The Manny Curse just started for the Red Sox.

No, No, kbat

A cooperative Manny might have helped, but David Price won this one.

...and that first Sox batter (Bay?) in the ninth was a K, not a BB.

Tampa Bay won of their own accord and hard work. Manny had nothing to do with it.

I don't believe in curses. Except for the Cubs...they'll never win!

The Red Sox gave it a great run but in the end, the DEVIL Rays are simply better and healthier.

I wish them good luck, they're fun to watch.

Infidel,

I was so glad that missed call on Bay's checked swing didn't end up turning the outcome. I don't know how a first base umpire, with only one job to do at that moment, and in that pressure situation, could have been asleep like that.

Luckily that's not what we're talking about this morning.

Though as good as Price was, it sure would've been cool if he'd've been credited with 4 straight K's the end the game, which is what should have happened!

With all due respect to the Sox, the story is not about them. It's all about the Rays, and even had they lost people would be talking about how badly they choked.
I'm am so impressed with David Price. A rook thrown into that situation, and coming up with a HUGE save.

quote:

The old Red Sox with Manny would outscore anyone at the end. The Red Sox are on the down hill from here.

What a crock. By the way, they did not win it every year Manny was here...it may just seem that way to those with short term memories.

Let's see...he assulted the traveling secretary. He assaulted a fellow employee. Here's something for you: go to work today...hit your secretary. Then, hit a co-worker. See if your company trades you. I assure you..the outcome will not be predicated on your daily work performance.

The game and series was about a young, talented team. If management loosens the purse strings (as free agency approaches for players) and keeps these kids together, the landscape of the AL East will change. They are goooood! Hit for power. Hit for average. Steal, keep pressure on the defense and manufacture runs. Young, quality pitching. Wow!

Lastly, the Sox are hardly on the way down. They, too, have many young, talented position players and pitchers. I'll tell you what, should they win the Mark Texeira sweepstakes and pick up another pitcher (Burnett?), the East will a battle ground.

welllll, if you were really a fan up until the trade, then you would have seen him hit Youk during a televised game. I'm guessing the conspiracy theorists will believe that was not a real image, either. Oh, and by the way, former teammates have come forward on radio talk shows and revealed what current teammates have told them. So, yep, it happened. Fortunately, the secretary (Jack McCormack) chose to not press charges.

Of course the expectation is to win the world series. Same with the Yankees, Mets, Dodgers, and a couple of other teams.

Not to mention, the Yankees went on to win, I don't know...26 freakin titles after they got the Babe (thus the Sox curse). How did the Dodgers do with Manny?

Speakin of made up by the media: Red Sox Nation. Oh, ain't that cute. No real fan says they're part of Red Sox Nation (except of course the pink hats!). You know, the ones who jump on and off the band wagon at each stop.

and, he finished by saying he's going home to wait for the highest bidder.

I just wonder if he needs to buy two tickets to fly home. You know, one for him, and one for his puppet master (Boras). Because Manny can't do anything without Boras' hand up his backside (although, he's probably just fishing for the wallet).

No doubt Manny is a great hitter and clutch. Maybe the best in baseball in the past 10 years. But their is also no doubt he can be a dog. What would you call a player who quits on his team to get out of a $20Mil a year contract. Just ask his ex teammates what they thought of him before he was traded.

quote:

What they need is just a little bit communication.
Without communicating to eachother (management and Manny), the pressure build up. All the negativities bloom up. Plus the meida comes out swinging, how can Manny be happy staying there. If the management stayed behind Manny from the start and keep Manny happy, this would never happened. And the money issue is always a two way street. The management wants to save money after Manny become a FA. So they try to talk down Manny. That maybe the other conspiracy theory

See, you're just a flamer.

Were you in the club house?

Do you factually know that mangement didn't communicate with Manny for 5 or 6 years?

Manny wasn't a free agent. Sox had two club-held options on him.

He was contractually bound to them for two optional years. If they chose to renew...they'd pay him $20 mil, and he'd be expected to show up, play, and not assault anyone. That's a clause HE wanted in the original contract. What else were they obligated to do to make him happy? (let me guess....pay him more...oh, what a surprise).

Kbat, you're just here to argue for the sake of arguing. Have fun playing with yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
Infidel,

I was so glad that missed call on Bay's checked swing didn't end up turning the outcome. I don't know how a first base umpire, with only one job to do at that moment, and in that pressure situation, could have been asleep like that.

Luckily that's not what we're talking about this morning.

Though as good as Price was, it sure would've been cool if he'd've been credited with 4 straight K's the end the game, which is what should have happened!

But....Drew got punched out on ball 4 to end the 8th, so if we're looking for accurate calls . My son and I had a good laugh with Price bringing that up in the postgame interview. "The guys said he swung." No, honey, your teammates were keeping you on a nice, even keel to make sure that sweet performance kept rolling for three more outs.

