JUst a quick question...What is the probper loadf in a swing. Like how much bat tilt etc. i know this varies among players, but what is the "proper" way.
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The proper load is the one that establishes the greatest amount of potential energy and allows the greatest range and freedom of motion.
It will vary from player to player depending on such variables as strength of player and size/weight of bat.
It will vary from player to player depending on such variables as strength of player and size/weight of bat.
I should let the experts handle this ..but IMO the load is just the weight shift back. Everyone is a bit different depending on comfort. Keith Hernandez said his load wasn't complete until his number 17 was facing the pitcher.
Nice Sandman! Did you put that together? Easy to follow.
Thanks BBK3. Yes, I wrote it a couple years ago after filming our entire 12U AAU team and realizing that the loading sequence was more of a one-piece, hips and shoulders at the same time in every single one of them. The graphics at the top are my son, which I used as the example of "how NOT to do it". 
I then showed the animated GIF and some video clips to the team (yes, I brought my laptop to an indoor winter practice 
). Then we coaches spent the first half hour or so of practice walking around and helping the hitters get the idea during dry swings. Then we gave each player a printout of the article to take home to discuss w/ their parents (or throw in the trash, who knows? 
).
Of course, I don't claim any miracle fixes, and I'm sure many/most of them are still not doing it. These kids were good hitters already; but we felt that if we exposed them to this, they might eventually try to work towards it.
It's still a challenge to master this though. My 14YO freshman son understands it completely and can do it in dry swings or even tee. But vs. live pitching he still reverts. We'll keep working on it though, as I do believe it's one of the most important "absolutes" we see in common among all high-level hitters, but not in very many amateurs.
I then showed the animated GIF and some video clips to the team (yes, I brought my laptop to an indoor winter practice ). Then we coaches spent the first half hour or so of practice walking around and helping the hitters get the idea during dry swings. Then we gave each player a printout of the article to take home to discuss w/ their parents (or throw in the trash, who knows? ).Of course, I don't claim any miracle fixes, and I'm sure many/most of them are still not doing it. These kids were good hitters already; but we felt that if we exposed them to this, they might eventually try to work towards it.
It's still a challenge to master this though. My 14YO freshman son understands it completely and can do it in dry swings or even tee. But vs. live pitching he still reverts. We'll keep working on it though, as I do believe it's one of the most important "absolutes" we see in common among all high-level hitters, but not in very many amateurs.
Sandman, It is a great paper. I used to wonder why most pro hitters can generate so much power. Your paper may give the answer. "Loading in right time". I will try your method with my son in spring break
baseballdad,
The load is creation of separation.
And the separation is between the hands and the rear knee.
The load is creation of separation.
And the separation is between the hands and the rear knee.
So if I simply push my hands as far rearward as possible, straightening my lead arm, then I've achieved optimum load? 
And I don't get your "rear knee" comment at all.
And I don't get your "rear knee" comment at all.
bbbaseball .....I get what your saying but IMO the load starts with a backward hip rotation then comes seperation
I didn't say push the hands back. You did. Pushing your hands back will load your lead arm and front side. That is a killer.
Load the rear arm and hands....not the front arm.
I said separation between the hands and the rear knee is the load.
Actually its between the hands and the rear hip....but it is 'seen' by the rear knee action.
Load the rear arm and hands....not the front arm.
I said separation between the hands and the rear knee is the load.
Actually its between the hands and the rear hip....but it is 'seen' by the rear knee action.
I know; you said:
My point was that that type of description leaves the door wide open for varied interpretations.
Even "load the rear arm and hands" doesn't mean much without a demonstration. Remember, we're on the internet here, not live w/ a player, where we can SHOW them what we mean.
quote:The load is creation of separation.
And the separation is between the hands and the rear knee.
My point was that that type of description leaves the door wide open for varied interpretations.
Even "load the rear arm and hands" doesn't mean much without a demonstration. Remember, we're on the internet here, not live w/ a player, where we can SHOW them what we mean.
Are you really interested?
I mean....you wrote and posted that link to 'loading sequence'......and then post clips of your son loading differently.
That link is at least 2 years old. How long does it take to teach the proper loading sequence?
Is it important to you?
I mean....you wrote and posted that link to 'loading sequence'......and then post clips of your son loading differently.
