The importance of grades in high school.

FSU is always a possibility

There are several kids from our area that could be playing D1 but their gpa and/or ACT score was low. For D3 schools, it is especially important to have a good gpa as they cannot give out athletic scholarships and many of them are quite expensive so they try to give the player academic money to entice them if their grades allow.

In most cases, talent gets you noticed, GPA is just another part of the equation.
That 17 year old may have a pretty good arm, but not good enough to overlook his GPA (if that is the case).
JMO

Not making the grade in HS will catch up one way or another to a potential athlete. It's usually one of the first hard lessons they learn as a young adult.

rain delay, the stories are true. Here is my son's story that I'm not proud of telling but gives a first hand account of the importance of grades. His GPA is 2.2 and SAT of 960. Don't tell him I told this story.

My son did all the things you read about on this site regarding exposure. Good travel program, WWBA tournaments in Marietta, Fort Myers and Jupiter. A couple of showcases and camps. Usually did well and people noticed. During his junior year he received many letters and emails and we made one visit to a college. On July 1 after junior year he received 9 phone calls from D1 schools he would have loved to play for. He is not a PG top 100 player but he has a tool coaches like.

During this past summer player after player on his team received offers and verballed to colleges. In November they proudly signed their NLI while my son had nothing. What we heard from his coaches was that many school know of him and would like to have him but his GPA is too risky. Today we are looking to JUCOs and he will likely go that route. Not a bad thing at all, but not what we planned.

Yes exceptions are made, one of the signees on his team had worse SAT with similar grades but throws low 90's and got an offer. They still might for my knucklehead, I mean son, but things would have been a lot less frustrating for him and less stressful for us if he had just put a little more effort into school. It really isn't that hard to get B's in high school. It just takes a few hours per week of studying and caring.

SO YES HIGH SCHOOL GRADES DO MATTER!!!

The only good thing to come out of this experience is that since I painted this exact scenerio during his sophomore year I gained some credibilty with him and he kind of listens some of the things I tell him now.

quote:

Originally posted by fillsfan:
The only good thing to come out of this experience is that since I painted this exact scenerio during his sophomore year I gained some credibilty with him and he kind of listens some of the things I tell him now.

I've found that to be temporary and elusive in my house.

Seriously fillsfan,
Thanks. That post is going to help a great many people as they come through this site looking for help.

In my house, my two boys are at opposite ends of the spectrum academically. Much of that has to do with natural ability, some of that with effort. The one lacking natural academics is more easily frustrated and that just compounds the issue. He would like to go to college ROTC, but as much as the Army needs officers, it's still a stretch. I'd prefer my boys to be officers, but he may have to chew dirt as an enlisted, just like his old man did.

As he gets older, he has more understanding that he needs to put his frustration aside and grind it out and get through, but as a Junior now, his die is greatly cast. My greatest fear as a parent in this situation is that he doesn't think Mom and I think any less of him because he's not as academically capable as his older brother. We are not shy about being proud (internally with our son) of our older sons achievements, but temper our enthusiasm some to maintain balance.

It's not always all about effort, but to varying degrees it is usually a component. And you are right, B's in HS, with the exception of a specific subject, are usually attainable for most...the climb may just be a bit steeper.

What Fillsfan said is ditto for Pop Up, as most of you know already. I tried to impress in son that good grades gives one options, without them you have very little to work with. According to son, after some initial learning the hard way, he is one of JC coach's top players, and is doing well in school. Other than pot smoking roommates, he is having a good time. JC is a bit easier on these kids, because they take fewer number of classes, may go to class one day at 10, may have off days too. It allows them more time to study, and the mandatory study hall helps.

I know of one local NW player who did not have good grades, but he was already on MLB watch list and went third round. A large NW college had him signed, but it was for show only, they knew he would never attend their school. If the MLB people like you enough the D1s will recruit you too. Trust me, if you are high on their list, you would know it by now.

As important as GPAs are to getting into college and reducing the amount of athletic money a coach has to use up, success in life is not always directly related to GPAs. There are lots of successful people who had low GPAs and dropped out of school. What the coaches want is to see marks that limit the risk of a player becoming ineligible.

Probably no flow to these thoughts, but here goes...

In this day and age, good options are paramount.
Good grades give you good options.

You be the coach...two players...all other things being very close to equal...you gonna' take the 2.6 guy or the 3.2 guy?

Looking around, I see a tough reality. Many kids realize that good grades give good options...here's the problem...the vast majority usually don't realize it at 15-16, it's at 19-20 when they've been overlooked, or they are tired of the jc route and decide pizza delivery will get 'em by until the "right thing comes along".

I was blessed...my kid realized the importance...had the discipline and focus in his mid-teens...listened to his coaches and parents...realized that good grades would probably get him further, especially him being a MIF of smaller stature.

His grades got him active help from the coaches with the academic departments, even at a nice SEC school he was being recruited by. I'm pretty sure his ultimate landing school would not have happened without good grades.

I am a firm believer that actively seeking good grades is important.

IMO having good grades just gives you many more options with many different schools. Poor grades limits the number of schools.

quote:

DaddyBo quote:
the vast majority usually don't realize it at 15-16, it's at 19-20 when they've been overlooked, or they are tired of the jc route and decide pizza delivery will get 'em by until the "right thing comes along".

Good point D-Bo

While I understand some kids don't have the "tools" to succeed at a high level in regard to HS acadeemics, some parents should pull out the full size mirror when HS grades become an issue. Parents with athletes will go out of their way to fork out money for camps, clinics, and private lessons, and also make sure Jr gets to practice, games, and workouts. In the end they look back and see that those efforts paid off as the kid is now a sought after player.

But....

Did they put the same effort maximizing, investing, and following up on the academic side of the HS career?

I plead guilty, as I probably put more effort into HS athletics than academics. I think I really lucked out as my kid's teammates and coaches set a high academic bar. In the end was it their resonsibility that he exceed the avarage student? NO, it's the parents responsibility to bring out the most in their kids athletically and academically.

quote:

Originally posted by Pop Up Hitter dad:
JC is a bit easier on these kids, because they take fewer number of classes, may go to class one day at 10, may have off days too. It allows them more time to study, and the mandatory study hall helps.

Just be sure that the player accumulates 12 transferrable credit hours per term, and gets a 2.0.

It is possible to accomplish this by taking the minimum 12 hours per term, but that doesn't allow for any kind of problem. Players do end up being shut out of D1 schools because they had to drop a class, and then couldn't catch up the hours.

Note that a course like Baseball Studies 101 probably won't be transferrable. That could mean that a player has taken 12 hours (or more) per term, but still not meet the NCAA rule of 12 transferrable hours.

How do colleges look at GPA? What is Acceptable / Good / Great? 2.5 / 3.0 / 3.5?

check the websites of the schools you have interest in---they have the admission requirements on the sites--- the better the GPA the better you are with the baseball so they do not have worry about the player staying eligible

Sure GPA is important. And a high GPA will offset lower test scores. Many have gamed the system by taking a soft course load in HS only to become a "1 and done" statistic in college.

At almost every level in club baseball the kids are playing up, and taking their lumps. They also need to play up academically.

Be sure that athletic talent trumps GPAs. Guy with great talent and low GPA gets the nod over modest talent and high GPA. I have seen poor GPA guys sign with big time BB programs.

BHD

Think about the message you are sending!!!!!

I have and the message is that coaches value talent more than grades. I believe I said grades are very important but don't think that high grades will trump talent. You had better do both well.

Fillsfan said it best. What a wonderfully honest, real-life post. Grades do matter a lot. For my son, baseball money was hard to come by, but his GPA/SAT allowed him to pull down a nice piece of academic money.

I agree .Fillsfan has laid it out well.
The offers my son had the academic money was greater than the BB money. At least $3000 more and it was important. However I know several poor students who signed big D1 deals as he mentioned.

quote:

Did they put the same effort maximizing, investing, and following up on the academic side of the HS career?

Very good point. Our son told us young that he wanted to play college baseball.We sat him down before HS started and told him we would support this dream, on the condition that he had good grades.He is a smart kid, so we set the bar high at a 3.5.

Freshmen year and sophmore year he had mandatory study 2 hours a night Sunday through Thursday.Friday and Saturday were his, unless he had a huge project, and he knew what he had to do. Sunday after 5 pm Play station was off for the week, until Friday night.He balked at first, his friends didnt have these rules.

We did not budge, I am a big supporter of structured time.They need it.Why do you think college baseball teams have study hall? Structured time to study.

This worked well for us.Junior year son did not feel he need structured time, husband agreed with him.I did not but let him try to do it his own way. 3.8 freshmen and soph. year.It did drop, junior year.So when it came time to drive, I told him again 3.5 or no keys.He graduated with a 3.5 and good SAT scores.

Now my son has no learning difficulties, and he only took one AP class so a 3.5 was not that difficult, it just required time.

When he went to camps, he took his books.He studied in the car, in the hotel room etc.

Yes colleges make some exceptions, but you better be really good.My son went to a JC last year, 3.4 GPA. College that recruited him told him that when he looked at sons JC grades he noticed that he dropped during baseball season, and he almost didnt want to recruit him, but then he looked at his HS grades and saw that he was consistent in the classroom.They have a 35 man roster limit they cant have 10 guys barely hanging on.

If they cant maintain good grades in HS and learn study habits, it will be very difficult to maintain them at college with baseball.

Great post FOG.

IMO the one area that can be affected the most for post high school opportunity is academics. I know you have to have baseball talent and you have to put the time in practice to be sought after for a baseball scholarship. But no one can take away your grades and SAT's, regardless of athletics.

I tell kids that are freshmen in high school that the one single thing that they should put the most focus on is their academic efforts. FOG sat hers down prior to freshman year and made it a priority. That priority, if baseball did not work out, would still have tremendous value for his future.

Does it matter how hard you throw if you do not meet the NCAA Sliding Scale for DI? The minimum for DI is 2.0 in 16 Core Courses and SAT 0f 1010. As the GPA increased the SAT may decrease. My son makes it after the first qtr Senior year but is doing his best to challenge these minumums. DII becomes an option but so does Prep School.

