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The Robert Stock Experiment

T tbirds10+ posts
The Robert Stock Experiment has progressed to its second year in college and to date it has had mixed results.

Last year Stock wound up hitting .253 on the year after splitting time at catcher. He fluctuated from being the teams #3 hole hitter to being pinch hit for in the later innings. On the mound he had 14 appearances and ended with a 4.55 ERA.

After a lackluster spring he headed to the Cape where he proceeded to start at catcher for the All Star game, yet ended up with a .228 batting average and a 7.88 ERA in 8 innings pitched. Despite this, he ended up as Baseball America's #5 prospect in the cape league.

As for this season, he has started every game behind the dish, is batting .300, and has thrown 3 scoreless innings and struck out 7 in the process. Nice stats, no doubt, but for someone slated to be a 1st rounder in last years draft, they are certainly nothing to brag about.

Anyway, I have seen some videos, linked at the bottom, and I can see why he is a legitimate prospect, but I have no idea how this "experiment" is going to wind up. The talent is there, its obvious, but so far it hasn't been pieced together. What's going to happen to this young man, Baseball American's former Player of the Year?

Throwing a runner out
Getting a hit
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FutureBack.MomFutureBack.Mom1,000+ posts
I suspect that Robert's freshman numbers are related to his youth ... including his summer in the Cape. Here is a young man who is significantly younger than most of his teammates in college and in summer ball ... quite an adjustment, including the number of games played in a season. It is a big jump from high school.

Had Robert been drafted and signed out of high school, after completing his senior season, he would have been placed with other young rookie players in a league where the games are not usually played as intensively as at a D1 competitive program and where he would have received (lots of) attention to his development.

Hopefully he will continue to improve each season and that he will be the adult player that many have come to expect of a young man with all the talent he showed at an early age.
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
You have to tip your hat to the young man. He has accomplished more than any other player at his age. Will he be another first round pick when the time comes? He probably will ---- but even if he isn’t that in no way would make his past accomplishment less amazing. Whenever we read articles where writers project his future, we need to realize the unknown in projecting any player’s future. Robert’s future is fine. He should not read ---- or set his goals ------- or be held to a standard established by a Baseball America article where the writer’s main goal is to sell more paper.
Fungo
Midlo DadMidlo Dad10,000+ posts
To me this decision made a whole lot of sense once I realized exactly what was in front of the Stock family.

First of all, Robert was young for his grade. Had he gone the normal course, he would not have turned 18 until well into his freshman year.

Secondly, he had a chance to start college a year early, i.e., skip his senior year of HS.

Personally I would have a difficult time sending my kid into the pro life at age 17. That was one option the Stocks looked at and ultimately chose not to take.

The other option was to see HS through, then go to college for 3/4 years and go pro at age 20 or 21.

The way they did it, he can get 3/4 years of college done and go pro at age 19 or 20. And a USC degree ain't too shabby, either.

Seems to me this kid got the best of both worlds by excelling both on the field and in the classroom. More power to him.
HeyBatterHeyBatter1,000+ posts
Well, maybe I'm the only one, and I won't say this is/was a mistake but finishing in the normal course of events with high school is not such a bad thing and then going on to college, don't see how that would have hurt him.

He is several years younger than his college peers not just in terms of baseball, but also in academics and in social circumstances.

He has put all his proverbial eggs in this one basket and I really don't see the point of how much was gained.

Also, perhaps, USC wasn't the best choice. I'm an SC alum and a big fan of the program. They are in a big transition period, haven't been to the tournament in a while, people are already screaming for the coach to be fired and they are about a .500 team which is not well received by the Trojan faithful. With all this, perhaps a bit too much has been expected of Stock, putting aside the issues of his age.

College and those years and the maturing process are tough enough. Never have really understood this one at all.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
I don't understand why everyone picks apart this decision. Another webster told me he and his folks have been blasted on another site.

I think it was very wise, the draft is a c*ap shoot, he would have been drafted, no one knows where, being so young, all organizations do things differently. He could have spent a year in rookie, a year in low A, then another year in High A. That's not much fun, IMO, better to get your experience and at bats in college AND your education at the same time.

I think the naysayers (not here)about this young man have an issue, it's called jealousy.
M MTS100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Bum:
I thought he should have definitely gone pro, but Robert and his family obviously thought differently. I admire his talent and courage to take a path not so often chosen.. I suspect Robert Stock will be just fine.


