The web we weave

Rule 605 states it very clear, The coach should of informed the players at the start of the season.
And I don't believe that the scout did not know the rule.
He knows very well what the rule is.

605. PROFESSIONAL TRYOUT
A student shall become ineligible for CIF competition if he/she participates in any tryout for a professional team in any CIF-approved sport
during the high school season of sport. The season of sport for a school is that period of time that elapses between the first interscholastic
contest and the final contest in that particular sport.
NOTE: See Bylaw 1200 for CIF-approved sports. (Revised May 2009 Federated Council)

EH

quote:

Originally posted by theEH:
Rule 605 states it very clear, The coach should of informed the players at the start of the season.
And I don't believe that the scout did not know the rule.
He knows very well what the rule is.

Don’t think for a second this particular guy who has been coaching HSB here in Ca for more than 20 years doesn’t tell his players what the eligibility rules are. I know he does because I’ve heard him do it! The problem is, anyone who expects these kids to remember what they’ve been told is foolish! The 1st time the blood rushes out of their head and into other parts of their body, half of what they remember goes along with it. That’s why these things are the final responsibility of adults!

It really doesn’t make a lot of difference if the scout knew the rule or not. CIF sent a letter to every MLB organization last year when virtually the same thing happened, and they warned every organization what the rules were. If he didn’t already know and the Bluejays didn’t tell him, having been a Mil Player and a scout for more than a couple years in another organization as well, he **** sure should have.

Personally, I’ve sent a letter to the BlueJays Director of Amateur Scouting, and I hope others will as well, and they’ll think long and hard about this guy, if for nothing else than that he’s obviously not a good representative for their organization.

I have a different take on this rule and the situation caused by it.

I think the "no tryout" rule is analogous to the NCAA rule which prohibits players from hiring an agent or having anyone other than a player's guardians be involved in negotiations with professional teams. In both cases, the rule works against the player's interests.

The rules also offend common sense. If a player is good enough to potentially command a million dollar siging bonus, how can it make sense to deny him the knowledge and communication skills of an agent? Similarly, how does it make sense to deny a high school player the opportunity to demonstrate his skills?

Of course, it is an open secret that college players do engage agents, disguised as "advisors", and those advisors do negotiate on behalf of the players.

Similarly, we should expect that high school players who are potential 1-5 round picks will make themselves available to evaluations (the CIF rule doesn't define tryouts, so who knows which activities qualify?) by MLB teams. A player who is thinking ahead isn't going to wait until the high school season is over-- maybe he'll pull a hammy. Better to have some solid evaluations already completed. MLB teams want more evaluation that can be accomplished at games or practices, and most players will accomodate that need.

I don't know anything about this situation beyond the newspaper articles. But I suspect that there are multiple players in this general area who have participated in some sort of "tryout". They've just done a better job of avoiding attention,

3FG,

I have nothing at all against a player doing whatever he can to make his options more promising, and neither do the rules! Its pretty simple. If you wanna do that, you’re ineligible to play HS baseball anymore.

Contrary to popular belief, HS baseball is no more the minor leagues for the minor leagues, any more than college baseball is. Its important to keep professional things out of the amateur as much as possible because amateur sports, no matter what the level, involve a lot of people putting in a lot of time and effort for something other than signing a pro contract.

As I said, there’s no problem with a player giving up his right to be an amateur to try his luck as a pro. But to try to get the best of both worlds at the same time is BS.

As for other players who have cheated and gotten away with it, as far as I’m concerned, they’re scum who risk their teammates, and use them as dirt to grind beneath their feet so they can walk a smooth path to their own selfish glory.

Scum? Come on stats thats taking it a little too far don't you think? We are talking about 17 18 year kids. And it is possible that some kids have no idea its against the rules? Calling hs players scum is over the line.

quote:

As for other players who have cheated and gotten away with it, as far as I’m concerned, they’re scum who risk their teammates, and use them as dirt to grind beneath their feet so they can walk a smooth path to their own selfish glory

in what way would you consider them cheating? they may have broken the rule,but they weren't any better for it. how would attending a tryout give them an edge over any other hs player?

a bs rule with bs enforcement in my opinion. no different than a tryout for a travel team.

