The New Normal College Career Path?

All those transfers must make it difficult to graduate!

@RHP_Parent posted:

All those transfers must make it difficult to graduate!

Without knowing, I would guess that he's probably a semester behind in credits because of the transfers and losing credits. Maybe even a year behind?

That said, I have a friend whose son is a 2020 and he's not an athlete. And, he's been at the same 4-year school the entire time and he still hasn't graduated because he's having "too much fun" and he's changed his major late in the game. So, it's not that unique for kids not to graduate in 4 years, baseball player or not.

In the case of the kid we know, he's actually a smart kid. So, maybe he's loading up with summer and winter classes to catch up? I really don't know. But, it wouldn't shock me if his goal was to get drafted and he'll worry about the degree later? He's really that kind of athlete and it wouldn't surprise me if it happened.

Anyway, my son has been one of those transfers kids too. Add missing a season for an injury and he's not essentially "reclassified" at the college level. He's now entered his 3rd year of attending colleges and considered a sophomore. (Really no different than a redshirt situation. He's not technically a redshirt because he missed a Juco D3 season with the injury and they don't give redshirts.)

(This is ironic to me because, when he was in Middle School, so many that we know reclassified by repeating the 8th grade. And, we said there's no way in hell we would do it. And, now, here we are anyway.)

Luckily, he went from a 4-year to a Juco after a semester so the cost of the school and having to catch up has been cheaper. But, he definitely basically punted a semester because only one class from the 4-year semester was transferred when he switched to Juco and the other credits were lost.

@Francis7

FYI

Transfer rules are different for all divisions. You stated that this player has already transfered 3 times D1 to D1.

Before this season D1 athletes had transfer limits for eligible athletes as well as having enough credits to transfer.

Here is the time line.

2018 Introduction to transfer portal

2020 NCAA grants extra year of eligibility to spring sports whose season cut short by covid.

2021 Immediate eligibility for 1 time transfer for all sports.

2022 Flexibility and extension of eligibility adjustment.

2024 Elimination of transfer limits for eligible athletes.

@RHP_Parent posted:

All those transfers must make it difficult to graduate!

Kind of sounds like graduation is an afterthought in this case.

If this is the new normal for most, we need more abnormal.

JMO.

@fenwaysouth posted:

Kind of sounds like graduation is an afterthought in this case.

If this is the new normal for most, we need more abnormal.

JMO.

@fenwaysouth

Well said!

Had my kids talked about transferring twice for baseball/softball I would have told them it's time to move on and focus on the next forty years.

My daughter knew were she stood. Team USA wasn't even a dream. My son did by what everyone draft eligible should do. Ask the coach about discussions with scouts.

@RJM posted:

Had my kids talked about transferring twice for baseball/softball I would have told them it's time to move on and focus on the next forty years.

My daughter knew were she stood. Team USA wasn't even a dream. My son did by what everyone draft eligible should do. Ask the coach about discussions with scouts.

If the education is equal or better, and the baseball opportunity is way better, I have no problem with kids moving. For most kids, it's the last 4 years of playing the sports that they've dedicated their life towards and made countless sacrifices for, etc. Might as well have the last 4 years be positive and not misery, again, ONLY IF THE EDUCATION PART IS EQUAL OR BETTER ON THE SWITCH.

Let's not forget that, in general, many (if not more than less) kids switch schools who are not athletes and nobody bats an eye.  It happens for several legitimate reasons that have nothing to do with sports.

Normal is in the eye of the beholder.   As a financially contributing parent, I have no problem with my kid changing from one school to another for the right reason.   Sure, I've heard all kinds of reasons for changing schools (girlfriend, anxiety, family considerations, job to support education, etc...)  But once you're beyond changing college more than once that indicates to me that maybe you don't have a clear plan or priority....that you are reacting to what is happening around you and it is out of your control.  Since I'm paying at least part of the college bill, I'm going to weigh-in with my kid.  I live in reality.

While we're talking about reality, l noticed the words "countless sacrifices" used by @Francis7 above.  This phrase is key because there are many one-way sacrifices that young men are putting into college baseball everyday.   College baseball sacrifices nothing for its players.   There is no reciprocity.   College baseball gives you an opportunity, but never sacrifices anything.   Recently, the NCAA has done a great disservice to young men and women by allowing its student athletes to become highly transactional.  The NCAA has  sacrificed the student for the sake of the athlete.  This is not normal, and needs to be remedied.   

As always, JMO. 