To provide a perspective on how important grades are I took two dimensions, grades and baseball ability and that show how important grades are. If you assume the % of available schools are based primarily on an athletes ability and grades then a 10 in both categories would mean that 100% of the schools would be available to an athlete. I assume that there is a floor where no matter what your grades are you will not play and no matter how good an athlete are you will not play unless you make the minimum 2.0 which are arbitrarily assigned as a mid point of 5 on my scale.

So if you have great grades and are a meet the lowest criteria of a college baseball player you still would have the opportunity to play at 50% of the available schools. If you are baseball god and you just barely make the grade you have the same available pool of schools. It is important to point out that for the “average” kid seeking to play in college is a 7, if he has barely passing grades (5) only 35% of the potential schools would be available for him to play. If he was a 10 then he could have 70% of the schools available, a huge difference.

I caveat this analysis with the fact that it assumes linearity in all areas, which is not the case, but it should get the point across.


GPA BB Ability Opportunity (%)

10 10 100
10 9 90
10 8 80
10 7 70
10 6 60
10 5 50
10 X Don’t bother

10 10 100
9 10 90
8 10 80
7 10 70
6 10 60
5 10 50
x 10 Don’t bother

9 9 81
8 8 64
7 7 49
6 6 36
5 5 25

10 7 70
7 10 70
10 6 60

Interesting analysis BOF!

One small point that I would like to make to the youngsters out there is that there may be some coaches out there who equate classroom performance with the liklihood a player will be willing to work at baseball. I have no proof for this suspicion, but I could see a coach in the back of his mind thinking "Slacker in the classroom, slacker on the baseball field."

Don't be a slacker like Marty McFly - bust your humps so no doors are ever closed to you

There recently was a topic here regarding a player that signed an NLI and he didn't have the grades for D1 and question asked was that possible. I asked a HC if this was common as he had a player that was signed to go to attend his program and had all summer up until classes began to become eligible, he indicated this happens often. The bigger the program the more talent becomes more important than your GPA, borderline can get you in. Bobbleheaddad is not off the mark with his statement.

Of course if a player has talent and very good grades and test scores, the more programs you have your choice of and coaches know they have a recruit they most likely don't have to worry about as much as one that struggled in HS.
Now the player was drafted very high, but chose to attend JUCO. Did his talent get him signed over another player less talented with better grades? Most likely yes.
New rules makes bb money limited, one must have the rewuired GPA for academic money, that goes into the recruiting process why do you think coaches ask for grades and test scores before they offer?
Good points made by rz1, I have seen many folks spend lots of money getting their kids better and too be seen, but less on what they do in the classroom, that is so important.

I am not sure I agree 100% with you CD, but I do agree, some kids just don't have it in the classroom but bulldogs on the field.
There is a player from my town that was a sensation end of his HS year, didn't do well academically in school, most colleges shied away from him, he had the talent but not the grades.
He got drafted but not as high as he or his parents wanted for $$, and became a draft and follow, signed end of one JUCO year.
He probably isn't the brightest bulb in the pack but he has made the ML team.

To second a lot of what has already been posted, GRADES ARE VERY IMPORTANT.

My daughter works very hard at her grades but needs help. So, we send her to a "learning center" to get her assistance for her homework etc. She is also enrolled in an ACT Prep course. She is taking 3 honors courses (Calculus, Science, Spanish) but at our school, our grading scale is incrediably hard. 94% is an A 86% is a B, 78% is a C and 70% is a bottom D. So, you see, she knows that if she gets a 93%, she will have a B where all of her other friends on her summer softball team will have an A and many of them are battling for the same scholarship opportunities. Oh, our Honor's Courses are not weighted and so, you get the same result as if you took normal classes. That has always angered me.

So, GPA is important. Class Rank is also important for many scholarships out there. At one institution that is interested in my dd, if you have a 26 ACT you can qualify for about $7,000 extra. However, if you have a 26 and are top 10% of your class then you can qualify for $10,000.

Finally, ACT Prep or SAT Prep is becoming essential for monies. My dd has been preparing for the ACT for 3 months now. She will take the Feb. 6th test. Then, she will take the April test and then the June test. This is a strategy we've worked out with our counselors. She pre tested for a 22-24. Research shows that if they can take the test 3 times in a relatively close time span then they can increase their scores as much as 6 points. Should my child do that, then she would be in the $10,000 range. Well, I got a little carried away. I hope I haven't hijacked the thread.

CoachB25

What you say about the SAT/ACT is so very true---even a 100 point increase in the SAT can equate to a huge dollar increase in academic money

quote:

Originally posted by NP13:
How do colleges look at GPA? What is Acceptable / Good / Great? 2.5 / 3.0 / 3.5?

An unweighted 3.5 will open up a lot of options. I know kids playing at Ivies who had 3.5's in high school.

There are a couple of top end D3 academic schools in our area. They're both off the Blue Route. You can guess who they are. A HeadFirst contact told me one provides academic exceptions for athletes. At the other the player has to get accepted as a student.

If one was asked to choose between a top academic summa cum laude type vs a top baseball player I go with the later.

A $6.5M signing bonus 1st round dollars in the MLB amateur player draft versue a Rhodes Scholar or Nobel Peace Price is my choice.

Who recognizes Alain Locke (since it is not a known household name.) How about Stephen Strasburg?

Grades are more important to parents than coaches , case in point , 2 pitchers , 1 lefty , 1 righty , both throw in the 90's both above average pitchers . One has a gpa of 2.0 , one a 3.2 and good SAT's . Both are attending same D1 school here in Tampa . Righty graduated by a hair , lefty with a 3.2 . Only difference is lefty got a bit more help on academic side of scholarship . Coach looked at ability more so than grades .

quote:

Originally posted by Tom Dorminy:
Grades are more important to parents than coaches , case in point , 2 pitchers , 1 lefty , 1 righty , both throw in the 90's both above average pitchers . One has a gpa of 2.0 , one a 3.2 and good SAT's . Both are attending same D1 school here in Tampa . Righty graduated by a hair , lefty with a 3.2 . Only difference is lefty got a bit more help on academic side of scholarship . Coach looked at ability more so than grades .

Tom,
I think you are looking at one isolated case in the past. The recruiting landscape has changed drastically with the advent of the APR and Roster and Scholarship limits in just the past two years. This year, the NCAA has instituted another provision where coaches who cut players with a GPA over 2.6 are not dinged on their APR. That means that if the coach is going to take a risk on baseball potential, he'll give the nod to the player with the better grades so that if he cuts the kid in the future it won't impact his APR negatively.

Coaches always look at ability first. However, in todays world, that righty might never have been offered by that coach.

CPLZ

You would be surprised how many times a college coach has sat down with me or one of our coaches before a showcase or a trourament and go thru the grades with me on the kids---if the academics do not fit what he needs they are crossed off sight unseen and he moves on to the acadeically fit players

TR do you get clearance to reveal these grades ? You know with all the privacy rules today and the importance of the info.
Marks are important assuming you have the talent. I have saids this before that one of they first questions from coaches who were interested in my son was what was his GPA. That doesn't infer that it is as important as talent because it isn't. Coaches want to know you can stay eligible and that you can get some academic money taking the load off his BB money.
I also have seen 2.0 guys sign with big programs. One signed a MiLB contract instead of going to Oklahoma State and made it to MLB. He was a terrible student and barely made it out of HS. Another played D11. He was a bad student and had a terrible attitude. He was banned from HS sports in his SR year after knocking out a referee in HS hockey. He was drafted even though he had issues all through college. He hardly played because of his attitude. He was a bad actor all around but he could crush a ball.

"The importance of grades in high school..."

Cannot be over-stated!

A lot of the young men I've coached in summer ball have gone on to play college baseball, somewhere around 70 student-athletes. The one thing they had in commmon as much as their baseball ability was the ability to meet a certain standard in the classroom. Just being a "qualifier" isn't good enough, you have to strive to acheive at least a 3.0 and 1000 math and verbal. Can you get in with less, sure you can. Can you get into a lot more schools with those scores, darn right!

I'd encourage everyone to take SAT and/or ACT prep courses during their junior year. We're in the 4th year of running a private PSAT/SAT tutoring class through Kaplan, and it has been very successful in helping our junior students acheive higher scores. In the case of a few boys, it has meant the difference between being admitted or not. Just as importantly in a few cases, it has meant the difference between more scholarship money or less. In some cases it has meant getting into a better university than they'd have gotten into without those higher scores.

Academic aid, at least for the schools out in this part of the country, generally starts to flow around 3.6 GPA. Below that, figure that you might get athletic aid, but you're not going to get academic aid in most cases.

If a young man is serious about playing college baseball, he'll take his academics every bit as serious as his baseball endeavors. This should begin his freshman year, not later.

Bobblehead, I wanted to comment on your question to TR seperately from my other post. I have no problem discussing academics with any college coach, and I think most lower level coaches are the same. They boys who play summer ball in our program understand why they are there, and a big part of that is to further their opportunities toward playing in college. If they want that help, then their academics are on the table, if they don't they can go somewhere else.

One of the worst days I ever had in summer ball was responding to Matt Hobbs, then the recruiting coordinator for UC San Diego (one of the top academic universities in the country). Coach Hobss pointed out 3 of our players and told me he was interested in all three potentially becoming Tritons, and asked me what I could tell him about the three boys. My reply was to the point, I said "I can tell you everything you need to know about all three of them. None are academically eligible to get into your university. One has a 3.1 and the other two are 2.9-3.0 guys."

It takes at least a 3.6 to get into UCSD, so they were out of luck. Now, it worked out OK, as one of them is now playing in the Big West, another in the WAC and the 3rd in jr. college, but they all missed out on a chance to be recruited to attend one of the top universities around.

Grades matter, and coaches who care discuss academics as freely as they discuss baseball ability.

