todays world

I would also be concerned with any coach who questions a players being too dedicated to his academics---if a player becomes ineligible because of grades the team gets punished in terms of APR and scholarships--the more solid a player is in the classroom the better for the overall team picture
To me the habits should start earlier than HS.
In my one daughter's case, she was constantly belittled by her grade 6 teacher. I had a chat with her and things improved. Fortunately we moved and her next teacher turned her around and she graduated college with an honors degree.
My son had the same teacher and he was also the coach for basketball and volleyball. He had an incredible effect on my 2 kids. I remember getting a call from my son's previous teacher. Well actually it was from a psychologist saying my son had no issues. I asked her what she was talking about. She told me they tested him because he wasn't finishing his tests etc. They suspected he might be slow. It turned out he was fine he just a very detailed type of intelligence. They told him he had to work faster and he did.
My daughters all had to work hard but my son just didn't. You always knew when my daughters were writing exams and my son it was life as usual.
Most players I have observed over the years all had different development rates in academics as well as BB. Some just have it easier than others in both. They are what they are and if they don't understand that marks will get them more academic money and open opportunities by HS you have to hope the light will go on eventually. For those who are not academically inclined all is not lost.
We have always discussed the importance of good grades to my son and daughter. My son is a senior this year recovering from TJ surgery and most D1's wanted to wait to see how he recovers this spring and summer. Top academic D3's stayed interested and he applied early decision and was just admitted to an excellent D3 school with a substantial amount of academic money. Which without we would not be able to send him to this school. This was all about grades though I'm sure the baseball coach was able to put in a good word for him. The bottom line came down to course's taken (mostly honors and 6 AP courses plus 3yrs of one language and 4 of another, ACT scores and his interview.
Something that also amazed me is they wanted to know the courses he is taking as a senior to show he was not slacking off as a senior.
quote:
Originally posted by Infield08:
I propose that even more important than achieving good grades in high school is developing effective study habits and working to one's potential.

In high school, my son was always one to do just enough to get by. He was fairly disinterested in school and, despite our pleas and admonishments, would never put forth sustained effort to achieve the higher grades he was capable of. He ended up with a 3.0 GPA, 22 ACT, and 980 SAT -- just high enough to get into the school that was recruiting him, but certainly nothing to write home about.

Now, he is a college sophomore who is struggling with his classes -- not because he is dumb, but because he never developed the study skills necessary to achieve a high level of success. The coaching staff will be ramping up tutoring, accountability, etc. this spring and we are hopeful that it will help, but in retrospect we should have come down HARD on him early on in high school when it became obvious he was doing the bare minimum.

Let this be a warning to all the high school parents out there who are allowing their sons to slide academically. Your complacency may come back to haunt you. Lots of "woulda, coulda, shoulda's" currently being uttered at our house.

That is a wonderful post with much wisdom.

Before you beat yourself up too much however, I have three kids. Two of them I have no woulda, shoulda, coulda's. The funny thing with those two, I really dont' feel it is appropriate for me to take any credit because they both seem to be naturally motivated in their own right.

With my other one however, all I mostly have is regret in my abilities as a parent. While parents are in fact responsible how their kids turn out, some of this burden/ responsibility must also fall on the kids themselves imho. If that were not the case, then all my experiences ought to be the same when in fact they are quite different.
It's so easy to go through this process with rose colored blinders, you definetly need someone who can look at things objectively, who can't do that any better than a coach?
Trust me and many will agree, until your child lands up at college, you have no clue how difficult things can get. Mine was an excellent student, and a very good baseball player, but reality hit hard when he went off to school, he realized just how difficult trying to make it all happen can be. It took one full semester to learn to really buckle down and not only produce on the field but in the classroom and you are talking about an honors straight A HS student.
If a program has interest in my son and he doesn't have the academic requirements (or the talent level) for that program, I'd think twice about whether it was a good fit, even after having done all my homework, I want someone else to be objective and see things from the other side.

There is no harm, IMO, of travel or HS coaches being honest with their players about their ability (bb talent and academics) and answering coaches questions, honestly. Why would I want my player to go to a school where he will struggle in the classroom? Or on the field? In fact, I would be pretty darn ****ed if any coach led any college coach to beleive that my player would be right for their program if he wasn't.
Last edited by TPM
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
bb1

You mention languages which is a great point--a lot of HS counselors will sway kids from taking two years of a language saying one year is enough---most colleges require two years---DO NOT GET TRAPPED


Excellent point, in the state of FL requirements are 2 years language for state school, at Clemson it was 3 for admission. Because son had so many math and science credits in HS, they waived the third year needed for language.
Did his talent in baseball help that cause, yes, did having honor math classes/science help also, you bet.
quote:
Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Do you consider an athlete with a 3.0-3.1 GPA a terrible student ?
3.0 in most conferences puts you on their honor roll.


Of course not, but that doesn't mean he will be able to handle playing baseball and attending a school where the admissions requirements are 3.8+ or 1300+SAT scores. Maintaining a 3.0 in HS doesn't mean that you can do it in college.
What's your point?
Last edited by TPM

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