Good job, Rays!

kBat 2012. Greetings from Red Sox Nation.

You're way off on this one. I don't really think you're even serious.

It is far more likely that we will look back on thist string next year and laugh at the team that decided to meet his salary demands. I used to love watching Manny. Still do, actually. But the man is a complete loser as a human being, and no team can live with that for long. The leopard can only hide his spots for so long...

You're right! I think I might have heard Tim McCarver mention him too!!!

quote:

Manny's name will be mentioned many many times.....

...by people who are missing the point.

Manny was contractually obligated to play for the Sox if they exercised the options. He had zero to say about it (if he were living up to the contract).

So, being a Boras pawn, he had two options. Honor the contract and become a free agent in two years. That means Boras would have to wait 2 years to make a dime on Manny.

Or, be subversive and get run out of town. Based on Manny's most recent behavior witht he Sox, there were no indications he would show up to play on any given day. I believe the final straw was leaving the bat on the shoulders for three consecutive fastball strikes in a ninth inning comeback versus the Yanks. Add that to the fake injuries (limping on different legs on consecutive days), the flopping around the outfield (if you are really a Sox fan you would have seen these), and everything else (hittng players, hitting secretary, bad base running)...the Sox could not rely on him in pennant battle. Please don't say he was disrespected, there could not a more ridiculous statement.

Any one who knows Manny knows that he dogged it. Amazing how the injuries disappeared as he may have been the best player in MLB after the trade (or maybe Sabathia). That leads credence to the Sox side of the story....not Manny's.

The funny thing is, he is playing everyone for fools. He and Boras could not have anticipated this to turn out as well as it did. He played into big money. Bigger money than they could have imagined. Smart...but scummy none-the-less.

The real proof will be out in two years, when the big money is still being paid, and Manny is "tired" of that town too.

Kbat...

Don't you remember? Manny was going to be out for the season with an injured knee. The problem was he couldn't remember which one it was. Had the Sox not traded Manny he would have laid down like a dog.

With Ortiz playing hurt and Lowell out the Sox were a few clutch hits short of winning. Manny could have helped. Too bad his attitude sucked and he had to go. If you think dumping Manny is just about a faked knee injury and shoving an employee you have a very short memory. Francona tolerated Manny as long as he could. It makes him Humanitarian of the Year. I heard Manny was causing Francona health problems to the point where Francona was advised by close friends to pose a "him or me" stance with the Sox.

One player isn't big enough to bring down a franchise long term. The Sox are well run. They are built to compete every year from the farm system all the way to the parent team. Could Manny beat them with a clutch hit playing for the Yankees next year? it's possible. But he wasn't going to beat the Yankees with a clutch hit for the Sox with a fake knee injury.

Poor Manny he couldn't stand making 20 mil and having the Boston fans love him too much.

More than anything give the Rays credit. They could have rolled over and died after the devastation of game five. They didn't roll over in game six. They competed and lost. Then they came back, competed and won.

You don't suppose kbat2012 is just playing around again, do you?

It wasn't a very good first impression.

yeah, I saw that, too.

Not to mention, when someone comes on seeking advice, it's usually for a son, nephew, friend, teammate, etc.

If he hadn't been busted, I wonder if he would have posed TM as his son. Too bad TM's father didn't kick his a s s.

Nice guy!

kbat2012 - you are starting to remind me of ramrod, pic, and llorton - a bothersome troll here on the hsbbweb who simply loves to stir the pot and get in people's faces. It seems to me that you made your point (over and over) about Manny. Others are entitled their views as well. Please be mindful of the site manners:

quote:

Posters will be expected to maintain basic courtesy toward the opinions of others. Please avoid flame wars or anything you KNOW will cause others to flame (aka "flame bait").

Well, gentlemen, I see this discussion is moving toward the playground with the other twelve year olds.

Discuss like rational adults or can it.

kbat2012 said Congratulations to Rays.
To be honest, I used to be a Red Sox fan. But ever since the day they traded Manny, I became a Red Sox “hater”. I can’t believe after just coming out off the 100 year curse of trading Babe the Bambinos, the Red Sox started another 100 year curse by trading Manny to LA. Who ever did this will be punished for the next 99 years. It’s pure stupid. I believe what ever Manny did in Boston were forgivable. They will regret this forever. Mark my words here.
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Most reasonable people would admit that the "Manny factor" played a large role in the outcome of the ALCS. The BOSOX had to compenssate for that factor in many ways it was the "elephant" in-the-room for the BOSOX...in that everyone was waiting to see whether the BOSOX could pull-the-trigger without the high-explosive ammo the the "Manny Factor" use to give the BOSOX lineup.

It gave the RAYS all the comfort they needed to ignore the BOSOX lineup without that kind of power gone.