No coach my son played for had access to my son's transcripts.
Those 3 guys might have got in on an athletic admit just like many do in the Ivies. A ticked off parent who found out you played a role in their sons not getting a shot just might hire a sharp attorney.
I would suggest you get permission from your players.

I would also add that none of our coaches had any contact with the colleges we talked to. We didn't leave my son's fate in the hands of coaches.

quote:

I'd encourage everyone to take SAT and/or ACT prep courses during their junior year.

You are right here . The SAT are based on grade 11 of JR studies.

The better your GPA/SAT combination, the more doors are open. It is really that simple.

My son's objective in the recruiting process was to find the a school with the best combination of high end academics and competitive baseball for which he was qualified.

The lower the GPA/SAT combo, the fewer opportunities there would be for him. He knew that all along, and thankfully, although never a great "student" in high school, was at least able to keep his GPA high enough to keep the doors open.

As for Bobble's question about GPA: nobody ever had his transcript, but he was routinely asked to self report his GPA for showcase and summer baseball type activities.

Yes we personally gave out that info. They always asked for official transcripts to be sent by school on official school letter head.
The coaches wanted to know a ball park GPA and if he had NCAA approval.
My son's goal were different than most. He could have got into any Ivy . He wanted to enjoy his experience while playing D1 and getting a great education. He enjoyed every minute of his 4 years.
Now he is enjoying the rest of his life.

Bobble, the more I read your comments, the harder it becomes to take you seriously anymore. You seem to take greater pleasure in arguing with many of us other old timers than in contributing anything of substance these days. I don't remember you being that way years ago, but you sure seem that way recently.

You have no idea about the interaction or relationships I have with my players or their families, so your comment about 'getting an attorney' proves to me that you're clueless in this regard. I respectfully suggest that you contribute positively, or simply don't post if all you want to do is argue with those of us who are trying to contribute.

Merry Christmas!

The movie "Grumpy Old Men" comes to mind 06...LOL

Well if you look at my old posts you will see my views are consistent.
I would never leave my son's fate regarding College in anyones hands coach or otherwise . I personally would be very unset if my son's coach said anything negative about him like you.
In the new world it is not unrealistic that parents might sue if they knew you were releasing transcripts and saying their son wouldn't get in to a certain college. Leave that up to the college.
You might have missed the thread on Spacial "College Athletic Admits "
I deal with the privacy act in my work and you should get a release to give out that info.

quote:

I respectfully suggest that you contribute positively, or simply don't post if all you want to do is argue with those of us who are trying to contribute.

I sugest you take your own advice.

quote:

No coach my son played for had access to my son's transcripts.

My son's coach doesn't have access to transcripts. But he does ask for semester and cummulative gpa whenever grades come out so he can promote his players to coaches.

A couple of points here. First, as a high school coach, I could not get access to my player's transcripts. When I help my parent's meeting, I informed the parents of this and gave them an indication of what I would be asked by colleges. GPA and Class Rank are among those items. Parents then had to make a decision. I honestly can't name one parent who denied my access. Our guidance department created a form that parents had to sign. Also, important to this discussion is that core classes have to be monitored. In other words, some parents don't understand that some classes don't meet the core requirement and so, when their child applies to x university, they are denied. What a shame. I was able to help guidance help my players if you catch my drift.

Yes, Bobblehead, I always worried about that potential lawsuit. Every coach does. Lets tell it like it is, if a coach is asked in general about your child's grades, honesty is the best policy. For some a coach saying, I'll leave that up to you to discuss with the parents" CAN give a real bad impression. Then again, our country is all about lawsuits. The age of entitlement again and again. Makes me want to puke!

I don't know how much different softball is than baseball in the recruiting guidelines. However, ACT, Class Rank, GPA, are all stuff we (daughter and I) have been asked from every university interested in her. In fact, one school wanted to know why she hasn't already taken the September ACT. Heck that would have been early in her junior year.

RJM non of our coaches had any info. The HS coach was not employed by they HS and all he cared about was that you were eligible. The elite coaches cared about BB and I saw some really big issues with players and coaches. Many became D1 pitchers and JC players Our coaches were telling college coaches and others that my son had signed. He had an offer but wasn't going to sign. I eventually corrected him after here him say it. He was ticked because they had taken kudos for placing him. In fact we did all our own promotion. I didn't totally trust them because I had seen problems with other players.
If I paid to have my son play for a team and the coach said what 06 said I would be very ticked at him. If he is going to blind side them at least let them know and stop taking their money.

Coach I agree with every thing you said.Be up front and protect yourself and the school. It is a different world.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Coach I agree with every thing you said.Be up front and protect yourself and the school. It is a different world.

I'm glad you took that the way I intended it. After I logged off, I realized that it could be taken differently.

I don't know maybe we do things different in the states. We relied heavily on son's coaches to help in the process.
When my son signed up for his summer travel team, he listed his GPA, which was published in a media guide to give to coaches, and we had no problem with him discussing son's academics.
My son's coaches had relationships with the school he signed with and many others, why would we not want them to answer questions and be honest? There imput was most important.
As far as the HS coach, he gets a report every semester, why not if asked, whycan't he share this info? It doesn't matter anyway, transcripts tell the whole story.
I see nothing wrong with what either TR or 06 said, I am sure they both have realtionships with many coaches, 06 was only telling the coaches those particualr players they did not have the GPA for entry to USCD.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:

My son's goal were different than most. He could have got into any Ivy . He wanted to enjoy his experience while playing D1 and getting a great education. He enjoyed every minute of his 4 years.
Now he is enjoying the rest of his life.

BHD,
Your son's goals were not any different than mine or anyone else's here, all of our players want to enjoy their college experience while playing at any program and get a great education.
And guess what, mine is enjoying his life as well, as I am sure most of our players are.

We ask every player what their GPA and class rank is. We ask for permission to give this information to the college coaches. We prepare a scout book for our team to pass out to college coaches and to give out at every tournement we play in. If a parent will not agree to give us this information we will not allow the player to play.

This is done for obvious reasons. In HS we can check on every players gpa , grades whenever we want. We actually have a form that every player fills out and gives to each one of their teachers. A progress report if you will. There are serious consequences for misbehavior and poor peformance in the classroom even if they are grade elgible. We have these forms filled out about every 2 weeks. Some teachers are very helpful and are glad we do it. Others seem to get a little peeved at the extra work. But when pressed they send them in.

So you think there is nothing wrong with a coach making a judgment call on a player who may quality for an athletic admit with a 3.1 GPA ?

Coach May there is nothing wrong with your requirements to play. My problem is with not letting the college decide and a coach making the call against the player.

BHD I just give them the information and then its up to them to do the further investigation to see if the kid can get in school , etc.

As you know college coaches do not have the time to spend on players or do not want to spend the time on players no matter how talented that they can not get in school. And in some cases even if they might be capable of getting the kid in school they are turned away from a borderline talent with borderline grades.

I feel that its our job to have the information available for the coaches. Its up to them to figure out what to do with it. But all it sounds like 06 is doing is giving them the information as well. If they want to check further they will.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
So you think there is nothing wrong with a coach making a judgment call on a player who may quality for an athletic admit with a 3.1 GPA ?

If 06 or any other experienced coach who helps players knows the requirements, I see no problem.
BTW, IF they could have gotten in on those grades, why aren't they there?
I remember son's coach took in a player that had very poor grades, which he usually doesn't do, but there was a situation where the boys felt that he needed some good guidance and instruction. He got no interest, the mother was fuming, after she was told he most likely would not get an offer, sometimes you just can't make anyone happy. I know why coaches will not take all players, even if they are very talented, who needs that aggravation?
BHD,
Sorry that you were unable to trust any coach, I guess that is why you had to do so much work in finding your son a place to play.

quote:

One of the worst days I ever had in summer ball was responding to Matt Hobbs, then the recruiting coordinator for UC San Diego (one of the top academic universities in the country). Coach Hobss pointed out 3 of our players and told me he was interested in all three potentially becoming Tritons, and asked me what I could tell him about the three boys. My reply was to the point, I said "I can tell you everything you need to know about all three of them. None are academically eligible to get into your university. One has a 3.1 and the other two are 2.9-3.0 guys."

This what I have a problem with. In my opinion you are doing it the right way and go above and beyond as usual.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
So you think there is nothing wrong with a coach making a judgment call on a player who may quality for an athletic admit with a 3.1 GPA ?

This is why coaching can be so brutal, in my opinion.
We have someone raising a ruckus on this site by alleging dad06 is violating players privacy and damaging their future by concluding catcherdad06 "made a judgment call on a player who may qualify for an athletic admit with a 3.1 GPA."
Where has it been established UCSD has "athletic admits?"
Where has it been established that even if they did, it would drop down to 3.1 GPA?
Since that recruiting coordinator is considered one of the very best, are we to think he would not step up and tell dad06 he can get any of those players considered for UCSD, if the discussion was wrongly focused?
In effect, BHD is accusing dad06 of providing false information to and about his players, when he does not know what is true or false about UCSD admissions.
Based on nothing, here we have dad06, a knowledgeable and valued poster on this site and a very successful coach, being labeled with this:

"If he is going to blind side them at least let them know and stop taking their money."

This is why coaches stop coaching. They should not have to defend themselves against the figment of fertile, ill-informed imaginations.

I believe catcherdad06 is owed an apology and BHD's very serious allegations about him and his blindsiding players be removed from this thread.

quote:

Sorry that you were unable to trust any coach, I guess that is why you had to do so much work in finding your son a place to play.

All the interest from them was from Northern schools and a few in Georgia and NC.

BHD,
No need to PM to say this:

"MORON
Private Messaging
Host: BobbleheadDoll 1 participant

Invited: infielddad"

Well you post shows that you can't comprehend what I said. No where did I say that 06 was lying. As I also said it is another personal attack and tried to spare the posters our personal issues. Or should I say your personal issues.

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:
I believe catcherdad06 is owed an apology and BHD's very serious allegations about him and his blindsiding players be removed from this thread.

I agree, but will leave that call up to the owner of this site.