I think he made a good decision to leave Agoura HS one year early. He would have been Agoura's lone ace on a weaker team. He would have been over worked and, in all likelihood, would have injured himself.
Last edited by MTS
Rob KremerRob Kremer1,000+ posts
I don't know how any of us can second guess what the Stocks decided. We don't really know all the elements of the decision.

I've seen Robert play, and it is obvious he is a special talent. From everything I have heard and read, he is a terrific young man and his parents are terrific people. I admire the decision to go to college and pass up for now what would probably have been significant signing money.
MN-MomMN-MomHSBaseballWeb Owner
tbirds,

To be honest, you do seem to be trying to find the negatives. Lackluster? In Robert's freshman year, he was a 17-yr-old HS boy competing against players much older than himself at the DI level. Now this year, when he is still only the age of the average true freshman, "As for this season, he has started every game behind the dish, is batting .300, and has thrown 3 scoreless innings and struck out 7 in the process."

He is a nice young man from a fine family, who seems to have passed up a lot of money to go and play college baseball first. I'll put my money on Robert having a successful college baseball career, and going on to have some success in pro ball. I hope he makes it to MLB, though I'm not qualified to predict that.

Julie
Last edited by MN-Mom
Midlo DadMidlo Dad10,000+ posts
MN-Mom, actually he is currently the age of the average high school senior! So to me, what he's accomplished so far is extraordinary.

For anyone to call his performance to date "lackluster" shows either some axe to grind or complete ignorance of the situation. How many high school juniors could have started in the PAC 10 and hit .250? Not many. Maybe just this one.

I don't know if he would have been abused as a pitcher at Agoura, but from what I've read it does appear that he sees himself in the Wieters mold -- catcher/hitter first, pitcher second. Moving on to USC allowed him to focus more on the catching/hitting development. Had he stayed in HS, he most certainly would've been more prominent as a pitcher. And though Wieters pulled off pitching while also catching, he was a closer. It's tough to excel as a catcher when your arm is dead tired from pitching 5-7 innings a day or two earlier.

Here's a kid who, two years younger than the average freshman, started and held his own against top college competition. Now, one year younger than the average freshman, he's showing tremendous progress. Who knows how this year will end up, or how much progress he'll show through the end of the 2009 season. But if he ended up following in Wieters' $6 million footsteps, it wouldn't surprise me.

And BTW, this kid has already proved he can hit with wood. I watched the AFLAC game on TV in 2006, and his bomb to just left of center (he bats lefty) proved that.
M MTS100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
MN-Mom, actually he is currently the age of the average high school senior! So to me, what he's accomplished so far is extraordinary.

For anyone to call his performance to date "lackluster" shows either some axe to grind or complete ignorance of the situation. How many high school juniors could have started in the PAC 10 and hit .250? Not many. Maybe just this one.

I don't know if he would have been abused as a pitcher at Agoura, but from what I've read it does appear that he sees himself in the Wieters mold -- catcher/hitter first, pitcher second. Moving on to USC allowed him to focus more on the catching/hitting development. Had he stayed in HS, he most certainly would've been more prominent as a pitcher. And though Wieters pulled off pitching while also catching, he was a closer. It's tough to excel as a catcher when your arm is dead tired from pitching 5-7 innings a day or two earlier.

Here's a kid who, two years younger than the average freshman, started and held his own against top college competition. Now, one year younger than the average freshman, he's showing tremendous progress. Who knows how this year will end up, or how much progress he'll show through the end of the 2009 season. But if he ended up following in Wieters' $6 million footsteps, it wouldn't surprise me.

And BTW, this kid has already proved he can hit with wood. I watched the AFLAC game on TV in 2006, and his bomb to just left of center (he bats lefty) proved that.


I approve this post
BeezerBeezer1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by tbirds:
Last year Stock wound up hitting .253 on the year after splitting time at catcher. He fluctuated from being the teams #3 hole hitter to being pinch hit for in the later innings. On the mound he had 14 appearances and ended with a 4.55 ERA.


Not to pick on you but are there any HS juniors you know of that could do better? That's essentially (age-wise) what he was last year.

To look at it another way, next year when he is a Junior, he will be the same age as many of the incomming Freshman. Yeah, I think he's done just fine.
Last edited by Beezer
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
I watched a few low A minor league games where a prospect out of HS was clearly overmatched. He also clearly had a lot of talent. The next season he was still in the same league and he did a whole lot better. I think Robert went into a similar situation and has done as well as can be expected.