Noone will ever accuse the BOSOX management of being the brightest bulb when it comes to which players to keep and which ones to get rid of.
JMO

Is this some kind of alternative universe? Getting rid of Nomar. Right move. Not signing Pedro. Right move. Not signing Damon for huge dollars. Right move.

About the only bad move I can think of is letting Kevin Millar go.

So what exactly are you talking about, BBkaze?

Obviously any team would want Manny the way he played for the Dodgers. But it was obvious that he had no intention of doing that for the Red Sox. The Boras explanation is the only one that makes sense.

quote:

Noone will ever accuse the BOSOX management of being the brightest bulb when it comes to which players to keep and which ones to get rid of.

If we do not mention the Manny situation, the Red Sox have by far made the wisest decisions on who to keep and who to let go of any MLB Club over the past several years. They didn't really have a choice with Manny. Manny made that choice for them!

The 2004 Championship team had these players on their roster.
Bronson Arroyo
Mark Bellhorn
Orlando Cabrera
Johnny Damon
Alan Embree
Keith Foulke
Gabe Kapler
Derek Lowe
Pedro Martínez
Doug Mientkiewicz
Kevin Millar
Doug Mirabelli
Bill Mueller
Trot Nixon
David Ortiz
Manny Ramirez
Pokey Reese
Curt Schilling
Mike Timlin
Jason Varitek
Tim Wakefield

Just three years later the Red Sox Championship team had this roster. Those in bold they kept!
Josh Beckett
Alex Cora
Coco Crisp
Manny Delcarmen
J.D. Drew
Jacoby Ellsbury
Eric Gagne
Eric Hinske
Bobby Kielty
Jon Lester
Javier Lopez
Mike Lowell
Julio Lugo
Daisuke Matsuzaka
Hideki Okajima
David Ortiz
Jonathan Papelbon
Dustin Pedroia
Manny Ramirez
Curt Schilling
Mike Timlin
Jason Varitek
Kevin Youkilis

This year they lost game 7 or they would be back in the World Series again!

Looks to me like they know what they're doing over there. They got rid of some astronomical salaries to lots of players who are not in any World Series with their new teams. Seems like they got rid of the right guys and kept the right guys in most cases.

The only argument that makes any sense from bbkaze and kbat's perspective is the Red Sox decision to release Pena and Hinske. Hard to see the Rays in the playoffs without those two.

quote:

It gave the RAYS all the comfort they needed to ignore the BOSOX lineup without that kind of power gone.

Noone will ever accuse the BOSOX management of being the brightest bulb when it comes to which players to keep and which ones to get rid of.

That BOSOX lineup that could be ignored just took the team who finished with a better record than to the 7th game of the ALCS. You don't get to the 7th game of any LCS with a shabby lineup.

If they are not the brightest then how do you explain the fact they have went deep into the playoffs almost every year of this new century. Like PGStaff pointed out the roster was hugely different than the one who won the championship a few years later. You don't sustain that kind of excellence by pulling names out of a hat.

Any team would be thankful to have Manny but after a few years I am sure they would be thankful to be rid of him.

You think him hitting the traveling secretary was overrated then remember the guy from the Astros who did the same thing? He got released. Now in all honesty that would be a bad move on the Red Sox part to just release Manny because you have to get something of value for him. It's not hard for management and media to "turn" on him when he acts like a donkey rear.

Besides the trade worked out for the best because the Sox got farther in the playoffs (7th game versus getting beat in 5 as the Dodgers). Manny had better numbers but Bay was the better teammate.

quote:

Originally posted by BBkaze:
Noone will ever accuse the BOSOX management of being the brightest bulb when it comes to which players to keep and which ones to get rid of.
JMO

Given the Sox track record over the past few years and a strong farm system, this is either a comment of complete ignorance or an attempt to create a flame war on the board.

quote:

Originally posted by Holden Caulfield:
The only argument that makes any sense from bbkaze and kbat's perspective is the Red Sox decision to release Pena and Hinske. Hard to see the Rays in the playoffs without those two.

The Sox didn't have a place for them. Who was Pena going to replace? Ortiz or Youkilis? Hinske was a nice role player with the Sox. It's not like he became a stud when he left. He's a nice role player.

I don't know, maybe kbat is on to something. Are the Mariners cursed for not dishing out 253 million?

just a moment of reality.


while most of us are struggling financialy and the country is in the midst of a recesion. manny felt he couldn't get by with only 20 mil for the next few years. i hope he catches on some place warm, so he won't get the oil bill i just got.

.

Don't worry about Manny and oil 20dad...



...here he comes now flying back to his yacht!

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

Originally posted by Holden Caulfield:
The only argument that makes any sense from bbkaze and kbat's perspective is the Red Sox decision to release Pena and Hinske. Hard to see the Rays in the playoffs without those two.