That link is at least 2 years old. How long does it take to teach the proper loading sequence?
Is it important to you?
As important as I believe that aspect of the swing is, there are constantly other issues to be addressed. Many of them can't really be worked on much during the season (for fear of analysis paralysis). Then once the season's over, we roll into basketball season. It ain't easy, that's for sure. But I suppose we need to devote maybe a few months this fall to really working on that.
It only takes a few minutes to TEACH the loading sequence. LEARNING it takes significantly longer, I'm afraid.
If you think it's easy and are insinuating that my article is off-base because my son isn't doing it correctly (agreed), then please show us the video of YOUR teenage players loading properly. I sure don't see many who do.
It only takes a few minutes to TEACH the loading sequence. LEARNING it takes significantly longer, I'm afraid.
If you think it's easy and are insinuating that my article is off-base because my son isn't doing it correctly (agreed), then please show us the video of YOUR teenage players loading properly. I sure don't see many who do.
That link has been on the internet for over 2 years.
How long does it take to teach the proper loading sequence?
Since what loads unloads, I would say that is as important as anything in the swing. Maybe the most important thing.
Load improperly....unload improperly.
Why would you attempt to fix other aspects of the swing without first fixing the load, when you consider that the load governs the unload.
I suspect it takes a lesson or two to teach it. And then it takes the dad, or instructor, to constantly insist that it happens. If that is going on, I would suspect it would become a part of him in a short period of time. Say a few weeks to a month. And then perfected over time with reps.
But the loading sequence should always be there after it becomes a part of him.
How long does it take to teach the proper loading sequence?
Since what loads unloads, I would say that is as important as anything in the swing. Maybe the most important thing.
Load improperly....unload improperly.
Why would you attempt to fix other aspects of the swing without first fixing the load, when you consider that the load governs the unload.
I suspect it takes a lesson or two to teach it. And then it takes the dad, or instructor, to constantly insist that it happens. If that is going on, I would suspect it would become a part of him in a short period of time. Say a few weeks to a month. And then perfected over time with reps.
But the loading sequence should always be there after it becomes a part of him.
I wish you were right and that it was that simple. As I said, it's not like we work on the swing year round. We don't pickup a baseball or bat pretty much from the end of fall ball until about a month before the Spring season. And DURING the Spring/Fall season, we don't really tinker that much w/ mechanics.
Please share w/ us the before/after video vs. live pitching of YOU changing a teenager's loading pattern in a few weeks.
Please share w/ us the before/after video vs. live pitching of YOU changing a teenager's loading pattern in a few weeks.
I see clips all over the net of youngsters asking for help, getting it, and immediately changing and fixing. Especially regarding the loading sequence. The loading sequence, the order, is about the easiest thing to change. And it makes a signifcant difference immediately. It takes a simple pointing out to 'do this in this order' for them to get it at a speed they can do it. It may take time to get up to speed within that sequence. But getting the sequence is not brain surgery or rocket science.
The 'it takes a while' syndrome is a crutch.
Yes, some kids get it quicker than others. None of the serious ones take two years.
The 'it takes a while' syndrome is a crutch.
Yes, some kids get it quicker than others. None of the serious ones take two years.
Then by all means, please provide a link to some of these kids who have drastically improved their loading sequences. And I DON'T mean dry swings, or tees, soft toss, etc., but actually carrying over the new pattern to LIVE swings. I think you are drastically over-simplifying how difficult it is to change the loading sequence. I have coached and filmed dozens of youth hitters over the past decade; I sure don't see such instant results. I suspect you don't either; but then again, I'M willing to test my success by watching the video, which doesn't lie. A lot of coaches think that if they simply bark out the cues, then their hitters hit a couple line drives, that they've performed miracle cures... when in reality, if they were filming, they might see otherwise.
For someone who sees so many quick fixes all over the internet, how is it that you only stumbled upon THIS site yesterday? Or have you gone by a different name on this site in the past?
For someone who sees so many quick fixes all over the internet, how is it that you only stumbled upon THIS site yesterday? Or have you gone by a different name on this site in the past?
The swings of your son that I've seen recently....the ones you've posted in the last few weeks as his high school season started.....none of them are game swings.