My guess is that the Stocks have found the transition from HS ball in a strong league to major D1 ball to be a bit tougher than expected, but Robert seems to have handled it quite well and I would expect him to continue to improve as he gets more experience under his belt.

He seems to be fairly physically mature despite his youth, and he's fairly mature for his age academically and socially so I wouldn't expect that to be a major factor. What he lacks is experience and he's getting it. I think the Stocks made a wise choice and wish Robert the best of luck in college and in next year's draft at the grand old age of 19, the same as some highly touted high school seniors.
Last edited by CADad
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
tburds

Answer the question before you want to rail on me---do you think it is smart?

I am not talking about the previous history--I am talking of this one instance---this could be the instance that triggers the problem--maybe not--but it sure ain't helping

Answer the question--do you think it is smart?
Last edited by TRhit
N ncball100+ posts
TRhit- I agree with you on this one. It would have been preferable if he DH'ed the decond game or came in halfway. That's alot of wear and tear. You would NEVER see a pro catcher catch the second game.

Secondly, this whole age thing regarding Stock being so young has got to go. The kid probably has an August or September birthday like a bunch of kids. He was not playing D1 as the equivalent of a HS junior.

The reality is that he did this to better his future professional career (and it makes sense). High school baseball, even in southern california is just not very challenging for kids who play at a high level in the summer. He was a dime a dozen as a pitcher and had some arm challenges (why bother). His receiving skills were not very good to be brutally honest. He had a strong arm behind the dish but his footwork was poor. He was younger for his grade and going off to play rookie ball at 17 with a bunch of kids who didn't speak his language would have been an absolute culture shock.

The solution- Go play college baseball for three years at USC. He gets to work with an ex big-league catcher at getting better, enjoys the college life, and comes out bigger, stronger, and more prepared for the rigors of pro baseball. Good choice.
BeezerBeezer1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by ncball:
Secondly, this whole age thing regarding Stock being so young has got to go. The kid probably has an August or September birthday like a bunch of kids. He was not playing D1 as the equivalent of a HS junior.


What do you mean "it's got to go"??? It is what it is, he was young for his class to begin with, not to mention he left early. I'm not sure why you feel that has no merit???

Kids with August/September birthdays are always the youngest in thier class. I know, I was one!!! Typically kids graduate when they're 18, not 17. Hence, a "typical" junior is 17. And yes, there are those exceptions.

http://usctrojans.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/mtt/stock_robert00.html

"...birthdate is Nov. 21, 1989"

Just as a side note, he's only 3 years older than my 15u HS Freshman.
Last edited by Beezer
Midlo DadMidlo Dad10,000+ posts
I would like to take this opportunity to say that I TOTALLY AGREE WITH TRHIT!!!!

Other comments on above posts:

Stock is exactly 2 months, 17 days older than my son who is currently a high school senior. Without question he is two years ahead in the pipeline. There are seniors on our HS baseball team who are older than Stock.

Stock was a "dime a dozen" as a pitcher? I beg to differ. The kid could run it up to 95 when he was 16. He had nasty breaking stuff even then, and was the #1 arm on the Junior National Team. Gimme a break!

I did note in the AFLAC game that he muffed a few balls that I would normally expect a top flight catcher to handle easily. I later heard he was using a brand new mitt. Not sure why, but there it is FWIW.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
He was a dime a dozen as a pitcher
Give me a break! He's been a BA player of the year. He threw mid 90's in high school. He succeeded on Team USA. He probably would have gone in the first ten picks in the draft had he stayed for senior year of high school. That's hardly "dime a dozen."
B Bear1,000+ posts
OMG

1. Left handed hitting catcher
2. Some serious juice in his bat
3. 17 y/o College Freshman
4. Proven experience swingin the lumber!
5. Might project to be 6'3 210 lbs!
6. This prospect's future is an everyday player,
and probably behind the dish, (then 1b/3b).

Hits like a young Al Kaline, who happened
to by-pass the minor leagues.

Yet reminds me a heckuva lot like
Willam James Surhoff. Who had an unbelievable
college career at UNC.
And a #1 draft pick, and then 19 years in the bigs, (and whose last year of pro ball was 2004).

And I ran into last night at the Terp vs UNC game. Surhoff even knew of the kid.