My oldest was lucky. When he transferred after his soph year all his credits transferred including some college credits he had while in HS (not AP). He was able to graduate in time.

Prior to my youngest getting injured (UCL surgery) he was starting to talk about possibly transferring while having a good spring. I told him if he didn't transfer after soph year, he wasn't transferring because it wouldn't be possible to transfer after junior year and graduate in 4 years.

I know many if not most college students change their initial declared majors (around 60%), but if your talking lateral (4 year to 4 year) or drop down (4 year to 2 year) transfers I believe it’s less than 5%. With the transfer portal, I’m certain that college athletes are a disproportionate ratio of that 5%... In other words, I don’t think the data supports many or most 4-year college students transferring laterally when attending college in contiguous years.

I’ve known a few people that have chosen wanderlust, skiing, surfing and sometimes a combination of those things above a formal education and seem very fulfilled by their experiences and life choices. I feel baseball also has this draw, where some will forgo what’s likely the best choice for the future to keep doing what they love.

As parents, I believe our job is to support their choices but also ensure they’re informed and being truthful to themselves regarding opportunities outcomes.

Francis;

You did not mention the word "preparation" in your summary.

Question: how can the player prepare his baseball & educational skills for his next school?

Improve "reflex action" and "foot speed" should be #1.  Knowledge of the game #2. Goals and objectives #3. Before he reports to the new team in Fall, play on the Strongest Summer team possible.

Bob

@Francis7 posted:

If the education is equal or better, and the baseball opportunity is way better, I have no problem with kids moving. For most kids, it's the last 4 years of playing the sports that they've dedicated their life towards and made countless sacrifices for, etc. Might as well have the last 4 years be positive and not misery, again, ONLY IF THE EDUCATION PART IS EQUAL OR BETTER ON THE SWITCH.

Let's not forget that, in general, many (if not more than less) kids switch schools who are not athletes and nobody bats an eye.  It happens for several legitimate reasons that have nothing to do with sports.

I guess it's a matter of where you place education in the equation. My son was a fifth generation college baseball player on my side and third generation on his mother's side. The only transfer was my father transferring from a Big Ten for football to a family legacy HA for baseball after an injury. He thought he was going to play pro football.

I told my kids the decision on college was 70/30 education. My daughter was a fourth outfielder for four years. She played a reasonable amount. She could have transferred and been a starter. But her college was ranked #1 in the country at the time in her major.

My son started from mid season freshman year. He never said let's see how freshman year goes when he was on the bench the first half of the season. He only told me he felt he was better than a couple of players on the field and needed the opportunity to prove it.

Coming in injured freshman year he immediately built a five to play four plan leaving in the draft with his degree or in five years with an MBA. When the coach told him he was projected in rounds 27-32 he stayed to play.

Fenway ... Do you remember when college football couldn't have a championship game due to finals in December or January? Now there's a twelve team playoff!

The genie isn't going back in the bottle.

@JucoDad posted:

As parents, I believe our job is to support their choices but also ensure they’re informed and being truthful to themselves regarding opportunities outcomes.

So son had been out of affiliated ball for almost 3 years. He insisted that he didn't have to return to finish his degree to get a good job. No way, we said, he was going to finish what he started. We explained in simple terms what it might mean later on. Plus he would lose his mlb scholarship $$. And it was a lot to lose.

Sure enough, 9 years later he would not be where he is today if we had let him follow his plan.

I can appreciate everyone's story from their past and thank them for sharing. But, it's really been a different world in college baseball lately - especially since the pandemic. I think you have to look at what kids are doing now relative to the current landscape and not compare it to how things were 10, 20 or 30 years ago.

“History repeats itself “

Bob

@Francis7 posted:

I can appreciate everyone's story from their past and thank them for sharing. But, it's really been a different world in college baseball lately - especially since the pandemic. I think you have to look at what kids are doing now relative to the current landscape and not compare it to how things were 10, 20 or 30 years ago.

I DO know about the current landscape. And most parents here do as well.

Did you know that there are many programs in the country where they play baseball 5 days a week?  And forget about the grind during college baseball in May/June. It's exhausting.

Then players head out for summerball where they play games almost every night.

Serious players don't hang out in a  room in a house somewhere. Many are out there working their butts off with their teammates in the gym, because they realistically know that will make them better athletes.

My reply is in response about helping our children make the right decisions. I mean tell me, what parent allows their student athlete to transfer every year? Seriously now.

I agree with many that have mentioned about the importance of education over anything else because IMO, in reality, baseball more than likely will not be what pays your bills after  graduation.