A member of the competitive math team at a school goes to an accounting firm to interview for a possible job.
Is he barred then from competing with the math team?
Why is this any different???

quote:

Originally posted by getagoodpitchtohit:
A member of the competitive math team at a school goes to an accounting firm to interview for a possible job.
Is he barred then from competing with the math team?
Why is this any different???

This analogy doesn't hold up. If there were professional competitive math teams, that would be a more suitable analogy. Yours is akin to a HS baseball player seeking a job at a professional club as a batboy or entry-level office job, both of which are allowed.

quote:

Why is this any different???

Because the CIF says it's against the rules. Nobody forces a kid to play in the league..


We had an incident a few years ago where we had a football player ruled ineligible after he broke a similar rule. This kid participated in the Punt, Pass, and Kick competition as a high school freshman. By IHSA rule, he was ruled ineligible and had to sit the rest of the season.

Now he's a kicker in the Mountain West Conference..

The rule is ridiculous and has no positive effect for any coach, player, district, etc. involved.

It does not make any sense to penalize a player that has pro aspirations...for absolutely no identifable reason, none with any justification anyway...

It is as silly as shutting down lemonade stands, government run amuck.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
Scum? Come on stats thats taking it a little too far don't you think? We are talking about 17 18 year kids. And it is possible that some kids have no idea its against the rules? Calling hs players scum is over the line.

OK. If you think cheating is ok, that’s up to you. Me, when I see someone knowingly break the rules, s/he’s a cheat, and I have no use for them.

Now keep in mind, I don’t blame the kids who were ignorant for anything! There are adults at work in these things who have the ultimate responsibility. But the ones who knew exactly what they were doing but did it anyway, will always be scum to me.

quote:

Originally posted by 20dad:
in what way would you consider them cheating? they may have broken the rule,but they weren't any better for it. how would attending a tryout give them an edge over any other hs player?

a bs rule with bs enforcement in my opinion. no different than a tryout for a travel team.

To me, cheating doesn’t mean anyone is better off for it. Its that they tried to be that makes it cheating.

You have your standards and I have mine. The rules are there for a purpose, and to me its just that simple. If the rules are no good and don’t fulfill their purpose, by all means get rid of them!

BTW, there are states where HS players aren’t allowed to play or even try out with any teams other than their HS team, or they are declared ineligible.

Read my post again Stats. Where in that post did I say cheating was OK? Read it again. Your a grown man, right? And your on here calling someone else's son "scum." And you know for a fact that these players knowingly broke the rules? And even if they did they might still be great young men who simply make a bad decision or a bad mistake. To call HS kids scum is over the line.

Those that are so quick to call names and judge others cause me concern. These people will have to answer for what they did. Isn't that enough?

It would be nice if at these tryouts those in charge state, "Has everyone here checked to make sure this tryout does not affect your high school eligibility?" It's not their responsibility. But it wouldn't hurt.

I think it's a stupid rule. But it is a rule. I may be wrong, but I believe back when dinosaurs ruled te earth I had to get signatures my from high school and Legion coaches before attending MLB tryout camps. We would attend before senior year.

quote:

You have your standards and I have mine!

i just don't like to paint with such a broad drush.
there often comes a time in a parents life that their child breaks a rule or two. i certainly hope there isn't a grown man standing there calling him/her names.

just my take on life.your entitled to yours as well.

I was just reading the rules in our state which pertain to this very topic. It couldn't be clearer. That being said, people sometimes make mistakes. Doesn't make them scum, makes them wrong. And they should accept the consequences.

I strongly advise the parents of players to get a working knowledge of the rules which can impact your kid's ability to compete in high school or beyond.

.

"Just my take on life. Your entitled to yours as well."

Nuthin's set in concrete, isn't that right 20dad?



.

quote:

Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
.

"Just my take on life. Your entitled to yours as well."

Nuthin's set in concrete, isn't that right 20dad?



.

Jimmy disagrees.

quote:

Originally posted by twotex:
I was just reading the rules in our state which pertain to this very topic. It couldn't be clearer. That being said, people sometimes make mistakes. Doesn't make them scum, makes them wrong. And they should accept the consequences.

I strongly advise the parents of players to get a working knowledge of the rules which can impact your kid's ability to compete in high school or beyond.

It doesn't help scout-coach relations, which are tenuous at times.