An 'experiment'? %^T&U*. NO!

A future! YES!

[Yet could fall-back to the bump!]
How about $3.5M signing bonus in 2009!
and if with Bodwen's - could see 40 man roster
in 2010!
T tbirds10+ posts
Do I think it was smart?

By smart you mean what? Was it the best decision for the team, the player, or his baseball career.

Obviously the team was better with him in the lineup.

Secondly, he obviously handled the task extremely well.

However, the question of course is injury. If he is not strong enough (in shape, durable, healthy) to handle the task, then obviously its a bad decision. On the other hand, if he was all those things then it was merely another day in the ballpark. Personally, I have no idea what his workout regime is, I'm sure his coach does however.

My earlier comment was regarding the "scandal" that happened six years ago when he was 12 and threw 2 games in a day as well as caught 2 games. I remember the outcry that TRhit made, and have yet to see it come to fruition.


This is all beyond the point, however, as the initial point of the thread was to wonder how Stock will wind up as a player, using how he has performed so far as indication. After this weekend he is batting .333 through 20 starts (in 20 games) and has thrown 4 scoreless innings and struck out 8.
N ncball100+ posts
Midlo- I am referring to his future as a professional pitcher as dime-a-dozen . He was a max effort guy with an average build in high school. He rarely was 95 and more like 90-92. I saw him play in the USA Baseball JO's against us (2005) and he was 88-90 but straight with an average breaking ball ( good pitcher for a rising junior). He had great power (I loved his swing) but had a tough time with a breaking ball and missed too many pitches. Regarding the new glove thing- I'm sorry but he was not a very good receiver back then. Great arm, bad feet, stiff hands (he's gotten much better).

Beezer- Regarding his birth date, he was going to be a legitimate senior when he jumped to USC. The cut-off in California is up to January. Kids are recruited and drafted by grade, not age. Plenty of others that started college at age 17. He had three years of high school baseball. Sorry if you don't agree or get it.

Bear- He's 18 and a half and listed at a generous 6'1. Where do you get possibly projected at 6'3? The rest of your post is, well, interesting.

This kid has been hyped by people for years since he was 14. Ever heard of Andy Beal? Top player in the country for his age when he was young. He's now an average college guy. Some of the top young players in the country (Baseball America's Players For the Ages as the best resource I know) turn out to be average , good players. I've seen it for years and I don't think it helps these kids to be hyped so early.

Stock is a good talent who made a good decision for himself based on his situation. He was a smart kid who could handle college-work and would be more prepared to play professional baseball with three years of college under his belt. I bet he does just fine at the next level. That said, there will be plenty of players HIS AGE that will be as good or better than him when all is said and done. That's not to detract from his ability- it's just that young players mature and progress at different rates.
B Bear1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
BEAR
Personally I think it is a recipe for arm disater


RIZZI,

Injuries are NOT like the old days. One and done. Today,
GM's are paying these type of athletics big bucks
(i.e. $1.5 M) to sign, even with severe career threatening injuries,
(and go under the knife with the medical staff of the parent clubs).

Remember "Big Rude"? And a Consensus All-American as
a two way player. He threw a zillion more IP's at Wash St Univ, had surgery Jr year in college, is in the College Baseball Hall of Fame in Lubbock, went directly to the big leagues, (may be tied as slowest afoot position player to do that or maybe tied with "Inca" ) and had a terrific 17 years in the bigs before retiring in 2005.

So to answer your question. Doesn't matter.
The kid at USC has a future!

ncball: Are you becoming boring? Try not to get 'old' at ...what age are you...39? Geez, I'm a grandfather, and maybe you should think about getting a tad more enthusiastic about these great amateur players seeking dreams. Heck, Rizzi is so old he sometimes has bird poop on his shoulder from standing around (like Al Kaline in right field), but no one that I know can say Rizzi is boring by any sense of the imagination (not even his bride!) I was with Ryan Braun's Mom two weeks ago. What a happy lady as she was smiling telling war stories about chasing me around the parking lot behind the stadium in Jacksonville. It's very cool just being around happy Mom's. Give it a try.

As a freshman. Stock was 17.......
....Some of the younger HS kids have another growth spurt.

Is your gas tank ...half full?
Last edited by Bear
Infield08Infield081,000+ posts
quote:
Regarding his birth date, he was going to be a legitimate senior when he jumped to USC. The cut-off in California is up to January. Kids are recruited and drafted by grade, not age. Plenty of others that started college at age 17.