And he still doesn't do what you wrote about in the 'loading sequence' link.
After two years or more.
That doesn't speak to a 'taking it to the game' problem.
And he still doesn't do what you wrote about in the 'loading sequence' link.
After two years or more.
That doesn't speak to a 'taking it to the game' problem.
Who said anything about game swings? I said live swings, meaning even BP.
As for "two years or more" [of implied working on this loading sequence]... as I alluded to, we certainly do not work on baseball swing mechanics year-round. Rather, about a month or so before the Spring season starts, we start to ramp up. During the season, he certainly takes a lot of BP at home, but it's tough to balance trying to improve mechanics w/ just getting some good BP and not cloud up his head too much with another game just around the corner.
So shame on me for not taking a more focused, year-round approach to his hitting. But it is what it is.
Ok, so you know what I'm trying to help MY son improve upon and whether or not he's doing it [yet] doesn't take away from its importance. I think that much we agree on.
Now, actually achieving a better loading sequence might be something we can focus more on this fall - when he's in between baseball and basketball.
You said:
All this "I would suspect" stuff sounds like you haven't actually TRIED this? How have YOU gone about helping someone (a son, or just players you coach) improve their loading sequence? Just telling them about it and showing them or even getting them used to it in dry swings doesn't cut it, in my experience. If you're claiming that I'm basically a failure as a coach in my inability to help MY son do it properly, then please post before/after video clips of your hitter(s) facing live (game or just BP) pitching. And then we can all see how "easy" it was to perfect the loading sequence of a teenage player.
As for "two years or more" [of implied working on this loading sequence]... as I alluded to, we certainly do not work on baseball swing mechanics year-round. Rather, about a month or so before the Spring season starts, we start to ramp up. During the season, he certainly takes a lot of BP at home, but it's tough to balance trying to improve mechanics w/ just getting some good BP and not cloud up his head too much with another game just around the corner.
So shame on me for not taking a more focused, year-round approach to his hitting. But it is what it is.
Ok, so you know what I'm trying to help MY son improve upon and whether or not he's doing it [yet] doesn't take away from its importance. I think that much we agree on.
Now, actually achieving a better loading sequence might be something we can focus more on this fall - when he's in between baseball and basketball.
You said:
quote:I suspect it takes a lesson or two to teach it. And then it takes the dad, or instructor, to constantly insist that it happens. If that is going on, I would suspect it would become a part of him in a short period of time. Say a few weeks to a month. And then perfected over time with reps.
All this "I would suspect" stuff sounds like you haven't actually TRIED this? How have YOU gone about helping someone (a son, or just players you coach) improve their loading sequence? Just telling them about it and showing them or even getting them used to it in dry swings doesn't cut it, in my experience. If you're claiming that I'm basically a failure as a coach in my inability to help MY son do it properly, then please post before/after video clips of your hitter(s) facing live (game or just BP) pitching. And then we can all see how "easy" it was to perfect the loading sequence of a teenage player.
It appears you're getting a little testy.
I'll let it go.
I also will continue to refuse to buy the 'it takes time' excuse.
I'll let it go.
I also will continue to refuse to buy the 'it takes time' excuse.
And I'll assume you're a bag of hot air until you're willing to backup your claims of "ease" w/ video clips of your hitters.
Hmmm... there used to be someone else around here who posted the same type of sarcastic, in your face, you're wrong cuz I'm right tone... he fancied himself a "Teacher of Men". He was an absolute "Chameleon" at getting banned then returning under a different name. Deep down, he was really just a big "Oaf[er]".
When did you join this site? (uh, yesterday!) Yet you've seen lots of internet sites w/ hitters executing the proper loading sequence.
I can't say for sure that you're the same person... but you sure do sound like a close cousin!
Hmmm... there used to be someone else around here who posted the same type of sarcastic, in your face, you're wrong cuz I'm right tone... he fancied himself a "Teacher of Men". He was an absolute "Chameleon" at getting banned then returning under a different name. Deep down, he was really just a big "Oaf[er]".
When did you join this site? (uh, yesterday!) Yet you've seen lots of internet sites w/ hitters executing the proper loading sequence.
I can't say for sure that you're the same person... but you sure do sound like a close cousin!
So, you won't let it go.