The pm also was unnecessary.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Well you post shows that you can't comprehend what I said. No where did I say that 06 was lying. As I also said it is another personal attack and tried to spare the posters our personal issues. Or should I say your personal issues.

I didn't say you lied, anywhere in my post.
I did say you didn't know what you are talking about with UCSD admissions and owed dad06 an apology.
The issues here have to do with the serious assertions you are making about a coach and what he is doing with his players, including "blind siding" them. dad06 does not deserve to have his integrity impugned on this board.
You can call me a MORON. Don't really care.
It is wrong, in my opinion, for you to use this site to improperly impugn this coach for how he is running his team and what he is doing for his players, when you don't have facts or valid information.
As I said, I think you owe dad06 an apology.

quote:

I didn't say you lied, anywhere in my post.

Comprehension : You accused me of saying 06 was lying.

UCSD is one of the toughest schools to get into academically here in California.Heck all the UC schools are.But UCSD is a D2 program, they give NO athletic money.If you do not have the grades, you are not getting into the program. PERIOD.
I know Catcherdad06.I know his program.He has a very good relationship with many coaches in California.
BBHD I dont know when your son went to college, But the landscape has changed considerably.
Most of the travel teams in Ca. have you turn in a GPA grade report.Heck Girls softball will have it all in a binder for coaches to go through.And it is the first thing they ask for.

We all know of the Stud baseball players that get in with lower GPA, it does happen, But he better be a Stud, and that team wont have ten of him, if it is a strong academic school.

I think you (WE) as a whole need to be careful when were talking on here.Information is good, a good argument is good, but insulting and attacking ones character is not good.

Also by the way, from what I have heard catchersdad06 makes no personal gain from his teams.he does it to help the boys.

The players that play for the team that catchersdad06 has, are good students, good boys, and parents who care about education, not just baseball.

Fan I was attacked by 06 for suggesting he should have a signed waiver before giving out info.
In my opinion he should allow the college to make their determination. Supply them with the info and let them make the decision. I was shocked at his attack after my suggesting this.
Infielddad has blown this out of proportion but he and TPM have a penchant for this. I tried to take it private as I am sure most would like us to do.
My son graduated last

I hope to he** if I ever send a pm ( PRIVATE MESSAGE ) to someone that they do not make it public without my consent. In my opinion, that should be against board rules and should be removed as well!

But to the original topic. I think we all know that grades are extremely important whether it has anything to do with baseball or not.

UCSD is one of the toughest academic schools in the nation. To my knowledge, there are no athletic admits, and knowing kids that attend it is grueling academically. Each athlete gets $500/yr. We were told that to be in D2 there had to be some athletic money. The student body voted to raise their fees a few years ago to fund the athletics.

You are a student first there and it certainly doesn't have a party reputation even though it's by the beach.

It seems like many of BH's posts need to come with a warning that they may contain inaccurate info. In other words, take it with a grain of salt.

BBHD,

I dont know about your relationship with the other posters, and PMs etc.I am just saying that here in Ca. we do give our travel coaches the boys grades. Coaches here, ask for them, and we as parents know that.
It seemed you were questioning that, and saying that coaches were invading privacy, and blindsiding parents.Thats what got people heated up.I am not trying to attack you personally.
I agree with you that coaches do take athletes with lower GPAs, but as said they dont take many.Not at the good academic schools, not anymore.

The main focus of this thread is GRADES do matter.For most of our boys who are good players, they need good grades.

Come on kids, lets remember "tis the season"

Do you all remember the last HSBBW "group hug"?



Let's see if stay away from that this time

rz1,

Do you have a signed waiver to post those boys (men) on this site.and group hug, all men??HMMMM

I dont know if my husband would want me in that group hug. Merry Christmas

quote:

It seems like many of BH's posts need to come with a warning that they may contain inaccurate info. In other words, take it with a grain of salt

Could you point out what I said that was inaccurate. I said absolutely zip about that college. If Harvard and the Ivies give Athletic Admits then it is a possibility that college does as well.

quote:

Originally posted by fanofgame:
rz1,

Do you have a signed waiver to post those boys (men) on this site.and group hug, all men??HMMMM

I dont know if my husband would want me in that group hug. Merry Christmas

This is funny.

quote:

Originally posted by fanofgame:
rz1,

Do you have a signed waiver to post those boys (men) on this site.and group hug, all men??HMMMM

I dont know if my husband would want me in that group hug. Merry Christmas

FOG,
Didn't you volunteer to be in the middle? , I think tpm stepped up last time, taking one for the team, to be the nucleus.

Being a High school web site and all, I can not answer that question as it may incriminate me.But if you all insist then ????

....and BHD is at the bottom!

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:


FOG,
Didn't you volunteer to be in the middle? , I think tpm stepped up last time, taking one for the team, to be the nucleus.

I did?

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:
BHD,
No need to PM to say this:

"MORON
Private Messaging
Host: BobbleheadDoll 1 participant

Invited: infielddad"

infielddad, you know everyone has problems finding that thingy over the ó; and a capital one at that.



Morón Air Base



Part of United States Air Forces In Europe

Oh boy oh boy, all I can say is Merry Christmas!!!

Thanks CABB, Happy Holidays to you to

This kind of thing often happens this time of year - the interim period from fall ball to the start of the new season, sigh....

Has anybody ever heard about good grades working against you? After a few school visits and calls from coaches last year my son was hit with a comment from a coach last year that because of his commitment to his studies that a coach questioned his dedication to playing ball in college.My son made no bones about the fact that he was going to college to further his education, not just to play baseball.Son has always been an overachiever both in the classroom and on the field(not the most talented or smartest but excellent results).The comment from that coach caused my son to rethink the whole process again to where he has decided to shy away from the D1/D2 thing and just go after the academic side of things and let the chips fall where they may.

Ken,

"Has anybody ever heard about grades working against you"

Yes, but in a different way than you experienced. My son's goals were to leverage baseball as a way to get into a top school/play D1 baseball....to be a student/athlete....in that order. He has done this, and we are very excited about his choice. Along the way, we met several D1 coaches who actively recruited him. When it came time to work on the financial aspect, it was assumed by the coach that he would get more academic money rather than an increased amount of baseball money (a bump up from their initial 25% offer). Well, as you may (or may not) know, you have to apply to the school Earlier Decison or Early Action to be eligible for that academic money because the coach can't guarantee that academic money. In the coaches eyes, he is trying stretch out his baseball scholarship dollars. That is his business, and we get that. However, coaches need to set expectations with players and parents up front in this area.

While he is an excellent student and baseball player, we decided against further pursuing a few schools because of their academic money assumptions.

If you have questions about specifics, you can PM me.

A few of the D-3 schools that my son has applied to have academic calculators that show the range of money that he would recieve with his numbers. All the D-1 schools that he has applied to do not offer athletic money, but I see your point.

I think the folks here hold their kids/players to a higher standard. We all know that that a four year degree is far more likely than an MLB contract. imo, That needs to be the consistent message, but in the real world, there will always be exceptions. Starry eyed parents/players are always willing to go down the path of least resistance. That path does not lead to success.

All you need is a good showing or two - I think the roster limit rule is pressuring coaches into making snap decisions. I've seen kids verbal without exploring other options, without knowing the coach or the staff, without any consideration to academics. The coaches are goin' crazy (only looking at what happens on the field), and the kids and parents are being dazzled!! This has been discussed in the early signing threads too.

The NCAA says all you need is a 2.0 GPA and a 1010 SAT - so a kid really shouldn't be penalized if he or she are at that level academically. I mean, if the NCAA says it is good enough..... So I'm being sarcastic - the standard is abysmally low. Obviously there are plenty of schools that require more, but ... if gives the coach a lot of leeway.

Not the message the HSBBW wants to send, but people need to be prepared for seeing it happen.

I propose that even more important than achieving good grades in high school is developing effective study habits and working to one's potential.

In high school, my son was always one to do just enough to get by. He was fairly disinterested in school and, despite our pleas and admonishments, would never put forth sustained effort to achieve the higher grades he was capable of. He ended up with a 3.0 GPA, 22 ACT, and 980 SAT -- just high enough to get into the school that was recruiting him, but certainly nothing to write home about.

Now, he is a college sophomore who is struggling with his classes -- not because he is dumb, but because he never developed the study skills necessary to achieve a high level of success. The coaching staff will be ramping up tutoring, accountability, etc. this spring and we are hopeful that it will help, but in retrospect we should have come down HARD on him early on in high school when it became obvious he was doing the bare minimum.

Let this be a warning to all the high school parents out there who are allowing their sons to slide academically. Your complacency may come back to haunt you. Lots of "woulda, coulda, shoulda's" currently being uttered at our house.

Keep in mind that the 2.0 and 1010 cited is for being NCAA eligible to play---it does not guaranttee you admission to a any school, especially in todays world

I would also be concerned with any coach who questions a players being too dedicated to his academics---if a player becomes ineligible because of grades the team gets punished in terms of APR and scholarships--the more solid a player is in the classroom the better for the overall team picture

To me the habits should start earlier than HS.
In my one daughter's case, she was constantly belittled by her grade 6 teacher. I had a chat with her and things improved. Fortunately we moved and her next teacher turned her around and she graduated college with an honors degree.
My son had the same teacher and he was also the coach for basketball and volleyball. He had an incredible effect on my 2 kids. I remember getting a call from my son's previous teacher. Well actually it was from a psychologist saying my son had no issues. I asked her what she was talking about. She told me they tested him because he wasn't finishing his tests etc. They suspected he might be slow. It turned out he was fine he just a very detailed type of intelligence. They told him he had to work faster and he did.
My daughters all had to work hard but my son just didn't. You always knew when my daughters were writing exams and my son it was life as usual.
Most players I have observed over the years all had different development rates in academics as well as BB. Some just have it easier than others in both. They are what they are and if they don't understand that marks will get them more academic money and open opportunities by HS you have to hope the light will go on eventually. For those who are not academically inclined all is not lost.