JMO

which is more overrated the school you get a degree from or the school you play college baseball at? In my experience both have limited value over another in similar categories.

The real wealth guys that I know knocked it out of the park with their business practices, the real talented players in pro ball were built over years via many different places. 2 weeks ago I was on a G5 with a guy who got rejected from every top school he applied at, it was very nice that gulfstream wasn't worried about his college resume.

@old_school posted:

which is more overrated the school you get a degree from or the school you play college baseball at? In my experience both have limited value over another in similar categories.

The real wealth guys that I know knocked it out of the park with their business practices, the real talented players in pro ball were built over years via many different places. 2 weeks ago I was on a G5 with a guy who got rejected from every top school he applied at, it was very nice that gulfstream wasn't worried about his college resume.

There’s a saying the PBKs become university professors. The B students become the multi millionaires and billionaires.

The quality of the university and first job opens doors. But you have to successfully walk through them. It’s also possible to go to a lesser university and first job and kick down the doors.

But I don’t know anyone with a degree from an Ivy who isn’t very successful. To  point out any one story of success is anecdotal. A friend of mine went to college in ski country. He flunked out of college from missing too many classes either stoned or on the slopes. He ended up on the ground floor of the snowboard industry. A quality education still has better odds.

My son went to a Power 5, D1 school. He pitched pretty frequently pre-COVID, less so post COVID. They helped him focus on academics as well as baseball. He graduated after three years, then enrolled in a teacher prep program so he could use up his last two years of eligibility. He got drafted after one and is playing minor league ball. All that is great.

I would argue he got two things from his college experience — they connected him with the Northwoods League and the MLB Draft league, where he got more opportunities to start and show what he could do than he did at his college team (as I write that it makes me think of all the people on here who cite the importance of travel ball for players who are trying to get recruited) and he got his degree. Whatever happens with playing baseball, he is setting himself up for a career in some aspect of a game he loves.

@Iowamom23 posted:

I would argue he got two things from his college experience — they connected him with the Northwoods League and the MLB Draft league, where he got more opportunities to start and show what he could do than he did at his college team (as I write that it makes me think of all the people on here who cite the importance of travel ball for players who are trying to get recruited) and he got his degree. Whatever happens with playing baseball, he is setting himself up for a career in some aspect of a game he loves.

No one can understand the journey unless they have taken it.

Baseball is one of those businesses where it's not necessarily what you know but who you know.

Sons former college teammate just became the pitching coach for the Miami Marlins. It's taken awhile to get there, but each stop along the way got him to where he is today. I think Driveline played a huge part in the process.

That's why college decisions are important. Not necessarily for a baseball career but in any career.

JMO

This is becoming a more "normal" route...but every case is unique.

Son has been to 4 schools and is playing his last season this year (his 6th year).
Graduated easily on time from the 3rd school.
Will graduate easily "on time" from his current school with a MBA from the higher academic type school.
All the transfers were baseball related/Late bloomer stuff/ not going where loved/some bad advice..etc..
The road less traveled has become more traveled lately.

as far as the value of degree question...?
results will vary.
Depends on the person and their dreams/goals/personal makeup..
While my 3 kids(and wife) did/will get degree(s) .
For myself- it would of been a total waste - which I realized when I was about 10 yrs old. (B student type stuff)

@Francis7 posted:

We know a kid. Highly touted in HS. There was some talk of him getting drafted.

He committed early to a Top 100 D1. And, that's where he went Freshman year. And, he played some but not very often.

Sophomore season he transfers to a Top 200 D1 and plays a lot there and did pretty well.

After the season, he announced that he was transferring to a new school for his Junior season. It was a Top 50 D1 program.

Something must have happened because plans changed and he's now at a different school, a Top 100 D1 school for his Junior season.

He's a really good kid and comes from a great family. And, he's a gifted baseball player.

As far as changing schools so often, while some people might question it, I feel like this is just the new normal these days. He's not the only kid that we know that's changed schools.

And, I want to say that people these days should almost expect that there's a greater than 50% chance that their college baseball player is not going to be at the same school for all four years, especially if he's going D1 or D2.

Or, is this not the new normal?

@fishnsail - FWIW, my son is at his 3rd school and now entering his "sophomore" baseball season.

Two schools the first year, switched between semesters. Ended up with a medical redshirt as a freshman and then switched schools to play his "freshman" season as a baseball player.

Was it as planned? No. In retrospect was it the right move? 100% yes for every possible reason, 360 degrees.

It's interesting how plans get tossed and it's the best thing that could have happened.