The Sox didn't have a place for them. Who was Pena going to replace? Ortiz or Youkilis? Hinske was a nice role player with the Sox. It's not like he became a stud when he left. He's a nice role player.

I wasn't saying that I agree with this argument, only that it is about the only thing they could have written that would have made the least bit of sense. You should have added that neither player performed well with the Red Sox.

Boston would've won if Manny wasn't traded. There's no denying that and Red Sox fans know it. Those couple of clutch hits that they didn't get were the direct result of Manny being gone.

Nobody in baseball can do what Manny can with the bat and Manny can do it by being a goofball on the field. He just rolls along like a happy fool without a care in the world. It's obvious nothing fazes him because of that. He's exactly what the Yankees need in their lineup. Somebody in the middle of the order that can get a huge hit and protect the fragile Choke-Rod.

Manny is a Ricky Henderson type contractual player. Sign him for one or two years and get his production but then get him out before he becomes a cancer on your team.

I honestly don't remember but how was things when he left Cleveland? I was thinking he had some trouble there too but I could be mistaken.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
Manny is a Ricky Henderson type contractual player.

Time for a funny story?

LaRussa was at West Point last month talking to the baseball team and told a story about when he was managing the A's and they got Ricky Henderson back.

Ricky came into LaRussa's office and said,

"Coach, glad to be here, I just wanted to come in and get a quick rundown of the signs"

So LaRussa goes through bunt, hit and run, take off signs, everything but base stealing.

Ricky, "Coach, what about the steal sign?"

LR, "Ricky, your the best base stealer ever, you just go ahead and steal any time you want"

Ricky, "Coach, I want to be a team guy, show me the signs"

After some debate, LaRussa grudgingly shows Ricky the steal signs.

1st time Ricky gets on base, LHP on the mound with a really good move, and LaRussa doesn't want to get Ricky picked off, so he takes off all signs.

1st pitch, Ricky steals second. LaRussa looks at his asst. coach, "Did I give the wrong sign?"

Asst, "I don't think so"

Next pitch, LaRussa takes off all signs, Henderson steals third. LaRussa starts swearing in the dugout, "what the **** does he think he's doing? I went through all the *** signs with him this *** morning."

Sac fly, Ricky scores, comes in the dugout, and LaRussa confronts him. "Ricky, what the **** were you doing?"

Ricky, "Coach, you gave the take off sign, so I took off"

quote:

Originally posted by zombywoof:
Boston would've won if Manny wasn't traded. There's no denying that and Red Sox fans know it. Those couple of clutch hits that they didn't get were the direct result of Manny being gone.

Nobody in baseball can do what Manny can with the bat and Manny can do it by being a goofball on the field. He just rolls along like a happy fool without a care in the world. It's obvious nothing fazes him because of that. He's exactly what the Yankees need in their lineup. Somebody in the middle of the order that can get a huge hit and protect the fragile Choke-Rod.

If Manny wasn't traded he would have sat out the remainder of the season with fake injuries. He did it a few years ago. What is it they say about "fool me twice?"

Why can't some people just realize that the TEAM , MANAGER and entire front office were just plain sick and tired of dealing with this guy?

Manny is about Manny. And he wants everything and everyone around him to be about Manny. If you dont play his games and kiss his arse then he acts like a child.

It has nothing to do with what he can do in the batters box. The guy is a ridiculous talent at the plate. This is not the end of this story but only another chapter. Regardless of where he ends up next year if he stays there long enough he will write another chapter in this book with the same ending.

Its that simple.

Curse? Yeah its a curse. Just ask the Cowboys before thats all played out.

He is a strange guy who can mash.

Ever notice, just as an athletes skills start to diminish, how the previously haughty and arrogant, seemingly become contrite and humble as they realize the legacy they've left behind and strive to change it?

I wonder if Manny will?

I carry my lunch to work.

But, and after many years of living to eat,
I messed that up. I should have remembered that
as "eat to live".

Simply stated
..Any manager who can't get along with a .400 hitter is crazy.

I would think this also includes:
- a .325 hitter?
- a 50 bombs/100 rbi a year guy?
- a 35-36 starts guy?

I just can't readily recall if it was Connie Mack, or Joe McCarthy who said it first? (I think it's Joe!)

The negative things being said about Manny, are about the same cra^ that was said about (pick em)
- R. Jackson
- Williams
- Mantle
- Piersal
- Fox
- J. Jackson
- Cobb
- many others
(don't need to list pitchers)

(And yes, my fav growing up was Stan the Man, and no has ever said a negative thing about Musial)

Regards


postscript: And yes, Joe Torre and the Dodger Blue Brass initiated contract talks 'to get things straight' wth Manny, eons ago! Manny did cut his hair? Yes. Manny looks so good in Dodger Blue, doesn't he? Expect a newer 'I am so there' commercial with Torre and Manny.......soon