We have always discussed the importance of good grades to my son and daughter. My son is a senior this year recovering from TJ surgery and most D1's wanted to wait to see how he recovers this spring and summer. Top academic D3's stayed interested and he applied early decision and was just admitted to an excellent D3 school with a substantial amount of academic money. Which without we would not be able to send him to this school. This was all about grades though I'm sure the baseball coach was able to put in a good word for him. The bottom line came down to course's taken (mostly honors and 6 AP courses plus 3yrs of one language and 4 of another, ACT scores and his interview.
Something that also amazed me is they wanted to know the courses he is taking as a senior to show he was not slacking off as a senior.

quote:

Originally posted by Infield08:
I propose that even more important than achieving good grades in high school is developing effective study habits and working to one's potential.

In high school, my son was always one to do just enough to get by. He was fairly disinterested in school and, despite our pleas and admonishments, would never put forth sustained effort to achieve the higher grades he was capable of. He ended up with a 3.0 GPA, 22 ACT, and 980 SAT -- just high enough to get into the school that was recruiting him, but certainly nothing to write home about.

Now, he is a college sophomore who is struggling with his classes -- not because he is dumb, but because he never developed the study skills necessary to achieve a high level of success. The coaching staff will be ramping up tutoring, accountability, etc. this spring and we are hopeful that it will help, but in retrospect we should have come down HARD on him early on in high school when it became obvious he was doing the bare minimum.

Let this be a warning to all the high school parents out there who are allowing their sons to slide academically. Your complacency may come back to haunt you. Lots of "woulda, coulda, shoulda's" currently being uttered at our house.

That is a wonderful post with much wisdom.

Before you beat yourself up too much however, I have three kids. Two of them I have no woulda, shoulda, coulda's. The funny thing with those two, I really dont' feel it is appropriate for me to take any credit because they both seem to be naturally motivated in their own right.

With my other one however, all I mostly have is regret in my abilities as a parent. While parents are in fact responsible how their kids turn out, some of this burden/ responsibility must also fall on the kids themselves imho. If that were not the case, then all my experiences ought to be the same when in fact they are quite different.

bb1

You mention languages which is a great point--a lot of HS counselors will sway kids from taking two years of a language saying one year is enough---most colleges require two years---DO NOT GET TRAPPED

The college he will be entering in the fall also has a mandatory language requirement so he has to continue while he is there. Believe it or not he dropped Spanish this year and continued on his 4th yr of Chinese.

It's so easy to go through this process with rose colored blinders, you definetly need someone who can look at things objectively, who can't do that any better than a coach?
Trust me and many will agree, until your child lands up at college, you have no clue how difficult things can get. Mine was an excellent student, and a very good baseball player, but reality hit hard when he went off to school, he realized just how difficult trying to make it all happen can be. It took one full semester to learn to really buckle down and not only produce on the field but in the classroom and you are talking about an honors straight A HS student.
If a program has interest in my son and he doesn't have the academic requirements (or the talent level) for that program, I'd think twice about whether it was a good fit, even after having done all my homework, I want someone else to be objective and see things from the other side.

There is no harm, IMO, of travel or HS coaches being honest with their players about their ability (bb talent and academics) and answering coaches questions, honestly. Why would I want my player to go to a school where he will struggle in the classroom? Or on the field? In fact, I would be pretty darn ****ed if any coach led any college coach to beleive that my player would be right for their program if he wasn't.

Following what TPM has posted I have seen kid that were mediocre students and could have gotten in certain schools with coaches help--but what is the sense if the boy has to struggle to stay eligible---it is a recipe for disaster

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
bb1

You mention languages which is a great point--a lot of HS counselors will sway kids from taking two years of a language saying one year is enough---most colleges require two years---DO NOT GET TRAPPED

Excellent point, in the state of FL requirements are 2 years language for state school, at Clemson it was 3 for admission. Because son had so many math and science credits in HS, they waived the third year needed for language.
Did his talent in baseball help that cause, yes, did having honor math classes/science help also, you bet.

The comment the coach made about dedication to playing ball in college vs. studies most likly put things in a clearer light for my son as I think he is more focused on what he is looking for at the next level.

Do you consider an athlete with a 3.0-3.1 GPA a terrible student ?
3.0 in most conferences puts you on their honor roll.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Do you consider an athlete with a 3.0-3.1 GPA a terrible student ?
3.0 in most conferences puts you on their honor roll.

Of course not, but that doesn't mean he will be able to handle playing baseball and attending a school where the admissions requirements are 3.8+ or 1300+SAT scores. Maintaining a 3.0 in HS doesn't mean that you can do it in college.
What's your point?

quote:

Originally posted by ken:
The comment the coach made about dedication to playing ball in college vs. studies most likly put things in a clearer light for my son as I think he is more focused on what he his looking for at the next level.

BHD,
Haven't you stated once that your son took an extra year after HS for college entry? Not sure why he did this, but would he have been able to do as well as he did in college if not for that extra year?

That makes a big difference, there is another topic being discussed about that.

We know all kids are different, I have two and they are like black and white, though they both came from the same parents, raised basically the same, each developed differently. My daughter did not attend 4 year college, she barely could make it through JUCO so why put her in a siuation she couldn't handle.

My son got better grades, had more success in HS, yet my daughter is 10 times smarter than he will ever be, and works in an industry where most are graduate students and she doesn't even have a 4 year degree and can do any task put in front of her in 5 minutes while it would take others 2 weeks.

Kids are wired differently, a parent has to be able to recognize this through their unique personalities, but I don't beleive in placing young adults in situations they never will be able to handle. When playing a sport and attending college both at the same time, you don't have years to turn things around.

Although you allude to the fact that college academics came easy for your son, most will tell you it ain't that easy.

3.0 is definitely no slouch. However, it depends a lot on the courses that have been taken. Colleges want to see that a student is taking the toughest courses his school has to offer. In other words, honors and AP. If that is not the case then a 3.0 at a school that requires a 3.8 is a stretch and that is what worries coaches the most, will the kid stay eligible?

quote:

Originally posted by bb1:
3.0 is definitely no slouch. However, it depends a lot on the courses that have been taken. Colleges want to see that a student is taking the toughest courses his school has to offer. In other words, honors and AP. If that is not the case then a 3.0 at a school that requires a 3.8 is a stretch and that is what worries coaches the most, will the kid stay eligible?

You are right, 3.0 is great, but it also depends on what courses you are taking, a 3.0 in honors and AP holds a lot more substance than a 3.0 in regular HS courses.

I have stated this before, take a look at SAT/ACT requirements at most universities, that is the level they teach at, if your student's test scores are in the 900's why place them in an environment where 1300+ is the norm. Because they got a 3.0? The NCAA allows a sliding scale but that isn't reality these days, that is just for entry level for which division your student qualifies for. I don't want to hear about how kids just don't test well, tests are not all about how well you know the material, but how you approach situations to figure things out. Lots of psychological stuff goes into it as well.
When preparing for the SAT, I looked at those questions trying to figure out how anyone not having honors math could do well, yet I know of some that took no honors classes and scored pretty high.

quote:

BHD,
Haven't you stated once that your son took an extra year after HS for college entry? Not sure why he did this, but would he have been able to do as well as he did in college if not for that extra year?

I have already explained this to you at least 6 times. Had nothing to do with marks or BB. He wanted to play one more year of HS basketball. His marks would get him into any college in the country. He also wanted to take calculus which is required here to take a B Commerce.
Many guys do better in college than HS. They can be more motivated especially with BB hanging over their heads. They also get free study hall and tutoring.
Also the subjects in HS can be less relevant than college courses.

quote:

My son got better grades, had more success in HS, yet my daughter is 10 times smarter than he will ever be, and works in an industry where most are graduate students and she doesn't even have a 4 year degree and can do any task put in front of her in 5 minutes while it would take others 2 weeks.

So I guess you agree when I say GPAs are everything.

quote:

I have stated this before, take a look at SAT/ACT requirements at most universities, that is the level they teach at,

That is so quaint. Teaching at different levels according to the admissions level.
I would put to you that they teach at the level they can. Many of my son's profs were prestige graduates and taught at prestige schools.

BHD,
Where did you say GPA is everything?

It is not quaint.

Here's an example, Duke University admissions standards are much higher then Charleston Southern, even much higher than Clemson University, are you suggesting that they teach classes on the same level?
I don't think so. My son's BF attended Duke, a 4.5 and a 1250 SAT, he had no clue what was going on in his classes, he went way over his head.

quote:

Duke, a 4.5 and a 1250

College admissions are on a 4.0.
Yes I am saying professors teach at the same level regardless of college.
My son competed with grads from several prestige universities and he got the job offers.
He also was involved in a world wide competition with over 10,000 students from the top colleges. He came in 84th.
My son was in the top 5% world wide in his math SAT score.
I love people who buy into this branding, you can sell them more stuff at a higher price.

I meant his friend had a 4.5 which helped him get into Duke but he couldn't keep up, with baseball.

You are so totally wrong that all schools teach on the same level.

My son, my son, my son, you need to understand that your son is completely different from the next guy. Because he did something and was successful and it came easy to him doesn't mean that will happen for everyone. And regarding the job offers, have heard that in more posts than I have fingers along with the world wide competition.

Who really cares what % your son came in on the SAT math level, this is an issue I have with you, that has no relevance, as most that you post lately to giving advice to others in teh recruiting process.

As far as you saying GPA is everything, you went after 06 because he told some coaches that some players might not make it at a school because of their GPA. Am I the only one who thinks you say one thing in one post and another thing in another post, not consistant, IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
Am I the only one who thinks you say one thing in one post and another thing in another post, not consistant, IMO.

No you're not the only one who thinks that. But you seem to be one of the few who uses BBHD's posts to further fuel a repeating rebuttal process when everyone else just lets it go.

Yup, you are absolutely correct and I will continue to do so when members or their players are insulted, time and time again or every good topic (like this one)goes south.

You want to bring us some good stuff, no problem.

quote:

As far as you saying GPA is everything, you insulted 06

That was meant to be sarcastic. Your example of your daughter reflects my point.