With a birthday of Nov. 21, 1989, Stock was actually 16 when he started college. He did not turn 17 until late November of his freshman year at USC.

My son will be 19 when he begins college and several of his friends will be 19 1/2. That is pretty prevalent in this day and age when many parents hold their kids, especially their boys, back to give them an extra year of social and academic maturity.
N ncball100+ posts
Infield08- You left out the part that said he had already played three years of high school baseball. His age was appropriate for his grade. Therefore, he skipped one grade- not two.

BTW- Parents in Texas (and other southern states) hold their kids back for SPORTS and no other reason. Don't lie about that. This is not prevalent throughout the country and it's kind of sad.
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
Everyone likes Robert Stock and is pulling for him. He's a good kid, talented and very intelligent. I understand the concern TR has and hope Robert stays healthy. Robert is one of the most talked about youth and HS players ever. Truth is he is like many other talented kids who have room for improvement.

Something not mentioned here…

USC is one of the best places to go if you are a catcher.

Another very highly regarded HS catcher was Jeff Clement from Iowa. He holds the record for most HRs in high school and was considered a possible early pick out of hs. Problem was that his biggest weakness was receiving and footwork. He also had/has a very strong arm and could throw 90+ on the mound. His receiving ability made him too big of a gamble to draft early out of hs and he slipped down a ways in the draft. So he went to Southern Cal for three years.

After three years at USC he became a better catcher and was drafted early in the first round (3rd pick overall) and signed for 3.5 million or somewhere around there.

I agree with ncball about Robert and would guess that ncball has seen him play much more than most of us on this board.

He had/has a very strong arm and some real good power from the left side, like Clement, but not consistent Jeff Clement type power. His biggest weakness was receiving and quickness (feet) behind the plate, similar to Clement. He is not what you would call extremely athletic, Clement maybe a bit better athlete. He had/has good power, but there were many in his class that had much more “raw” power and others who were better hitting prospects.

IMO, it would have been highly unlikely that Robert would have gone in the first couple rounds out of HS, let alone the top 10 picks of the first round. So I don’t think he turned down millions at all and maybe his parents realized that. Being that Robert was such a high profile player, surely they talked to some honest scouts along the way.

That said, based on what happened to Jeff Clement, I think Robert went to the right college and very well could become an early pick if he progresses as much as Clement did at USC, but at a younger age. I hope he does because he is a great kid.

I have no thoughts regarding how he is being used. Matt Wieters did the same thing at Georgia Tech and it seems everything worked out well in his case. I do think that Robert has a ways to go to reach Matt Wieters ability, even at the same age! I do think that Robert and Jeff Clement are a good comparison, though Jeff quit pitching after HS. No one can deny Robert Stock’s arm strength, it is real. I’m still not convinced he won’t end up being a pitcher in pro ball.

Hope no one takes this as anything negative. I’m a very big Robert Stock fan. It’s just that most people who have bragged him up so much over the years haven’t seen him as much as we have. In fact, I think some who brag him up to legendary status have never actually seen him play at all and are basing everything on what has been written.

Bottom line… Great kid, great makeup, big arm, possible big bat, still has some work to do and he’s in the right place to get that done. I haven’t seen him this year, but would bet he is getting to be a much better receiver. I consider his age as an advantage, but he is much more experienced than most his age. We wouldn’t be talking about him if he wasn’t an outstanding player. There are just many different levels of outstanding as there are levels of maturity.
itsinthegameitsinthegame5,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by PGStaff:


Hope no one takes this as anything negative. I’m a very big Robert Stock fan. It’s just that most people who have bragged him up so much over the years haven’t seen him as much as we have. In fact, I think some who brag him up to legendary status have never actually seen him play at all and are basing everything on what has been written.



Yup!

I wish the bottom feeder journalists would just leave this kid alone and let him play.
T tbirds10+ posts
Going along with what PGStaff said above,

Have you seen this kid catch lately? I've been to a couple USC games this year and its amazing. I was actually there this weekend when they took on Arizona and he was a one man show. Sliding catches in foul territory, fielding bunts not meant to be fielded, as well as throwing baserunners out right and left. I talked to a few scouts that said multiple throws of his were 1.85; they only tried to steal bases a couple times once they realized it was hopeless.