I'll accept the role of a bag of hot air.
As long as you accept your role.
Again, how much time do you need?
I'll accept the role of a bag of hot air.
As long as you accept your role.
Again, how much time do you need?
I don't know how long? I'll keep working w/ my son tho and try to help him be the best he can be. THAT'S my role. How about you? Do you even work w/ anyone? Or do you just pontificate from behind your computer? We've all seen plenty of those types too... entertaining in their arrogance, but when all is said and done, lacking substance.
I do what most people who visit baseball web sites don't do (for whatever reasons; I'm not questioning them)... I'm willing to put up video clips of my hitter in order to help me learn what/how to teach. Like most coaches, during live BP, I think I see improvement, only to have the video later refute that. But most coaches I know, including many out here on the net, do not film, or if they do, they're not interested in posting. And that's all good.
But if you're going to call someone out, then shouldn't you really be willing to backup your claims w/ video evidence? If not, then you're just another self-proclaimed internet know-it-all wannabe.
I do what most people who visit baseball web sites don't do (for whatever reasons; I'm not questioning them)... I'm willing to put up video clips of my hitter in order to help me learn what/how to teach. Like most coaches, during live BP, I think I see improvement, only to have the video later refute that. But most coaches I know, including many out here on the net, do not film, or if they do, they're not interested in posting. And that's all good.
But if you're going to call someone out, then shouldn't you really be willing to backup your claims w/ video evidence? If not, then you're just another self-proclaimed internet know-it-all wannabe.
Again....I'm just a bag of hot air.
That's ok with me.
Lets leave it at that.
Don't want or need excuses.
That's ok with me.
Lets leave it at that.
Don't want or need excuses.
Buddy, I don't know what the heck your problem is??? I try to help my son as best I can to learn what I think can help him improve. Am I always successful? No. I have filmed dozens and dozens of youth hitters over the years, and worked w/ many over my 10 years of coaching? Yes. What I see to be the most common flaw is various forms of improper loading. THAT's why I wrote the article. If it helps someone else improve their players, great - irrespective of MY son's inability to incorporate it.
I'm not quite sure what you're trying so hard to attack bbbaseball? Do you disagree w/ the article? If not, then WTF?
I leave it to the original poster and the other readers to decide if my Loading Sequence article can help them.
I'm not quite sure what you're trying so hard to attack bbbaseball? Do you disagree w/ the article? If not, then WTF?
I leave it to the original poster and the other readers to decide if my Loading Sequence article can help them.
Problem?
My only problem is getting you to leave well enough alone.
This bag of hot air isn't interested any longer.
My only problem is getting you to leave well enough alone.
This bag of hot air isn't interested any longer.
quote:Originally posted by Sandman:
And I'll assume you're a bag of hot air until you're willing to backup your claims of "ease" w/ video clips of your hitters.
Hmmm... there used to be someone else around here who posted the same type of sarcastic, in your face, you're wrong cuz I'm right tone... he fancied himself a "Teacher of Men". He was an absolute "Chameleon" at getting banned then returning under a different name. Deep down, he was really just a big "Oaf[er]".
When did you join this site? (uh, yesterday!) Yet you've seen lots of internet sites w/ hitters executing the proper loading sequence.
I can't say for sure that you're the same person... but you sure do sound like a close cousin!
Hmmmmm......?
Sandman,
I completely agree with you, and obviously from first hand experience it takes a long time to fix mechanics and make them second nature. My question to you is, how do Major League hitters make their adjustments during the season? They have limited time to work on it and are constantly reinforcing bad mechanics with every game they play.
I know that Abreu went into a slump after hitting Twins pitcher Blackburn in the nose with a line drive. He went on his longest 0-for of his career. I forget the mechanical problem they had with him, but how did he fix it in just a matter of days?
Thanks...
I completely agree with you, and obviously from first hand experience it takes a long time to fix mechanics and make them second nature. My question to you is, how do Major League hitters make their adjustments during the season? They have limited time to work on it and are constantly reinforcing bad mechanics with every game they play.
I know that Abreu went into a slump after hitting Twins pitcher Blackburn in the nose with a line drive. He went on his longest 0-for of his career. I forget the mechanical problem they had with him, but how did he fix it in just a matter of days?
Thanks...