TPM you are probably correct. I never checked because we didn't have to worry about admissions.
So my son's low admission college has some high quality students like my son's 2 roommates.

As I said many of my son's profs graduated at and taught at prestige schools.
I didn't know they toned down the lectures. Are you serious ?
My college was full of Rhodes Scholars. I also took classes at Brock U and U of Toronto. Same old stuff. No difference.

quote:

Originally posted by workinghard:
I hope to he** if I ever send a pm ( PRIVATE MESSAGE ) to someone that they do not make it public without my consent. In my opinion, that should be against board rules and should be removed as well!

But to the original topic. I think we all know that grades are extremely important whether it has anything to do with baseball or not.

Because any member wishes to use a private message to make their point does not mean that the receiver has to agree. I'd keep that in mind.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
bb1

You mention languages which is a great point--a lot of HS counselors will sway kids from taking two years of a language saying one year is enough---most colleges require two years---DO NOT GET TRAPPED

Excellent point, in the state of FL requirements are 2 years language for state school, at Clemson it was 3 for admission. Because son had so many math and science credits in HS, they waived the third year needed for language.
Did his talent in baseball help that cause, yes, did having honor math classes/science help also, you bet.

Again, some excellent points. One school interested in my daughter has a "Fine Arts" requirement. My dd is taking 4 years of math, science, spanish, ... She doesn't have one break or easy class. So, our guidance counselor called that school yesterday to work on our options since my daughter would, if forced, drop one of these (science) classes next year to get in the fine arts. We were told that with her "load" that her efforts would be rewarded and that requirement dropped. It is standard operational proceedure with students that have an "overload" of core classes for many universities.

For CA colleges (UC's, CSU's) a fine art class is required and they won't let you substitute another class for it.

Also, something I discovered in helping my son research college requirements is that if you take 4 years of one foreign language you most likely don't have to take more foreign language in college.

As a sophomore in college this year my son is really reaping the benefits of having worked hard in high school. Some of his college friends are struggling through calculus now and have told my son they really wished they had taken it in high school like he did. The harder they work in high school the more prepared they will be in college.

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:

quote:

Originally posted by workinghard:
I hope to he** if I ever send a pm ( PRIVATE MESSAGE ) to someone that they do not make it public without my consent. In my opinion, that should be against board rules and should be removed as well!

But to the original topic. I think we all know that grades are extremely important whether it has anything to do with baseball or not.

Because any member wishes to use a private message to make their point does not mean that the receiver has to agree. I'd keep that in mind.

Correct Coach,
I will also keep in mind that when I send a private message it's meant to be private, regardless of the content, yet some may decide to make it public.

I always get a kick out of these conversations about grades and "quality" of schools.

As far as grades go - IMO - all it shows to me as an employer is whether or not you have applied yourself. Doesn't make much difference what school it was.

Did you - or didnt you apply yourself.

I would guess that over the last 20 years I have hired about 300 people. All corporate type jobs.

I have interviewed about 3,000.

The ratio has been incredibly consistent. You get some Ivy Leaguers - dumb as a rock - and as cocky as they come. You get others that are very smart - and present themselves as professionals from the get go.

Same for the colleges at the next "Notch".

And same for the colleges at the next "Notch" down.


Unless you are talking about potential brain surgeons - I just havent seen much difference at all.


That is why I think the whole "Ivy" League thing - to this day - is more about money and connections - than it is about true performance and true potential.

Then again - thats just been my singular experience.

Bottom line - Grades are important - regardless of what school you come from. The school itself - dont matter much to me.

workinghard,
JMO, but pm's are a way of communicating off of the main board.
It's not a vehicle for calling someone a moron, especially a long standing person who contributes some excellent stuff.
As far as I am concerned, not good board manners.


I understand that a lot goes into the hiring process for most companies, not just GPA or where a person attended. I am not going to hire anyone, even a genius, I don't care where he/she attended, if I do not think that they will be a proper "fit" for the job and the company.

The bottom line is that college entry is harder and harder to gain for many, even those special athletes who once were able to get in with 60 IQ's.

If it was so easy, everyone could just get into whatever place they wanted to, right?

The whole point of this topic is the importance of grades in HS, they are VERY important. Good grades open doors for many and gives good options. Better grades opens more. Personally for me, if I am sending my son to college, with a possible 18 credit work load they want you to have these days (to graduate on time)and PLAY baseball, he's going to go where he can find a balance, and not have to struggle in the classroom because he has 5 games a week for a whole semester, plus practice and time in the gym.

Not sure how all the other clutter entered into the topic.

TPM-
Agree with you 100%.
But I didn't see you say anything about someone publicizing a pm, that is what that is supposed to be, a "private message".
Again, pm's should not be used in that manner, but in my opinion, it's bad board manners when you publicize someones pm, regardless of content.

Sorry you misunderstood me, what is bad board manners is when someone calls you names or tells you to go FO in a private message.
I agree with what CoachB says.

Who told you to FO in a PM ?

Yes TPM you are the only other person to publish a PM that I know of in the 5 years I have been here.

BHD,
You need to get it together man and when you mess up, stop going after others.

Bobblehead,
Please, just stop.

Isn't it funny that only you and Infielddad attack my post all the time . Yes my posts can be controversial. Others disagree and state their views. I have been attacked for telling people about athletic admits now everyone seems aware that that practice exists. In fact I got a PM from a parent thanking me because they applied to a prestige school and got accepted.
I have been attacked for what I call the myth of prestige schools and employers have posted that they don't care what school you grad from. It is more important at post grad level in a specific discipline.
It seems that everyone who brings up a controversial point of you, they get attacked.
If you really care about where this started you will see that 06 threw the 1st punch on a question I asked TR. It was partly in jest as I know how TR feels about the world to day. 06 went over the top and got ugly. No one else did until Infielddad when nuts. He accused me of everything except starting the swine flus epidemic. It was clear to me his rant was personal So I tried to take it private and spare everyone this personal vendetta. It is true I have called you names and I did it because you continually attack what I say. You in fact seem to not even read or understand what I say because you are so intent about attacking me.
It doesn't work !

TPM-
Sorry you misunderstood me!
I agreed, PM's should not be used to to criticize or tell someone to FO.
But you did not say that PM's should be just that, Private messages, and you fail to say it's bad board manners to publicize a pm that you might have received.
Argue all you want TPM and anyone else who wants to defend it. It's wrong, simple as that.

It really amazes me when some on here refuse to admit they are wrong, simply amazing!!

Just to be clear I never told her to FO. I would never use profanity privately or otherwise.

workinghard,
I understand where you're coming from. I fall on the basic side of PM's should be private...however...

If you were to whisper to me, that you thought I was a jerk, there should be no expectation of privacy on your part. Now, if we were in a dialog, discussing something privately back and forth, then I would expect our conversation to be private.

The difference is, when one party blurts something out, vs. two parties drawing opinions out of each other.

If I pass you a note, unsolicited, I said it, unsolicited, and you can do with it what you want.

I think there's a difference.

And yes, I published part of someones unsolicited PM a month or so ago, to show that he was a liar. He was publicly saying one thing on the board and then privately claimed something else to me trying to curry my favor. So basically, I outed him, but it was his own doing, as I had not engaged him in the PM, he had initiated contact.

This may sound like a stupid question but why is a PM private if the receiver feels offended and goes public with it---may as well have all the PM's on the board

Solicited or unsolicited PM's should remain just that--- PRIVATE ---if the sender wanted it public he/she would have sent it as a PM--he/she would have posted in a forum---

CPLZ-
I appreciate the tone in which you explained your thoughts. I also understand your rationale.
But, agreeing to disagree I guess, I just think when you say or send something in private, it should be private. Why not just call it "messaging" then.
In my opinion, content doesn't matter (unless of course someones health or life is in jeopardy).

quote:

I just think when you say or send something in private, it should be private

Me too

Mother and I don't like it when you all ( Miscommunicate )

So What we Have here is a Failure to Communicate.

If it continue's, you will spend the night in the box.

I don't like it anymore then you do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...cOIQ&feature=related

EH

It's rather ironic people are arguing over what "private" means in the thread about the importance of grades in high school. Maybe the thread should be the importance of vocab in English? What is the definition of is?

Going back to a previous subtopic - is there a point where too high grades/test scores might hurt a bit? I heard something, since Ivy League schools have a limited number of athletic slots, that they might not give one to an athletic recruit who they think is qualified academically to a point where they suspect he will get in without athletic help. This scares me a bit because several non-athletes at my school were turned down at Yale and other top schools this year and all had stellar GPAs and 2300+ SAT scores (2 had perfect scores; I guess admissions has just become THAT competitive). Is this all nonsense because it sounds like a myth to me; I just want to make sure that it is.

Monstor athletic admits or slots as you call it refers to getting in with lower than normal scores. A high GPA won't hurt you and if you have scores that would normally get you in you don't need a slot. They do however look at more than scores.
If it is an Ivy they don't give athletic money but other schools that do may give you less athletic money and rely more on academic money in an attempt to Save athletic money.

Monstor: Thank you for getting back to the subject.

To get into an Ivy (or Stanford) takes more than stellar GPA's and test scores. Most applying would make it on their scores. What I have been told is that are looking for something that differentiates the candidates, be it community service, or some other non-scholastic reason.

Regardless of what BHD thinks, getting a degree from one of the Ivy's or Stanford will be a life changing experience and will follow the graduate the rest of his life.

What I say is getting a degree from any college can be a life changing experience. Getting into any Ivy is an honor if that is what you want.

quote:

Originally posted by BOF:
Monstor: Thank you for getting back to the subject.

To get into an Ivy (or Stanford) takes more than stellar GPA's and test scores. Most applying would make it on their scores. What I have been told is that are looking for something that differentiates the candidates, be it community service, or some other non-scholastic reason.

Regardless of what BHD thinks, getting a degree from one of the Ivy's or Stanford will be a life changing experience and will follow the graduate the rest of his life.