Just like was said above, he was mostly singles and I think one double (only 2 homeruns on the year), but I was more impressed with his defense rather than his offense.

Maybe the question I should have asked in the first place is whether or not he'll be a hitter. His arm and prowess behind the plate were certainly there.
N ncball100+ posts
tbirds- Here's the report I got from a player who played against him this weekend. Great arm, bad receiver, doesn't hit great pitching (as he said, "but who does") but will hit mistakes. He hits in the 8 hole in a very average line-up.

FYI- He threw out two out of four runners for the weekend while the Arizona catcher threw out three out of four. It had nothing to do with Arizona not wanting to run and everything to do with a huge lead in one game and very few baserunners in the other two.

I'm not picking on this kid. I just want to see a little reality out there. BTW- I don't buy the 1.85 in a game. That's a pop time reserved for Pudge and a select few others. A real pop time in the game for big-leaguers is closer to 1.90-1.95.
T tbirds10+ posts
NCBall,

I was just saying what I saw. I guess me and the player from Arizona will have to disagree with regards to "bad receiver". Everyone has their own ideas and sees different things. So far as throwing out 2 of 4 baserunners, we all know that its just as much dependent on who's pitching and who's running. And so much as 1.85 pop time, you're right in that I wasn't doing any "stopwatching", thats merely what I heard from a couple scouts.

And finally from his hitting, thats exactly the question I was posing. He hits in the 8 hole in an average lineup. Although if you wanna talk about great pitching, just look at the roster of Arizona and you'll see it. Stock was 5 for 8 on the weekend and 4 for 11 the weekend before versus #7 Long Beach State (I promise I didn't know this off the top of my head Smile ), the best pitching they've probably faced all year.

Regardless, I know I certainly came away impressed with his defense, if not his bat. We all have our biases, but I'm willing to bet that a player from Arizona who just got shutout 2 games in a row isn't going to have the best feelings towards any member of the opposing team, especially the youngest, most hyped player.

In every post that I make, I do it for the discussion and conversation because I'm interested in these players. By the way, if you wanted to see an array of scouts this early in the year, they were certainly many of them at this series.
Rob KremerRob Kremer1,000+ posts
I took a look at Stock's stats - he is 8 out of 15 in throwing out runners. That's pretty darn good, but clearly they are trying to run on him. Also has three passed balls.

I tend to agree with ncball on the pop time question. I have personally timed at least a dozen MLB catchers in game situations (the magic of DVR) and they are all right around 2.0. Have not seen a 1.9 yet.

Now, I have seen Stock play and I think he is terrific. He's an extraordinary young man and I'll be pleased to see him succeed in the pros.

But I've seen enough hype in my life to recognize it. Keep it real!
N ncball100+ posts
tbirds- Fair enough. The player I spoke to was actually complimentary about the USC pitchers. BTW- Players don't pay attention to hype. They "play the ball". I simply asked him about the other catcher and those were his observations. They were similar to other players who have faced him.

I'm done with this whole subject. All I was trying to do was bring a little reality to alot of hype. I wish no ill will to the kid and hope he is successful down the line.
T tbirds10+ posts
In fact, concerning the hype and acclaim that Stock has accrued throughout his amateur career, I'd say that it is mostly in part to his age rather than his play. The things that he has accomplished or is doing right now are all remarkable for his age, not necessarily for the feat itself.

Talking about a .333 average hitting catcher with a good arm is special but nothing out of the ordinary. What makes it special is that he's 18. I think thats where he "makes his points".

edit: PGStaff, how does age play into his draft status come next June?
Last edited by tbirds
I iheartbb1,000+ posts
I am not so sure we need to get hung up on the age thing. This particular player has been playing baseball since T-ball like most all players. His age in "baseball years" would the same as anyone else who started T-ball at the same time he did, and continued to play into high school. Instead of playing that senior year at his high school, he just "played up" if you will. My boys always played up after about 7th grade - often there was a mix of ages, and by the way age didn't always make a whole lot of difference talent wise - guys either had the tools to play up and were given a chance to earn a position, or they stayed with their cronological age group. Often times the older players (and their parents) got quite PO'd that a younger more talented (and often times more experienced)player pushed their guy out of a spot. I have a feeling with what I have read in this thread alone, that young Mr. Stock has been competing at a very high level all along, therefore my term of "baseball years" could actually calculate him to be the same or older "baseball age" as many of his peers at USC and at many D-1 colleges.