I agree with your last statement. I remember when son's friend messed up and had to leave Duke to go to another school, Sully told son what a shame, that Duke piece of paper would have opened more doors than one can imagine, that's coming from a college coach, those that don't agree can go argue with him.
If those degrees, from those type of schools don't mean much, why do kids work their tails off in the classroom in HS to try to get admitted, and then pay 50-60K a year for the same thing they could get elsewhere (as some claim).

Here we go again !!

quote:

To get into an Ivy (or Stanford) takes more than stellar GPA's and test scores. Most applying would make it on their scores. What I have been told is that are looking for something that differentiates the candidates, be it community service, or some other non-scholastic reason.

One of those perfect SAT scorers who didn't get into his top choice was also a top-10 debater nationally. Even with extra qualifications it seems nobody except recruited athletes with likely letters are sure things at Ivy schools anymore. I'm worried that maybe a coach, who doesn't know how hard it has gotten, will assume that I'll be able to get in without his using an athletic spot on me.

Also, regarding non-Ivies...Is the academic money generally less generously given than the athletic money? Because that would be unfortunate...Also, does Stanford give academic money, it seems unlikely because to get in without academic money you have to be a phenomenal student already but they aren't bounded by Ivy limitations so I'm curious...

Congratulations on even being considered for an Ivy it is an outstanding achievement.

You can be sure that the coach knows how difficult it is to get into his school. The key is - does he want you and how much. (I guess like all schools)

I don't know the answers to all of your questions, but the fact is that there is considerably more academic money available than athletic money. I will know more on Stanford after the first of the year. However to play at Stanford you must be A+ academically and A+ baseball wise. If you are wondering if a Ivy wants you baseball wise, then forget about Stanford. I can’t think of another school that has those kinds of requirements. (there probably is one some one will remind me)
Good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by BOF:
Monstor: Thank you for getting back to the subject.

To get into an Ivy (or Stanford) takes more than stellar GPA's and test scores. Most applying would make it on their scores. What I have been told is that are looking for something that differentiates the candidates, be it community service, or some other non-scholastic reason.

For the typical student yes, stellar test scores and gpa are required. For the kid who can throw 95 mph, run like deer on the football field. Academic requirements can be considerably lower for those who can perform in a mainstream sport.

I'm not worried so much that Ivies aren't interested in me as an athlete (and yes, right now Stanford is an outside shot but if I continue my current off-season progression, who knows?); I'm pretty sure that some Ivy coaches will be interested in me. Rather, I'm concerned that an Ivy coach will look at my academic qualifications and think to himself that, even though he wants me as an athlete, he doesn't need to use an "athletic slot" on me because he feels that I will get into the school anyways and that he can save that slot for someone else while I just join the team after I'm admitted. (Wow that was a long, run-on-ish sentence!)

All I'm really asking is if this sort of thing happens to anyone's knowledge. If coaches are truly aware of how hard it is to get into a top academic school and don't take these sort of risks on athletes they truly want, then I'm glad to hear that and this minor concern is resolved .

Gee, popular thread. I take off to go duck hunting for a day and miss 5 pages of posts.

BHD, I probably shouldn't waste my time explaining this, but in case any other folks do have interest I will elaborate on my earlier comments. I've told some of the players and parents that perhaps more than 90% of what goes on with recruiting players for college is stuff that the players never see. Conversations about potential prospects occur regularly between college coaches and lower level coaches, and nobody knows what was said, as those involved realize that the information should stay confidential. Academics are virtually always part of these discussions, but also questions about off-field habits and conduct, character evaluations, family life and also a lot about their baseball skills. Telling a coach that a kid doesn't have the grades to get into a certain university isn't harming a kid, it is saving everyone time. None of those three kids would have survived academically at UCSD even if they could have gotten in. Two of them are going to be at state universities, and those are good fits academically and athletically. BHD, the parents of those players are very grateful for the help their sons were given, not angry that I told the coach they don't have grades for his school. By the way, UC San Diego is probably the 2nd most difficult university to gain acceptance into in the western states, behind only Cal Tech. It has a higher minimum academic threshold than UCLA, Cal, UC Davis, Stanford or any of the other private universities.

Any kid who aspires to play in college should realize that they have to take their academics very seriously and that it will be a subject of initial discussions as much as their baseball ability. I tell all my players that the first question a college coach asks any high school or other coach isn't about a kid's fastball or ability to hit for power; it is 'what are his grades like?' When approached by a college coach asking about a player, I can assure you that this specific question is asked in almost all cases and is one of the very first questions asked. No college coach wants to waste his time recruiting, or even paying attention to, a player he can't recruit. I think you'd find that most lower level coaches who have built relationships with college coaches are very honest with the college guys, and that is the only way to be. If you lie to a college coach, word gets around quickly and every kid following along behind the one you lied for will be harmed by the broken trust that a well intentioned coach brought on himself by not being forthright when discussing a prospect. Having a different opinion or evaluating a kid differently happens all the time, but lying about stuff that can be checked is something no coach should ever do for any player. If there are concerns about a kid, it is simple to say "Coach, be sure you do your homework thoroughly" instead of trashing a kid. They know they've just been given a warning that there is more they need to find out, and they appreciate knowing that. BHD, you should also realize that college coaches do care about what kind of parents a player has, even though college coaches usually won't have much if any interaction with mom and dad beyond exchanging pleasantries. I was once trying to convince a college coach about what a great fit I thought one particular player would be for his program, and the response I got was "I know the kid would make us better, but his dad is a big *ssh*le and I won't have his kid on my team because I don't want to hear from his dad all the time." That kid did end up playing with another program, and is doing well but his dad's bad behavior cost him other opportunities. So, if you think that the only thing that is discussed among coaches is a kid's athletics, you're way, way off.

Just to get back to the SAT score talk. Son and I went on a visit to Princeton last spring and 1 of the comments the speaker said was that they reject more perfect SAT scores then they admit, there is more to a schools STUDENT BODY then SAT or ACT scores.If that is all they or a baseball coach needs to go by then everything would just stop after testing or coaches could just sign kids based on 60 times,pop times,velocity, ect. why bother watching a kid play the game?I remember Bill Parcells commenting on the NFL combine being the biggest waste of time and effort.

Monster there are as many athletic slots as there are roster positions at the college. Academic Admits can vary from college to college. It is not publicized but it is probably only a few. So if there are 35 roster spots then there would be 35 slot per your terminology. Maybe 3-4 spacial athletic admits.

06 I don't know why I waste my time either.
If you look at what I said and understand it you might not have over reacted.
I was not suggesting your relationship with your team and parents was less than stellar. I didn't say to get a Lawyer nor did I dump on the college.
I did say that you should get releases in todays world to avoid a potential law suit
CoachB25 and May do because their schools have legal advice and understand the possible problems.
As far as your post here I am very aware of the issues. I have also seen poor students become scholars.

Today even web sites have privacy policies at the bottom of the page.
Personally I disagree with coaches making judgment calls on a students academic ability based on marks. GPAs are important but they aren't everything. Yes they determine options to a degree and the amount of scholarship money you will get.

06catchersdad - thanks for taking the time to explain things. For starters, I am not sure how anyone back here in the east would know much about the California school system unless they were exposed to it at one point in their lives. I had no idea for example that UCSD was that tough to get into until you and infielddad pointed it out.

BHD - I see where you get yourself in trouble and it seems to me to be a simple error in logic. You seem to extrapolate general principles from your son's specifc circumstances and misapply them over and over again to circumstances that from the outside appear unrelated.

Back to some points raised by 06catcher'sdad... Things are often not black and white. I get how based off of knowledge of UCSD that one could discretely let a coach know that the kid would be unable to qualify. I would hope that if there were some uncertainty however, that coaches would error on the side of the kid. In other words, rather than summarily dismissing some kid with a college coach, one might say something like, "This kid is a pretty good student. He might struggle a bit with your school but he might be someone you want to invesitgate further regarding academics." It seems to me that you could signal the coach there might be some risk there but at the same time leave open the possibility that the risk was worth taking.

This brings me up to my ultimate point and it relates to what intermediaries ought to be saying and/or assuming about what is best for the student and what may or may not be best for the respective recruiter. I believe when it comes to athletics that there is a much bigger grey area than academics. I have heard of coaches in my own experiences and also here on the hsbaseballweb that may decide on their own where a kid might fit athletically at the next level. Some will even go as far as withholding contact information. I know of a case where a coach was approached by a D1 coach and the coach told the recruiter that he did not think that kid was D1 material. Moreover, he never even passed along to the kid or his parents that he was even contacted by said coach. I am not suggesting you would ever do anything like that 06catcherdad but I have heard of that scenario.

IMHO, there is no person on the planet that is 100% knowledgable about the future. That includes pro scouts, college coaches, high school coaches, and high end travel coaches. It seems to me that if a recruiter approaches a coach about a particular player, the player and his parents ought to be notified of the contact for many reasons.

Here is a hypothetical to clarify what I am saying. Recruiter approaches travel coach about player. Recruiter says "We saw player and like his ability. Specifically we like his power potential." Coach response 1: "That kid has never shown power here and frankly I don't see it. I really don't think that kid is a college level prospect." The rationale I have heard for these types of evaluations is that the coach does not want to lose "credibility" with the recruiters. Moreover, he never even passes along the information that some college coach showed some interest.

Now here is another response to the same inquiry Coach response 2: "Player has not shown a lot of present power but you might be right about potential down the road." Coach also lets the recruiter know of other positives about the kid and does everything in his power to present the kid in his best positive light. Coach is confident in the recruiters ability to determine whether or not the kid is a good fit. At no time does the coach misrepresent anything however. If asked why the kid is batting lower in the order for example or is the third starter, the coach gives his honest opinion. After the discussion, coach notifies player and parents of the contact.

Ken I couldn't agree more.
The Dean of Law at my University told me that the best Lawyers weren't the high mark guys. He said they look for well rounded students.
Even getting a job today often means psych test and SAT type exams. They just don't look at GPA and the college you graduate from. One job my son was offered had 5 different interviews, an on line Sat type and psych tests. It also had an 8 month training course after all that. The GPA was part of the package but not a deal maker.
Every kid is different but well rounded seems to be in vogue.