I believe that the Stock family made the best possible decision for their son - it does not matter if we agree with it - it is already done and he is on is way.

Surely most of us can understand that at some point the rapid progression of one's talent comes to a bit of a plateau - a new learning curve if you will - once new mastery is obtained with a smart driven player - his progress may then pick up more momentum again, and this process probably (Hopefully) will continue throught his career - whatever that may be.

I do not know this family, but I do know that Thick Skin 101 is one of the first courses to be taken by the entire family- Good Luck to young Robert and his family.

PS I really don't like the catching/pitching in the same game or DH. I really don't think that it is good for the team either, not to mention the possible overuse. It is like saying "There is no other person on our roster that can close this game for us".

I do understand that demonstrating his strength, concentration, and endurance is valuable with consideration to his draft status - I still think it's not good for the team. JMHO
Last edited by iheartbb
BumBum1,000+ posts
I am no expert but my take on this matter is that Robert's primary skill is his arm. 95. 95. 95. Man, you can't wish that away!

If his catching skills are (or become) plus and his bat stinks, there will still be that arm!

I'm guessing there are a lot of pro teams that are watching and waiting to see how his bat/catching skills line up. But in the meantime, there's always that 95 M.P.H. arm. You can't deny that. So if he's not catching in the pros, he will be closing.
MN-MomMN-MomHSBaseballWeb Owner
quote:
I do not know this family, but I do know that Thick Skin 101 is one of the first courses to be taken by the entire family- Good Luck to young Robert and his family.


iheartbb, I'll second that. Robert's dad used to post on this site fairly regularly (3 to 4 years ago) and I had some PM conversations with him. He seemed like a really nice, caring man with a nice family. Because of Robert's throwing velocity at a young age, they became accustomed to controversy and did indeed develop a thick skin. I think Robert was 14 when he first hit 90 mph, as some people of course proclaimed that his arm would fall off. But he has always thrown a lot, conditioned his body, and he and his dad were working hard back then at studying efficient throwing mechanics. It seems to be working out well in terms of his arm so far.

I appreciate that the somewhat dissenting opinions in this thread have been offered in a civil and respectful way!

And I wish Robert and his family the very best and hope to watch him on my TV screen some day.

Julie
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
I'll agree that Robert is not likely to top 6'1". I haven't seen him since last year but I don't think he's close to 6'3". I also tend to doubt he's got a big future as a pitcher just because the 95 is max effort, but he's a very smart kid and if he ends up going the pitching route he'll learn to make the best use of the tools he does have, which still aren't too shabby. I sure wouldn't mind if mine could hit 95 at max effort. Smile

I'm not savvy enough to judge him as a hitter or catcher so I'll have to go on what others say. All in all, I'll play it safe and agree with PG's analysis.

I think Chad Kreuter being the coach played a big role in their decision and although people's assessment of his current catching abilities may be correct (remember, I'm not smart enough to judge that) I think people may be forgetting just how hard he's willing to work to get better and that is a key ingredient.
CollegeParentNoMoreCollegeParentNoMore1,000+ posts
quote:
PS I really don't like the catching/pitching in the same game or DH. I really don't think that it is good for the team either, not to mention the possible overuse. It is like saying "There is no other person on our roster that can close this game for us".



Perhaps Stock said his arm felt great and asked for the ball from the coach? I am generally not inclined to have a kid do both in the same game but if the kids asks for the ball and you think its a situation where he can suceed and build some confidence, would you say no?

btw, I don't think Chad Krueter (the coach) is the kind of guy that would sacrifice a young kid's arm.
J jbbaseball500+ posts
As I recall, if you enter a 4 year college, you are not eligible until you are a junior (is that academic or years of athletic eligibily, ???) or you turn 21, whichever comes first.......

i.e. Quite a few players are draft eligible after their soph year in college because they have turned 21 already (most recent example I can think of was Bianucci from Auburn last year).