.

"IMHO, there is no person on the planet that is 100% knowledgable about the future."

I dunno 'bout that CD. Whenever I go in for a session with Madam Matilda...



...she always knows not to accept a check from me. Cash only!





.

CD trouble ? What trouble ? I was quite surprised at 06's response. Yes you said it very well for a Lawyer.
No not about my son's experience. Experience drawn on talks with at least a few hundred college players. I also help pick players on a local college which gets many US college players returning to play here.
I use my son's experience because it is in fact different.

I think it is dangerous to link all the Ivy's into one overall general statement. They are all very different. Each is independent and has different academic & athletic needs and requirements. Fenwaysouth son was recently admitted to an Ivy Early Decision (ED). My observation is that the ED admissions criteria were absolutely incredible. However, the weighting of GPA, class rank, essay, SATs & ACTS, "hooks" such as athletics varied between the Ivy schools that offer Early Decision (a couple don't). Yes, I read on some websites where a few students told of being rejected with perfect SATS. However, I have no idea if their GPA was exceptional or that their essay read well. In my son's case, they were looking for the truly exceptional well-rounded student. My son's hook was baseball, others had some very unique talents that set them apart from what I read on a website. My guess is Stanford would be the same (academically)but even more (athletically) given the demands of their athletic conference.

I have several people I know who attended Harvard. Their hook was a fat wallet. One his Dad was a successful Corporate Lawyer with big BB connections and Mom was a college prof. Many Hall of Fame players stayed at their home when they were here to see Dr John Gleddie.
Also have a friend at Harvard that is paid by them to go there for his PHD. You want to see recruiting ? It was far superior to athletic perks.

Also have friends who attended Cal Berkley and Serra Cosa JC. The guy at SC JC was a much better student than the guy at Cal. Both went on to graduate with no problem.

I know a guy who can suck a strand of spaghetti into his nose and make it come out his mouth. He was a special forces demolition expert that married a girl of Asian descent.

So that must mean, all yellow labs prefer Alpo and the sun shines on Tuesdays. Do you walk to work or carry your lunch?

.

"I know a guy who can suck a strand of spaghetti into his nose and make it come out his mouth."

The spaghetti...cooked or uncooked?



.

I remember that guy.

You cannot make broad based assumptions and apply them to everyone in a given situation.

Real life doesnt work that way.

The best employers look for talent that is appropriate for their needs. A 4.0 Harvard business school grad may be a perfect fit for one job - and a terrible fit for another. Either skillwise - or socially.

The only trait that I believe can be applied across the board for all employers is emotional intelligence.

Unless you will be working in a lab room all by yourself - emotional intelligence is a critical trait that is required for any well functioning business organization.

And you can find potential candidates from every school in the US that either have it - or do not have it.

Just my opinion.

Talent comes in all kinds of different packages. Fat Wallet is definitely not a talent for Fenwaysouth, however the spaghetti talent could be an acquired talent. Practice, practice, practice.....

.

Al dente?

.

quote:

Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
.

Al dente?

.

No, it was only a bruise, he's listed as probable.

CPLZ,
How funny.

Not sure about where this topic is headed, but I hope that regardless of whatever has been posted by everyone, that each player continues to pursue the schools and baseball programs that are good fits for them, not based upon opinions of any poster in general.
That would also include what coaches may have to say about players when asked, good recruiters interested in players do their homework, because they need to field the best players for their program, regardless of academics and talent. One thing I noticed, many coaches recruit based on balance. You will find the player with a 4.0 and a player with a 2.8 coming into a program. Why, talent and academics have to balance each other for the coach to maintain his required GPA, plus his production on the field. Can't imagine how hard that job must be. That's why so many scratch their heads when they hear about who signed where, like he's not a good student but very good player, or he is an excellent student but doesn't have the talent I would expect for that program. The ultimate decision lies within the recruiting coach, he will do his homework if he is truely interested, regardless of what anyone else says, if he doesn't do this, he's not doing his job. And yes he can very well pull strings to get a player into a program that may not be otherwise eligible, but as a parent, that is not what I would be looking for, with the assumption that my student MAY do better in college. I know my son, good at time management, good student, good player, but we also knew (and he) that he was going to college for the total experience, we felt that the smaller classes and degrees offered were more suited for him, he didn't want to spend all of his time either on the field or in the classroom and that is why he was discouraged from pursuing engineering.
Did it matter where he went to school for his education, absolutely, just as much as it mattered where he went to play baseball.

The recruiting experience is unique for each and every player, and new rules change many things that were standard practice years ago, it is very hard to relate my son's recruiting experience to what is going on now, baseball money is hard to come by, it was pretty free flowing back then when the coach didn't have to give a minimum.

Unless you are a stud player that will make a significant impact, one MUST put in as much effort on their performance in the classroom as well as the field to remain competitive.

TPM,

I agree with everything you've said especially what I've quoted below. A lot people come to this site to learn about college and pro recruiting...myself included. I have learned so much but you captured it all.

"The recruiting experience is unique for each and every player, and new rules change many things that were standard practice years ago, it is very hard to relate my son's recruiting experience to what is going on now, baseball money is hard to come by, it was pretty free flowing back then when the coach didn't have to give a minimum."

Also, you made a comment about coaches and their recruiting "balance". Balance is everything. Let's face it, they have a really, really tough job. They look at many thousands of kids to fill a few/couple spots for their school or organization based on so many criteria. I know a lot of them love what they do, and many are really good at it. A man has to know his limitions, and I know I couldn't do it. I've tried to put myself in their shoes, and I've come to respect them a lot more.

Thanks Fenwaysouth, my son's scholarship consisted of all baseball money, if he were to be recruited today, I doubt pretty much that would be the case, so as well as he did do in school, he might just have to do better for today's recruiting.

I thought things were competitive back then, boy have things changed.

That's why good grades are so imnportant.

6 or 7 yrs ago i would have said, who cares about grades? hearing all the story's about athletes going here and there on full rides. why worry? if it looks to good to be true, it probably is.

being an acedemic under achiever myself i didn't know any better. not only didn't the apple's fall far from the tree...we didn't get much of a roll either. while they are both going to be fine in life, we'd approach things different today.

regardless of what you want to do in life, good grades aren't just important they should be a must.from the voice of experience.

I'll throw this in to the discussion. I went to college in the mid 70s. I went on an academic scholarship. I played baseball. Take that for what it is worth but my college coach often remarked that I was "for free." Of course I was terrible as well and so, I can't account for how good "for free" was.

quote:

BHD, you should also realize that college coaches do care about what kind of parents a player has, even though college coaches usually won't have much if any interaction with mom and dad beyond exchanging pleasantries. I was once trying to convince a college coach about what a great fit I thought one particular player would be for his program, and the response I got was "I know the kid would make us better, but his dad is a big *ssh*le and I won't have his kid on my team because I don't want to hear from his dad all the time."

I must admit, I find this a little surprising. I would think a college coach would have enough control and/or experience over at the collegiate level that the parent issue would be sooo select/high school and not an issue anymore. I guess not.

You would be surprised how many parents call the coach or AD on a regular basis , some even on a weekly basis


Coaches do not need the grief and aggravation and it certainly does not help the player---in fact it can hurt him

quote:

Originally posted by workinghard:

quote:

BHD, you should also realize that college coaches do care about what kind of parents a player has, even though college coaches usually won't have much if any interaction with mom and dad beyond exchanging pleasantries. I was once trying to convince a college coach about what a great fit I thought one particular player would be for his program, and the response I got was "I know the kid would make us better, but his dad is a big *ssh*le and I won't have his kid on my team because I don't want to hear from his dad all the time."

I must admit, I find this a little surprising. I would think a college coach would have enough control and/or experience over at the collegiate level that the parent issue would be sooo select/high school and not an issue anymore. I guess not.

Don't let this statement shock you. That is why it is so important, IMO, for the parent to stay out of the recruiting process until they have to ( counter offers, questions before or after the offer), let the recruit develop his relationship with the coaches.
Funny thing a recruiting coach told us once, he really doesn't like dads calling and asking tons questions, but moms can call whenever they want and ask whatever they want.

I won't mention him by name, but we have discussed this coach here a few times and it wasn't my son's coach. Great sense of humor.

TPM

what are your thoughts on parents calling the coach after the boy is a rostered player? I am talking either Mom or Dad

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
TPM

what are your thoughts on parents calling the coach after the boy is a rostered player? I am talking either Mom or Dad

TR depends on what for. If you are talking about calling to ask why son isn't playing, no, never.
Major injury to discuss options with coach, no problem.
Concern over grades should be directed to the athletic or academic advisor.
AD, NEVER.
It's tough question for me, as you know that I spoke to Sully on occasion and so did husband, but mostly due to the friendship, which is still to this day. But Sully was like that, he kept his line of communication open with all the pitchers parents, one mom was so distraught over her son going so far away he spoke to her everyday for a week to make her feel better. Clemson was an unusual situation, some parents of players from far away actually moved in their son's last season, it was not discouraged by the coaching staff, but I am not sure I agree with doing that.
I actually saw (and heard) a parent pull KO over to the side and went off because his son had lost his start, now that's not his business to tell coach how to run his team, for any level. It was embarrassing, some of us heard, in that case, call him up if you plan on making a scene.

Talked to HC twice over the phone during recruiting, that was it.

When you live so far away, have opportunities to send your son much closer to home, it's very tough, for us it was hard, but we knew and understood that, and trusted the coaches would take care of him, which they did, that doesn't happen often, so I should never say never call.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
You would be surprised how many parents call the coach or AD on a regular basis , some even on a weekly basis


Coaches do not need the grief and aggravation and it certainly does not help the player---in fact it can hurt him

Then I'm a coach's dream, I never talk to the HC. Should I put this on the questionnaire?

55mom

I only advise the parents of my players what to do or not do

Sorry

I think she was kidding.

But I do strongly agree with TR's advice.