So I would think Stock would be eligible for the 2009 draft, correct????
infielddadinfielddad10,000+ posts
The only time I have seen him play was the 3 game series last Spring at Sunken Diamond at Stanford.
What I saw then, and what I feel in reading through this thread, is something that gets posted on this site all the time, and still seems to be under appreciated.
Whether it be Robert Stock, or most any other very talented high school player, the transition to college baseball is very tough. The transition to DI baseball is even tougher. The transition to playing in arguably, for some, the most difficult conference in DI baseball, makes the transition just that much more challenging.
From the 3 games I watched, I thought he was a terrific player.
As with most, it takes time to adapt your game when the level of play and player is closer to, and in many situations, exceeds current skills of that very talented player. Most very talented players end up making that adjustment. When they do can vary greatly. For me, that was true last Spring.
He is still adjusting to a game that is played every day at very high and intense levels, by many, many players who will be drafted on the first day in June.
Last edited by infielddad
Midlo DadMidlo Dad10,000+ posts

I was watching Quick Pitch this morning, and noticed that Robert Stock was in the highlights for a Padres game.  Discovered that apparently he's been up with them for a while, and I was only now noticing.

It made me think of this very old thread.  I guess it's a case of perseverance, but waiting until age 28 to make it to the bigs was definitely not the original plan.

He gave up catching after a few years with low hitting numbers in the minors for the Cardinals.  It wasn't that long ago that he was struggling at High A and then AA.  I missed him moving to the Padres, but apparently it's at least gotten him an opportunity, and his numbers thus far are pretty solid actually.

Rob KremerRob Kremer1,000+ posts

Wow good for him. I saw him at an underclassman showcase when he was 16. His fastball was 95 , which is why he was rated #1. He was a big strong kid, but it's hard to know who will be able to hit at D1 and then pro ball, so it makes sense that he is pitcher only now.  His average FB this season is 97 and his control looks to be OK. Maybe he'll stick there. Nobody thought it would take him 10 seasons to make the majors. He persevered. Great stuff.

Midlo DadMidlo Dad10,000+ posts

I agree with the sentiment, though obviously not everyone has the genes to get to that level.  Everyone can benefit from hard work to get all they can out of what God gave you, but ... that begs the question of how much God gave you! 

Clearly, had he not had the high velo, teams would've given up on him years ago.  Plenty of guys get released and involuntarily retired well before age 28.  And Stock's numbers in the minors were not always that strong.  But obviously he stuck with it.

I'm reminded of that Jaeger long toss video from 8-9 years ago, where they talk about how to build up arm strength, and they show two college pitchers throwing on a football field, end zone to end zone on the fly.  They refer to the players as "Gerrit and Trevor." 

As in, Cole and Bauer, who were then teammates at UCLA.

Again, two guys who combined their natural gifts with devotion to development, nutrition, conditioning and mechanics.  It takes all of the above to get where those guys are.

Some good luck avoiding the injury bug is also very important.  Those who do advance, those who don't ... don't.

 

Last edited by Midlo Dad
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007

If Stock had listened to the experts he would have been a top of the first round pick with possibly a quick route to the majors. It turned out the experts were right. He’s a pitcher. But Stock was adamant he was a catcher. I was told he wasn’t one of the top five high school catching prospects in CA. 

Last edited by RJM
D Dominik8510,000+ posts
RJM posted:

If Stock had listened to the experts he would have been a a top of the first round pick with possibly a quick route to the majors. It turned out the experts were right. He’s a pitcher. But Stock was adamant he was a catcher. I was told he wasn’t one of the top five high school catching prospects in CA. 

Why do you think he didn't want to pitch? Do you think it was his family who wanted him to be a hitter?

Can't imagine a kid being drafted and not willing to pitch in pro ball.

RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
Dominik85 posted:
RJM posted:

If Stock had listened to the experts he would have been a a top of the first round pick with possibly a quick route to the majors. It turned out the experts were right. He’s a pitcher. But Stock was adamant he was a catcher. I was told he wasn’t one of the top five high school catching prospects in CA. 

Why do you think he didn't want to pitch? Do you think it was his family who wanted him to be a hitter?

Can't imagine a kid being drafted and not willing to pitch in pro ball.

He wanted to be an every day player. 

Here’s how it unfolded to the best of my recollection ...

Stock would have been a top of the first round pick as a pitcher had he stayed in high school for his senior year. He was already dominating as a sixteen year old junior (November birthday).

He graduated early and started college as a seventeen year old. He was a high level honors student in high school. He figured he had three years to prove he was a catcher. He would be draft eligible as a nineteen year old college junior. The plus is he got in three years of college by nineteen. 

He didn’t hit that well in college and pitched in relief until starting some games junior year. The Cardinals drafted him in the second round figuring it wouldn’t take long for him to give up catching. He didn’t progress hitting or pitching. The Cardinals eventually released him. 

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